The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

Three Ways to Effectively Engage with Anyone in Conversation w/ Richard Harris

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

ALERT: Double-Length Extraordinary Episode hosted by Sales Hacker's Scott Barker! 

Richard Harris is one of our favorite people to sit down with. Before branching out on his own to start The Harris Consulting Group, Richard spent many years building SDR teams and running sales operations. He’s been immersed in sales culture long enough to hold a wealth of knowledge that he’s always willing to share.

He even began his interview on The Sales Engagement podcast with a great sales tip: what he calls the question behind the question. A method to better understand someone’s perspective and intention when they ask you a question.

He told us, “whenever someone asks you a question, there’s always a picture in their head. Ask them to paint that picture.” So when I asked him how he sees sales engagement changing between sellers and buyers today, he asked me, “when you said that word sales engagement, what picture was going through your head?” Thrown off for a second, I quickly answered, “a handshake.”

The result? Richard knew exactly what I meant by sales engagement. I wasn’t asking about tech stack, I was trying to get to the human element in sales, and Richard’s question got us there. Our conversation on today’s episodes is filled with techniques like this one to make you a better communicator and engage your customers more effectively.

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast,this podcast is brought to you by out reached at io the leading salesengagement platform, helping companies, sellers and customer success engagedwith buyers and customers in the modern sales era, check out salesengagementcom for new episodes, resources in the book on salesengagement coming soon now, let's get into today's episode all right, hello, everyone and welcometo these sales engagement, podcast gut an awesome, awesome guest for you heretoday, a good friend of mine. I am joined by Richard Harris, a salesthought leader, the owner of a Harris, consulting group, a longtime trainerconsultant and very close friend of a sales hactor, so Richard hows it goingman doing really really well, but I need toknow something because I was I bun because normally when I watch yourvideos, you have this weird like thing with your hand- and I was hoping youwere going to show me da today. Well, this is Ao podcast. We can itankyou out all my juice. You know Rightat's all right. It's a videopodcast, all right, a right, good man! It is good. It is good to catch up withyou with everything what's been going on. I know with you and saleshacter andme and training and saletacker and out reach and all that stuff. So it's funther. I know wee chated a little bit, but I'm excited O to sort of reconnectwith you litin. So thanks for howing, oean yeah, thanks for thanks for takingthe time you know today. I just just want to have a conversation with you.You know every time I chat with you. I honestly leave with you know a pagefull of notes. So I just want to have one of those natural discussions andthe only difference today is well have a couple hundred or a couple thousandpeople you're listening with us, so that makes it even cooler, that's cool.I appreciate the opportunity. So what can I tell you? So, let's start at thebeginning, because we've been friends, acquaintances for a while now and Idon't actually know how you became you know the Richard Harris you've alwaysbeen this sort of sales, Demi God in my eyes, but but how did you get there? Please stop that Shit, sorry for thelanguage, but not really. How did I get there? You know it's afun opportunity, it's a fun story, because I actually gat fired and the real story. That's the funnyversion. THAT'S THE BAR! That's the the club version of things, but the realtreat is. I was working for this amazing company called Masseri that didAPI management back in two thousand and eleven when nobody really knew what APIwas and they brought me into Builtan SDR team that we did remotely. I was inSan Francisco that team was in Boston. Did that really well and then theymoved me into sales ops when we hired a manager on the ground and about a yearlater the Intel acquisition tame and now, unfortunately, I was probably linefifty five on a forty two line, spreadsheet of people until theyt needanother had of sales off, but rock and Oran, and everybody Christian over atMashery at the time Oo really kind to me and, as I said, hug me out the door,they knew I had a family. They made sure that I had loss o runway to findmy next opportunity, so couldn't be more grateful and well. I was sad thatI didn't get to go through it. I'm prowd, but I was there for it and gladthat ow one door closes another one opens and a few months later I was youknow, someone called me and Sai. Could you help us with this challenge, I'mhaving in Austin and, I said sure, like not a problem and next thing I do. Ihad like a a thirty month. Engagement, like D N T know I was like didn't, haveanything else going on and my first week flowing back is my favorite wasreally is a fun story for me, my first week cliine back- and this is six yearsago now to th two thousand and twelve...

...ish time, I'm flying back from Austinon a Friday night guy sits down on the plane next to me, some sway SOEs jeansand a blazer like Friday, night dudes in a blazer and cool shoes like nobody,leav Austin, on a priday unless they have to these guys, got to be a startupGuy Right Lok got in and it turned out. There was Nick Mata from Ganesit and yeah totally and at that pointgamesite was, oh, maybe twenty employees like just getting startedaand. I start talking he's like Soi. What are you he's like? What do you do?I said: Well, I'm the sales trainer right. You know ISS what I do. I got itI didn't know I'm a sales trainer of he summer self consultent I's like Oh yeah.How do you do that and I just I whipped up my laphop. We started just wejusthad this amazing conversation for two hours we flew, we got shush by theflight attendant twice two times and I will tell you that there was no alcoholinvolved. We were just having such a good time talking about business andsales and process, and the next thing noo is like I whant to have a metingwith you in my office. I I need to hire. I I think I might need to hire yousomething like that, gave him my email address and you know I got off theplane down a baggage claim. I get a text for Im, I'm saying: Hey here's thedate. I want you to come in, I'm like this is amazing right and he wanted meefor another thirty days and I was like holy cow. I have two clients who arepaying week or thirty days, engagements and and O on a street. I was using ayahoo email address. Like I had no business dress, I had no website. I hadnothing so I was like all right. I'm going to Gete this a world. I called mygood friend and who's been my men. Toord John Barrow's I'me talked toTrish Pertuzi, like what do you think like? Is it make sense like? Is thereenough business out there, and you know John Just said, look dude. First of all,it doesn't happen this way. NOBODY GETS TWO CLIENTS FOR THIRTY DAYS OO and he'slike you might as well go for it like he's, like I know, Johns like I knowyou, I've talked to you I'm out with you, I've trained you and your teamlike you're capable of this, and that was kind of the kick in the pants Ineeded, and I talk to my wife and I said, let's take a little bit of thismoney and create what I call a validation website and that's how ithappened like it's. Never it was never designed. I know it's a little bit of along story, but that's the true story, and so I owe tons to my first clientoutbound engine I pon to nick at Gamesite ioa ton to John Barrels andTrish, and you know even Craig Rosenburg. I think at that point I wasH. I don't know if Toko had started at that point, but I talked to him aboutthings like just the community really sort of told me that you know the worldjust sort of opene that way, and I just went for it and had no regrets not onceHaf. I ever regretted doing this so yeah. It's a super interesting storybecause, like from the outside perspective, when you see someone havethe success and as you have it looks like it's all plaided right from theoutside, it's like he had this straetic. You know no, it's like Thisi tell youtheres like a year after that, you know. I go down to rainmaker the firstrainmaker in Atlanta, and I know I need to be conscious, because this is oureach, rerspective, but but Max was there right from sales hacker and Max?I just walked up the MECT. I didn't even know him and I commented on theleafin community and I just said Max when name 's Richard I love thecommunity. If I can never be in help, let me know he's like yeah. Just keepcommenting and then, like I don't know, maybe a month or two later George Sodosays hey. I was just talking to Masx he's looking for some help. Would youwant to help out with sales hacker? I went and met Max and like it really wasvery serindipitous right, like I'm sitting here, because weird thingshappene to my job chance opportunities sit next to Nick Mata, just a Ou know not a chance opportunityto mee Max, but really just sort of wasn't playned. I didn't plan to go upand meet back, so I was just like. Oh that's Max, I should go say hello and that's what opportunity is right likeopportunity doesn't find you it...

...presents itself, but then you got to go.Do it and it's not hard like it's, not it's not as hard the hardest part forme has always been. Am I going to survive the ups and downs, it's morethe mental game than anything, and once you conquer that and once you sort ofsay fuck it I'm going through. You know here we are and now lok now it's here.We are six years later. Three years after I' met Max through thesaleshacker stuff Max has been great to me. We certainly helped my brand. Icould P. I dont ganly, definitely know that. I certainly hope I've helpedenhance the the sales hacter brand and, of course, the outreach frand now sonow it', just it's just serindipitos man, I just it just sort of happensthat way m absolutely. I think that is often again going back to the outsideperspective. Success always seems planned, but in reality it is it's justabout seasing those moments. When you get an Offordon, you got ta run with it.If you got ta grab it and you got ta run and I think yeah been able to dothat extremely well. So you mentioned something there about the mental game.So I'm gonna hone in on that, because I think it's so unbelievably importantand this mental game when we're striving for success when we'restriving to hit our quota motivation, what gets ridor Harris out of bed everyday? How do you keep going? How do you keep the pipeline? Full whend thingsare maybe not goin your way. What's your fall back from motivation? Longbefore Mashery, I had a nice six figure, job being a VPOF sales for smallsecurity company, and this is two thousand and sixtee thousand and sevenwith my wife and I bought our house that were in in two thousand and eightright after we've been married a year our SOM had been born. We moved in onHalloween, so we actually just had our anniversary on the house and two weekslater, on November sixteenth, I got laid off from that VPF sales job. It isthe height of the recession, I'm forty. Whatever years old and I had to eat,you know I had to sort of swallow a lot of pride and I call an old wrap of mineto say, Hey. You know you know of anything and this Guy Tony's, likereally Sart guys, like you know my Bundy Scotts, doing something out anthe east mad near you. You should go, see it and go talk to him. So Iimmediately called O emaild Scott linked in Wiscot like super fast andhad an interview within a week or two and start date of January. First and Iwas now a sales manager making fiftyzandollars a year, and so mylowest moment my weakest point was that moment and I knew that I had to swallowmy pride, not let my ego say well, you can't take that job that beneath you Ihad to rebuild and so whenever, if I ever start to get down, I'm like dude,at least I'm not at that spot again and that Scot, by the way, I's Scottlees,who, I think you know yeah ther's, another great sales leaderand that first got by Matt and got to know each other and became friends andhave done stuff. And so that's what motivates me right. I took that jobbecause I didn't want to have a gap in my resume. I took that job because Ihad a son. I had a mortgage. I had a wife, I need to pay for insurance likeit was literally. You know it was. It was not a fun time like it was not. Itwas not a sexy job, it was a fun thing to do and I'm you know like. I have alifelong frimed out of it and several wil lifelong friends out of it, but itreally, you know, that's what motivates me, because I don't ever want to dothat again like I don't I don't want to struggle like that, andthat's really really. What motivates me is not having to go back to that place.Yeah atd makes sense and it's those experiences that we go through. Youknow they can be so like sobering, a d and hard and at the time, but you knowthrough them to like you, probably just have a ton of confidence to, becauseyou know, if you have to rebuild, you can rebuild right and it's so yeah, butyou have that knowledge in that...

...confidence, then it's okay to take som,more risks and and really pushing for it because it worst comes o worse. Yourebuild you start again and you make it at God ythat's yeah. So I think thatdid- and I have to also give a lot of credit to my wife who never once notonce during that period of time. Did she ever say anything like. Why isn't this working? Why haven't youdone this? Why cant you get a better j like she never once said anything. Shealways has had my back and was just like hey. This is just what we got todo right now, we'll make it work. It's no big deal. We had to Pinc somepennies here and there and do some things, but we made it work like shewade a lot of sacrifices to and I think having a partner like that is also avery, very big part of this kind of stuff. Like it's, you know, she's beenthere through me. I sin she says we now like Hey Richard. What's the Pie, planelook like and I'll say you know, there's a couple of deals here, a I'lltell her what it is like I do T I don't hide it from Er. So, like you know,thet we times are like hey babe. I don't you know, I don't have anythingschedule, there's nothing in the calendar. Like I don't know she's likeare you worried and we kind of look at each other like no, something will comealong. It always does. It always has. So yeah that that really helped buildthat confidence muscle for me and for her and having that rock and anchorbehind me. I honestly know I couldn't have built this or done this withouther behind me. For All the Times I travel and take care of the boys and toyou know when she's Solo, parent for four or five days, you know she's there.So I know that's a big piece of it to yeah shout out to all the partners andsupport network an salespeople. I don't know, I think you don't have lovebecause you know sales is. I would absolutely agree with that. Yeah right,it's a hard, ard, top fo that the person who's in it. But what about thePo that are supporting that person? Yeah go home and give them a hug todaygo home and just say you know what I probably don't say it enough, butthere's enough times where I just got to tell you how much I appreciate youwhen last week something happened in the House and I was at the office andyou just I know you called me grantic, but you got to taken care of just whenyou say things like that. It just means the world to the other person and thenthey end up even supporting you more so by all mean shot out to to all thosewho love and support us, so whether whether they're, significant others orfriends or parents, or whatever you know, yeah totally and yeah. Those listening thatare, maybe you know early earlier on in their career, and I can't stress theimportance enough of finding that network of mentors of people around youthat are that are helping you get to that next level, because I know for meI wouldn't n, be close to where I'm at today. Without you know the help ofhundreds, literally hundreds of peoples, toally Ol, Grea, awesome. All right, so,let's bring it back sowre on the sales engagement podcast right. So let's,let's talk a little bit about engagement and how? How do you seeengagement, changing between cellers and buyers? Today, I think you have to define what youmean by engagement right, because it's always engaging at this point soind. Italso depends on the role so I'll sort of attack it at one level, and you cantell me it that's what you were thinking of so yeah. I likelet me askyou this question when you said that word sales engagement, what picture wasgoing through your head? What picture to me actually like whenyo thinking,likelike hat's, got indivisual? I was getting, was whas some form ofinteraction from one human to another. Ideally that is mutually beneficial toboth parties. Good all right! So now I'm Gongto do I'll answer the question.What I'm US Gointo tell you what I did. This is your free sales tip for theweek, which is called question behind the question. Whatever someone everaskd you a question, there's always a picture in their head. Ask them topaint that picture hey what picture was in your head when you asked thatquestion, we got a really great great answer out of Scot, which is ahandshake e talk about two people...

...having a meaningful conversation,something that's beneficial for each other. Well, that's a very differentkind of engagement than Oh. Let's talk about the text tack right right becauseoftentimes we hear like what the sales engagement look like it's about outreach, right, which it is there's absolutely a big piece about outreachyeah. But that's not what you're talking about what you were. What Ithink you were now talking about is the human side. What's the human elementand that's the part that I think is coming up in sales, the most, which isthat you do need that sort of initial hay. Can I have the conversation right?But if you don't know how to have that engaging conversation and ask betterquestions and ask use question behind the question you can't have as good andive engagewent right- and so I want to create, I think, what's changing- isthat the relationships need to be psychologically and emotionally moreintimate, and I mean that an appropriate way- and I understand it-you know its two thosand and eighteen, but people trust those people that theyfeel like you know they buy from people, they trust more than people. They likethat trust only comes from meaningful, detailed, intimate conversations.That's what I think is changing in the sales engagement world. These days isan inpact. It's it's never gone away. To be honest with you, I think we forthe last couple years. We mahave lost sight of it. We may have prositized ittoo much. We may have sale stacked our you know we may have be getting scoshedunder our sale back right now, hatd ho. I think that human element's beencoming back a lot more and more. At least that's what I've heard these daysright bok. We can have all these amazing tools like outreach or discoveror or all these amazing things to help us go faster, but if we don't havesomething to help us do better than that's that's, where you're going tolose and that's why I see people losing all the time. Is They don't know? They don't realizethat people will buy you not just because of what your service does, buthow your organization does business and how you have conversations and carrythos comperation, absolutely yeah. I think there's there was such an ownesfor so long on like getting the meat and getting the meet and getting meetand getting in front of eole giving fond of people. And then you know osometimes that, because I you know, people reach out to me all the time andthen I'll be like yeah sure, let's jump on a meeting and then there's no focuson that part of the engagement and they haven't not prepared or they don't evenreally know my pains or my challenges or even the World Franklin that I thatI live in and ye I think like it can't be overstated. That that quality, likeyou say, right like when we're in it and we're having a one to one, and Ineed to know that you understand the world that I'm coming from you know. Soyou know so it's interesting because you made me think of something to there,which was a few years ago. You're right, it wasall about outbound out foundout pound Wel, the last two years. It's all beenabout indown en down dinbow right, whether it's hub spot or whether it'syou know ABM right, but in most those cases, you're still not talking aboutimproving the conversation, you're still trying to talk about gettingpeople into the funnel, not what to do with them once they're there. Now thebeauty of ABM is that abmactually focuses on olpound tat, Fokes it oninbound. It does focus on the buyer and the pains that they're experiencing,hopefully at the right moment in the right time, but still nobody's walkingin D, teach the rapts how to actually do stuff better themselves than havethat conversation and that's the piece where I think you know again. I've beensaying it for a while, but I think that's the piece that's coming right. Ithink that's the piece. That's I've said for a long time. Wil You canimprove efficiency, you know as much as you want, but if you don't improveeffectiveness, all you're doing is accelerating the sock factor. Eatinlikeyeah like Sook A, and I thinkI think, manny or Max would agree. Look I can use out reach till the cows, comehome and generate a ton of meetings.

But if I have crappy meetings, that'snot good for out reach, I mean I mean. Maybe it is because you know they'restill buying your tool, but you know that's not what out reach wants eitherlike out reach, isn't just trying to say: Hey use us to get more meetings.They ask this quality built into this tool in this platform that that I knowmanny cares about and that I know Max cares about. I know you care about soas it's there we're just W E we're just getting closer and closer to it, soyeah yeah. I agree for sure, and so let's flip this a little bit. I want toask you: How do you like to be engaged with if I'm trying to get yourattention of God? How do you? How do you like you, engage it, and this isthis isn'ocation to solicit Richard this way, but by the way everyone oosolutely? It is iht, because I guarantee you know, here's the deal,here's e here it is, and I've done this. I've actually done this with a coupleof people. My phone numbers, four hundred five, five, nine, six, nineundred D, four, nine, four hundred five, five: Nine, six, nine hundred nd, fournine call me text me, but bring your a game right, Hav, a meaning. Thegovernme have Ameaningonda. Absolutely you know like. Why am Iblanking who's Te Co Termis, I'm totally blanking his names anway, soNangrim, Yeah El, you R V, had the conversation I con'd say: Itol Ange togo and put my phone number, because it's in my linkedin profile by the wayand say go' put this up in an of your presentations. You give and say lookRichard's profile right here. Has this phone number he'll take a call fromanybody and he presents that all the time you now like phone calls. I getgoose ex like if he presents in front of a thousand people, I might get onephone call and if I don't answer they hang up, they don't eave a message likeI'm not kidding like heand. He- and I joke about this all the time like it'sa funny thing so one I think phone call is the most important thing right, yeahto have a meaning and a purpose you know, do not email me. I wrote about this Nextablogs coming out on a I wrote about on linked in, and I got tastie for t likedo not call and ask me to go to coffee, and then you know, let's create somesynergy and see how we can help them support each other, like first of all,it's forty five minutes because I don't live in the city to Git to the city andit's forty five minutes home. So I got to spend an hour and a half to spendthirty minutes with you to see. If maybe there's something going on andit's funny because I'll say hey, you know what I live out here. I'm happy tohave a conversation, let's schedule a call, no, no O. Let's do it when you'rein the city, I'm like Jesus, like first of all, you didn't even day you wantedmy help with anything most of the time. People want to do that with me becausethey just want to leverage my network, which I'm cool with, but don't don'tbullsit me is my is my biggest thing so how people engaged engagewith me on mypost on Linkedin, engage with me on twitter pick up the phone and call me have a meaning. How have a purpose forwanting to talk to me right understand that sometimes I can say Yeahi'll takethat call for ten or fifteen minutes other times, I'm going to say you, no,I'm really busy. I can't even look at this for three weeks and I get twokinds of response. Some people respect that and they get it and other peoplecome back and say well, Gosh Richard you know, I know when you were buildingyour business. I that you, you went and met with a bunch of people and I'll behonest with you. I really fucking. Didn't you know what I did. I sat athome and I ri I wrote down what needed to go on my website. I wrote my blondpost. I called John for advice. I called someone, but I didn't go and tryand pick everybody's brain and go meet with twenty people and have coffee likeit's a colossal waste of time like you can still get the same, meaningfulengagement out of a phone conversation as you can from actually meeting faceto fase. Yes, there's something missing when you're not face to base, but heythe whole proof is in the pudding because you're all sitting herelistening to this podcast as opposed to coming out and trying to meet somebodyfor COMF, so theaa my ran. Sorry,...

I love it and IV. Ely said actuallyyeah go ahead. I'm sorry because I'm not sorry yeah, I'm not! Sorry! No! I'M!Sorry! I'M NOT! Sorry! If that offended you so yeah callme. I have my numbernow hit. Em, U complain if you want it'sfunny. You bring that up because I've always when people say yeah just wantto meet up for a coffee or exforce energy. For me, that's like the laziestthing possible. What you're doing then is you're putting it on there's noeffort. Yeah Ero, yeah you're, putting it on Yo, say Ha Finish: Yeah you're,putting it on me to find out how we can help each other where you're the onewho approach me. You should know this from the GETGO. How can you help me andhow can I hut you and lay it out and if it makes sense out Tololin Yeah?Absolutely I had a guy yesterday come to me on from GTO Krou right and hesaid not employed there, but but someone a lead from there guys inAfrica, he's been in sit in sales for twenty years, hes. Looking to maybeGOINTO consulting and he's like Hey Richard. Are you taking any you know?Would you ever sort of outsource what you do to Africa or something like that,and I was like no that's not what I do, but the fact that he came to me with areal, honest purpose and real intend to say this is what I want to do. I saidWot, you know I don't know anything about how it works over there. I canassume a lot of things, but I have no idea, but I gave the Guy Fifteenminutes in my time because he came to me with intent and purpose andsincerity. That's what people want today's world. They don't want thisdinnergistic coffee, bullshit, so yeah come with the Game Plan State your gameplan it' just like sitting agenda at the beginning of a cal. You know right,go like it all right, so sales is changing jails. Engagement is changing,there's so many different channels. Now, what do you think makes a good salesrep today? That's maybe different M hm. Well, I think you have to have a moretechnic. You have to be more technically savvy. I think you actuallyI'll be color intuitive to what most people think I do not think you have tobe able to multitask. I think multitasking is amisnomer. There's SI many studies out there to say that yeah, it's been tobug forever. So please don't tell me you're a multitastor. Tell me you're,an extreme focuser. Tell me ID out to focus if I've got ten things to do. Iknow W to focus on each one for ten minutes and get all ten done. Not. Ican multitask my way through that to do this, so I think that's what's reallycompelling these days. I think that you do have to understand your buyerpersonas better, but I also think, like I keep saying Giing your a game bringigyour agame. I think you need know how to have a conversation right and Ithink you need to understand the psychological ways that people makedecisions. We all make decisions the same way. This is stuff. I teach right.We have tree ego states that we go through to make a decision. One ofthose ego states is the child that says I wantet. I wanted I want to you: Havea parent ego state that gives approval or judgment that parent ego stake toneed to be critical, which we all know in sales or nurturing, which helps leaddown the path and that's what the parent does and then ats the adultegoes state that gives you permission to move forward, and so you got tounderstand what that even means. That look, you know. Can I get twenty sevenseconds of your time. Scott, I need to engage SCOTSIP builty go to getpermission for him to even say yes right and then from there can I, fromtwenty seven seconds, will you take a first call? I've got to engage youradultego state. I got to be prepared for the critical parent. That's goingto come down the way and say now we already got that Sall. We do it inhouse we're using a competitor. I gotto know what that is. I got to know morethan just my my big book of objections and how to handle it. I need tounderstand the thought process that humans go through and that to me is thepiece. That's going to really separate the medium people from from the greatpeople like that's just how I see it absolutely and to me that being able toconstoutly address these different ego states, I think a lot of that is comesdown to like empathy right your ability...

...to put yourself in other shoes thatfair, yes, an no, it's not fair, because I don't knowwhat it's like to be Scott. I would never want to assume that I know whatit's like to be, that a you onn get heside, because I noi can say you know I could say. LookI know what a I know what a pain of eigt feels like because I broke mywrist, but you may just have a migrane headache. That's Yau at I can'tempathize with you from the standpoint F saying. I know how that feels. I cantell you that I know what that level of pain feels like right. So that's wherethe empathy comes in, not the empathy of like oh I've done exactly what youdo like. That's, I'm very conscious to that. You do have to be empathetic. Youabsolutely do, but I think weve convinced ourselves that we can fake input the a little too much, and I think that we need to focus on outenticity more than empathy, because,if you're authentic, you will be empathetic right right, you could beempathetic, but not be authentic right. You can be faking it and if you find ways to be moreauthentic, I think you drive more real empathy and create those intimateconversations and get to those ego, states and Geti to the real pain versusthe surface tape. So you know that was a lot to digest. So no that was no.That was awesome, yea, showing up with your authentic self. You know ready to to present to you know: Multiple States.You mentioned that you know the child state, the parents state and the adultstate. I like that. Those were awesome, awesome ways to frame a conversationand think about a conversation. Next Aay I do want to make. I do wat on addone thing nd, and this is something I've had to learn lately. Even when Ihave these conversations. Is that don't confuse anger for authentic? Don'tthink that, just because you're angry and passionate that you're being yourauthentic self, your authentic self has compassion and empathyand oftentimes. Isee it particularly online and you know there's some value, that sort ofcreating a little bit of controversy to make something happen. I've probablydone it. You could probably accuse me of it, but I'm really focusing in onmaking sure that my authenticity is really authentic and then I'm notconfusing my anger of frustration as me being offtented, because that's notreally who I am or who anyoneisthat's a good in for sure. Well, yeah, a lot ofpeople give people hard time if they're, just like being nice and like you know,kindness is one of those things that takes you so far and business like ifyou just show up you're a good person and your hearts in the right place.People want you to succeed. If there's enough people wanting you do you'regonna you're, going to you, Hav culd w have better chances. I completely agreeabsolutely so next question. I want to ask what do you think so we kind ofoutlined a few things that makes a good sales rap today. What do you think repsof today could learn from reps, let's say fifteen years ago? What's missingright now you mean people like me. Thank yeah. I appreciate that you know.Fifteen years ago I had hair almost as good as yours right, so I think it goes both ways, so Iactually probably learn more from millennials that I do from my peers ofsales. I think asking people of experienced to tell eabout their worsesales experience right. Get everybody's got one. Rikt everybody's got hey backin two thousand and seven. I had this really horrible experience where I gotlaid off and I just had a baby and I just bought a house all within threemonths right. I think you can learn from that and you can ask for thosestories versus Andvice, rigkt, don't say hey. How do you do this right? Ithink that ANA. I don't think this is wrong. I don't think anybody's in thewrong. I just think it's how people generationally grown up. I see in here a lot with millennialsand I work with them where it's like hey, show me how to do this and thenJednx is like Ray fucking kidding me. I'm not gonna show you how to do it.Nobody showed me how to do it. I had to...

...figure it out on my own yeah now Icould turn that around and I could say you know when the gnx comes up and sayshey. How do I work my eyhome right and Mali should say: Hey L Yu go figure outhow to work. Your eyehome Kay can go the bothways, so I think I think there needs to bemore respect between the generations and lets top trying to point thefingers and blame everybody and truthfully you know. I truly believethat the genxers are far more jealous of the millennials than they'll evercare to admit, because the millennials are getting all the love and attentionthat we never gote. You know I was ten years old n, the last key kid walkinghome for school fixing, myself a penut butter and Jelly sale, FOM CHOCOLATEBILL E, calling my mom to let her know that I got home, okay right without acellpote, and so I think that we need to just be kinder to each other in alot of ways across the generations. I think that there are no shortcuts. Ithink that's. The piece is like. I would tell someone to say: Hey you knowif I want to get to where you are one of the five things that you wouldsuggest. I do right and I would encourage people to stop saying wellyeah, but I want to do it in six months, not two years. Okay. Well, THAT'S WHINT!If you want to do that, but you first need to figure out what two years evenmeans. There's six things need to happen over those two years. If you canmake them happen in six months, T end I on't leans, go, do it, but don'tmisinterpret the intent of the knowledge Tis trying to be handed toyou yeah! That's it! That's a really goodpoint and I've definitely seen that first hand when I've gone, you knowearly in my career, when I was looking for sales mentors and it was, it couldbe difficult to get. You know these people that have really busy lives tolike we said, give you some time and my yeah I didn't have a man. I didn't knowwhat a fucking mentor was like that didn't exist for me, so people call andthey are like so like hey Richard, do you do paid mentorships, I'm like paid?Why would I make somebody pay me to share knowledge like, first of all,that's my first response. The second is, I don't even know what that means. LikeI've never been a mentor. You know I've been looked up to. I suppose I don'teven like to call myself a thought leader. I just think I just express mythoughts and people happen to like them. That's kind of how I see it like I'm,not a fault leader, I'm just somebody who talks got a microphone, but mymicrophones no bigger than anybody else's. I just started posting stuff onLinkedin like there's, not it's not like all of a sudden Richard. I justdid something. That's it right. There was no plan, as we talked about earlierso yeah, it's interesting, because that mintorship thing is still for me veryunusual. You know, and I think if peo maybe went to like when I came out ofcollege- and you know in the last century of ninety two back in the day you only got sort of mentors. I think,in an official capacity. If you went to like a big company right, CODAC Xerox,you know whatever at least that's my belief. I could be completely wrongabout that, because I've never been with a big company, but that mentorshipthing is interesting to me, because I just never had it and- and I say thatyou know i'me done a Jole, a I'm like yeah. You need advice. Just call me ifI've got time I'll give it to you like that's just sort of how it works. Youknow I just call that Karmont not mentorship yeah yeah. Absolutely. Forme, it's been helpful to almost kind of stimulate a future like anytime. Iapproach someone its it's with Ha Plan. It's like hey. I want to be you orcareer wise in five ten years. How do I sidestep some of the mistakes you madeand I find that when you frame it that way, a lot of people are the bestquestion Yeah Oh yeah like whenever I did normally, when I do. You know, WhetI've, posted podcast or or Webon Arts. You know one of mythings when I do the salestacker Webenars one of my favorite questionsto ask the patalist is to say hey. You know, you've shared a lot of greatstories about success, but you know just between us and you tell us thebiggest mistake you ever made. So nobody else makes it right. Yeah andthose stories are so much more fun and exciting anyway, right like yeah, Iwant to hear about the process. You got to close your first six figure deal,but tell me about the four that you...

...lost. What d you learn from thoseecause, those or the that's? What I want to avoide right, I think Tan LD itperfectly I ave. I want to turn it back around right, so I'm a Bood bisbrngeneration. What is someone like you look for to mentor right like what aryour expectation is it I want to talk to them weekly. I want to talk to themby weekly. I need a mentor for my personal life. I need a Mento work formy business like like. What's it mean for you, because I don't know theanswer of this, so I'm I'm goingto flip the SCRIP dony a little bit yeah, so Iwould definitely break it down into a few different kind of categories. Youknow you can't rely on one mentor to teach you everything you know break itinto. You know, like health wealth, you know happiness, love like those thosefour categories that would say, and then you Sotwai Helth Yel happiness andlove. Just so people get it. Okay, cool yeah, yeah. That would that's how Iwould kind of break it down and with wealth and career. That's the one.I've obviously focused on a lot right now, just because that's area of who mylife that I'm focused on and to me it's exactly that. I just want to know how Ican accomplish what they've accomplished without doing some of themistakes that they've done. It's almost like got emulating an alternate realityand Yaokkay. If you could Redo it all over again, how would you do itdifferently and those are the the answers that have taught me so much and I like yeah,go ahead yeah and as far as a cadence goes, I think it's all. It's alldifferent. You know, there's people that I connect with once a month,people that I connect with once a quarter, and I would say my advice foranyone. That's looking to create those sort of relationships. Do all the worklike if you're going to ask for someone's time come. I like will buildo an agenda Yik. This is what I want to cover. If there's anything, I can helpyou with as well. Please tack it on, and so I can do some homework andShulup prepared as well. Olet's start again, I just I like to di into this soyeah, so right now, wer where's your focuses on help or wealth or wealthinbusiness. I think HEU said Yeah. I would say I would say well right nowand then and then hease you know a so if you, if you talk about Welt, are yousaying Hey Richard you know do? Does that mean you have someone like RichardWho's? Just you know been successful and you're asking them advice. Doesthat mean you actually have a financial planner that you're like you're,starting to build your brokerage accounts and you're? Saying hey help mebuild this stuff out? is in baby, your mom and your dad, because maybe they'vebeen successful like yea and then how often do you talk to that person as itrelates to this wealth part of your life M, so I wouldsay kind of I've all of the Bove. So there's people that I have that careerwise. I want to be them in five years and then I have people that are thebest of what they do at finance and I'll lean on them. PRETY UC. I know Iknow very little about finance, I know very little about picking stocks, but Iknow people ware good at that. You know I'm good at what I do and I look for experts in their field andonce I built that trust for someone, I will rely on them almost to a fault ifthat truc got built because they're they're the expert- and I think, if yousurround yourself with experts every day and you kind of collect authentic,smart people in your life, all of a sudden you wake up and you've got somepretty good. You know harmony in your life and then things start comingtogether, cool. I'm going to ask you another question. I know I'vecompletely turned this roun bu reverse this yeah. What Hi is what I do right thinksa interesting: Let's do it yeah so o and because I because I'm curious aboutthis- like I don't know so as you look to build your mentorship and build outScotts life, are you able to have a mentor for Wealth, health, happinessand love? Or can you really only like try and tackle two of those at any onetime like? How do you balance that,...

...because I think you're keeing in ontrying to create that work, like balance theverybody talks about, but ina very meaningful way, and any I mean, can the Tuman brain actually work thathard on all for things and still have time to relax or does focusing on allfor those things relax you? Maybe it does M Yeah. I think there's there's Boin my experience and I'm sure you know you're working towards having all forin perfect bauance right. THAT'S THAT'S ENLIGHTENMENT! You can call it, but I,in my experience I found a lot a Gongilo yeah I found one one usuallytakes a hit. Always you can get about three out of the furl right, but yourfocus will eventually inevitably yop go away from from one. So it's a bit of agive and take but yeah. So you did such a good job. Thank youlike thank Youlassic Richard Harris right there. You just find yourselfsthis conversation, that's very authentic, Ond, like how did we gethere? What what US A- but I love it atd, so wwe're probably got about five moreminutes. So I know you have a wealth of knowledge. I'm going to leave this justkind of an open book question do what you w will with it and if you have fiveminutes the next five minutes to give advice to sales leaders out there, whatadvice do you give them? I'm going to give a different piece of it? I'm ginto go some good advice and I'm going to tell a story. It's a little long. It'sa personal story, and it's true, but I know it's a topic, that's about tostart coming up very specifically, and it's about never giving up and it'sabout being vulmerable in sales. We are told to build on thisiron suit, ten times greater than iron man and Superman put together and haveBatman utility belt and we can never ever be vulnerable, and that puts a lot of pressure on usin addition to that, we're often wired to not be vulnerable or do those things,and so my advice to you is to flip that upside down be vulnerable. Be MassivelyVulnerable and do not ignore those emotions. Do not ignore that sadnessthat depression feeling I am what I would call and what others ave calledsort of a functionaling depressed person believe it or not. When I firstmoved to San Francisco was working for a company and I woke up on had beenworking for years with them and I was loving it. I thought I was having agreat time, but I was working twelve hours a day, six or seven days a week,and this is this is the late y. So this is right around the Firstcom bus and Iwould literally woke up one day in my apartment in San Francisco. I wassingle I could afford to live by myself. I was a straight heterosexual man inSan Francisco doing very well financially, and I wasdepressed with my life like I had no girlfriend. I had no options for datinganybody and I woke up one day just wrapped up in a ball in my bed in tearslike that they couldn't stop flowing. So, of course, like any, you know proudperson. Does they pick up a phone? An BECA we call, we call our mom and mymom lives in Georgia which, by the way she's an amazingfinancial planner. Just so, if you ever needed by some half ty introduce you to,but I called her and you know my mom said well, why don't you just come home,and that was the last thing I wanted to do. For my generation forgennixs goinghome and MINUTEMI defeat. She's, like you, don't have to move. You know youcan move home, I'm like mom, I'm never moving home and she said well just comeome for a visit like now that that would be admitting tepeat and she saidwhat do you mean? I said I can't let this city win and at that point I waspretty intimidated by San Francisco, because you have to be fairly smart tolive to afforder, to get a job and be able to afford to live in the cityright. It's not easy to do and have...

...talk to anybody who's, making it work.I don't care how you're doing it with the roommate without a roommatesignificant other six roommates whatever, but I couldn't let thathappen, but I was also really afraid to tell people that I was dopressed that Ihad anxiety that I was having anxiety attacks and I had no network around meand I think that's one of the beautiful thing. I think that's one things I loveabout watching the millennial generation, because I think you bishave been Gr, brought up with this way of thinking about life and support andthat there's more meaning to it than just work. Whereas mine was its work,Orworpor work all time right and then later you can have a nice fun liferight. So I went and did all the right things I wouldn't. I saw mental healthprofessionals. I still see the one I started seeing fifteen or sixteen yearsago. You know my kids are here because I wouldn't found this person and mykids know that Bab metters they OL said you know you guys are here because shehelped me figure out some stuff. That's hats! I so my advice for people is own.All the great stuff right by all means own, the great stuff take the accolades.You know, take the take the punches to you'R, no look to him you're going totake the credit you're going to get the blame right, but nat emotional stuffthat stuff inside you that needs to be fealed on a regular basis, find a wayto do it right, whether it's through psychotherapy, whether it's through theproper medications under proper doctors, whether it's more working out, maybeyou just need that I'me. Actually, for the last six or seven months, I've beendoing head space. My whole family tells me what a different person I am becauseof it, and I recognize it to. I see it. So I think it's the mental game that Ithink we have to give ourselves chances to get through. That's the advice. Iwant people to take going forward. I know there's a lot of focus right nowand there should be on not being gender, biased inequality and equal pay and people. Just let people go to thebathroom Igh, get it like all that stuff is super important to, but yougot to start paying attention to the mental stuff, otherwise you're you'rejust not going to be happy. So but that's my advice, amazing, and vice. Ithink that I was just having this very similar conversation today. I actuallybrought up head space as well about the power of you, know, meditating andtaking care of your brain becauseit. It's all we have. You know if if it'snot ong, she know got you know and you're, not a functioning happy humanbeing it everything else. You know falls apart, so I think my dad Os hadspace with me. Yeah Theyr, great e pace is awesome and I you know I have togive another pui mean I started using it beforehamd, but they eventuallybecame a client. So I've worked with them because Theya lets do sell toorganizations like they do want to go in, and you know wellness and happinessand all that stuff batters at organizations these days, and so theyactually have a whole platform for people to do that and I sorry to plughead space, but that's sort, I thinkyou, know yeah, but my kids love doing itwith me. You know they have these great cute little cartoons and we watch thecartoon about what it's meaning and then we talk about it and it's reallygreat for them and my youngest son boaty he's like Daddy. Can we do theheadspace thing tonight at bedtime and it's ten minutes of actual deep brassand breading in and breathing out and releasing your MOU like he really getsinto it. So you know take care of yourself. That's that's the mostimportant thing, absolutely grand advice. I've got my own personalmorning routine, where I meditate I work out and it's had a massive impacton my overall congradulation about being so. It's awesome. So it's coolthat is you made hedcaste. I don't. Actually I basicaly. I call itmeditating, I'm basically just doing a series of breathing exercise exercisesI'm working on getting up up there. Oh, I don't look. Look I'm not here to saythat one is any better than the other look. There's calm, there's head space,I'm sure there's other things and Yeahha happen, Os Port O client, butI'm just glad to hear you say that. That's something you do that's so inthe generational thing I know we need we got to go, but that's not somethingthat went on for my generation when I was twenty something years old orthirty, something years old like that,...

...just it just was so California Avocado,which I know for everybody in California, is like what does he meanby that everybody else outside of California's going? I know exactly whathe means rest. You know that was just not that way. SoI'm really glad to hear that you're doing that, because that's reallyimportant. Absolutely that was great. So so many takeaways from this to kindof recap so be authentic, be vulnerable, be curious! Take care of yourself, youknow I'll, say the four corners, healthwealth love happiness and thena'll stars from taking care of your you know. Mental State and build a buildingat Thatwork, have people who have your back yeah and be supportive and thinkthose people who have your, who have your back right. Thank your significantothers. So yeah yeah, that's tha, Calle, H, Actionir, always talking next stepsright where on sales go, go thank myd system after this, after this podcasta'm right. That leads me to a big thank Ou to you. Mister Richard Harris thanksfore spending some time, yo a any time that was awsome yeah. This was so much fun. I reallyappreciated Scott and love what you're doing with all this stuff so alwayshave to come back and do it again, if I haven't put anybody to sweet I'll, be taking me up on that thanksRichard All right, thank God. This was another episode of the sales engagement,podcast joinus at sales, engagementcom for new episodes, resources and thebook on sales. Engagement coming soon to get the most out of your salesengagement strategy, make sure to check out out reach te IO. The leading salesengagement platform see you on the next episode.

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