The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

Using Visual Communication To Create A Spike In Pipeline And Increase Employee Engagement w/ Peter Chun

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Peter Chun, VP of Sales at Lucidchart, tells us how he’s using visual communications to increase the efficiency and effectiveness of both sales and employee engagement in this week’s episode. Tune in as he and Mark give great insight into the impacts and implications of true face time and visual tech.

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast,this podcast had brought you my outreach Otaio leading sales of EsenPLATF, oping companies, sellers and customer success engaged with fires andcustomers, an the modern sales ero check out sales, a GNCOM for newepisodes, resources and the book on sales and Gagemen coming soon. Now,let's get into today's episode Han everyone welcome to the salesengagement podcast, that's name more costantly on the VP sales atd outreach,and today I'm going to have an awesome conversation with Peter Chun PeterWhatdin't. You O introduce yourself and everyone. I will everyone. I say Lobecause I'm from Hannowoo Hawaii originally currently the vpself here atLucid sockwar, at least a chart cool tels a little bit about what lucid doesPeter so good you Hav, so ere yeah eah. So here at Lesa, we arestriving to provide the leading cloud base, visual productivity platform andthe idea behind it is that we're trying to innovate the way that companiescommunicate and they commutted visually right. And so how does the companyIntervet? How do they communicate? We strive to provide that platform for ourclient, and you know, or use cases, is very broad anywhere from iteenengineering, our original usecase, all the way to marketing HR and now there'sa big focus on sale. I think Lyou'll see us a lot more in the safescommunity, as we've tailored our solution to really help selse repsselfleaders, selth operations, Seles engineers leverage our platform to beable to succeed in their self schools, and one reason I wanted to bring Peterin on the podcast is Lucy. Charts is one of the fastest growing companies ora darling of silicon slopes, and he's been tasked with not only leading hisclosers and revenue generating team, but also he works with this and LASSDRteam. That kind of helps to he up the...

...meetings and the pipeline for hisclosers to turn into revenue, and so it's super interesting to me to havesomeone like that. That runs all the full cycle to kind of talk about salesengagement, but something you just said, Peter Intrigue me you said about. Wewant to take people from communicating the way they do now to doing it. Morevisually, I would love to know if you have anything that you're testing outor trying or that's worked, where you've used visual engagement to helpwith your sales engagement of their ow, your prospectors, an your selves, rapsversus just typical, like Hey, I'm, going to write an email andhopesomebody reads it right, right, yef that that's a greatpoint ware! You talk about ther. You know you think about the way I like toexplain it to somewhere new reps. you think about that you're growing up likean your a gool, I can do a Google search and look up that elementaryschool classroom right and what you pull up in your images is clisfulclassroom a lot of shapes, a lot of visual learning going on, and then youlook at it like if you're, to look up a college, Let Your Hall Right! It's avery start! You pull up commonly you find this stark room which is projectoruptringing and usually the homework is likekay read this text and the and thewhole idea is that we would communicate vusually right, git directions orexplain a complex concept or idea. And finally, the joke is bi. Hey. You needto draw a picture for you, so it's Ta, Tane, Phenomenan, that we see here eveninternally with ourselv right as we work, hes deal comflict filld and youhave different teams working right in today's Day and age, especially in tech,bt B, sat sales. You have a team of people on your self side right that,whether they're yourself egineers your so development account development,your closers, even your product or more your marketing teams that are involvedin looking he steels and so there's. This need to communicate a lot ofinformation, and so we use it internally on our own solution. Wecechart to be able to map out our accounts and to be able to visuallyrepresent how where we are in the deal, but so that's one of the thing thatwe've done in certainly you know we found a lot of use for it in theExecutive Business Review Right. How...

...often did it just you know? jokinlyrefer to is maybe the roast of the sell trap in front of the Telt fleaders orenthing Teg de cips, where they dig in on Pyphind bigin on the deal and beingable to visually show wherearin the deal, the prodress that we've made theunderstanding that we have of the account that we're targeting to geteveryone on the same page and show real understanding on the Reptin of wherethey are in their deals, and so that's just kind of an high level overview orglimps of window into how visual communication is really taking hold,and especially in our industry and and especially internal. We here withourselpins. What is the metric? I'm sure you you know at like X. percent ofpeople are visual learners. Is it like eighty percent or something ncrediblelike that? It it's high depends on the study, of course right if you'relooking at Harvar, busre study or depending which study, but it isdefinitely up there right. It's just notion that we communicate. You knowthat Cliche, where a picture is worth a thousand words really does come, but itis very high that people can communicate faster, more effectivelyand clearer when there's a visual component in that communication. Why doI think that, if that's true, so many people are trying to engage with theirprospects in a non visual way like I'm going to send you a lock of text andyou have to reddigest versus like? Let me show you a diagram, that's how I canadd value. Why d? Why do you think that is yeah? That's a good question! You know,I think part of it has to do with the way that we're trained right. You lookat our formal education system. Going back to my comparison earlier weretraining in especially in higher education, to communicate tea textright to communicate, tethe, Ri, Rice format, and then you know with emailand these communication formats it's just kind of in our habit. We spendthis time in our EGE to learn to think that way. Anto communcite. That way, soI think a lot of its just have it, but you know you were not the only onesthinking visually right. You have now these video solutions where people areprostecting, the vidio people are prospectig using this whole notion offorselling. A lot of it is visual right.

Where theyre you have different schoolsof thoughts where they're using twitter they're using link in and they'resending no short senses of information sharing a photo taking people. I thinkI think we are moving in that have everything to think in tepxual format.Yeah. I super interesting. You have any stories or examples of your reps reaching out totry to engage with someone visually where it opened a door that waspreviously closed or it greezed the wheels on a deal like help meunderstand like at the Daer O knol like where has it made a difference for you, yeah O in some of the prospecting someof Er repssit had taken to using the video, and I know you know we arecustomers about Rach as well rightand, so we're able to integrate that intoour sequences. But them are reps use video because they like to communicatewhen they communicate right when talk to them in person, Yo see their bas,you see them smiling. You see their thusiasm, it comes across really well,and so we've EVN'n seen that m some of our accounts, where maybe a previousREP wereis using traditional forms of prospecting, just mow your typicalemail and one calln boy smell and another rep piks over and she send outa video and Lok. We get a response right O. I think that some of the waysthat we've done it another way is- and Tier Communication plafor going to loveus for saying this right, but there is that componiant of you know when you'remeeting with that client is possible. If it's not in person, actually doing avideo conference where you can see each other's faces. We even train our reps,even if the client doesn't want to turn their video on. You know turn your vityon just a feature glimt into some of our fuature and ishuds. Here, at leastit is we're looking at making it more of a mainstream practice, almostmandatory, where I reps have fasetime with a default to that videocommunication, so that they, you know, bring that human element back into thesales interaction. I think with a lot of the procecting methods that havecome in. You know that Hav become popular recently or even the automation, right, Ha kindof lost that human touch, and I know that somehing that you folks have beenreally well on right, is providing yeur platfurm for your customers, where youcould still include the human touch,...

...still include the research and thereport building techniques, but that is something that we are looking toampomen as well, as is this notion of video conferencing, so that our facialexpressions nd and we can bring that human aspect back into ourcommunication protocol yeah. I think every sales leader agrees that you knowthe noise is increasing, it's more and more difficult to get in front of thepeople that you need to get in front of to hit your number and Yo. We'vecreated, P loss roles and tools like outreach, are making people even betterat their job, which you know the raising tide raises all ships right andyea. I think we have to come up with thesedifferent new ways of getting through the noise and helping people understand.Do you guys have any specific plays that you guys are running right nowthat help break through annoyes that you could share with everyone? To behonest, we're also still experimenting, so I think I wer you a follow uppodcast. Maybe in six months or a year we I can actually have more concretedata. You know just off the cup. I can tell you that thes any time that we cantry to find ways to get in front of our customers. Like personally, really doesspeed up our deal. We do need to run metrics on it. But I'll tell you this.Whenever we have, you know we are mainly an intide team. When I say in TaTumor Bass, out of a hom oftis INS, sal Ik, we don't currently have a fiel peap,but we are expectedg. You know we do, expect the reps to get out there andget it from the customers they all have. Each team has o healthy travel budgetrigh to get out there in front of their customers, and every time you see,acome back that you'll see a spike in the revenue F. He is piking. Pihtbyngeneration or you'll even see initial deals. Initial opertities that werecreated are much larger than they were when the interaction was just doneremotely in house, and so I should have morn data for you later on, but I cantell you that there is an initiative to just get in front of the Cuptum forright, be out there with the customers and even in prospectivg right. I knowbefore we eveen tarted this podcast we're just catching up and you're downthere at the conference, and we have a team down there as well, and the teamloves being out there to be able to...

...shake hands and to be able to be infront of their customers to be ble, to have lunch with them and to beable tointeract that way. One thing it's important, we think of as Sellsan years.We're always thinking about these ways. How can we more effectively propect?How can we get in front of these customers, but I think a key, also theSovieters, to think of how can we make the work that our people are engage ing?How can we make that more fulfilling? For that- and I think that's one of theways is as we explore these different formats or these different tactics andways to prospect is to really listen to the self team. What are they enjoyidoing, because a lot of times what they're enjoying doing is, can be oneof the more effective ways to reach out n? Do Things AC, I'm sure smart on your,and you know it's been a while since wo cut up and what are some of the thingsthat you've seen your team do ar or that you're currently working on yeah?Well, we have an interesting play that we run it. As you know, we help salesteams process the leads that marketing generates through demo requests ontheir website. So when you click the hey, I wan a demmo that lead comes intosales force and you know there's a varying degree of proficiency withwhich sales in marketing ha line across different companies and how they dealwith that. So one play that we were on thit's really interesting is we'll goto a targeted account. It will fill out a demo form and we just start the clocklike how long does it take them to get back to us? What methodology do theyuse to get back to us? Is it automated ind marketing, automation? That's younow typically ignored and has sub one ten of one percent reply rates andengageent rates is a a phone call that happens. You know two days later and wekind of watch what happens with that company and then we send them a reportthat just says. Basically, this is how you stack up against industry researchto best practices on how to maximize your Dema request in your imbound leadhandling and when people see where they stack up and how they operate againstthose best practices. It is a great way for us to begin a conversation, and youknow it takes a little bit more work, asvary account based, which is a goodthing, but the yields are very high on a per account basis because it reallyis like an attention getter. So that's...

...an example of a play that we've come upvery specific for our product in our market. We had a creative rep that kindof came up with this one day started doing it having a success. We e rolledit out to a few more to make sure that you know that time. Investment is worthit and we've continued to find a ton of benefit and running it. So that's anexample of one that we've done this work really well Ka. That's great, that's great, youknow did say something interesting there you have it account base and Ithink that's one of the things that we're looking atter twelve we've nowheard of ABM for several years, right, itwas kind of the hot trend a coupleyears back ind this notion of account base marketing and I think, we'restarting to see the transition now andto accomnpany selling. Right as welook at the plays that we're running the ways that we can increase. Thoseengagement. I think that is a a fundamental piece is whateverexperiment you run in your exels ord and with whatever teams you're doing isto have that notion approach it from that account based tals perspectiveright if you're, looking at Your Dad as you'r experimenting, is you're tryingto gen things, keep in mind the different accounts that you're doing itthat you're workng on I think before when I first got startid my career andTso, there's just more overall we're just looking at the overall dataoverall response rates and what tactics are we running, but I think there'ssomething to be said about Wat lecting, that data from an account baseperspective a being able to see you know it was really interesting whet.You said that I think we're about to do something similar, but we look at thedata from that that perspective. So I really appreciate that. Well, GDPR isgoing to shut down the spray and pray methodology and for those of you thatdon't operate in Europe, will guess what California is passing very similarlaws in the very near future. And so you have to adjust and to continue tosay, listen when we need to have more pipeline Wel, we need more activity. Weneed to go after more accounts. That strategy is going to lock you out ofaccounts as GDPR and Californias consumer protection laws make companiesget rid of data and lock down accounts when people ask to be opted out or askfor their Nada to be deleted and all...

...that kind of stuff, so that you willbegin to have accounts that you need to do business soon, that you will nolonger have an email channel, maybe a phone channel to be able to get intouch with that account. And so we have to create ways that ar higher valuetouches for the prospects that, like they value the interaction, it teachesthem something it illuminates something so that we can have a better yield onthe activity and the account lows that we currently do because continuing toincrease increaseincrease an automate, I'm going to send ot a thousand emailsa week instead of two hundred is just going to get you in trouble and lockedout of account that you need to have in order to hit your number right right. Yeah, that's a great pointand back to my comment about missing, teer, reps and really understandingsome of the things that they enjoy doing right, making the work enjoyablefor them. I think hatv done correctly right, rep, not all RIAHT. I know somerats like the sprayin pray methodology, but a lot of the high spociy, the highperforming reps that you talk to. They like taking the time to understand thebusiness and to be strategic and to have affecteve conversation. So I thinkwhil a on this is happening and understood the right way. Os E, soleadership team, and you can actually use that to your advantage right, takeit as an opportunity to teach yourselves or at some of this morespecialized outreach being more SHETIGEC, any more value and havingthat more personal touch. So I think it can actually be a moment of opportunityor t for all of us in the industry. I think everybody loves being creativeand creativity equals fun and it equals ownership and it equals pride, and Ithink, when you can make somebody have fun ownership and pride of their job,they're, going to love coming into work every day and you're going to getunbelievable performance out of that person and dedication and loyalty, andbut just creating a robot that sits at the phone every day and gets ninetynine nose just to get the one. Yes, that's a difficult m right: it Isit is especially foryo topperformantor and dishes people right that want to find new ways. That's agreat point. There wellhey you've been leading sales teams for ten years or soPeter. I would love to know like sales...

...engagement platforms and theterminologogy sles engagement has really only started to take shape inthe last two to three years and really gaine a lot of steam in the last year.How do you think about things differently now, in this era of salesengagement versus before, when you were just leading a sales team and Talkinabout prospecting? Yeah, that's a great question: We talk about several things:the pertains to this evolution. I think when I first started in the industry. Alot of this was Nasen right. This notion of data driven selfs approachhaving yourselves processes, mapped out and having a scalable repeatableprocess. I think that was still in it. Infant and now we've all evolved theinistries of ball. No, I like to think thatwe've all gotten a little bitsmarter, and so you have a lot of technologies now in the space that canleverage that that can give Yo. We have more visibility into dia than ever that.I think you know it's one of our responsible. The way S that that change,rearly second Ta, where Ie had to change and have to evolve and todevelop, is to be able to implement the data correctly to able to have creatcommunication y know. One of the things that we have here that we really workedon is having clear communication protocalls internally, but when I wastalking about earlier in our conversation about this, he havedifferent teams that are working with the customer being to make sure thatthat each hanoff information is not lost and that everyone to exxecutingproperly think that's Abon big, the change that I've seen over the yearsbeing able to have the right data for not just leadership. I think when Ithink that a lot of times he data was just in the leaders hands and now youhave a lot of data veble for the ret, like even you mentioned right, youprovide t your reps with visibility into best practices and the types ofresult Thof those best practices are yielding. I think it's important now.It's help eaters to make sure that the rest can understand that data canICANTU the data they can. They have access an visibility to it and thenthey understand what it beats, and so we were actually just talking about itin one of our leadership meeting this morning of Weve, you dash were stillops ourselves, Ov Sam, an that has done a great job of providing did in a verydigestible format par reps, but we need...

...to also implement from theorganizational tandpoint these mechanisms and Playe for the reps to beable to understand and bijust have conversations around the Dida, becauseyou can have now give you a more scecifiy example. You have daashwordsthat are up on your floor, that available publicly to your rets, buthow often are hey actually looking at it, and are you sure that your restsare even interpreting data, the right way and so providing those types oftrainings and more implementing that into our training right teaching therept? HOW TO LEVERAGE TAT data? What does it mean? What is it saying, andthen how does that translate into things that I can change? In my dealy wwork for or in my execution to be able to conpute upon that, I think I thinkthose arre some some big changes that we've seen it's exciting time. I thinkit's exciting to see. We have more passion than ever in our industry. Youhave these minneraton new class of best tairs or atrs come up to the rankhar. Iget really excited I', really big. Now O get to mome, I'm really big! On napproaching sales like the craft and spending our careers mastering thiscraft, and it's exciting to see that that desire that passion of that hundercome up to these the rank and- and so I think more than ever, we've had we havea more skilled, more hungry self force out there and it's to help teach themthe lessons that that we learned earlier in our career so that they canpake it even further yeah. That is a super interesting insight around thefact that there's more data a lot of times thatdata is locked in the boardroom or the leadership exact meeting its startingto squirm its way out into dashfords and scoreboards up on the sale floor,but we aren't necessarily empowering and teaching those raps how tointerpret that data yet or asking them to try to work more strategically.That's really awesome that you guys are like starting to work with your weps onon how to do that, because the two marry so well together, I mean I cantotally see arept, selfdiagnosing or self discovering something in the datathat can help the entire team once they and they were able to see it becausethey, you have twenty eyes on the day, they'e trying to figure it out insteadof just a couple. Well Peter. This was...

...a very interesting conversation for me.I love the fact that we talkd about the diual stuff. I think that's justsomething that people aren't talking about that when you start talking aboutit kind of becomes common sense, so really appreciate your insights there.But how can people get in touch with Peter Chon if they have any otherquestions or one ta connect with you and kind of pick, your brain and what'sthe best way to in touch with you, yeah sure, honestly, the best way IMMOsubfective is through Lincoln, just search for me. I think it's Peter GChun and I'm at Leasit software and I've got my contact in for there. Butif you can even just send me a direct message and I'm I try to be pretty goodabout it, responding. So that's one of the best ways to get in touch with megreat. Well, I thank so much for the information, the Great Discussion Peter.It was great talking to you again and we'll catch again soon, OAS that saywell likewise mark. Thank you so much for having me is and honor to be aguest on your podcast and you folks are doing great things, keep up the goodwork and we'll keep in touch. Thank so much when thanks everybody forlistening to this episode of the sales engagement podcast well see next time.This was another episode of the Sales Agagement podcast Jonus at sales,engagementcom or new episodes, resources and the book on salesagagement coming Toh to get the most out of your sales and gating strategy,make sure to check out out reach Io, leading sales and meatcl plot. So youon the next episode.

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