The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 9 months ago

Your BDR/SDR Teams: Outsource or Enhance?


When you take an honest look at your business and realize that you utterly lack the expertise to build and support a BDR/SDR team, what then?

Here’s a little guide for what to expect when you outsource sales (versus why you might consider building in-house anyway).

In this episode, I interview Peter Lipton, Director, Global Head of Sales - Technology & Alliances at JDX Consulting, about the differences between outsourcing and enhancing a BDR/SDR team.

Join us as we discuss:

- The reasoning behind outsourcing the sales function

- What expertise is needed to outsource successfully

- The decision to bring sales back in house

- The major challenges of process and internal trust

- Why it’s so hard to hire good BDRs

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

- How to Own the World by Andrew Craig

- The Qualified Sales Leader by John McMahon

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website.

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast. This podcast is brought to you by outreach, the leading sales engagement platform, and they just launched outreach on outreach, the place to learn how outreach well does outreach? Learn how the team follows up with every lead in record time after virtual events and turns them into revenue. You can also see how outreach runs account based plays, manages reps and so much more using their own sales engagement platform. Everything is backed by data pulled from outreach processes and customer base. When you're done, you'll be able to do it as good as they do. Had to outreach Doo on outreach to see what they have going on. Now let's get into today's episode. Hello all, welcome to the sales engagement podcast. You have your host here, Caitlin Kelly, senior manager of sales development for outreach in the Amida region, also co founder of SCRS anonymous, and for today's episode, I am so excited for us to actually be digging in the differences between outsourcing, your BEDR and scers teams, to inhou seeing your BEDR and scur team, and for our guests today. There's no one better to touch based on this subject. Then he lifton, who is the head of global sales over at DADX control team. He I'm going to toss over. Ready to introduce yourself? Tell us a little bit about what you do over at Dadx in your career. Yeah, thanks, Kevin, great to be here. So, Oh, jdx, I look after. We've set far O business into different domains and I look after several of them. So currently they include payments as a constant seen domain across the organization alliances, technical alliances, partners are going to market surrounding technology and surrounding those partners. And finally, the different intelligence world, which looks at contracts, analyzing contracts, not trying to replace legal teams but trying to empower them to do their job more efficiently, leveraging ai machine learning, the buzzwords of the decade, I'm sure. Prior to JDX, I've got a long history of startups, I suppose, and not only getting involved with them but obviously investing as well. So Co founder of a small company called Volt Me Club, which is looking at addressing the challenge surrounding electric vehicle charging points across the UK. Structure They lack. How do you fix that? We levery shepherds peer model, just like Airbnb, but for charges. So that's getting off the grounds and it will be on crowdfunding students, so general public can get involved in that and it's going to be very much not not a complete not a profit, but it's to give back, it's not to to exploit. Amazing. That's a great initiative there. So kind of when you think about your the two different teams that you oversee. When we were previously talking, we had talked about how when you go traditionally went into the video function, you were outsourcing this function. And especially from my...

...lens where you know, I'm me in it a sales development or so super passionate about this. I would love to kind of understand, and you know, the reason behind outsourcing. So this is definitely a trend that a lot of companies are leaning forward. They see the productivity that a bed are team can really drive. So what was kind of the reason behind out for the senior year team in the beginning? Yeah, so the Jendix to consulting house and the reason we have sourced is very much of the reason people look to use us as well. So very similar reasons. It is we lack the internal expertise. We lack the in house solutions that will helps do a better job in this in this field ands area, and by that I mean we don't we didn't have the ability to measure or track, track opens, track engagement, follow, follow the chain as as new subject subject lines are issued, which even basically be testing from that reguard. So we recognized our bit force and we recommize the journey we have to take internally to get to a point where we could be successful and because of that, it was going to take too long and we lose out a huge chunk of the market in the meantime. So let's look at the market, let's look at how we can leverage and our source medio our team to capitalize on a medium market opportunity and that their team is completely dedicated. It's completely focused to what we didn't have time, experience and expertise to do in house. Cost Fun enough is it was never the remain reason for it. It was an element and it's something that in any business, just the tion, you have to look at. But insourcing, outsourcing or building in house for self sourcing. It's a bit like the old journeys to the cloud. You probably not going to say money, but it does give you the buility to scale. So we recognize the does scale. Was was the drive there? Yeah, definitely. If you don't have the time to build it internally, makes sense to leverage that you're the expertise within the industry to help you reach those the targets that you're looking to achieve within great kind of outsourcing. What were some of the challenges your team facebould you say with this it's probably something we should have delved into it a little bit before going down the our sorcing model. But I'd say the same challenge as you have, the same process you have to go through the house when you're building a DR and Stur team. You still have to go through on your our source. You still need to look at your target market, you still need to look at your ideal customer profile. You build out the right questioning, the leading the witness question to get to the bottom of what what you're trying to deliver, to the method of value trying to deliver as well. And we didn't have it. Fundamentally, we had the the knowledge in pockets and stylos across the business with our sames and our sales, sales reps, but we didn't have it documented package ready to go for the get set up takes lenity. So knowledge gap was huge. was huge. It was a huge change to ever come to regular touch points, regular meetings, which was kind of reason we wanted to shift outside anyways, because it didn't have the time. All the student's consuming a lot of our time to empower to build a knowledge and to make sure they be M Sim's in the... the solutions that were presents into market place. So that was it was unforeseen but really probably should have been for seen so that that would definitely challenge the the other areas that we knew was we're going to take time, but time to value is it's the reason really you have a vida team or sst our team is to create valley, Great Remedy Organization. Time to value is one pot one part of justification business ufcation that we've lived in the house and part of justication of Elip. The External Agency presented to it and it didn't quite correlate because of that learning curve. What we're selling is quite complex solutions to the marketplace, to financial services, and that up skill time meant the Times of value is elongated, which I don't think. I don't think was widely accepted outside the sales organization. You multiple different stakeholders who fund this sort of thing and they're going, where the value? Why we're not seeing results yet. So couple of months in those questions get asked. Realistically, you need to have much long, longer a period of time going out on something like this. Yeah, as I see that totally makes sense. When you handed thing about it from Lega are in science perspective, was almost when Authorty. You can get the science part of it, which is the productivity, the skill sets on the outbounding, but you need a mirror that oreging. That's still quite a lot of your time, which was kind of where that gap was that you were hoping the same one a hundred percent. Yeah, so as part of any sales sales team you need to have continuous development, continues coaching, learning, learning from mistakes, measuring in and driving forward. So we lapsed that. We were totally rely on on the the ex agencies do that and without the knowledge base and the S A dress expertise that we have in house surrounding what we're trying to present themselves to our customers. There was just a gap. There was it wasn't a case. If it was, it was a gap and we didn't have that continuous feedback loop or even the time to have that continuous feed value to dedicate to them. I suppose it was. It was a thought process or you can, you can manage this, you can deal with it. Not a not an acceptance of business that actually we're going to have to put a huge out of time, energy and resources this as well, for both sites, on a continuous basis. So we was a disconnect. There was a disconnect between that feedback loop and Learning, coaching development. What's gone right, what's going wrong? Let's get access to the phone logs, to the conversations have taken place and say what work well, what didn't work well. So all those bits and pieces we just didn't have to hand and equally didn't have time to even if we did have it, wouldn't have the time. Just why we have sourced. Great, yeah, I know that that means a lot of sense. They're kind of and definitely the way that you've explain it as well. So some of the challenges that you'd pieces all didn't have the time to really invest into it a lookouts see. Why did you greet that feedback loop, which then actually created a disconnect. It was difficult to actually evolve the process over time to make sure that you had subject better experts to drive on value for gas. Yeah, absolutely, and the target market, ideal customer profile, pensity to..., all those things that we look for when we're actively selling as a sales organization. We didn't have access to or a fluid environment where we could get access to it and coaching develop. So we whilst we did see results, they weren't probably in line with what we were hoping for expecting. Yeah, so kind of digging into those results because, you know, it seems like you guys did see the benefits of a video team and going outbound. So what we're something some of the results that you were able to see in Tennessee the value in this screen, in this functionable medias. So I think everyone, everyone I know in the industry, knows the value of a business flowing team and pipe generation. It's tends who you speak to, but it's either part of an easy process pg pipe generation, part of the generation, is absolutely critical to it. You lose it, you lose POLICTI revenue, you lose the partical forecasting that you can create a state of remus stream for your organization. Business Development Rex help feed that funnel and, depending how they're split into different creation different leads, whether it's outbound or manage the inbount process is suppose us of debate the organization where it sits, whether it's marketing or sales, but stick cop topic for a different time. The the results we saw were positive as and we were seeing meetings, we were seeing interest, but I think perhaps the qualification was equally lacking. It was because of the time to value the urgency of the organization to create meetings, not necessarily fully qualified meetings. There's a again, it's like disconnects. It was here at one thou fifteen meetings. Let's go out and let's see the correportunities from them, using your Sames, using yours director experts and your sales, Sales Organization for the qualification, which is great, but not the right target zone and not the right individuals, cross organization with no real no real pain identified. So this is it. This isn't across the board. There were some good, good opportunities in there. So it's a question mark. On. Would about what our inhouse team have spent more time analyzing, focusing, getting the right opportunities and only progressing to the stage is when ex criteries been here versus here. are leads to be thrown over or meetings to be thrown over based on targets that have been set. Yeah, so I think there's something to be said about having visibility into those numbers, being able to identify, you know, how far are they making in the sales cycle? Where are they falling out of the sales cycle? What is the timing? What are they in needs with? Having that visibility into that is allows you to kind of really streetline. You're ICTAM with with that. You know, building out and inhouse bed our team is quite a big job in so when you started, when you deciding, know what's bring this in house. I feel like we have, you know, the semes here that can do this, drive involve over time. What was what we're three like that of the first things that you did really navigate this process? Yeah, good question. There are multiple things that happened. The Nice thing was the half is something was already done with. Everyone recognized the need for the demand generation, for pipeline generation,...

...for increasing and capitalizing on the opportunity to the marketplace. We're growing at effectively hypercro hyper growth rate for bookings in the market, which is fantastic when it comes to consulting, and technology being a huge driver for that, the shift to technology. So half of something was done. We knew we needed it. Next question is, how do we get the right structure of process in in place in house to actually deliver on it? And Yeah, we've got a great chief Commashal officer in our organization WHO's have to spend time and time, energy and Resources on getting the right structure and the basics in place to ensure values delivers. But we lack those basics and structure that we could then build a team on the back off. So before we kild hire, we needed to assess where, assess the situation tellier is to where we could target them. So take taking a sort of step back. We had no, no ability to monitor website traffic and even when we did, there was a challenge of can we can we trust the data? People moved to work from home and therefore Ip addresses change and they weren't necessarily saying JP organ for example. It just say random I peer dressed. So a lot of a lot of your basis we did have wasn't wasn't as relevant anymore or wasn't as trustworthy anymore. So we couldn't rely on it. So we had to look at where we putting media focus and we can kind of such an some of the other challenges we had in that process. But it was where can we start? And it was starting existing accounts. We start an existing accounts. We can build those up. So let's look at the accounts where we have a smaller subset of the current market spent were compared to our competition, and where we think we could capitalize, where we believe we have the right level of relationships and organizations to get the right referrals and basically created inside sales organization there to help to help generate the interest, the same knowledge to have multiple media as sturs on those calls to learn the conversations that we're having and understand value that the sceneryxx cross organizations are deriving from what they're doing that. So it was getting the conversations, getting on the phone of what the good looks like. Equally, building out a case studies, building that use cases, building out tipe of Sodas, that whole journey that we went through early doors, refining it in house, because we could have that feedback loop, we could have the conversations and we could develop it. So yeah, it was it was a it was a long slog is, is how I describe it. And what it wasn't just it wasn't just starving. There's yeah, it was a whole journey. It was creation of a go to market strategy for a before be a team, and for sales team, as a lot of the sales sales reps have got a huge amount of there that pipeline from referrals, from businesses knowing what we do, asking for our help as well. So shifting that balance towards creation of value going to market with it. Mentality change requires equally. Do do the reps feel comfortable with the accounts they have? Sharing that account with a video out? There's a fear of relinkish in control...

...and are you going to cause the wrong person say something at offends as I say that, having not gone through before, building a trust to build our apport was equally important. So getting everyone on board was one of the biggest challenges. Yeah, I think. I think that's that's something too. When you're implementing change anywhere, it's so people are as it tint and they're going to be resistant because they're used to it happening one way. We started to implement this and you in introduce the vide or function and GDX was it. We're there. Sameans that people are closers that wanted to make the switch over and we're passionate about the hunting aspect. Or did you? Did we look to bring people in and kind of train from the ground that? Yes, we've got an internal recruitment first policy. Always have, and that's not just in sales organization as do you want to move from an a to media or seme to Beda? Is? We have a huge delivery on hundreds of people out in the market currently delivering our sort of our solutions, our expertise to our customers. So we offer it out on a job portal. Hiring criteri remains the same. We're not going to change that just for the sake of saying with hide intern the versus externally operated. Internal use externally. It's got to be the right, right candidate for the right role. Yeah, but yeah, we absolutely offered in the House and one. One Chap moved across from a different team. He had huge amount of drive, desire, heart, the right characteristics. More to that, but as absolutely it was on the table. Equally, one of the things that we had to make sure to perhaps make sure we we hired against to ensure success, as you really got a couple of things that you control and sales team you've got productivity and you've got the people, and to get the productivity high enough to show the value and show the return investment that will be making in the Dr Tmst our team. Then we had to ensure we hire a reps, a class reps. you know what they do. Can hit the ground running, who have that, as I say, the drive, character, coachability they have, the persistence they and needs they have to have. Supposed the ICC's probably standard across the across the initition now for hiring and intelligence, coachability, character, credibility, experience, equally as the same partners are etc. So can they adapt, can they learn? Can they get their teeth into it? Are they not going to be drained at the end of the week from going through a rebetive process perhaps not seen results? So that sales DNA. That's vended within them. But Challenge, very much challenge. A good bedrs are in high demand. So again our policies hiring grants first. So we will look for talent and grow talent. So the experience, peace or track record piece lacked. Those that we did find, yet password susable. So looking at grants first is absolutely something looked at to build and develop on the culture and they would be a natural cultural of a natural cultural fits within the organization. Yeah, there's something, definitely something to you said about kind of hypotential, lower experience and then a kind of Britain determination, the kind of figure out the wall. They're all also the flux, the ability to with change. Essentially, they kind of are look how that yeah, basically that's whetting.

It sounds like you guys are able to hit everyone by into the process, since you're able to kind of develop from from within house for that. Yeah, obviously not not without, no, without challenges, but yeah, I mean the biggest, I suppose biggest hiring challenge we found was finding those with facial service experience, especially when you look at graduates or those that wants to be in fancy services, which is I'll mean, yeah, majority, or whether you comes from fancy service institutions. So talking the right language and not getting demoted to the person. You sound like a Romanization. Yes, we can coach to degree, but to have the desire to work in that field was equally bit of a challenger. An interesting change I didn't think would exist. Yeah, definitely. Earlier on you'd mentioned a little bit around. You know, the video is really working intend and with the closers. Can you kind of talk us through a couple of boys that you were able to help build that relationship? I know that a lot of other fielders kind of go through the same structure and process. So what are some what are a couple ways that have worked for DDX and certainly involving process. So I'm not going to pretend that we've got it understand right. So some a's work better with DRS than others. Some of them are open to sharing diary sharing, contact sharing, the champions, the coach and organizations to get guides, get referils to help them and equally give a a much better coaching FEEDBA that group. So we don't currently have a B RSDL manager. It is very much a line to reps and part of a sales organizations managed is a single unit. So it has to be a good feedback group. That has to be a good learning, coaching development structure for the reps to to get it to speed into ensure they stay relevant in the market place. Is what they're talking about. So I thought, yeah, I'm not going to tend. We've got to right. We've got some reps that work better than others and we've got some videos that are most except successful than others. So yeah, it's Yeahs for the kind of the way you go structure is it? Is it like an a seer is assigned to in AE, or is it a part approach? Have you guys kind of gone about it? For the Medias? Yeah, Y, essence, one too one or wants to alignment for for Reps. so new business we have one to one. I think there's incessity for it. So we want to penetrate the market, wants to get a new new logos on the books. That needs to be dedication to it, whereas in strategic councilor global accounts we have existing concepts, we have existing champions, I supposed, and references that we can call on any given time. So it's an easy conversation to have. So the sort of more stretch structure across that. In essence, pod reality is team. So Global Account Strategy, counts, emerging accounts, new business accounts. Yeah, it's line to teams rather than individuals. That, Florica, amazing. So you know, keep thank you so much for taring your insights. Today we talks a little bit about transition from outsourcing your video teams bringing it in house. Some of the...

...challenges are able to overcome along the way. You had to recommend one book that's had a major impact on your professional development that you wanted to share with our listeners. But with that book be I think? I think one books probably a bit challenging. So I've not read a single book that is completely transformed the way up right up where I work. What I would say is by Spud into two, which is the way I operate, or manager, team versus personal life, probably actually three in that but financial, personal professional, personal level, financial level. And there's a book that nobody's going to want to read, but it's called how to own the world and it is taking controlly finances and ensuring basically longevity and a strong, a lovely retirement. I suppose it's nicest way of putting it. But what what book worth? The Reis, if the fundamentals is compound interest. But there's a lot more too than that. From a sales professional developed perspective. Is a great book called the qualified sales leader by John Buckman, who's at mayhem, who's at Ongo DB at the minute, belief group, Ecrro, and he outlines of fundamentals. So he takes you through a lovely journey of a company he works with, advised with years, the years ago and the QBR process and changing to a common common language, common methodologies, getting everyone on board a lot of the fundamentals that are required for, I suppose, the sales to your bed R team right through to a's enclosing using medical medpickers. The methodlogies evolved. He goes into the basics of that. Nice it is written in a very, very easy to digest way as a lovely story rather than the likes of the old spin selling books, which were more of a get your pind of Pencil, I'll stop making no, you stop building, building a maps as part of the process. Yeah, I'd recommend that qualified sales later. All right, so two bucks qualified sales leader and how to own the world. Love it. Thank you so much, Pete. If anyone wants to reach ound connect to you to talk about developing a videor team or outsourcee. Where's the best place for the Brito links in? It is something personal outside of work, then Pete, it's a gmacom. Feel free to in touch. All right, amazing. Have a great day everyone. Thank you, just getting by. This was another episode of the sales engagement podcast. To help this get in front of more eyes and ears, please leave us a shining five star review. Join US at sales engagementcom for new episodes. Resources in the book on sales engagement to get the most out of your sales engagement strategy, make sure to check out outreach, that I oh, the leading sales engagement platform. See you on the next episode.

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