The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

The Surprising Truth Behind Square’s Success: a Rare Combo of New Tech & Old School Sales Tactics w/ Tom Hanrahan


Square: It’s led by one of the great CEOs of our time, Jack Dorsey. On the surface, it can be easy to think Square’s moving at lighting speed, constantly creating technology that’s changing their industry.

You’d be totally correct.

But you’d also be right if you thought that they had an old school sales mentality:  boots-on-the-ground, literally knocking-on-the-door sales tactics. Somehow, they’ve combined both.

We know because we talked to the Head of Sales, Tom Hanrahan. This guy’s an anomaly himself.

He started his sales career selling uniforms with Aramark before moving to NYC to work for LivingSocial as a Sales Leader. Next up was Seattle, with a small company named Amazon. Of course, you he had a stint in silicon valley. But his next move was unexpected: He took up the Head of Sales position for Square, and moved to St. Louis.

Tom came on our Sales Engagement Podcast to share how Square is not only pushing the envelope in POS and credit card processing, but it’s revolutionizing every sales tactic, by inventing new ones and combining old ones.

Their sales teams borrow from every category but fits in none.

You have to check this out.

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast. This podcast is brought to you by outreach dot ioh, the leading sales engagement platform helping companies, sellers and customer success engaged with buyers and customers in the modern sales era. Check out sales engagementcom for new episodes, resources and the book on sales engagement coming soon. Now let's get into today's episode. Hey, everybody, welcome back to the sales engagement podcast. On Mark Costaglo, VP of sales at outreach. I Have Tom Hanrahand today with us. He's a VP OF SNB sales for the East Coast at Square. Hey, Tom Han's going, man, how's going work? Thanks for having me. Yeah, no problem. Why don't you tell everybody a little bit about yourself for we get started? Yeah, sure. So I currently reside in St Louis, Missouri. Well, we see our our sales teams in St Louis and New York. So about forty people preach office in with square for about four years now. But I'm a Pacific northwest native, so with the High School and college out there, used to live in the Kirkland area. So very familiar with what you guys doing with and extended to be on the podcast to day. Yeah, yeah, you're just making fun of me, because are awesome. Northwest Pacific, northwest fall weather, weather, right, that's right, that's right. Yeah, a lot of time for netflixing it, for sure, but I mean it's better than St Louis. We almost had an I storm on a Friday and then sixty degree weather on Saturday. So all over the place there. Yeah. So, and for the use of though, for you that don't know, outreach is based in Seattle, so I would get to deal with the rain all the time, but it's not as bad being recently moved out here as everyone says, in my opinionly, yeah, that's beautiful. You get beautiful with weather two and nice summer. So so tom a couple things are going to cover. Is a before we jumped on today. We're talking a little bit about some cool stuff that you're experimenting with at Square, but I was in St Louis for an event last week. When we met, you told me this really cool story of how you guys kind of decided on St Louis as a place to base, you know, east coast sales out of. I think you also have a office in New York City. So why do you take me through a little bit about like that part is? I think that really relates to sales engagement from a standpoint of like costs and how you kind of scale out. Yeah, definitely. So I think too many times as sale organizations we think about cutting costs and that's like the only metric people focus on it. It's so far from the truth. So for us, would see Louis specifically are our search kind of started with our VP of business at the time, went to Jack, Our CEO, and we were going to hire consulting firm and look at all these different areas that we go to Arizona. Do We build an Atlanta and basically, knowing that he's seeing Louis natives that they do, you just want to do it in St Louis. and He, you know, very excitingly, said yes, there's no need for a search, let's build in St Louis and then from there I think the assumptions that went into it is too fold. Is that seeing Louis has, you know, for major universities within a twenty or fifteen our radius, right, the ton of talent there. What we saw when we did our research, a lot of people would go out Chicago, go New York with a boomerang back to St Louis. So a healthy pipeline of sales professional talent that we would see and then the assumptions that we would get people. We would kind of be a different type of business in the area, kind of still have that tech feel, but get people who wanted to be here longer, to looking to build their career and really felt committed to the overall mission of the company. And I think you know we've been here for two and a half years now and you know, built the team overall for sales to just over forty people. Started with six. Built the office around four hundred people and as of as we speak right now, the top two sales seems in the entire organization come out of Saint Louis. I think we've been pleasantly surprised and I think it far exceeded our expectations. Are that midwestern work ethic like? What it what is the secret sauce? Do you think that's right? I think you get we were chatting about this, but I think you know it's the people that we've seen here approach to roll with a level of humility, but also strong work ethic where they bring their lunch fail and they come in. You know, they come at eight o'clock, they leave it thirty because I go into their families. But very committed to the science behind sales...

...and not looking for this. You know, we joke about it, but this kind of snowflake mentality of I need something new every eighteen months, but really around perfecting their current role. Also can create new opportunities for them and I we've had a ton of examples to give some concepts there. My team in two thousand and seventeen we had team around twenty two and of that twenty two eight we're able to promote eight people two different roles than the Organization of progress them through the individual contributor career progression follows. Yeah, it's so cool to take someone that doesn't have that kind of Silicon Valley. I got to get a promotion every six months mentality to really learner craft. You not talked about that as kind of old school sales guy. You know, our first sales job, our promotion was we didn't get fired. It was at that's right. Yeah, you get the check. The check didn't bounce. And I think the other thing to do worth of calling out there mark for anybody who's starting to build a sales organization, whether it's in St Louis or in a tier one market. Is What we were able to do is really challenge our bias on the assumption that we had around the experience level that we wanted for our sales people in the background to where we were targeting text sales individual people who were doing field sales roles, and we really had to shift that in St Louis because there wasn't anything. There wasn't a yelp right that there was an outreas, it wasn't thing we could pull from. So we really focus on four main things and that was finding people who were coachable, who are hard working, motivating, a motivated and competitive and it really allowed us to kind of open up the net into who we could bring in to to our ecosystem and interview and then really commit on our end from an enablement side, on just that development, which I know you do with their thats SR's. You have an house, but just, you know, coming in training people up who are good people, who want to work hard, and I think you see long term success from that and any sales organization. You like a really cool story. Always like to like these interesting discussions are like accentuated with an awesome story about a specific person. You have a story could tell? Yeah, so about individual? I'll tell you specifically. We had one person who is now in a team lead role, which is two levels removed from where he was when he started. He started with support and I joke with him when we interviewed him he was kind of the kid on our support center that had like a St Louis Haddie work backwards and wasn't really sure what the appeal of this kid was. But one of his manners came up to me and he said, listen, this kid's money and he's going to be really strong for you. It was a kind of a process where he was a little unsure about coming on the sales because the variable comp component. He had experience, but retail sales atnt before, but really high product knowledge, and I think we saw that a my conversation was Sims, okay, if you work as hard as you're working now, you're going to be really successful. Fast forward about two years later. He's now probably you know, you know, tripled his compensation in two years. It's been promoted twice and is on a fasttrack to a management role and recently just close one of our largest businesses, Carlos Bakery, which is, you know, famous for a King boss fame. Buddy found from the TLC show. They're working with us for looking the role them out nationwide and brought in one of the larger deals on two thousand and eighteen. So and he's a kid, you know, just had the behavioral skills, just worked hard, was extremely coachable, really motivated and and keep from a sports background, so had that competitiveness, that had that drive in them. But there's an example where I see this all the time to our recruiters. We would have never hired him externally. We probably never hire him in one of our simpsical New York markets either. Yeah, it's really key. One of the things that in our conversation last week that just really kind of stuck in my mind was these for characteristics and how important and how you know, lucky you guys were to identify those. And one of them isn't have you sold SASS or technology before, right, like how much do you think that leads people a strite it assume they have to hire somebody that sells and technology. Well, I think you get you get handcuffed to it and then it becomes kind of a fully process where you just prinstant repeat the same profiles, run into the same issues. and to me the most important thing of building something that knew is the culture side of it, right where you need people who are resilient and people who are, you know,...

...flexible, agile, can kind of handle it adversity, but then then work autonomously to build things up and solving that new problems that may come up. So to me I think of you know, I say this in my managers. You need trench guys. You need people that in the trenches when things are difficult, when there's a lot of uncertainty, that you know they're going to be, you know, mentally strong enough to fight through. And I think you know the mental strength or be an emotionally intelligent be and won't fight through those things. Is probably the most important thing of sales that I've seen in kind of my twelve years of being involved into business, where I think we tend to over index on experience, but a lot of times we're doing that or conversating because we have poor, Nablement right those are some for some companies. I get it, like if you don't have a training sapping your kind of net new you need to going experience because you know for marks and get on the phone and have to shatow everybody. That takes a ton of time away. So there's a balance there. And so for us we happen to be at the right time of our sales seem being about two years old of the time, to where we knew, we had training in place, we had an implement resources that hey, let's really high and develop these people through. Yeah, now I'm convinced that the number one thing that it takes in an endeavor like what square took a risk of doing and move into St Louis is having a strong person like you, not the Brown those too much, that can really like Rye, believes in it. Like, what did they have to do to get you off of the coast and into the middle? Why did you do it? Man, that's a that's a good question. I got asking a lot at when I first took the role. I think for me it was you know, I kind of did my value exercise on what means a lot to me in my career and before that I had an opportunity to move to New York first, but it was a team that was already established. It wasn't the growth wasn't going to be promised to be as fast. There wasn't as exciting when opportunity and I'm from New York, I love New York City. So for me I did a virus. So, like, what do I love to do? I love the coach, I love to build, I love solving that new problems. And then I think fundamentally, like the EGO side was I really believe that if we hire these type of individuals and we commit to the culture, that we can create an amazing sales team that will just crush whatever goal we put in front of them. So that drove me to make the decision. But I will be honest, I had some mentors and leaders of time that were very convincing in this opportunity and so that that doesn't hurt. They definitely help you see the big picture of kind of what what this could be. Yeah, I think you know, having somebody that's willing to embrace a challenge and is a builder rather than someone that's a perfector is a key characteristic. I mean they got lucky that they that you were able to do that for them. Well, and I think and not to be but I think it's so important, though, where we've also tried to move teams, and I've seen some other companies too, when you don't have somebody who gets a culture or isn't willing to come from Ah, you like there's such a tradeoff there. So I mean, I would tell companies are thinking about doing this. A lot of times compensation comes up and do you want to lower somebody's comp because they're going to a tear toube market or their bonus involved, and just pay whatever it is to get that right person in? See, because the amount of money, you say, from getting somebody from that market or what have you're not moving. It's just not worth it. Like get somebody who gets your culture, understands like what you're building and can go in and do that day one. Yeah, it's amazing how the Penny pinchers will try to skim somebody on K when in their first month they, because they're such a good negotiator, they make the company a hundred K and better deal, you know value. So it's exactly so short sided. Well, tell me a little bit with this enablement piece. That sounded like it was super important to can you give me a little bit idea of how you structure, name when your ramp time is like Kep? Me Understand that a little bit. Yes, I'll tell you. A square nine year old company. Sales scenes four years old. So when I came on board as a manager about four years ago, we were still managers. Did all enablement right, so we didn't have a dedicated and even once the team it's about year. I was in roll right when St Louis started. So our ramp time today is a sixmonth ram process. But realistically, how we structure the targets as you need to be closing at the rate of a full fully Ram d a e and in month three, like at the end of month three for you to hit your target on six because we have our reps manager book of business for the first ninety days. So there's some commitment there to make sure we've limit churn risk but then also... get the benefits of that. So it's not it's a hunter roll, but they still have to do some type of relationship management there. So our Nablemen we break into two pieces, where one is really product side where it's like hey, squares a mile long and inch d like our sales people have to talk to every vertical, anybody who takes a credit card payment. You have to be able to be a consultant. They're very difficult, right. Yeah, so there's a lot there. And then the other side is soft skills and we've started to wear you know, two years ago it was almost all product and then we were going to overhire from the sales skill side. Right, so our name when wasn't in place. So we pull people who came from Yell, came from enterprise when our car that understood how to negotiate had objection handle. Now, as we shifted the profile and really said Hey, we're going to develop people based off those four characteristics, we've now introduced to challenger sale. We've introduced some different type of negotiation trainings, objection handling trainings, we've outsource some stuff, kept some stuff in house. So we're now our sales. Soft skill training is just as important as a product side and I think that's something we're going to continue to commit to. You know, in two thousand and nineteen you have a dedicated person just for St Louis because they had that higher need for soft skills training. I would love to, we don't yet. Our NABLEMENT, just basically due to flexibility, is all based out of San Francisco Right now. We were team about for there, but we're looking to see if we can see that in other offices, you know, in the future. Yeah, and then let me understand kind of the rigor. Is it a classroom session once a day, like how did the how do you guys deal with the product knowledge training? Yeah, I mean it's a two week boot camp where it's heavy. You go right to our square one is kind of your introduction to square at a high level. You get to me with our CEO. But then from there and you were breaking out, you know, all the different products that we offer. Really Deep Payments Knowledge Training, which is, you know, you can spend two weeks alone on just learning the payments interesstry, the merchant services that we're mergence services and software. So understanding where our product wins. Yet to understand partners as well as in that two week and then the second week is more the soft skill so week one is all product like learn how to like what you're selling, learn about the product. Week two is how to do your job and how to do it well. Then in from there through the six months. We don't just say two weeks and you're done. We then have like higher level soft skill training and then API like partnership, like some of that, like more complex up markets product training is later on in their on boarding process. Are you using any kind of cools to help facilitate that, or is all like Google doc, Google form? We we've gotten. I mean I laugh because there was a world where everything was google docs and I would jump like, let's just make another doc about everything. So we have a couple enable men tools that we use today or gramps, a partner of ours, that that we started with them from the very beginning. We've looked at some other LMS software. We piloted some things, but nothing that we've subscribed to. And then we do a lot of different things. Would video and and then we saw some things that live in Google doc to unfortunately. Yeah, yeah, how do you test for competency? This is always like the thing that like, I think a lot of people think about and don't really nail down. It's I'm guessing you guys have it nailed down, but like how are you testing for competency, like hey, we've reached a certain level of knowledge base so that we can release these people to prospects and know that they're not going to, like, hurt us. Yeah, I mean we keep a bar, right. So we have several different certifications. We have a point of sale certification, we have a vertical, specific restaurant and retail certification, then we have like a general objection handling negotiation certification, if you and then we have a scoring roubrick that is developed a by our onboarding team or enablement team, but in partnership with our sales managers, and our sales manage are frontline managers. I think this is really important. Are Very involved with those certifications, because it's one thing to have your enable the team say they ready to go. It's another thing is have your frontline manager say no, okay, I know this person can produce. And we keep a bar of eighty percent. If you score below eight percent, like you are not allowed to do your job until you pass. So we had some people and in the cold thing here, mark, is the higher managers making the call. So we're not putting that pressure on an ablement to say yes or... It's a high. I'm interesting, Hay, are they ready to go? Because, as you know, if you put somebody on the floor or in the field who is not feel like they have the converse level, you're just going to be dragged away from it. So we'll make them go back and retest there. I want to say probably ninety tent of people pass on the first go, but I mean we're not shy about feeling people were needed because it's just a good learning opportunity, especially early on. Yeah, no doubt. I think that if you have certifications, they have to have some teeth and people need to see the teeth every once in a while or it's just a rubber stamp that in it work gets around. You don't really need to know your stuff because nothing's going to happen if you don't hundred percent. And we've tried to shift these sort of vacations to where there's a test portion of it, where it's like a knowledge base, but then also a role play. So we really want people to understand not just the product, like that's your bare minimums. You know the product, but how do you where do we win, and how do you position the product, which is equally as important as you know, in any sales roll versus just reading a list of features. What kind of roles do you have there? You have a str like how we understand the sales rules. Yeah, so, yeah, we've started to specialize our entire team about three years ago. So we have an Etr, which is an account development Rep. what they do is lead qualification. So squares still has a lot of people come in bound that are interested in learning more about square. We have our eight yards or to kind of feel filter out who should talk to sales and you just stef on board, because if on boarding is so big part of our business, but we want to make sure we're talking to the most complex, you know, upmarket, high value deals that were passing to our reps, our bedrs, Business Development Reps. they do all of our cold calling. So bede or will pair with a number of as, depending on the segment what they need for pipeline support, and they'll go out and there they're just hunting. They're going to go find meetings, are going to go call to pipeline that exists to try to accelerate opportunities there. And then, on top of that we have two stacks of age, actually three, or SB segment, which count executive. They're closing both in bound and outbound leads within a revenue range of a hundred thousand dollars a year in credit our process. The twenty million are mid market team, which is exclusively outbound, so they're kind of our outbound engine. They'll focus on things anywhere from a million dollars at fifty million dollars a year. And then we have our enterprising whatsit's on top, but just similar to like a national account team. So those are the roles like the sales stack. For support resources, we also have a solutions engineering team that works with our partnerships team to do any type of API integration or we tended to call a custom build, but build for a vertical or build for, you know, a dressful market. And then we also have sales operations, as you know, like just help in house state of scientists there, and then professional services, which would help with on boarding. So anytime there's a complex deal or somewhere we have to go install, you know in person, like our professional services team, for a fee, will go out and do that and they kind of support sale seem as well, along with the sales enable the team. So you turn to see the specialization where close to thirty percent of our tire staff is sale support resources. Yeah, that that's a great ratio. Do you feel like are your bedr supporting those mid market a's or just the SNBA? Both? So initially they were in place really to support the mid market enterprise theme, because we had that inbound, but more or less. But as we've grown the team we tried to grow top a funnel. So I think at some point it all becomes an outbound team. But there's still today for us to do that, you know, in a responsible way. We we have bed our resource of dedicated s and me today to kind of help along with the expectation of a source outbound as well. Are you having mid market source outbound and SNB? Is it like part of the culture or just the SNB guys? Well, it's it's right now. It's a necessity. Right, I mean whether it's a part of the culture not as a different conversation, maybe for another episode, but it's something we've had to shift for because, I mean, as you we we called Champagne problems where it's your square. You're getting all these inbound leads and we've had to figure out, like what's the responsible and strategic way to supplit that up? People get a little bit dependent on that. So trying to get them to build into their process. You know, changing anybody's process day today there's a huge risk attached to that. So we've slowly tried to step into that and support it. would be our resources, but it very much is an...

...expectation at this point for people who want to be successful. Yeah, cool. One thing that we talked about before we got on the call this morning was this kind of cool experiment that you're in the early stages of boots on the ground, kind of like going back, and I thought it was so cool because so many people on the podcast and then I talked to want to know about new school methodologies and like what is the new thing? What new tech and all this, and when I talk to you, like man, we're doing that, but we're also like going back to the old school made boots on a ground, was like you gotta tell me some more about that. So how we understand what that little experiments about? Yeah, definitely. So I think for a square, I mean we try not to take ourselves too seriously where we would say we have to over engineer or think things and sometimes you just gotta think like what could be impactful, what could be effective? Where can we meet your seller? So recently, I must sure you sell the public launch, but we launch squares terminal, which essentially is a product that should replace these brick terminals that exist in these and these small shops that are going to have a native point of sale but they need to partner with somebody take credit card payments. So in New York City specifically, as well as some other major metros around the country, we're putting bots on the ground just to go do to door show the hardware. We're very confident once you see the hardware, once you see their product, it's going to really draw your attention to get you to want to learn more and, you know, set those appointments for account executives to go in and see if there's a relationship where we can compliment their business or or maybe replace their brick terminal. So it's been it's early stages, but it's been really effective to date. It's one of our it's a too X are conversion rate in regards to touch, to getting an appointment, and we've seen when rates go up significantly as well. This also came apart from from US understanding what our competitors are doing, where Squirrel is a squares of payments coming, but it's also point of sale company, so we're dealing with a lot of resellers. Where resellers will do is I have five point sales to sell. I had three hundred contracted account executives and we don't want that experience because we want to control your experience with square. But we also know that sometimes our sellers expect somewhat about personal touch to it. So it's really just understanding our clients and trying to try new ways to meet them in the field. Did you see that movie about right CROC and McDonald's? Oh yeah, absolutely, I'm totally imagine the square gap pulling up in a Buich with a square terminal and put them in his back and like going in there and throwing it on the counter. Is that how it works? You know, I hope that we approach with that level the swagger. Maybe not the Beau, it might just be some nikes because we're doing everything on the on fee, you know, in New York cities, and that doesn't make it to drive. But yeah, man, I would not mind anybody going and it is dropping it down, saying here's your payment terminal, here's your milk, here's your milkshake machines. Great movie by with Michael Keaton did amazing. Net Mo knew that was a baller movie. My Kids Actually Watch a movie and got a lot out of it about like, first of all, make sure you don't put yourself in a position to get screwed instead of that's it. Yeah, it's kind of like this weird thing where you're rooting for him but then you hate him in the same time. But it's a good story on capitalist of the way. Yeah, right, right. So when you have people going on the street, how are you supporting them, like with their follow up and all that kind of stuff? Do you have a team of people that are kind of riding in their wake, or those reps on the streets like come clearly responsible for everything after they make that initial engagement? So we'll partner them up with a BEDR. So we'll have a BEDR attached to an account executive and they'll take a zone. They'll say hey, this neighbor a little Italy is what we want to focus on, and we've created some different technology where we can do it in the field, uploaded right away, log and call within sales for us and kind of have all those appointments. So literally working from a tablet right in the field. But we try to be strategic where it's like, okay, we don't want to go to why? Because one to see how effective this can be on a personal level. So it's like, okay, here's these fifty businesses, let's go touch all these fifty businesses and a forty eight hours span, let's see our conversion, our final metrics from there. And then from there it's at least seven point touch for follow up, assuming like by touch three we've normally get some type of engagement. What is the response from prospects? I mean it's squares, any unique place where people still want have a conversation. So I think it's been very positive. And what also we...

...look at this, you know, to fill obviously we want to win business, right, but it works consultative sales organization. That allsounds a good feedback. So one thing that's been really beneficial as we launched products, as we go in with this new hardware that we're really excited about because because, you know, three or four years of developed and they'll give us some feedbacks. A Hey, we actually want it to be innovator, we actually wanted to look like this or we need this feature, and that's equally as important for us as we're building, because we always want to build inside out, from a sell our perspective, not from what we just think it's a great idea. So the response has been really positive and I think we've had some early success with when rates of getting people on a square. But all so some amazing feedback that really is invaluable to us. So I want to kind of finish things up, but before I do want to one last question, because you guys are mean the breadth of the team that you have in St Louis in terms of responsibility, that the cool stuff that you're doing. You know, obviously you have like a super famous progressive CEO that's probably throwing crazy ideas at you. Like how do you, as a sales leader that wants to be innovated and pushing the envelope, how are you prioritizing what you go after in terms of, you know, getting that top of the funnel sales engagement stuff taking care of? Like how do you say, listen of all the noise, this is the one signal I want to pay it. Yeah, I mean it's a good question and I think it's really leaning on, you know, our operations. People are data scientists to say, like, let's test a lot, but let's react to trends unless react to data, and that's a discipline that, you know, is built a long time ago, like with our sales team, and that's how we that's will let us a specialization. That's what let us start to test out verticalizing some of our teams. I mean we've been very slow to move on any like broad change, but we'll test out a ton of things. So for us to just a need to pass snip test where it's like are we doing enough testing? Are we doing the piloting to to kind of see what's going to stick along term, and once we have enough data to make, you know, an intelligent decision from there, then we'll make a move. So we actually we move fast. We test them out, but we broad changes are very, very slow and I think, as you know, like is your building a sales organization, especially when it's forming, like we're coming from position to strength. Any massive change, like people are fear change. If you're the transition and all the unknown. So we're very conservative there. So I think for us it's just we're obsessed with efficiency, gain Zoh and and looking at data to see what makes sense. So it just but making sure that you have enough lines in the sea, so to speak, to see what's going to buy it and what do you want to move on by you feeling like, when you go to try something new, that there's kind of a backbone of data to help you or, as part of your proposal and trying something, saying hey, here's the data one of mine to look to see if this is going to work or not. Exactly. I think it's that it's like sometimes like hey, here's an assumption, here's like my hypothesis around it. Let's test it out. Let's do it in this low risk environment, like the foots on the ground, like we're doing in New York City, very low risk or so much opportunity there. And, like you know, we're not going to go launch it a mobile Alabama yet. So I think we'll look at there's is an effect of an asier war markets. Will look at certain pockets of seeing Louis. It tests that out. So it's really for proof a concept, which is exciting. Like you want that. You don't want to be in a situation where the only time you derate or change is when you have like a proven concept and you've seen everybody else do it and you went to a seminar like that's fun, but that's not nearly as exciting as like empowering your leaders is say, if that's a great idea, right up a business proposal, but let's give it a shot. And I think it's part of course, culture as a company where you know a lot of people thrive under that too, and some of our best ideas, similar best products internally, have come from that mindset, whether it's a hack week or whether it's somebody who's seeing a need in the marketer and industry and wants to fill it. Cool man, why, how can people get a hold of you if they have any questions or want to connect? Yeah, tell people to reach out to my linkedin and I'm not sure how I can share that publicly, but feel free to reach out to me. They're all my information is public there. But yeah, cool man. Well, Hey, really appreciate your insights and the way you're thinking about things and like way to revive middle of America. Man, Hey, you know what, man, there's our...

...mission statement as a company's economic compronment. There's a lot of cool things going on in the middle of the country. Is what I'll say. I'm a coast kid, New York, Seattle, Simsco where I lived it as an adult in my lessons. But man, there's a lot going on middle country. Come don't just fly over St Louis, stop by. All right, man, Hey, we'll keep you up again soon, but really great catching up and we'll talk to again. So, everybody, thanks for joining us on the sales engagement podcast. Will catch you next time. All right. Thanks mark. This was another episode of the sales engagement podcast. Join US at sales engagementcom for new episodes, resources and the book on sales engagement coming soon. To get the most out of your sales engagement strategy, make sure to check out outreach die Oh, the leading sales engagement platform. See you on the next episode.

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