The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

Why Your Emails Aren’t Working w/ Patricia McLaren


Your emails aren’t working.

How much time and effort have you spent trying to craft what you thought was the perfect email campaign? You edit and re-edit, and finally, you are ready to put it out into the world, and you hit “send.”

And nothing happens.

Is your company that uninteresting? Not at all. Odds are, you’re just going about your email all wrong. And it’s not your fault, it’s probably just that nobody has ever taught you how to write emails well. After all, how many terribly written emails do you get every day? And what do you do with those emails?

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast. This podcast is brought to you by outreach dot ioh, the leading sales engagement platform helping companies, sellers and customer success engaged with buyers and customers in the modern sales era. Check out sales engagementcom for new episodes resources in the book on sales engagement coming soon. Now let's get into today's episode. Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the sales engagement podcast. I'm your host, Jovi Nolo, senior content managing editor at outreach, and today we are joined by Patricia McLaren, an old friend and old CO worker and a new cofounder and head of customer operations for a company called copy shop. You're going to be hearing a lot about them. They're working with us, they're going to be probably working with you soon. And she's going to be talking about email messaging, what people are missing. Why? Just a few sentences strung together that sound okay, those aren't going to close deals and she's going to go into a framework and some advice that will help you book more meetings, close more deals at overall, just be a better communicator. But I don't want to spoil the fun. I'm going toss it on over to Patricia, who can introduce herself tell us more about what she's doing at copy shop, her journey to starting this business, all the fun stuff production. Nice seeing you again. Thanks for being on the show is great. Thanks for having me, Joe. Yeah, that was a good intro. I'm Patricia, new cofounder of copy shop, and what we do essentially is help your customers with their content strategy. You're have an awesome product. You know your customers absolutely love it. It's such a powerful tool, but a lot of times they're asking for help with the actual content. You know, they can run a campaign, but if they're not seeing the results that they're looking for, typically they can kind of up their game in terms of content. So we help your customers right really compelling content that drives more customer conversations. And we also don't just leave it at that.

You know a lot of copywriters will give you the campaign and kind of leave it up to you to do the rest, or leave it up to your bbr team to do the rest, and we want to make sure that you're actually getting the results that you're looking for with this campaign. So we help you optimize every month, we look at an ad testing strategy, things that we can tweak here and they're based on the performance data of that campaign. So we're constantly looking to improve it month over month, and it's a needed service, right, because people are coming to you. You probably looking at their campaigns or messaging and being like, Oh, you shouldn't have waited so long, right. So why are People's messaging not working? Like, what's the issue? What do you see so well? There's a couple of different reasons, I think. You know, people tend to copy what's already out there, for one and what works for you Joe might not work for me, or what works in one in the story might not translate well into a different industry. So it constantly has to change. It constantly has to speak to the right persona and the individual. But I think there's just a lot of bad templates out there. You know, like we're getting the same type of email all the time. How many different cold emails are flooding our inboxes? You know, it's like here's this one specific line. We got a couple bullet points and then a call to action and they're pretty weak. So you know, the secret to that is finding an emotional tie the the response has to make sense to the individual and the emotion has to be behind what you're you know what, ultimately the value that you're providing. So there's a couple different ways to do that and copy shop specifically has a five step framework that we kind of run through to create our content for all of our customers. And, you know, the first piece is about the industry itself. So number one we always have to kind of know, be the experts in the industry. We have to understand the space because we're writing campaigns for,... know, tons of different industries across this type, you know, across environments, whether it's construction or telecom, airlines, media, whatever it might be. So we have to understand the space, bully. So we do a lot of market research up front. You know, what are the trends? How what has changed in the industry? You know, are there rules and regulations that have kind of a affected how people operate in that space as technology kind of change the landscape? So we understand kind of the trends of that industry and the different challenges within that industry. I think a lot of people have that, you know, piece of the writing down. They understand their third space. They understand the space that their customers operated. But I would hope so. I mean here a BEDR SDR and you're sending a hundred emails a day. You better be doing some level of research, right, for sure? Yeah, and I think that's usually the base layer. That's the foundation, like what are the industry challenges and how do we solve them? The second layer, though, you've got to go a little deeper than that. The second layer is about the persona itself. And this is where it gets interesting, because you know, people look at a linkedin profile and they see a title like head of sales or head of customer success. But what is that title actually mean? You know what role and responsibility is. Yeah, but how does your message change based on their role? So we do a lot of research into the personas themselves and the psychology behind that role. So what kind of person is in that Customer Success Role? What type of skills do they have to ultimately be successful? What emotions are they feeling throughout the day? Right, we have we're human. We experience a lot of different emotions, but what is the one emotion that we can focus on in this campaign and what types of phrases, exact ample stories, anything that we can come up with that will resonate with that emotion is what we're going to focus our messaging around. And I think, and we mentioned we talked...

...about this in a previous conversation, but most messaging out there with your bullet points in a couple stats, pretty sterile, right. You know, it's not causing the reader to feel anything. And I think you have an interesting view on why emotion is so important. Yeah, definitely, emotion drives decisionmaking. You know, emotion is the the main thing that's going to trigger somebody to have a response. So emotion drives that initial decision and the information is then going to help reinforce that decision you just made. And in an email, for example, we have such a small amount of space and time to trigger that emotion. So we don't want to Jampack it with information. We're just trying to trigger that that emotion off the bat and then later we can reinforce it with the information. So that's the kind of secret sauce we work with here at copy shop is coming up with that psychographic personality profile like. What does that actual individual look like? You know, what is their challenge today. What do they sound like complaining about it? Who are they complaining to? What words are they using? You know, how can we match that tone? How can we match, you know, that emotion and drive it home to kind of get that that light bulb or that Aha moment, especially in four different lines? So we've got picture you and other copy shop employees like sitting in a dark room and kind of having like thought experiments, like, all right, I'm in head of scales, roll now, feelings stressed, and then you get like you role play a little bit. That's how I'm picturing it. Is that how it goes? Oh, we totally do. Yeah, I don't know about the dark room, but we're definitely like they're kind of fun strategy sessions because, you know, there is some part that's kind of like a stereotype behind it, like all right, this is a CEO or this is a head of sales. Okay, what is their day look like? You know, it's kind of like a fun role play session. You know, for example, we just one of our clients cells into the healthcare industry and we were trying to come up with an example of something like, okay, what's something in healthcare. That would make sense... them that, you know, spreads were like, all right, you know colds or jerves. How can we relate that to something and put that in our writing? You know? So we try to make it fun and, yeah, it's it keeps it really fun and exciting because we're dealing with so many different personas across so many industries and but that's typically how we start to see some of these conversate, quality conversations, get started. Is that emotional piece? Right? So you've done you do the deep dive, you do you research, you got a really good look at the persona and you build out this kind of image or description of this person in the emotions are feeling. What's next? What's the next piece? YEA, so we come up with a initial draft of the campaign that we're going to launch, but before we launch it, we have an expert panel and what we do is kind of leverage our network and we have about five to ten leaders in each type of persona and we run our messaging by that person because we we ultimately want to you know, is this something that they'd respond to? Is this actually something that makes sense, that we miss the mark at all and in our you know, tone or messaging. Did that first line grab you? Did it hit the right emotion? So we want to make sure that our messaging makes sense to the person we're reaching out to, and the best way to do that is to hear feedback from horse and milk. So we're leveraging that expert panel. We're getting the feedback we need from that exact persona and then we'll go ahead and launch that campaign. And then the final step is is again just testing. You can't really know what works a hundred percent. Things change quartered by quarter. Are spaces are changing constantly, the sales process is changing constantly, so our messaging has to keep up and we're constantly testing subject lines or, you know, timing of the steps, different call to action, different verbs that we could use, the tone of the emails, all sorts of different things that were testing on a monthly basis to really make sure that our customers are getting those quality conversations and they're improving month over month.

I'm curious. I think that's fantastic all of all of it. It's great. One thing that really stands out is this is extremely time consuming. I mean, and I think obviously that's why you have a business right, because people like, damn, this is tough, let's just have someone else do it right and obviously do it better. But I'm wondering how how you got here, like what what was the the issues that you saw in previous jobs or or what were the problems that you were seeing that drove you and your cofounders to create this yeah, I mean it is really time consuming. A lot of people either give this to their own sales seem to do themselves and it goes stale because they don't constantly evolve their writing, or marketing tends to do it right. We see a lot of marketing people right. No more markets are terrible, the worse. So we see that's happen a lot. It's like it's not its own responsibility, just kind of gets thrown on a something that either the sales person has to and marketing person has to do, and there's a lot that should go behind it, like a lot of the research, a lot of that critical thinking and a lot of the testing. Takes time. So you know how we got here? Back back in data ice, back in the day when we were old colleagues, we kind of had to build this process from scratch. And we didn't even realize that this type of thing was why we were so successful, you know, being so relevant, using tone and certain customization that resonates with our buyers. Like we didn't even realize what we were doing, but we were doing tons and tons of testing to get there. So that was really probably the first time we saw, okay, we have something here. You know, this is actually really working, and at scale. Ball. I had taken a year last year to sell all my stuff and go travel the world, and so...

...while doing that I was doing a lot of writing. I wrote for probably over fifty different types of customers. I were email campaigns and this kind of thing really started to come up. It's like how do we you know, what what process do we do behind this? Like how are we going to write something that resonates with someone in construction versus somebody in sales? So this framework was kind of born and we realize how important this really was. And we had been Alpha users of outreach. I mean we've been working with you guys since it was just the founding team, and so we're super familiar with the products, we are super close with your team and this has been something that came up in conversation and Manny said, you know, our customers are looking for this, they're asking us for the support in content and it's just not something that we built out eternally. So that's kind of how this partnership was born and we're able to kind of create this framework that that your customers are going to benefit from. And while I love the outreach plug, thank you. I mean you don't have to be you don't have to be an outreach user to benefit from having a team creating this like high impact copy that just skyrockets. Are Say else? Yeah, for sure it helps to use the platform, especially because we're running test, baby test, within the platform. We do all the set up an implementation for you guys. So if you write a campaign, will go in and actually set it all up so your here sales team doesn't have to spend the time doing that. But if you're not using it, as long as there's some you know, if you're using some automation tool that that runs reporting and we can kind of help improve those results over time, then we're will definitely here to help create some more content for you guys. Awesome note. Final question. If our listeners have just zoned out, haven't heard a word, but they know. Like, I thought this episode was about email messaging, right. What is one tip you could give our listeners that they can use today? They would improve their their email copy. So one tip to improve your email copy. Stop talking...

...about yourself. Everybody is talking about you. Know, me, me, me, here's what I think you could improve or here's what we can do to solve your challenge. And I think the biggest thing you can do right now is look at your copy and try and remove any eye and try and remove any we are even try and remove your company name and just rewrite your email with your customer in mind. You, you, you, here's you know. Here's what you could do and you'll see a lot more engagement with something like that. Boom, mic drop right there. That's great and that's super simple. The someone can do it right like you. Just go in, examine what you're sending, look at your team's copy, going to outreach, going any other product that they may be using and just be like, look at all of these eyes, look at all of these weeds, we got to do something about it. So that's fantastic. Patricia, people wanted to get a hold of you ask you more questions or learn more about copy shop. How can I do that? Sure? So I'm always active on Linkedin. You can find me there. You can go to our website, copy shop DOTCO, and we'll be at it unleash. So if you guys are at the conference, I'd love to meet in person. I am super excited to share my other passion with you guys, which is Yoga, and I'll be teaching sunrise yoga sessions there on Monday and Tuesday, so we can come to those with me. Well. This episode will probably are after and lash, so I hope you enjoyed the yoga sessions with copy shop and Patricia Adam Lash. Thanks for coming, guys. Who's nice me to you there on Linkedin, but did you? Thank you so much for joining us today and I want to thank our listeners once again for tuning in to the sales engagement podcast and we'll see you next time. This was another episode of the sales engagement podcast. Join US at sales engagementcom for new episodes, resources and the book on sales engagement coming soon. To get the most out of your sales engagement strategy, make sure to check out outreach die Oh, the leading sales engagement platform. See you on the next episode.

In-Stream Audio Search


Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (331)