The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

Why Cold Outreach is Dying and Why You Need a Personal Brand w/ Sahil Mansuri

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Bravado is a professional community for sales people, whose mission is to elevate the profession of sales, help buyers solve problems, all while championing the salespeople who treat their customers with respect.

Our guest on today's podcast is Sahil Mansuri, CEO of Bravado. Sahil talks about the evolution of the sales profession, where we are on the sales pendulum, why your reputation is crucial, and so much more. Tune in!

 

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast. This podcast is brought to you by outreach dot I oh, the leading sales engagement platform helping companies, sellers and customer success engage with fires and customers in the modern sales era. Check out sales engagementcom for new episodes, resources and the book on sales engagement coming soon. Now let's get into today's episode. Welcome everybody today to another incredible episode of the Sales Engagement podcast. I'm joined by an awesome guy, an awesome businessman and awesome seller. Just hung out with them and dream forth before that, hung out with them in on the leash last year. Super impressed by this guy. It's a heal mon sory CEO, bravado. He's going to be talking today. It's on the show today to talk about something very important that you may think about kind of are you feel inherently, but not something that you really actively think about day to day at times, and that is being trustworthy your personal brand and reputation and the best way to move deals forward and connect with prospects that are really going to be the good ones for you. So I'm going to toss it on over to to heel to introduce himself. How you doing, man, get to see you it is. See you too, Joe, and this will be fine. Thanks for having me. Absolutely in terms of in Troy. Yeah, I'm seal and I'm the cofounder and CEO of a company called Bravado. Bravado is a professional community for salespeople and our mission is to elevate the profession of sales, to champion salespeople who treat their customers with integrity, with respect, who are credible and trustworthy sources of information that help buyer solved problems and I think a very similar to some of the great stuff that you guys do over there at outreach. Yeah, I mean we try to. I like to operate with integrity and respect to with everyone that I connect with. But really excited to have you on the show and let's just jump right into it. So I think we all know that referrals and warm intros are kind of the way to go. I mean I'm doing it every day, twenty times a day, trying to get guests on this podcast right. So I ask my buddy Max over here, I ask many to intro me, to me, to people, and it's really the best way. But told me a little bit about the human side and why a warm intro is so important. Yeah, I mean, Oh, look, I think that cold outreach has been the mechanism that has been used over the course of the last ten years and broadly, but really specifically in the last five years. You know, with the rise of companies like outreach, like a sales left kind of previously to that, the tout APPs and the yes wars and other tools like that, cold outreach became kind of this new exciting thing because for the first time you were able to get scale right. And so it used to be. We if we take a step back...

...and look at the evolution of the profession of sales, you start out with sales people in the profession of sales being defined by hard work, by Hustle, by Grit, by having a never say known a can do attitude. And that was necessary because if you were a salesperson, you were, you know the expression we say carrying a bag right, it comes from you literally carrying a bag of your goods, or whether it's Encyclopedia's vacuum cleaners or whatever was, and going door to door, knocking on people's doors and trying to get them to take a meeting, learn about your product and hopefully make a purchase. And so sales was really driven by volume, right. It was like if you knocked on twenty doors, then you had, you know, expercentage chance of getting a deal, if you knocked on a hundred doors, if you knocked up five hundred doors. And so you were looking for people with a lot of stamina, somebody who had the ability to persist. Right, persistence was of value in sales. And then you now have platforms like outreach, where you're able to, with the click of a button, send five hundred emails or, you know, you are able to sit there with a dialer and just wait and it just keeps dialing until someone actually answers and then you're able to work. So you don't there's a lot of elimination of the necessity to be persistent in that way. And so now what is the modern celler? Right, in a world in which you can pick a button and send five hundred emails, in a world in which you can automatically dial a bunch of phone numbers, what is it that sets on salesperson apart from the other? And what we have seen through working with thousands of sales teams on Provado has been that the sales people who are industry experts, who understand and know not just their own product but their competitors products, and who are able to build true, meaningful relationships with their prospects and their buyers, sought so that they're able to lily pad from deal to deal to deal, are able to break through the noise. Right, it's no secret that cold call response rates are dropping. It's no secret that cold email rates are dropping, and thus the rise of personalization and thus the rise of things like Sindoso and pfl which are, you know, what is old as new right like once Finn of time, sending direct mail is something that no one did not everyone's like, oh, we should add direct mail to our campaign. You know, everyone talks about ABM, and ABM is nothing more than target accounts, you know, in target organizations. And so if we look at the evolution of the profession of sales, it used to be that you needed a salesperson who worked really hard, and today you don't need to work hard to get scale, to give volume. So what you need to do is be able to work smart and build smart, thoughtful relationships, and I would say that it is completely evolved the role of the salesperson from being the person who got you into the door versus a person who can actually give you a meaningful core...

...of the product and actually be able to be more of a consultant than being somebody who is just a product M or or whatnot. So, like most things in industry, like sales is going to be cyclical. Right, like you said, what's old is new again. Where are we on the pendulum? So obviously we swaying way towards volume, crazy persistence, blasting thousands of people with emails. Now we're swinging back the other way. When do we find that happy medium, or are we already there? Yeah, I think that the answer to what is going to happen next in be tob is often governed by what is already happened in be Toc, right, and so I think that be tob just tends to be a lacquered when it comes to processes and trends. But it's very easy to predict what the next step is because you just look at what happened in the world of B Toc. And if I look at what happened in B Toc, what I see is the fact that there are fewer barriers to entry. If you will, get Netflix's home page, for example, it says seven hundred and ninety nine per month, no credit card required, one month free trial. Click here to start watching. Right you go to Amazon's page and it's like one click to buy, guaranteed return policy, right, like it's so buyor centric, it's so by or only. In fact, my wife and I often joke that, like, I occasionally accidentally buy things from Amazon. We're like, I think I'm just adding it to my cart and that just like shows up at my house and it's not even a big deal because if we don't like it, we can just send it back and there's no there's no harm, no foul. And in a world in which consumers are being treated like royalty by brands, that same person who's watching Netflix at home and who is and who is ordering off of Amazon, then puts on their suit and tie and comes to work to be the CTEO or the crow or the CMO or whatever of some company, and he or she now goes to a pricing page and sees contact sales. They now are is being inundated with cold emails and cold calls and messaging and it's off putting. Right it's upsetting because they're like, well, on the one hand, my life is so easy as a consumer, right it's like Tesla's like trying to make it so you don't even need to drive, your car just drives itself for you. And on the other hand it's like, if I'm trying to do something in the world of beat and be, it's like I need to talk to an SDR who qualifies me, who then sends me off on this goose chase the two thought forms. And and we're starting to see the change here with companies like drift, with companies like Intercom, who are who are coming out with really fascinating tools to reduce the friction between buyer and seller. And so if you were to ask me where they is trending, I think anything that creates friction will be seen as distasteful and...

...archaic and practice, anything that makes it easier, faster and simpler for a buyer to make a decision, I think is is going to be in vogue and be championed by the community and so, ultimately, on the pendulum of where we are, I think it sales people. As the role of the salesperson is no longer limited to get someone into the door and try to get them into this car today sort of thing. But it's but it's now more focused on being more like part sales engineer, right, partly like a sales engineer who is more like, Oh, I'm not here to sell you, I'm just here to like consult you. Right, there's half of that, and then the other half of it is being able to turn around and say I'm kind of like a Mackenzie or Bin Consultant in the sense that I'm going to analyze your business problems, I'm going to understand what goals are trying to solve, I'm going to read your s one filings and then I'm going to understand where your business objectives are and I'm going to figure out how this piece is software, how this tool can be leverage in order for you to accomplish those goals. So I think sales just becomes far more strategic as a profession. Talk to me a little bit about we're reputation plays into all of this because as you build these more meaningful and valuable relationships between buyer and seller throughout the sales process, right, it's a real connection and you obviously don't want to be connected or be working with anyone who you've heard through the grapevine is a genrible person or they going to screw you over in the end, or for what? Right? So, I mean it doesn't even take. I don't even think it takes that right, because because if you look at the reputation of sales people across the board, sales has a reputation problem. Right, hup spot did it. I mean look in this anecdotally. This is really simple. But sales has really clear, like a very, very clear perception problem. And if you look at hup spot study, that says that sales is the number two least trusted profession in the world. Right, number two. We are less trusted than lawyers, who are more trusted than us. We are less trusted than mechanics, who are more trusted than us. We are less trusted than every profession. Say, for one, thank goodness for politicians, because we still were still not worse than politicians. But that's the really, really low bar to be eclipsing three percent. Three percent of buyers say that they trust sales people. What does that mean? What does that mean? Well, I think what it means is everybody knows that sales is all about building a relationship. You cannot have a relationship with someone you do not trust. salespeople, by default, are not trusted, and so the only way to succeed in sales historically has been I get a buyer to trust me through numerous interactions. Right, I earn trust, I earn the...

...right. Nobody's got time for you to earn the right right. People are busy. Everything is available online. A restaurant doesn't have the opportunity to earn the right to get your business by saying come try our food and figure out if it's good or not, because people are just going to go to Yelp, read the review of what other people's experience was and then make a decision as to whether they should try it or not. No employer has the ability to earn the right to say come in for an interview and then we'll tell you about what how great it is to work here. Everybody just goes to glass door and read reviews of what it's like to work there and then makes a decision if they want. And with the rise of things like G to crowd trust Radis Cap Tera. Our industry now has the same thing, where now we have product reviews. I'm not going to I'm not going to take a meeting. I'm not going to sit down and say, okay, I need to buy a sales acceleration software. Should I buy outreach and I buy one of their competitors? I'm going to go and do research in advance to figure out which ones I should buy. So now, at As a salesperson, I've lost control over the sales process. I no longer have the ability to say hey, come take a meeting to learn about my software, because that person is going to say, well, I already know about your software right, I've already read the thousands of reviews of your software that are available publicly online. I don't need to talk talk to you to learn about the software. So then, what does a salesperson offer? I think what a salesperson offers those consultation. They can say, well, write, you can hear about the product and you can read about the product, but talk to me and I'll help you understand how you can get more from how we can help you improve your reply rates, how we can make your reps more efficient, how we can use our technology into your existing text act pull it all together and help you drive better business results. So the only reason I'm getting on the phone with a salesperson isn't because I want a product demo or I want to like learn about your tool. I'm getting on the phone with a salesperson because that person can help me improve my business. How does a salesperson who by default is not trusted, as we have already as we've already covered, how do I then convince someone that it's worth the thirty minutes? And I think that this is why platforms like Linkedin, platforms like the medium, platforms like, hopefully bravado as well, are available for salespeople to say, Hey, wait a minute, buyer, come check out my thought leadership in this space, check out what other customers have to say about doing business with me, so that I can earn the right for you to take thirty minutes to have a call with me. And I think that's where in the world that we're getting to, is where, if a salesperson doesn't have a strong personal brand, then buyers are just going to say, why would I take a meeting with you? I can just figure out everything online. So for the sales people listening and I hope that's most of the people listening. What...

...are the steps they can take to improve their personal brand to exude trustworthiness? Right, because it's, like you said, in history it's been proven that overmotile interactions, that's how you build trust. Like you said, we don't have that time anymore. So great things that sales people can do immediately to improve their chances of being trustworthy too, perspective buyers. That's training. So I think it's a twofold interaction. Right, there's industry expertise and then there's validation from the market. So let's talk about industry expertise first. So once Upun a time. I think that sales people thought that the way you leveled up is by going to sales training. Right. You weren't tactics. Everyone talks about Challenger and medic and it. Don't get me wrong, I think that sales training and sales process and philosophies have it have their place and I think you should warn the fundamentals. But at the end of the day we all know how to sell something, right. I mean from the first miss. Everyone's first job is in sales, whether you were selling girl scout cookies or whether you were selling magazines or whether you were selling lemonade and a lemonade stand. Everybody's done sales. You sold yourself to get into college, you sold yourself in order to get your first job. Of You, if you happen to be married, you sold yourself to your partner. Like like, we sell ourselves and things around us all the time. It's a very instinctual a biche. It's natural for us as human being. Right, what do you think perfume is? When you think makeup is right, when you think wearing designer closes, what do you think? It's all sales, right, that's just sales marketing. So learning how to sell isn't the challenge. The the challenge is, what is the information that you have that buyers want, and what buyers want is to communicate with someone that they find inspiring, someone that they find to be a thought leader in their space. So one of the things that I've seen work really effectively is salespeople who, instead of doing sales training, focus on becoming an expert in their industry. And so what do I mean by that? Let's just take a really simple example. Let's say that you work for a glass door should. I used to work at and I had experience selling. When I got to glass door, I didn't know anything about town acquisition, I didn't know anything about HR, didn't know anything about employment branding, I knew nothing about the space. All I knew was that I'd hired like ten people in my life, but that that was my limited experience. And when I got there I started subscribing to every single hr newsletter I could find. I started interviewing and talking to all of our existing customers. I spend time with our HR in person internally at glass door, along with former h our people that I'd worked with it other companies and friends of mine who are in HR, and I tried to learn all about all the different Atss they had and ACM's that they had and all of everything I could find. I was voracious in my appetite to learn about town acquisition and hr such, so that when I got on the phone with a prospect, I was able to not just have a meaningful conversation where I could understand what they were going through, but oftentimes I had some unique inside or some...

...corky article or something that I read that would capture their attention, and that is how I was able to build relationships and trust at glass door. Now, when I left last or and when I moved on to go work it other companies, where there is an attack or whether it was and lead scoring or whatnot, I spent all of my energy and all of my effort on becoming a subject matter expert in the industry in which I was selling. In today's Day and age, and I didn't do this. This is two thousand and eight, two thousand nine, two thousand and ten, but in today's Day and age you have a megaphone and that megaphone is eating medium bravado, linkedin post content, post content out there, share articles, share videos, comment on things, engage in the conversation that is happening in your industry and become a fountain of knowledge that buyers prospects, whether there your customers or not, whether they're ICP or not. are like man. You know that Joe Guy. He knows a lot about sales, he knows a lot about sales enablement, he knows a lot about sales operations, he knows a lot about you know how to coach's and SDRs. I use a great example your you have a Guy Sam Nelson on your team. He wrote this great str a Gogi, a try revolution thing, where he took a bunch of junior sdrs and he coached them up and he how he helped them perform. And it's content like that that people want, right because if I'm an SDR manager, I'm looking at outreach as a thought leader in the space of sales enablement and SDR coaching, and so of my SDR managers and my sales reps are putting out content that is going to create value for those people who are my prospects, in my customers, then they're going to naturally start talking about outreach, trusting us, being part of our community, and I think that's the sort of step that you need to take as a salesperson. But now the other half of it is market validation, which is to say, in today's Day and age, I always want to hear about what other people's experience has been. Right. You hear about a new movie that you went to make. So, Joe, how was it right? That's the first question people. Eighty four percent of people trust online reviews just as much as they trust to recommendation from a friend. And so what bravado does, and it's not just our platform, but I think many others that are out there. What we are all trying to do is to help sales people stand up and say you know what. I know that, Joe. I know you don't know me because you and I have never done business together before, but I've worked with Max before and Max and I are friends and he really enjoys working with me, and I know many too, and many and I have worked together as well. So, because many and Max stand up and have nice things to say about me, will you take thirty minutes as well, I promise, and won't be a waste your time. That is such a more impactful pitch than some shitty like cold outreach, spanny thing that people send out. You can't rely on your five hundred email click a buttons and you can't rely on linkedin helper or whatever else is out there. You have to be original,...

...authentic and a True Fountain of Knowledge. You can't fake it anymore. You have to actually know your stuff and if you don't, then it's going to be very clear that you will struggle in sales today. So that leads me to a good point, because, while what you just laid out seems simple, a simple process right continue to learn, get out there on your soapbox, let people know what you learn, contribute to the conversation. It's time consuming, I mean if you were going to be devouring books and blog posts and linkedin posts. That's a lot to ask for a SDR who's already working sixtus, seventy, eighty hours a week trying to hit their number. And I know you said you can't fake it anymore, and that's the very good point. You can't. But what do you say to that SDR who's been in the Biz for three months, who's just struggling and they like they know that what you just said is the right way to do it, but time is short and they have todd their number. That's right, and this is one of the interesting changes that I think is coming in the world of sales, which is a focus on quality over quantity and and I think that part of this is driven by the fact that as an SDR, you are required to hit certain activity goals, certain volume goals. Right, but again, volume is easy to fake right in today's Day and age, and this is where this comes from. Right, once upon a time it was valuable to have someone who made five hundred cold calls in a day one times. Once upon a time it was a matter of pride how many emails you said. I remember they're being leaderboards inside of offices in which I worked, where it was you know, number of emails set, number of calls made right when. I remember sales managers walking around and saying stupid stuff like it's not going to dial itself. You know, and and and and the point of that is no one wants to answer on the other side anymore, dude, like no one cares, like no one's going to pick up your call. I get fifty, anywhere from twenty five to fifty cold calls per day, every single day. I don't answer a single one. If I don't have your number, I'm not going to answer the phone period. Leave a voicemail, figure out if it's important later. There's no chance in picking of the phone if I don't know who you are. You have to be someone who comes recommended from my network. You have to be someone who's call I am expecting, and the way that you get on my radar as someone who's call I'm expecting is because you and I have a relationship already, and I think that this is the reality of how sales is going today. And that's not to say the cold calling as an industry is going away. I don't believe that. I don't think anything goes away, but I think what happens is that these things become less effective and then they gets faced out in deep prioritize for things that are working better. And I think that what is on the come up these days is reaching out to your existing customers and saying, Hey, can you introduce me to so and so? I used to never get emails like that, but I get them all the time now I get all the time. I'm like, Hey, you know, Seeho, I see that...

...you're connected to Soanso on Linkedin. Or Hey, Seo, I see that you used to work this company. Can you make me an intro to this person and can you make me an intro to that person? And that, I think, is the future of sales. is where we actually start. You know, we've had this term for a long time. We I'm sure you've heard of it. It's called social selling and what it meant was basically spamming people on twitter, facebook and Linkedin and and that is not so, which is not social selling. Joe Rally is a friend of mine and someone who, like really espouses a lot on this and I just admire and and such a huge jet, such a huge champion. And so, in today's Day and age, as and str you're like you're saying, well, how do I prioritize my time in my effort when I have to work so hard? Look, you have automation tools at your fingertips that make it less onerous for you to hit activity volume. That's not a sign that you can now give up the tie. It's it's not a matter that you can leave it for cock now. That's all. That's not what that means. But that means is that now, from four to six, you better invest in reading those articles, and from six to eight, you better invest in in creating content, and then from eight to ten, you better publish that content. So the next day we can wake up at eight, eight o'clock in the morning, there's going to be a bunch of people who've already responded to that content and liked it and I shared it, and then you're going to engage with those people and then you'll get back to your desk at nine and then, yes, you'll do your full days work, but it's all of the stuff you have to do around it that previously was kind of like trivial that today's Day and age is could have distinguished the sales people who make it into this next era and the people who fall behind, which I think is pretty clear. And for the sales managers who are listening, how would you advise them to enforce these new types of behaviors to their reps? Right, because they're still they have their own number that they have to account for. And yet this is starting to be proven that this type of activity, being a voracious reader, knowing your stuff, being the subject matter of expert are all just as important as your activity numbers. So how do you try? How should they instill these types of traits in their reps when it's probably some of them are this is new to them too. That's right. I mean, look, we're all learning, right. They know it, know it's an expert at it yet because it's all new, and I think what we need to do is use a very simple principle. Right, I think the North Star you can use is how does my customer want to buy? What is the feedback from the market? You know, I think it starts. I think it starts at a very simple level, which is the talent pole that you're hiring from. I think when I read job descriptions for sales posts, and still I still cringe at the number of times that I see things that are like, we're looking for a hustler and we're looking for an athlete and we're looking for sales Ninja. Right, I have never met a buyer, not even once in my entire life of I met a buyer who said, you know, I really want to buy from a hustler, I really want to buy from a sales Ninja, you know what they say. I want to buy from someone who's really were backful, who's really kind, who knows their stuff, who's someone that I trust, someone that I want to do business with for a long period of time, someone who gets my business and someone that I want to I see as a partner to my success. That's...

...what buyers say they want, and yet we are hiring people and putting expectations on them that are the antithesis of what buyers actually want. And so I think that more and more we need to we need to not look at the lens of like what's working, what's not working, what have I been trained to do? What have I've not been doing to do? We see to use a really simple philosophy, which is, what is it that my buyers want? How do they want to buy? How do they learn, where do they engage? What is the way in which we can build authentic relationships with the people that we want to be our users or our customers, and then go out and just prioritize those things. And so, if I'm a sales manager today, I mean look at Gardener. came out with a great stat recently which I which first of all, is completely unsurprising, but the number was more surprising how high it was. Gardner said fifty seven percent of customer loyalty, fifty seven percent of customer loyalty is built during the customer experience. And what does that mean? What is the customer experience? It's built during the pre sales process that is driven by the REP and when they say customer loyalty, they're talking about retention. They're talking about how long does the customer actually stay on? So That's interesting right. If the if, the experience that is that a buyer has during the sales process is impactful and meaningful to whether they actually are going to be retained on as a customer in the future. Why would you not invest in making that experience as delightful as possible? Why would you not invest in making sure that that person feels like this is an amazing team that's really supportive? That is not salesz and I say that word with caution because I think that even the stigma of that word, I think, is completely unfair. But connotatively, we know what it means and I think, denotatively, we need to change the definition. I think that, you know, sales is not a bad word, but it's seen that way. Or it's my belief that sales is the noble profession. It's a profession of either you build it or you sell it. These are the only two things that any company serve lives to do. Everything else is just kind of bullshit, right, either you're building it or you're selling it. That we champion the builders, right, we champion the engineers, the designers, the product people, and I think it's about time we started championing that, the sellers, the people who are actually bringing this product to the market or serving customers. And so if I'm a sales manager today, I say to my sales team. Look, we are the face of this company, we are the personification of this company when we walk into an allhands meeting and our company, our CEO, puts up the values of this company. That's great internally and I get like culture building and stuff, and that's important, but if we don't live those values in the way we go to market with customers, then it's just a bunch of bullshit. It's just a bunch of like hocus pocus, because if our values are to practice with integrity or to be respectful or to be kind or to have each other's backs, then we...

...need to do that externally as well. So we're not going to fight over leads, we're not going to go to a conference and shit talk competitors. Right, that's not how we're going to operate. We're going to operate with integrity, with respect, with the values of the company. And then one last point to that. There's this really interesting and I am stealing this from actually, guess from from a podcast that I was out a while ago, where they said that the term for somebody who does sales is sales representative. Right, that's the term that we're familiar with and in people and it's shortened, the sales wrapped or whatever often. But think about that second word for a second. Right, representative. What does that mean? It means to represent, it means to be the thing that is representing this company, this product, to the market. That's a heavy responsibility and you should carry that burden with the respect and with the weight that it deserves. I think that people just throw it away. I'm just to sales rap, right, I'm just to wrap us, to wrap right. People say that, no, that's not true. Right, you are representing your company where that with pride, do it with honor, and I think that if people think of sales in that way, I think that we will go much further as an industry. Amen. I mean, that's exactly how we feel at our reach and it's something we say often that the salesperson of the lifeblood of a company and they are the key to bringing your innovations to market. Right, the world is a better place because sellers are good at their job and they're bringing new and exciting things and solving problems all around the world. So it's great to hear that and very clear. You're passionate about this subject, and I mean it's getting me riled up about just how how much in a hole the sales profession is, just connotatively, and we need to change that. Absolutely, one hundred percent agree. So, you know, this has been a great, great chat. If people want to get hold of you, how can they do that? Yeah, I'll give you my content information. But before you go, I want to speak to something that you said, which is bringing innovation to the market in the world is a better place. Right. So, because I don't want to disparage a company are competitors, I won't mention who it was, but four years ago I became one of outreaches very first customers and it was so early in the day that the sales rep that pitched me was many, because you didn't have a sales tape. Some as many who did the pitch. And I'm sure when he hears me tell this story and laugh. And many got on the phone and I told many. I was like look, worst timing ever. I just signed a one year contract with one of your biggest competitors last week. Right, call me an eleven months and I'll do an e value should but many was many is well, I mean you've met many, right, he's pretty persistent, pretty fire guy and he was like no, no, this is amazing, you got to check it out, and I was like all right. So I get on the phone with this guy and he starts pitching. I've never met him...

...before and he starts pitching me and he gives me this like incredible presentation about his vision he has and how this tools going to do all these great things and whatever, and I was very interesting right. I got into it. And then afterwards he starts asking me a ton of questions and he's like, well, why do you use, you know, x tool, and what do you like about it? What do you not like about it? How can we make it better? And in the questions that he asked me it became really apparent. You know, I had just taken this for granted. One out of three times that my reps, because I was I was a VP of sales at the time, wanted three times that we were trying to use a tool, it would kind of short circuit right, it would kind of break down and when it would break down, our rips would have to reload the sequence. and to me, one out of three wasn't bad, because a tool we're using before that was like two out of three. So this was like a massive improvement and man, he was like it should never break. I'll build you something that will never break, and he was so passionate about it that he gave us one free license. At the time I was running a team of like twenty or something like that, and he gave us one free license and he told our head of sales operations at the time, a name that will be familiar to in a moment. He told our head of sales operations he's like have a free seat our CTEO and VPA product. Andrew Kissner will work with you to like demise a solution whatever, and they basically work with us for free for an entire month. And so we had like Manny and Andrew get on calls. They would figure out what was going on and it would so consultative in their approach and within a month and a half my head of sales ops had gotten one or two of our strs using outreach instead of this other tool, and then within another month or two the entire str team was using outreach. And this was all happening and I was familiarize, I knew what was going on right and I was kind of annoyed because I was like, well, we paid for this other thing and now we're using this thing. And like, I like consistent. Every cell leader wants consistency whatever. And in two and a half months the entire team moved on to outreach and I broke my contract with the other company and I was friend through the CEO of that company as well, and he was obviously distraught at what I had done, but I told him I was like, look, the products better, but their service is amazing. And I've told you a hundred times that this is breaking, this is happening and this is happening and no one seems to give a crap. And the reason why I mention all of that is because by moving on to outreach, we were able to go from twenty to fifty reps and we were able to increase the efficiency per rep. I was able to build a team of SDR so it was like ten to twelve instead of like two or three. Like it was amazing how much value it created for my life, selfishly for me and selfishly for our company, the fact that many delivered a great sales experience on that first call. And so the reason I share this story with you. Is because it is sometimes taken for granted by sales reps that like, oh, I like to you know, like my customers buy my product, of hitting my quote on getting my commission check with, everything's very myopic. But if you take one step back and you said, we'll wait a minute, I actually...

...making a difference in someone else's life. Like am I making it a little bit easier for that person to sleep better because they hit quote a couple days earlier, making this SDR's life only ezier because they don't need to reload their stupid sequence and waste another hour? And like it creates real value, and that is why I believe sales is a noble profession. And so to get ahold of me, it's just to heal. Say Hil at Bravado Dot Coo. Bravado is br a Vado. You know, to find me on linked in and twitter at SB men. Sorry, I'm always happy to hang a chat and nerd out about sales stuff. Oh Yeah, man, thank you so much for being on the show today. Want to thank all of our listeners for tuning in and we will see you next time on the sales engagement podcast. Thanks. A lot of this was another episode of the sales engagement podcast. Join US at sales engagementcom for new episodes, resources and the book on sales engagement coming soon. To get the most out of your sales engagement strategy, make sure to check out outreached I oh, the leading sales of meatment plot. See you on the next episode.

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