The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

Using Visual Communication To Create A Spike In Pipeline And Increase Employee Engagement w/ Peter Chun

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Peter Chun, VP of Sales at Lucidchart, tells us how he’s using visual communications to increase the efficiency and effectiveness of both sales and employee engagement in this week’s episode. Tune in as he and Mark give great insight into the impacts and implications of true face time and visual tech.

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast. This podcast is brought to you by outreach dot I oh, the leading sales engagement platform helping companies, sellers and customer success engage with fires and customers in the modern sales era. Check out sales engagementcom for new episodes, resources and the book on sales engagement coming soon. Now let's get into today's episode. Hey everyone, welcome to the sales engagement podcast. It's me, more costaglow in the VP of sales at outreach, and today I'm going to have an awesome conversation with Peter Chun. Peter, why don't you introduce yourself? Hey everyone, I love how everyone. I feel well, how, because I'm from Honolula, Hawaii, originally, currently the VP of self here at lucid software, lucid chart cool. Tell us a little bit about what lucid, Peter, so good, you guys so here? Yeah, yeah, so, here in Lucid we are striving to provide the meeting cloud based visual productivity platform, and the idea behind it is that we're trying to innovate the way that companies communicate, and they communicate visually right into how did the company INNOVAT. How do they communicate? We scribe to provide that platform for our clients and you know are use cases is very broad, anywhere from it and engineering, our original you the case, all the way to marketing HR and now there's a big focus on sale. I think you'll see us a lot more in the sales community as we've tailored our solution to really help sells reps self, leaders, tells, operations, sels, engineers leverage our platform to be able to succeed in their selfcools. And one reason I wanted to bring Peter in on the podcast is lucid charts is one of the fastest growing companies, or a darling of silicon slopes, and he's been tasked with not only leading his closers and revenue generating team, but also he works with this and leasy SDR team that kind of helps to queue...

...up the meetings in the pipeline for his closers to turn into revenue, and so it's super interesting to me to have someone like that that runs all the full cycle to kind of talk about sales engagement. But something you just said, Peter, intrigued me. Said about we want to take people from communicating the way they do now to doing it more visually. I would love to know if you have anything that you're testing out or trying or that's worked where you've used visual engagement to help with your sales engagement of their your prospectors in your sales reps. versus, just typical like Hey, I'm going to write an email. Hope somebody reads it. Right, right, if that, that's a great point. Mark, you talked about there. You know, you think about the way I like to explain it to some of our new reps. you think about as you're growing up, like if you're to google type and do a google search and look up the element, try school classroom, right, and which will pull up in your images is colorful classroom, a lot of shapes, a lot of visual learning going on. And then you look at like if you're to look up a college lecture hall, Right, it's a very start. You you'd pull up. Commonly you'd find this stark room which is projector up front, and usually the homework is like a we this text. And then and the whole idea is that we communicate visually, right, is give directions or explain a complex concept idea. And finally, the joke is I hey, you need to draw a picture for you. So it says pins phenomena that we see here, even internally with our sell team, right, as we work these deals, complex deals, and you have different teams working right in today's Day and age, especially in tech, the to be sad, sales, you have a team of people on your cell side, right, whether they're your self, engineers, your self development, account development, your closers, even your product or where your marketing teams that are involved in working these deals, and so there's this need to communicate a lot of information and so we use it internally, Solution Lucy Charts, to be able to map out our accounts and to be able to visually represent how where we are in the deal, right, and so that's some of the things that we've done internally. You know, we found a lot of use for it is in the executive business review. Right. How often...

...did it just jokingly referred to as maybe the roast of a cell trap in front of the cells leaders or even the executive team, where they dig in on pipeline, digging on the deals and being able to visually show where we are in the deal. The prodress that we've made the understanding that we have of the account that we're targeting to get everyone on the same page and show will understanding on the rep tent of where they are in their deals. And so that's just kind of at a high level overview or a glimpse of window into how visual communication is really taking hold, and especially in our industry and especially internally here with our savings. What is the metric? I'm sure you you know it. Like x percent of people are visual learners. Isn't like eighty percent or something incredible like that? It is. It's high. Depends on the study, of course, right, if you're looking at a Harvard visity study or, depending where study, but it is definitely up there. Right. It's just notion that we communicate. You know, that cliche where a picture is worth a thousand words really does come to play. It is very high that people can communicate faster, more effectively and clearer when there's a visual component in that communication. Why do I think that? If that's true, so many people are trying to engage with their prospects in a non visual way, like I'm going to send you up block of text that you have to read digest, versus like. Let me show you a diagram of how I can add value. Why? Why do you think that is? Yeah, that's a good question. You know, I think part of it has to do with the way that we're trained, right. You look at our formal education system, going back to my comparison earlier, we're training in especially higher education, to communicate via text right, to communicate the rich format, and then, you know, with email and these communication formats, it's just kind of in our habit. We spend this time in our edge to learn to think that. We had to commute that way. So I think a lot of it is just have it. But you know, you're not the only ones thinking visually, right. You have now these video solutions where people are prospecting with video, people are prospecting using use this whole notion of for...

...selling. A lot of it is visual right. Whether you have different schools of thoughts where they're using twitter, they're using link in and they're sending a short sensts of information, sharing a photo, tagging people, I think, I think we are moving in that have everything to think in a textual format. Yeah, it's super interesting. You have any stories or examples of your reps leaching out to try to engage with someone visually. where it open the door that was previously closed or it grees the wheels on a deal, like, help me understand, like it's a yeah, a little. Like. Where has it made a difference for you? Yeah, so in some of the prospecting some of our reps have taken to using the video and I know you know we are customers of about reaches. Well, right, and so we're able to integrate that into our sequences. But some our reps use video because they like to communicate. When they communicate right, when we talk to them in person, who see their face, you see them smiling, you see their enthusiasm. It comes across really well. And so we've even seen that in some of our accounts where maybe a previous rep where is using traditional forms of prospecting, just your typical email and phone call and voice mail, and another rep takes over and she sends out a video and look, we get a response. Right. So I think that's some of the ways that we've done it. Another way is and bitter communication platform going to love us for saying this, right, but there is that component of you know, when you're meeting with that client, if possible, if it's not in person, actually doing a video conference where you can see each other spaces. We even train our reps. even if the client doesn't want to turn their video on, you turn your video on. Just a feature glimpse into some of our future initiaties here at least, it is we're looking at making it more of a mainstream practice, almost mandatory, where our reps have face time with a default to that video communication so that they, you know, bring that human element back into the sales interaction. I think with a lot of the prospecting methods that have come in, you know that have become popular recently, or even the automation right has kind of lost that human touch and I know that's something that you folks have done really well On. Right it's providing their platform for your customers where you can still include the human touch, still include...

...the research and the rapport building techniques. But that is something that we are looking to implement, as well as this notion of video conferencing so that our facial expressions and we can bring that human aspect back into our communication protocol. Yeah, I think every sales leader agrees that. You know, the noise is increasing it's more and more difficult to get in front of the people that you need to get in front of to hit your number, and we've created specialist roles and tools like outreach are making people even better at their job, which, you know, the raising tide raises all ships right in. Yeah, I think we have to come up with these different new ways of getting through the noise and helping people understand. Do you guys have any specific plays that you guys are running right now that help break through the noise that you could share with everyone? To be honest, we're also still experimenting. So I think if for you all follow up podcast, maybe in six months or a year we can actually have more concrete data. You know, just off the cuff, I can tell you that this, any time that we can try to find ways to get in front of our customers, like personally, really does speed up our deal. We do need to run metric counment, but I'll tell you this whenever we have you know, we are mainly an insight team. When I say in that team were based out of a Home Office. That's all that. We don't currently have a field team, but we are expecting. You know, we do expect the reps to get out there and get in front of the customers. They all have, each team has a healthy travel budget to get out there in front of their customers and every time you see a rep come back that, you'll see a spike in the revenue, you'll see a spike and pipeline generation, or you'll even see initial deals, initial opportunities that were created are much larger than they were and when the interaction was just done remotely in house. And so I should have more data for you later on, but I can tell you that there is an initiative to just get in front of the customer for right, be out there with the customers and even in prospecting right. I know before we even start this podcast we're just catching up and you're down there at the conference. We have a team down there as well and the team loves being out there to be able to shake hand and to be able to be in front of...

...their customers, to be able to have launch with them and to be able to interact that way. One thing it's important we think of as cells eners. Were always thinking about these ways. How can we more effectively prospect? Are Can we get in front of these customers. But I think a key also the SOB leaders think of how can we make the work that our people are engaging, how can we meet that more fulfilling for that and I think that's one of the ways is, as we explore these different formats of these different tactics and ways to prospect, is to really listen to the cell team. What are they enjoying doing? Because a lot of times what they're enjoying doing is can be one of the more effective ways to reach out and do things. Are, I'm here, smart on your end. You know it's been a whileome to cut up and what are some of the things that you've seen your team do or that you're currently working on? Yeah, well, we have an interesting play that we run. It as you know, we help sales teams process the leads that marketing generates through demo requests on their website. So when you click the hey, I want a demo, that lead comes into sales force and you know there's a varying degree of proficiency with which sales and Marketing Aligne. Across different companies and how they deal with that. So one play that we were on this really interesting is will go to a targeted account. It will fill out a demo form and we just start to clock, like how long does it take them to get back to us? What methodology do they use to get back to us? Is it automated and marketing automation? That's, you know, typically ignored and has subone ten of one percent reply rates and engagement rates? Is a phone call that happens, you know, two days later and we kind of watch what happens with that company and then we send them a report that just says, basically, this is how you stack up against industry research to best practices on how to maximize your demo requests in your inbound lead handling, and when people see where they stack up and how they operate against those best practices, it is a great way for us to begin a conversation and you know, it takes a little bit more work. It's very account base, which is a good thing, but the yields are very high on a per account basis because it really is...

...like an attention get her. So that's an example of a play that we've come up very specific for our product in our market. We had a creative rep that kind of came up with this one day started doing it, having a success, we rolled it out to a few more to make sure that you know that time investment is worth it and we've continue to find a ton of benefit and running it. So that's an example of one that we've done this work really well. That's great. That's great. You know, you did say something interesting there. You have an account base and I think that's one of the things that we're looking at twelve. We've now heard of ABM for several years, right. It's kind of a hot trend a couple years back, and this notion of account based marketing and I think we're starting to see the condition now into account spelling right, as we look at the plays that we're running, the ways that we can increase sales engagement. I think that is a fundamental piece is whatever experiment you run in your exels Org and with whatever teams you're doing, is to have that notion approachect from that account base to Sal perspective. Right as you're looking at your data, you're experimenting, as you're trying different things, keep in mind the different accounts that you're doing it, that you're working on. I think before, when I first got started my career, in. So there's just more overall. We're just looking at the overall data, overall response rates, and what tactics are we running, but I think there's something to be said about looks like in that data from an account based perspective and being able to see. You know, it was really interesting what you said. I think we're about to do something similar, but we look at the data from that perspective. So I really appreciate that. Well, GDPR is going to shut down the spray and pray methodology and for those of you that don't operate in Europe, will guess what. California is passing very similar laws in the very near future, and so you have to adjust and to continue to say, listen, well, we need to have more pipeline. Well, we need more activity, we need to go after more accounts. That strategy is going to lock you out of accounts, as GDP are and California's consumer protection laws make companies get rid of data and lockdown accounts when people ask to be opted out or ask for their data to be deleted and all that kind of stuff, so that you will...

...begin to have accounts that you need to do business in, that you will no longer have an email channel, maybe a phone channel to be able to get in touch with that account, and so we have to create ways that are higher value touches for the prospects that like. They value you the interaction. It teaches them something, it illuminates something, so that we can have a better yield on the activity in the account lows that we currently do, because continuing to increase, increase, increase in automate the I'm going to send out a thousand emails a week instead of two hundred, is just going to get you in trouble and locked out of accounts that you need to have in order to hit your number right. Right. That's a great point. And back to my comment about listening to your reps and really understanding some of the things that they enjoy doing right, making the work enjoyable for them. I think I've done correctly. Right reps not all right. I know some reps like the spray pray methodology, but a lot of the high specially the high performing reps that you talk to, they like taking the time to understand the business, to be sure ategic and to have re chective conversation. So I think while all of this is happening and understood the right way, as it's a leadership team and you can actually use that to your advantage, right, take it as an opportunity to teach yourselves her at some of this more specialized outreach, being more strategic, adding more value and having that more personal touch. So I think it can actually be a moment of opportunity, to put it for all of us in the industry. I think everybody loves being creative and creativity equals fun and it equals ownership and equals pride, and I think when you can make somebody have fun, ownership and pride of their job, they're going to love coming into work every day and you're going to get unbelievable performance out of that person and dedication and loyalty. And but just create in a robot that sits at the phone every day and gets ninety nine nose just to get the one. Yes, that's a difficult person, right, it is. It is especially very top performance or ambitious people, right, that want to find new ways, and that's a great point there. Well, Hey, you've been leading sales teams for ten years or so, Peter. I would love to know like sales engagement platforms in the terminology. Sales engagement...

...has really only started to take shape in the last two to three years and really gained a lot of steam in the last year. How do you think about things differently now in this era of sales engagement, versus before when you were just leading a sales team and talk about prospecting? Yeah, that's a great question. We talked about several things that pertains to this evolution. I think when I first started in the industry, a lot of this was nason right, this notion of data driven sales approach, having your selves processes mapped out and having a scalable, reputable process. I think I was still in the infinity and now we've all evolved. The industries evolved, not I like to think that we've all gotten a little bit smarter, and so you have a lot of technologies down the state. I can leverage that that give you. We have more visibility into data than ever that I think you know, it's one of our responsibill the ways that they change. At least second team, where I've had to change and had to evolve and to develop is to be able to implement the data correctly, to be able to have clear communication. No, one of the things that we have here that we really worked on is having clear communication protocols internally. Right, when I talking about earlier in our conversation about this, you have different teams that are working with the customer being to make sure that at each hand off the information is not lost and that everyone's actually keeping properly. That's about they change that I've seen over the years being able to have the right data for not just leadership, I think, when I think back, a lot of kinds of data was just in the leader's hands and now you have a lot of data available for the Reps. when even you mentioned right, you provide with your reps with visibility into best practices and the types of results that those best practices are yielding. I think it's important now, I tells leaders, to make sure that the reps can understand that data. Can contee the data they can, they have access and visibility to it and then they understand what it means. And so we were actually just talking about it in one of our leadership meetings this morning. Of We've need as for sales offs. Our sells off seam as has done a great job of providing data in a very digestible format for reps,...

...but we need to also implement, from the organizational standpoint, these mechanisms in place for the reps to be able to understand and digested, to have conversations around the data, because you can have now give you a more specific example. You have dash boards that are up on your floor, that available publicly to your reps, but how often are the actually looking at it and are you sure that your rests are even interpreting data the right way? And so providing those types of trainings, and we're implementing that into our training right teaching the reps how to leverage that data. What does it mean? What is it saying, and then how does that translate into things that I can change in my daily work for or in my execution to be able to act. Keep upon that. I think you can go. There's some some big changes that we've seen. It's exciting time. I think it's exciting to see we have more passion than ever in our industry. You have these whenever it's a new class of a stairs or atrs come up to the rank that I get really excited. I'm really big that to get to know me. I'm really big on approaching sales like a craft and and spending our careers mastering this craft, and it's exciting to see that that design, that passion about hunter come up through these the ranks and and so I think more than ever we have we have a more skilled, more hungry self force out there and it took help teach them the lessons that we learned earlier in our career so that they can take it even further. Yeah, that is a super interesting insight around the fact that there's more data. A lot of times that data is locked in the the board room or the leadership exact meeting. It's starting to squirm its way out into dashboards and score boards up on the sales floor, but we are necessarily empowering and teaching those reps how to interpret that data. Yet we're asking them to try to work more strategically. That's really awesome that you guys are like starting to work with your reps on how to do that, because the to Mary so well together. I mean I can totally see a rep self diagnosing or selfdiscovering something in the data that can help the entire team once they and they were able to see it, because now you have twenty eyes on the data trying to figure it out instead of just a couple.

Well, Peter, this is a very interesting conversation for me. I love the fact that we talked about the usual stuff. I think that's just something that people are talking about that when you start talking about it, kind of a comes common sense. So really appreciate your insights there. But how can people get in touch with Peter Chun if they have any other questions or what? I connect with you and kind of pick your brain. And what's the best way to get touch with you? Yeah, sure, honestly, the best way, ry most subjective, is through linkedin. Just search for me. I think it's Peter G Chun, and I'm at least a software and I've got my contacting for there. But if you you can even just send me a direct message and I'm trying to be pretty good about responding. So that's one of the best ways to get in touch with me. Great. Well, I thanks so much for the information the great discussion. Peter. It is great talking to you again and we'll catch you again soon. Hows I say? Well, likewise, mark, thank you so much for having me. Is An honor to be a guest on your podcast and you folks are doing great things. Keep up the good work and we'll keep in touch. Thanks so much when thanks everybody for listening to this episode of the sales engagement podcast. Will see you next time. This was another episode of the sales engagement podcast. Join US at sales engagementcom or new episodes. Resources and the book on sales engagement coming soon. To get the most out of your sales engagement strategy, make sure to check out outreached I oh, the leading sales and theusement Plat. See you on the next episode.

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