The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

Using Visual Communication To Create A Spike In Pipeline And Increase Employee Engagement w/ Peter Chun

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Peter Chun, VP of Sales at Lucidchart, tells us how he’s using visual communications to increase the efficiency and effectiveness of both sales and employee engagement in this week’s episode. Tune in as he and Mark give great insight into the impacts and implications of true face time and visual tech.

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast.This podcast is brought to you by outreach dot I oh, the leading salesengagement platform helping companies, sellers and customer success engage with fires and customers inthe modern sales era. Check out sales engagementcom for new episodes, resources andthe book on sales engagement coming soon. Now let's get into today's episode.Hey everyone, welcome to the sales engagement podcast. It's me, more costaglowin the VP of sales at outreach, and today I'm going to have anawesome conversation with Peter Chun. Peter, why don't you introduce yourself? Heyeveryone, I love how everyone. I feel well, how, because I'mfrom Honolula, Hawaii, originally, currently the VP of self here at lucidsoftware, lucid chart cool. Tell us a little bit about what lucid,Peter, so good, you guys so here? Yeah, yeah, so, here in Lucid we are striving to provide the meeting cloud based visual productivityplatform, and the idea behind it is that we're trying to innovate the waythat companies communicate, and they communicate visually right into how did the company INNOVAT. How do they communicate? We scribe to provide that platform for our clientsand you know are use cases is very broad, anywhere from it and engineering, our original you the case, all the way to marketing HR and nowthere's a big focus on sale. I think you'll see us a lot morein the sales community as we've tailored our solution to really help sells reps self, leaders, tells, operations, sels, engineers leverage our platform to be ableto succeed in their selfcools. And one reason I wanted to bring Peterin on the podcast is lucid charts is one of the fastest growing companies,or a darling of silicon slopes, and he's been tasked with not only leadinghis closers and revenue generating team, but also he works with this and leasySDR team that kind of helps to queue...

...up the meetings in the pipeline forhis closers to turn into revenue, and so it's super interesting to me tohave someone like that that runs all the full cycle to kind of talk aboutsales engagement. But something you just said, Peter, intrigued me. Said aboutwe want to take people from communicating the way they do now to doingit more visually. I would love to know if you have anything that you'retesting out or trying or that's worked where you've used visual engagement to help withyour sales engagement of their your prospectors in your sales reps. versus, justtypical like Hey, I'm going to write an email. Hope somebody reads it. Right, right, if that, that's a great point. Mark,you talked about there. You know, you think about the way I liketo explain it to some of our new reps. you think about as you'regrowing up, like if you're to google type and do a google search andlook up the element, try school classroom, right, and which will pull upin your images is colorful classroom, a lot of shapes, a lotof visual learning going on. And then you look at like if you're tolook up a college lecture hall, Right, it's a very start. You you'dpull up. Commonly you'd find this stark room which is projector up front, and usually the homework is like a we this text. And then andthe whole idea is that we communicate visually, right, is give directions or explaina complex concept idea. And finally, the joke is I hey, youneed to draw a picture for you. So it says pins phenomena that wesee here, even internally with our sell team, right, as wework these deals, complex deals, and you have different teams working right intoday's Day and age, especially in tech, the to be sad, sales,you have a team of people on your cell side, right, whetherthey're your self, engineers, your self development, account development, your closers, even your product or where your marketing teams that are involved in working thesedeals, and so there's this need to communicate a lot of information and sowe use it internally, Solution Lucy Charts, to be able to map out ouraccounts and to be able to visually represent how where we are in thedeal, right, and so that's some of the things that we've done internally. You know, we found a lot of use for it is in theexecutive business review. Right. How often...

...did it just jokingly referred to asmaybe the roast of a cell trap in front of the cells leaders or eventhe executive team, where they dig in on pipeline, digging on the dealsand being able to visually show where we are in the deal. The prodressthat we've made the understanding that we have of the account that we're targeting toget everyone on the same page and show will understanding on the rep tent ofwhere they are in their deals. And so that's just kind of at ahigh level overview or a glimpse of window into how visual communication is really takinghold, and especially in our industry and especially internally here with our savings.What is the metric? I'm sure you you know it. Like x percentof people are visual learners. Isn't like eighty percent or something incredible like that? It is. It's high. Depends on the study, of course,right, if you're looking at a Harvard visity study or, depending where study, but it is definitely up there. Right. It's just notion that wecommunicate. You know, that cliche where a picture is worth a thousand wordsreally does come to play. It is very high that people can communicate faster, more effectively and clearer when there's a visual component in that communication. Whydo I think that? If that's true, so many people are trying to engagewith their prospects in a non visual way, like I'm going to sendyou up block of text that you have to read digest, versus like.Let me show you a diagram of how I can add value. Why?Why do you think that is? Yeah, that's a good question. You know, I think part of it has to do with the way that we'retrained, right. You look at our formal education system, going back tomy comparison earlier, we're training in especially higher education, to communicate via textright, to communicate the rich format, and then, you know, withemail and these communication formats, it's just kind of in our habit. Wespend this time in our edge to learn to think that. We had tocommute that way. So I think a lot of it is just have it. But you know, you're not the only ones thinking visually, right.You have now these video solutions where people are prospecting with video, people areprospecting using use this whole notion of for...

...selling. A lot of it isvisual right. Whether you have different schools of thoughts where they're using twitter,they're using link in and they're sending a short sensts of information, sharing aphoto, tagging people, I think, I think we are moving in thathave everything to think in a textual format. Yeah, it's super interesting. Youhave any stories or examples of your reps leaching out to try to engagewith someone visually. where it open the door that was previously closed or itgrees the wheels on a deal, like, help me understand, like it's ayeah, a little. Like. Where has it made a difference foryou? Yeah, so in some of the prospecting some of our reps havetaken to using the video and I know you know we are customers of aboutreaches. Well, right, and so we're able to integrate that into oursequences. But some our reps use video because they like to communicate. Whenthey communicate right, when we talk to them in person, who see theirface, you see them smiling, you see their enthusiasm. It comes acrossreally well. And so we've even seen that in some of our accounts wheremaybe a previous rep where is using traditional forms of prospecting, just your typicalemail and phone call and voice mail, and another rep takes over and shesends out a video and look, we get a response. Right. SoI think that's some of the ways that we've done it. Another way isand bitter communication platform going to love us for saying this, right, butthere is that component of you know, when you're meeting with that client,if possible, if it's not in person, actually doing a video conference where youcan see each other spaces. We even train our reps. even ifthe client doesn't want to turn their video on, you turn your video on. Just a feature glimpse into some of our future initiaties here at least,it is we're looking at making it more of a mainstream practice, almost mandatory, where our reps have face time with a default to that video communication sothat they, you know, bring that human element back into the sales interaction. I think with a lot of the prospecting methods that have come in,you know that have become popular recently, or even the automation right has kindof lost that human touch and I know that's something that you folks have donereally well On. Right it's providing their platform for your customers where you canstill include the human touch, still include...

...the research and the rapport building techniques. But that is something that we are looking to implement, as well asthis notion of video conferencing so that our facial expressions and we can bring thathuman aspect back into our communication protocol. Yeah, I think every sales leaderagrees that. You know, the noise is increasing it's more and more difficultto get in front of the people that you need to get in front ofto hit your number, and we've created specialist roles and tools like outreach aremaking people even better at their job, which, you know, the raisingtide raises all ships right in. Yeah, I think we have to come upwith these different new ways of getting through the noise and helping people understand. Do you guys have any specific plays that you guys are running right nowthat help break through the noise that you could share with everyone? To behonest, we're also still experimenting. So I think if for you all followup podcast, maybe in six months or a year we can actually have moreconcrete data. You know, just off the cuff, I can tell youthat this, any time that we can try to find ways to get infront of our customers, like personally, really does speed up our deal.We do need to run metric counment, but I'll tell you this whenever wehave you know, we are mainly an insight team. When I say inthat team were based out of a Home Office. That's all that. Wedon't currently have a field team, but we are expecting. You know,we do expect the reps to get out there and get in front of thecustomers. They all have, each team has a healthy travel budget to getout there in front of their customers and every time you see a rep comeback that, you'll see a spike in the revenue, you'll see a spikeand pipeline generation, or you'll even see initial deals, initial opportunities that werecreated are much larger than they were and when the interaction was just done remotelyin house. And so I should have more data for you later on,but I can tell you that there is an initiative to just get in frontof the customer for right, be out there with the customers and even inprospecting right. I know before we even start this podcast we're just catching upand you're down there at the conference. We have a team down there aswell and the team loves being out there to be able to shake hand andto be able to be in front of...

...their customers, to be able tohave launch with them and to be able to interact that way. One thingit's important we think of as cells eners. Were always thinking about these ways.How can we more effectively prospect? Are Can we get in front ofthese customers. But I think a key also the SOB leaders think of howcan we make the work that our people are engaging, how can we meetthat more fulfilling for that and I think that's one of the ways is,as we explore these different formats of these different tactics and ways to prospect,is to really listen to the cell team. What are they enjoying doing? Becausea lot of times what they're enjoying doing is can be one of themore effective ways to reach out and do things. Are, I'm here,smart on your end. You know it's been a whileome to cut up andwhat are some of the things that you've seen your team do or that you'recurrently working on? Yeah, well, we have an interesting play that werun. It as you know, we help sales teams process the leads thatmarketing generates through demo requests on their website. So when you click the hey,I want a demo, that lead comes into sales force and you knowthere's a varying degree of proficiency with which sales and Marketing Aligne. Across differentcompanies and how they deal with that. So one play that we were onthis really interesting is will go to a targeted account. It will fill outa demo form and we just start to clock, like how long does ittake them to get back to us? What methodology do they use to getback to us? Is it automated and marketing automation? That's, you know, typically ignored and has subone ten of one percent reply rates and engagement rates? Is a phone call that happens, you know, two days later andwe kind of watch what happens with that company and then we send them areport that just says, basically, this is how you stack up against industryresearch to best practices on how to maximize your demo requests in your inbound leadhandling, and when people see where they stack up and how they operate againstthose best practices, it is a great way for us to begin a conversationand you know, it takes a little bit more work. It's very accountbase, which is a good thing, but the yields are very high ona per account basis because it really is...

...like an attention get her. Sothat's an example of a play that we've come up very specific for our productin our market. We had a creative rep that kind of came up withthis one day started doing it, having a success, we rolled it outto a few more to make sure that you know that time investment is worthit and we've continue to find a ton of benefit and running it. Sothat's an example of one that we've done this work really well. That's great. That's great. You know, you did say something interesting there. Youhave an account base and I think that's one of the things that we're lookingat twelve. We've now heard of ABM for several years, right. It'skind of a hot trend a couple years back, and this notion of accountbased marketing and I think we're starting to see the condition now into account spellingright, as we look at the plays that we're running, the ways thatwe can increase sales engagement. I think that is a fundamental piece is whateverexperiment you run in your exels Org and with whatever teams you're doing, isto have that notion approachect from that account base to Sal perspective. Right asyou're looking at your data, you're experimenting, as you're trying different things, keepin mind the different accounts that you're doing it, that you're working on. I think before, when I first got started my career, in.So there's just more overall. We're just looking at the overall data, overallresponse rates, and what tactics are we running, but I think there's somethingto be said about looks like in that data from an account based perspective andbeing able to see. You know, it was really interesting what you said. I think we're about to do something similar, but we look at thedata from that perspective. So I really appreciate that. Well, GDPR isgoing to shut down the spray and pray methodology and for those of you thatdon't operate in Europe, will guess what. California is passing very similar laws inthe very near future, and so you have to adjust and to continueto say, listen, well, we need to have more pipeline. Well, we need more activity, we need to go after more accounts. Thatstrategy is going to lock you out of accounts, as GDP are and California'sconsumer protection laws make companies get rid of data and lockdown accounts when people askto be opted out or ask for their data to be deleted and all thatkind of stuff, so that you will...

...begin to have accounts that you needto do business in, that you will no longer have an email channel,maybe a phone channel to be able to get in touch with that account,and so we have to create ways that are higher value touches for the prospectsthat like. They value you the interaction. It teaches them something, it illuminatessomething, so that we can have a better yield on the activity inthe account lows that we currently do, because continuing to increase, increase,increase in automate the I'm going to send out a thousand emails a week insteadof two hundred, is just going to get you in trouble and locked outof accounts that you need to have in order to hit your number right.Right. That's a great point. And back to my comment about listening toyour reps and really understanding some of the things that they enjoy doing right,making the work enjoyable for them. I think I've done correctly. Right repsnot all right. I know some reps like the spray pray methodology, buta lot of the high specially the high performing reps that you talk to,they like taking the time to understand the business, to be sure ategic andto have re chective conversation. So I think while all of this is happeningand understood the right way, as it's a leadership team and you can actuallyuse that to your advantage, right, take it as an opportunity to teachyourselves her at some of this more specialized outreach, being more strategic, addingmore value and having that more personal touch. So I think it can actually bea moment of opportunity, to put it for all of us in theindustry. I think everybody loves being creative and creativity equals fun and it equalsownership and equals pride, and I think when you can make somebody have fun, ownership and pride of their job, they're going to love coming into workevery day and you're going to get unbelievable performance out of that person and dedicationand loyalty. And but just create in a robot that sits at the phoneevery day and gets ninety nine nose just to get the one. Yes,that's a difficult person, right, it is. It is especially very topperformance or ambitious people, right, that want to find new ways, andthat's a great point there. Well, Hey, you've been leading sales teamsfor ten years or so, Peter. I would love to know like salesengagement platforms in the terminology. Sales engagement...

...has really only started to take shapein the last two to three years and really gained a lot of steam inthe last year. How do you think about things differently now in this eraof sales engagement, versus before when you were just leading a sales team andtalk about prospecting? Yeah, that's a great question. We talked about severalthings that pertains to this evolution. I think when I first started in theindustry, a lot of this was nason right, this notion of data drivensales approach, having your selves processes mapped out and having a scalable, reputableprocess. I think I was still in the infinity and now we've all evolved. The industries evolved, not I like to think that we've all gotten alittle bit smarter, and so you have a lot of technologies down the state. I can leverage that that give you. We have more visibility into data thanever that I think you know, it's one of our responsibill the waysthat they change. At least second team, where I've had to change and hadto evolve and to develop is to be able to implement the data correctly, to be able to have clear communication. No, one of the things thatwe have here that we really worked on is having clear communication protocols internally. Right, when I talking about earlier in our conversation about this, youhave different teams that are working with the customer being to make sure that ateach hand off the information is not lost and that everyone's actually keeping properly.That's about they change that I've seen over the years being able to have theright data for not just leadership, I think, when I think back,a lot of kinds of data was just in the leader's hands and now youhave a lot of data available for the Reps. when even you mentioned right, you provide with your reps with visibility into best practices and the types ofresults that those best practices are yielding. I think it's important now, Itells leaders, to make sure that the reps can understand that data. Cancontee the data they can, they have access and visibility to it and thenthey understand what it means. And so we were actually just talking about itin one of our leadership meetings this morning. Of We've need as for sales offs. Our sells off seam as has done a great job of providing datain a very digestible format for reps,...

...but we need to also implement,from the organizational standpoint, these mechanisms in place for the reps to be ableto understand and digested, to have conversations around the data, because you canhave now give you a more specific example. You have dash boards that are upon your floor, that available publicly to your reps, but how oftenare the actually looking at it and are you sure that your rests are eveninterpreting data the right way? And so providing those types of trainings, andwe're implementing that into our training right teaching the reps how to leverage that data. What does it mean? What is it saying, and then how doesthat translate into things that I can change in my daily work for or inmy execution to be able to act. Keep upon that. I think youcan go. There's some some big changes that we've seen. It's exciting time. I think it's exciting to see we have more passion than ever in ourindustry. You have these whenever it's a new class of a stairs or atrscome up to the rank that I get really excited. I'm really big thatto get to know me. I'm really big on approaching sales like a craftand and spending our careers mastering this craft, and it's exciting to see that thatdesign, that passion about hunter come up through these the ranks and andso I think more than ever we have we have a more skilled, morehungry self force out there and it took help teach them the lessons that welearned earlier in our career so that they can take it even further. Yeah, that is a super interesting insight around the fact that there's more data.A lot of times that data is locked in the the board room or theleadership exact meeting. It's starting to squirm its way out into dashboards and scoreboards up on the sales floor, but we are necessarily empowering and teaching thosereps how to interpret that data. Yet we're asking them to try to workmore strategically. That's really awesome that you guys are like starting to work withyour reps on how to do that, because the to Mary so well together. I mean I can totally see a rep self diagnosing or selfdiscovering something inthe data that can help the entire team once they and they were able tosee it, because now you have twenty eyes on the data trying to figureit out instead of just a couple.

Well, Peter, this is avery interesting conversation for me. I love the fact that we talked about theusual stuff. I think that's just something that people are talking about that whenyou start talking about it, kind of a comes common sense. So reallyappreciate your insights there. But how can people get in touch with Peter Chunif they have any other questions or what? I connect with you and kind ofpick your brain. And what's the best way to get touch with you? Yeah, sure, honestly, the best way, ry most subjective,is through linkedin. Just search for me. I think it's Peter G Chun,and I'm at least a software and I've got my contacting for there.But if you you can even just send me a direct message and I'm tryingto be pretty good about responding. So that's one of the best ways toget in touch with me. Great. Well, I thanks so much forthe information the great discussion. Peter. It is great talking to you againand we'll catch you again soon. Hows I say? Well, likewise,mark, thank you so much for having me. Is An honor to bea guest on your podcast and you folks are doing great things. Keep upthe good work and we'll keep in touch. Thanks so much when thanks everybody forlistening to this episode of the sales engagement podcast. Will see you nexttime. This was another episode of the sales engagement podcast. Join US atsales engagementcom or new episodes. Resources and the book on sales engagement coming soon. To get the most out of your sales engagement strategy, make sure tocheck out outreached I oh, the leading sales and theusement Plat. See youon the next episode.

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