The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

Why SDRs Play a Bigger Role Than You Think w/ Nick Psaros

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

When thinking about a SDRs, most don’t give them the credit that they deserve. Typically seen as a temporary stop in a career progression, Nick Psaros, Director of Sales with Egnyte, joins us to chat about the effective game plan that has allowed his SDRs to be successful while providing much needed recognition in the company.

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast,this podcast is brought to you by outreach at io the leading salesengagement platform, helping companies, sellers and customer success engagedwith fuirs and customers in the modern sales era, check out salesengagementcom for new episodes, resources in the book on salesengagement coming soon. Now, let's get into today's episode. Everyone welcome to the sales engage ofpodcast on more Constatbo VPS sales, an outreach I have nix sorrows on thepodcast today with me, hello, Nick E, going mark bigs for habbing me yeah, noproblem! Why don't you tell everybody a little bit about yourself yeah? So I'mNixaros, I am the director of sales development here at igniht with thecompany for going on three years and and counting awesome well, when we werechatting a little bit before the call Nick and when I was looking at yourlinked in. It became very apparent to me that at some point in your career,you chose that sales engagement and sales development that first part topof the funnel. Maybe the hardest part of sales. You've decided to specializein like tell me a little bit about why you made that choice and if there's astory, I'd love to hear about it. Yeah. No, that's a good question and you knowI've been at that a few times. So I'm happy to cover that. So you know Istarted way back in two thousand and five in a sales, I'm Gong Na call it asales role. It was actually probably an hinset a little bit of a pyramid schemewhich is funny, but it was a company that was hiringquote unquote, Hir to train new salespeople and what they did is. Theywould basically train the crap out of you, N being a fearless door to doorvis, a business salesperson you would go and we had a campaign that wasactually based on office supplies and back then you know I was just hungry toget into sales in general and I wanted to be. You know a future closer. Youknow- and I thought what a great way for me to kick start my career out ofcollege, and so I didn't know what I was getting myself into, but I couldtell you that it was a hundred percent commission and I did it for about ayear year and a half, and that in itself is quite a feat, because theturnover yo can imagine a that role was intense, but one thing that I did tocelebrate this role, that Ihad just gotten that I was excited about that. Ireally know erything about. I went out and stupidly dined my life away andbought a car. I go sweet, I'm an adult. Now I need adult problem so here I am driving around my new car inmy territory here in the bay area for that year year and a half- and I kidyou not ive- put seventy usand miles on the car in one year, yeah a year year and ahalf Yep, and you know that right there should tell you theamount of hustle you need to have in order to be successful in those separroles, and you know the only thing I kept me going was number one I was, Iwould say I wasn't the top guy, but I was definitely doing well enough tosupport myself, but it was such a grind and the hours were intense. I mean Iwould basically be meeting at our headquarters office. Hat, probably Idon't know five am and then you know you don't get a home home until, likemaybe nine or ten o'clock at night, so it was, it was insane. Andyou were tosuit and tie and you're carrying a bag literally all day long, and so as I'friting. This picture for you. You can see that I started to question whetheror not I needed to continue going down this pack and what else I could do andLibold I found myself and at the time you know, I think there was a you know.Monstercom was just kind of neww to the scene and cueer builder was belieding. Recruiting sites went on and found anSDR position with a company called...

...success factors, so I plied, and youknow, to be frank, I didn't really know what the role was. I didn't reallyunderstand all the the nuances of it, but the way it was right written up, Iwas like you know what I got a college degree of Gods, Selves Experience, I'mpretty sure. If I can do what I was just doing. I could definitely do thisand went in got the role, and here is where, for me, things got reallyinteresting, which was I found that I can make more money. I don't have toDRI early as much and I could build a career from this standpoint in atechbased organization, and I mean for me that was that was everything I wasinstantly hooked and I was fearless because I've gotten so much rejectionin person. In my previous role t there was nothing anybody was going to say tome over the phone that was going to deter me. So that's where my my seldevelopment career started and I moved up the rank I did receive. A couple ofpromotions ended up in a customer account management role and then lateron, I did a sales position where I owned the full sale cycle and and allof that, but you know I really did feel eventhough it was mediocre beginning at those positions. I got better because Iyou know understood how to use the resources around me, but I never had anSR working for me. I was my own SDR and that's where my strength was. I foundthat I was getting into deals where other count executives were struggling.They were just waiting for indown leads to come and FOM marketing to help themand all this other stuff- and I was just picking up the phone and getmyself my own pipe line, and so you know I started to realize. That's whereI'm that's, where I'm strong and that's where I'm really passionate, and Ieventually migrated back towards that and you ow never looks back since.That's that's an unbelievable story. I mean I know I love when I interviewsomebody that worked at southwestern and sold books in the summer door, tedoor or big cut co, knives in college or sold insurance. You know right outof college for somebody that think you kno made them go door to door everysingle day. There's like a a Grin N, a hustle that those people learn about.You know sales and lifes that, like you can build on that you know hat I meanif Youa learn that techniques easy right cell yeah and you know the thing aboutit is, I think every everybody who wants a career in sales shouldabsolutely for six months go. Do some door to your work. I mean that willgive you an amazing perspective on just what sales really is about right, howto relate to your prospect right how to help them understand that you care, Imean when you're standing in front of somebody they're going to react towhatever environment you create, and so you got to be able to understand howyou're being perceived- and you know, match the right energy to the rightperson understand quickly and here's a skill set that you know serves me well,but most people don't even think about which is there's a skill where you lookat somebody or you're talking to somebody or you're inare engaged withsomebody. Where do they fall on the persona scale right? Are They SuperAnalytical? Are they deep thinkers or are they people that just trust easilyand are eating up everything? You're saying I mean there's a range and themore you can understand that more quickly, then you know how to positionthe messaging and you know, share your agenda and help them understand theconflitative side of your efforts. Yeah. What about I love this idea of matchingenergy and like right now you lead a modern sales development team thatprobably all sits in the same sales office, they're, not going door to doorso they're, not having that human...

...interaction necessarily be the sameexact thing that what you used to do when you did dor the door. Tell me alittle bit about how you help them understand it. This matching of theenergy and h a modern sales and sales development team, yeah, know th tthat's a really good question. I think a lot of SR leaders, I think they justintinsically, know that's something you need to to help develop on your team,but it's hard to figure out how to do it. One of the things that I do, whichI think is a little bit unique, is that I run a SBR forecast call with my team,and you know I've actually at the moment, have my tein split in a halfvisit east coast presente in a west coast presence- and you know we dothose call separately, but what's interesting about this forecast is thatwe do a couple of things. The first is, I ask them to come to the table withcommits and best case, and you know there's that sounds easy, but thedefinitions there and helping folks in SDR roles to understand thosedefinitions, ond what I'm asking for it's. Actually, it kind of likesurprises me even to this day how everybody interprets that differently.So you know I look at that and I go okay. This is my job to help themunderstand that, especially if they're going to be sales folks down the roadclosing deal, this is absolutely a way of life from now on, so they might aswell learn how to do this from now. But the second thing which helps answer thequestion is that I also ask them to come prepared to that meeting with atleast one scenario they're currently working on, where their prospecting andthere's something they're trying to achieve for there as some challengethat theyre facing that they can't get over and as a group, we actually deepdiving into it, and I you know it's everybody on that color in thatmeetings, responsibility to actually contribute to the answer for that Sdr,and so sometimes you know we find different strategies that we all talkthrough. Sometimes we find different contacts that might be a better, moreadvantageous place to start from other times. Somebody in the group might findan article that links them to a current customer, and now we've got a differentlike a total different conversation starter- and you know the thing about,it is yeah. It's helping the person that brought the the opportunity o thetable to begin with, but it's also helping everybody else learn fromeverybody else. Right so becomes like this collaborative effort so to matchenergies. That's usually where I can start to get into. You know a little bit more around thepsychology of the prospect in Mark. If you, if you put yourself in my shoes, Imean look, I could write it down, you know and a document pack it off toeverybobody on Day want n o go here. Here's t a document the talks aboutpsychology, your prospect, but it's not going to carry you weiht at that pointin time. Right is when they're experiencing the challenge. That's whenthose answers carry weight because they want to start applying it, and I thinkit's it's impactful and by the way you know we don't just talk about it andthen we move on. You know the following week: When we have our next fodecast, Iaske them to update us with how went how did they apply it? You know, howdid it go and you'd be? I mean I maybe you would 't be surprised, but you knowI'm not it's funny whenever they can actually make that connection duringthat week they come back and they go. Oh, my God that was great. It workedthat guy was totally different. This time there was no objections. Heunderstood what I was saying and I got the meeting and everybody's happy yeah.We always talk about arrows in your quimver. You can only give someone anarow when they're ready to shoot it, and then you wuld just want to do that.Quimme, like maybe I have eight tricks. You know but Whatev, our regional vicepresidence has three or four more tricks that are different than Mone andthen the Guy Te next yea af, I seven or eight other tricks that he has and youno we're all learning together and put those arrows are in our quiver in themoment that we're ready to shoot that's when we really become great at what wedo, because we got different things...

...that we can think about different waysor approaching a situation. So I love that you guys do that on thisforecasting. Call I'd love to hear about that. Tho! That's a an odd thing,a unique thing! I don't hear a lot of people talking about doing forcastingcalls with their SDRs. Can you tell me about the structure that and how itworks? Yeah? So you know it all started when Iwas an SR, because I started to recognize from my teammates. You knowthere was. There was sort of a lowest common denominator across all thepeople. I was workingize if they were good at their jobs. They all wanted thesame thing, which is you know, some sort of upward mobility in their currepath right, so, whether that meant, you know the next ter ofsr ship or whetherthat meant getting promoted out something else. If you weren't good atyour job well, then you were looking for another job and typically thosesolks just went, became srs again and just hit the resit button somewhereelse. So I started to notice this and I started to think through well what isit about being an FDR that makes people treat it like a prerequisite like I'mjust doing this until the next thing and that started to drive me crazy,especially when I became a leader, because I started to see that you know.Of course, retension is something all waiters in SRS. You know, and teams AVo have to deal with. They have to figure out how to create enoughlongemity of their teammates to Ow, effectively build the bibeline right,but also not being a constant state of hiring right, because if you're allyou're doing is recruiting and hiring and onboarding and training, I meanit's really hard to actually focus on. You know working on the people on theteam, so I want to develop all the people on theteam because I think development is part of what makes people feel likethey're gaining something from the experience. So I thought to myself.Well, development is something that I need to. You know be sort of theproponent of, but I also want to create a feeling of I'mprogressing from a skillsetperspective as well, and I don't think training alone, like checks that boxnecessarily so with that said, I thought about how hills operates, and Ithought okay well, in my you know, count executive roll. I was always onthe hook for being able to project the opportunities I'm working on what stageeach opportunity was than why and I needed to be able to really articulatethe qualification criteria that that, for me, helps me understand the progress ofthat pipeline and why I believed instod by it. Now, of course, my leader wouldchallenge me on that and as he should, and I thought well hang on a second.This is actually just as important for SDRs, because not only is that you knowwhere they're going to end up in general, but ad thebrs, they want tofeel like their efforts are actually translatint to something important.They want to feel like what they're doing matters, and it is a sales roleright I mean we're not selling the product, necessarily we're selling. Youknow the solution to their challenge, we're selling the solves. So from thatperspective, I thought this is a great way to run. It run out a meeting thatnot only avantageous for me because I get to say all right. I can start topredict where my team would end up each in every month. Right based on theCOMMITES that, by the way that I'll talk about the commit definition in thebest case definition hear in a second yea. For me, it helpes me understandthat okay, my teams, the tojectores, looking good or hang on you know we gottwo more weeks left we're way off. We need t we need to make some adjustmentsto get back on track and from the FBR perspective, it helps them feel like ifthey're doing some stuff well, their...

...heres want to know about it, and thenthey start getting looked at by their peers as sort of an expert in certaincertain place. I cand tell you: I went to to R on my team right now and onething: She's done in a very short amount of time: She's become sort oflike the go to person for objection amling, because she's just got reallycreative things, she's saying and doing, and the other afhears had no idea. Butin this meeting it started to become more apparent that that's, where she'sgetting her success and so all of a sudden now you know people are comingto her and making her feel pretty important as they should. So it's openthan tear till good about what they've achieved so far. It also helps themfine Tue to become better. You know moving forward and I'm a Yo now maybeit's the success factors in me from you know back in the day, but we reallybelieved an and took on this idea of Kayzan, which actually is a I'm sure,you're familiar with it Toota I know employs it as well. It's just improve alittle bit every day know from a thirtyoand foot level. That's what thatphilosphy is, and I want o durs to feel like ancient every day, it's not aboutcreating meetings or selling demos or whatever, and then throwing it overaffense and going and get more. If that's how they view their position. Ofcourse, they're going to GIV m first out, of course, e're not kind of wantto do it for long, but if they looked at this role in away that describes the beginning of their tool, set right, they're, gainingthe skills they're learning by getting you know, khynisthetic exposure to allkinds of different scenarios which is going to help them later on in anypurof Fath they take well a sudden hit gets more interesting. So I just wantedto exploit that with meetings like this and there's other things we do. Butthis particular meeting is a pretty you know a pretty mandatory thing. We doevery single week. So so that's that's the meeting from afar.Now you know in terms of definitions, I always tell everybody my team. The waywe're going to do forecasting in terms of commits and best cases. Simply thisa commit is something that is tracking for the week that we're having thatpodtast, and so it's not for the month. It's not where you're going to end upit's just at this week. I think I'm going to get two more man at three moreright and that needs to be with a way behind it of at least ninety fivepercent certainty. If you don't think that it's going to happen for sureright, so that's pretty much for certain then don't commit it put inyour best case now commits can go up, they can't go down yeah and that reallycreates a you know, reflection in the mirror moment for the sras. I put itbecause I want them to really understand their own pipeline. I wantthem to think about. Am I doing enough? Am I given myself the opportunity tohit my number or y so far off now that I need to make some changes and I havetime to make the changes, but it needs to start immediately right, like that'sthe sort of gutcheck moment for them, and you know besides the commit, I mean,that's the number I'm going to use for understand the COMPANIS rejector, theteams fojectory, but for the best case, this is, if all the things that I'mworking on right now work out perfectly. If all the conversations that arelooking kind of good at the moment happened this month, I think I couldend up. You know x by the end of the month, and AC should be greater thanthe commit right because it sort of includes the commit and my strategyaround best case for the SRS is Bukis can go up and it can go down right.It's going to adjust throughout the months based on your bipeline and yourexecution right as you take things down, they drop out of your best case, buthere's the thing the best case should be tracked against the month. Thecommit should be tracked against the week and with that sort of thinkingmysdrs are you know actively...

...considering their pipelines they're,not just mindlessly making dials every day. Trying to you know, apply a onesize pits all thing and hoping that it works. I'm a big fan of hoping you knowfor something to happen. It's not a good strategy right, hop, busines,tragegy yeah. I know there's been books written on that, but but I believe thatI think, like you know, as an Sar you just like in sales, I mean you just gota different sales motion, but you know what we do is so important that youcan't be a robot. You know and I think, there's a huge difference between being in a sale, development, rep andthen being a telemarketer. You know for me, tilemarketing it sort of thatyou've got a script and you call everybody and read off the script andthen you know if you get a reaction that matches you know. Example one.Then you take the script down the prescriptive answer to that you knowreaction and then so on and so forwrth I mean there are organizations that dothat stuff right and to me, that's Minliss, robotic work and it doesn'treally generate the real hypeline where anfpr is very different to be an HACyear. You got to use your brain, you got to be logical. You have to be sortof part, detective, Tart, lawyer, right and you know throughout all of it. Yougot to have a great attitude. You got to strive to be a consultant versusjust a sales guy trying to twist somebody's arm into something that theydon't even want to do much. Let's know why they want to do it. So all these things are wrapped intothe roles and over time I believe, as an FR leader. It's my job to help Surmature through this process, take on board all the skill sets and all thethings that they should be doing in this world to make them stronger futuresales preps. So how does this call like the the structure of it go? Do you guysgo right down the list and you say all right give me your connict give me yourbest case or how does the structure of it work yeah, so the first and foremosI start out by you know with each individual in the room we go around thetable and I do a recap from the week before and I go okay so last week soand so you committed this- and you said your best case would be that and then Igo here is where we're at at the moment and luck. If they hit that's awesome,if they MISSD, then we take some time to drow into. Why did not pan out porthe plan right and understand that and then you know maybe there's some actionot as a come out of that, and then we gravitate towards okay. What's therevision or what's the current commit and best case going to be so we coverthe metric of front right and any action that might come out of that and then then what we do is we spend afew minutes talking about the recovery or the? How the last week's scenarioended up right so tell me, you know we said we're going to do xyd at thiscompany. What happened- and you know, let'sunderstand that because oftentimes you know they might say, you know what Istill haven't gotten them live, I'm trying a few other things I'll have anupdate next week and that's fine too, but if the Dou connect like we anl wantto hear about it and more often than not, those stories become reallyimportant because they start to see that this isn't just people in the roomthrowing out like mindless suggestions, we're getting better and sharper aboutwhat works and what doesn't and it's great to see a canasthetically workingout and then the result support. You know what we're predicting should bethe fix. Now, once we get through that, then we talkabout the new scenario and you know I have a spreadshee built into it'sucually, a Google dock, we're all logged into it and in order for them tocome to this meeting that have to input it in their new scenario for the weekand some of the taps, the have to fill out are: what's the name of the account,what do they do right? What's their industry who's, the persona that we'retalking to? What is your take today on...

...their challenge? What's your strategyfor that, so on and so forth, so they have to fill these things out and then,during their turn, if everybody's looking at the schooldock and we'rejust walking through each box to understand where it stands today, whattheir objective is for e for the account- and sometimes it's you knowit's not as clear tes I just want to set the meeting. Sometimes it's likelook, I'm talking to somebody's a sponsor and he's great, but I know he'snot the authority. How can I lever Tim to get up higher in the food chain likestuff like that, and you know well work through those discussions, and you knoweverybody at that point in time. I opened it up to everybody on the callin the room and we all pitch in around that scenario and everytand. What Ilove is the surs try to they try to outdo themselves, which is great. Theytry to get some more you more clever at that hey. I found this article by goingto this website and t et talks about your account and they just got O Yeuthey're. Getting like a Newceo looks like and Oh look. I just found theirfinancial sheets from like their last shareholder meeting and look. It lookslike they just got shom money allocate for this project. I mean it's reallycool to see all this stuff coming out of the woodworks and it helps themrecognize that this is the Blebel of detail you need to get into, especiallywith the count that matter if their accounts that you brought to the table,because you want to talk about them, I assume their important accounts. Theyshould be targeted. CAS Tit should be account that you know you're you're,not just like. Oh I'm, just Goinna, you know, spin through sales forces pickthe first account that comes to mind. It should be something that care about,because it's the right way for you to be spending your time, and so everybody,the rooms, learning from it and again going back to my earlier point. Ithelps people develop mature through the process, get a better grasp of why SDRsor not telling marketers, I mean you cund, just clearly see even by likehearing this, I mean this isn't what a tellmarketer does, and you know andthat's what I what I love about pills development. Are you committingmeetings, or do you guys go all the way through qualification and committinglike the opportunity that you deliver off to a sales person yeah? So the waywe operate here at Igniteis we're doing completed meetings is what we'recalling it and what that really is descriptive of is you know. We said ameeting for an account executive base off of our criteria, which we go bysome people go by bants. I don't believe in the B. I don't think SDRshave any control over budget, so we go by aunt and it's aunt witute ts, soauthority need time and then territory. We have some segmentation stuff here,so we want to make sure that SRS are actually working their own territory,but the qualification garthere is important because I guess authority isa good place to start a lot of SR teams. I think they just go. I'm looking forthe decision maker Right, I'm looking for the person who makes the decisions,and they sometimes they even say it like that on the phone which me likemakes it cringe, but really Authorityiv to me is just is something I describeas anybody who is part of the committee of decision makers, because I don'tthink a lot of organizations today only have one person makes ha call anymore.I think it needs to get a lot of headnods before a project is approved,especially as the companies get larger or it needs to be somebody who can helpinfluence the decision or co, be somebody who's part of the evaluatingcommittee, or you know the team of people that would look at stuff. Ithink, if wore in that spectrum, then that's somebody that we want to talk toa d we're going to consider that authority as far as the need. Here'swhere I think, a lot of SR teams kind of lose the plot pwell. What happens is-and I hear this all the time because I get prospected to you by other SRS atlots of other companies and one of the things they ask me is so nick. What isyour problem? I don't want to answer that for a lot of reasons, because it'syou know. First off I mean it's a little annoying that you've taken notime to get to know my company. My Organization, maybe not even understandmy role, so you don't even have a sense...

...of what I do and I have to start byexplaining all that te and even if I give you a problem on a silver platter,it might not be the problem that my company needs solved matter of fact.Most cases companies really don't know what challenges en need solved. So what I help my fjrs do is drill in andgo look before. You start going. Oh, the need is x right. You got to sort ofqualify that need make sure that right make sure thatit's not a complaint. It's not one person going. This is my problem and weneed to solve it if it's affecting the business right. If it's somethingquantifiable, chages ars you're closer to it, anything else is maybe more of asymptom and so there's a distinction there and as an account executive.That's maybe where some of that comes from for me, where I coal tell you thatyou know there were some deals that I thought were hey yeah. This guy reallywants it because of Xynz, and I put a lot of effort and time into it and whenit came down to all right time to you know to sign the paper work they didn'twant to do it because also hundred grand two hundred grand half milliondollars to solve that one little thing isn't valuable enough, so that wasn'treally the challenge that they needed to solve, and I missed the mark and Ilearned quickly as an account executive. You've really got to qualify what theyperceive to be the problem versus what the business actually has is problems,and so ' I think there is a big debate right now and how far SDR should go wul.You seem firmly entrenched in the hey, we're going to take it on our our teamto do that qualification to validate that need in that problem before wesend it off to the sales team and dothey feel like that's a big help tothem. Do they, like you, guys going to that level or o they feel like heybaywe was sometimes ereleaving something on the table, because an strcan't have the right kind of conversation all the time. How do youget around that yeah? Well, I think the debate isinterestbecause. I've heard this too, and- and you know, through a lot of theinterviews I've been doing over the last year or two- I've also seen amaybe a little bit of trend where a lot of companies are just they're, creatingthese quotas that are astronomical, because the output that they're, askingas you are to do, is not really the same that I'm asking my team to do.What I'm asking out of my team is a qualified meetings a month which I feelis reasonable, at's to weak right, where some people are going to give meforty, which means they really can't qualify. There's just two levers:There's volume, an there's quality I mean one's going to suffer if ones allthe way up, the other one's going to be kind of all the way down, and so youknow what. Ultimately, it comes down to how it is an organization value. It'sSCR team. If you're going to ask the CEO of any company that the answer isnot going to be well, I think or RCR team is great because they set up a lotof meatings. The answer is going to be. I love our SDR team, because they'vebrought us a lot of close business. Yeah right and that's the problem isthat a lot of these other organizations are. You know, they're seting, thesetax frstoors to just tactically and mindlessly set up. These calls that arereally not qualified, but you know not a lot coming out the other end, whichis close business, and so I think it's counterintuitive to the end result. SoI'm not going to tell you that every single completed meeting that happenson my team is always a hundred percent Callfie, because that's not really trueeither, but that's the standard. What we want to do is we want to get as muchas possible, and you know sometimes sometimes as an FDR. You can go as faras going nick, I feel like I got. I got like seventy eight percent interest. Imean I. If I were to drill anymore, I feel, like you know, maybe I cut intothe discovery call a little bit so I just went head and set it up. Hav An inyours feeling that way, there's no harm, no foul in that. I just think that atthat point in time they need to also work with the account executive thatthey're paired with and set expectations. You know e a this. Isthere's not going to be a typical call.

You know I've got maybe three out ofthe four criteria points, but here's the positives. Here's what I think theygoing to care about here is what I think we should focus on and thenduring that that call, if anything else, ops up or whatever, let's drill in andlet's Reevaluat, whether or not this is baged enough for us to move forward andmake it completed. So I think that's a realistic SR motion. Yeah! That's areally good point of know if you said unrealistic expectations, you're goingto get delivered a lot of marginal meetings and a lot of marginal outputfrom an str team, and I think quality is always better than quantity. Sobefore you wrap this up, you've been kind of you know, I would argue, havingstarted at sap as and SDR and been in that world for so long. Now that youknow you be a pioneer, if you will ofe this by this kind of role on this kindof function, if you were to go back and tell your SR or Shoure you do this now,but like tell us like he, the one practical takeaway, I can implement itright now. Things is like the biggest thing that you've learned in all thistime and this kind of a function o wow one thing: Howdo you get Nol I I starto me to bring Thi Xanto once e thing, but I'll try my best here. I think asan far the number. One thing is attitude and I'll tell you why I saythat sbrs, I don't think always considerthat they're being interpreted at every stage, every engagement, everyinteraction, there's a takeaway, and so you know for me, I'm a huge believer inthe laws of average and I find that a lot of people don't understand a law ofaverage. You probably heard that turm too, so I actually spent some time backin college and I really studied statistics and actually did some numbertheories courses as well and what I came out with wash some really mind,blowing answers that I never would have come to the conclusion on my own, whichis you know, a lot of average stays that you know from a high level, themore people you talk to. Obviously, the more results you can expect right.Everybody knows that Wy there's a second or third layer,trill down. That's really important for us. Tr t understand, which is it's notjust about playing the numbers, see actuall is an equasion at player, whichis your effort which can be. You know, I guess we'll say a variable he rightof the equation. He needs to be a multiplier with a attitude, becauseevery single time that an SPR starts to make calls in the beginning, especiallytheir attitude, is what they're excited they're anxious. They can't wait to getsomebody live and then and then they can't wait to try to like get thatperson into a meeting and they're excited when it happens and all thisgreat stuff, but what happens throughout even even the course of oneday where maybe they started excited but like by midday they've, let a lotof hoice mails. Maybe they had some rejection. Maybe they got a lot of likeno answers, and so they start feeling a little bit. You know the opposite t. Itstart feeling a little defeated. They start feeling like, what's even going on, can't even keepup with it anymore. Well, clearly, that's a change of attitude, and hereis the part of a lot of avages which to me is so mind blowing, which is everysingle time. Your attitude changes throughout your efperkey. Well, now,you've stopped that set of lots of ours that you were building towards andyou've started a new set of laws of average. That is based on your newattitude and if that one doesn't complete and the one before it doesn'tcomplete, that's why your results are no and so here's the thing as an FDRmaintain your attitude. Don't look at anything, that's going to happen to youthroughout the day. Throughout the week gout the month as being detrimental toyour health, I mean it's just US...

...calling people having conversationwe're not carring cancer. Here siht I mean it's not pretty surgery. This isyou gotta, find ways to enjoy what you do and he got u find ways to be okaywith any outcome that happens and once you're a piece with that you cand startupplying the best version of you in everything you do and that's going tocreate, consistent attitude and that consistent attitude is going to createmore opportunities for you, because people will understand you're beinggenuine right people. I think you know sometimes as Brs. We forget that ourprospects are not stupid. They can sese very quickly if you're, desperate theycan sens very quickly. If you're, you know, you've got an agenda that thatyou care about and you don't care about them right. So all of this is tied andI know that's a long winded answer. I told it's hard for me to keep it Thoone thing, but if it's going to be that one thing it's have fun, keep yourattitude up and just remember that you know the lot of averages. Is it's a law,it's a statistical thing and you have to have faith that it'll pan out andyou're going to give yourself the best probability to do so. If you have fundoing it, that's that's balleriwas! Actually, just talking to my boss andtentor Matmillan about this, and you know he he had the privilege of workingin leading Tony Robin Sales Team for nine years and he brings this aplusgame of mental attitude and mindset to every conversation and every call andhe's always talking about like eighty percent of a rep success is built ontheir psychology and like they can do all the process and work they want towith the psychologis that there like. It really hampers the rest of whatthey're trying to do, and I mean I think it's really insightful and if Iwas a manager of strs every day, that would definitely be on my board ofnumberof dials NHUBER emails. No, our meeting set and where's your attitudeat that's right, Ye, Wasom and hey thanks for thanks. Somuch for sharing all this nick like how can people get in touch with you ifthey have any other questions or whath? You know want to meet up it talk aboutlike some of the other stuff that you've talked about well, first off,you know, thanks for having me, it's been a pleasure as far as contact youcan reach me at Nigg sorrows at gmailcom. That's probably the easiestway or you can find me at Nick Saros, on Linkdon or on twitter. Awesome man.Well, hey thanks! So much for taking the time today was great having you andop everyone listening, we'll see U on the next sales and Dae coat. This was another episode of the salesengagement. PODCAST join us at sales, engagementcom for new episodes,resources and the book on sales. Engagement coming soon to get the mostout of your sales engagement strategy, make sure to check out o' reach te Io.The leading sales engagement platform see you on the next episode.

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