The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

The Surprising Truth Behind Square’s Success: a Rare Combo of New Tech & Old School Sales Tactics w/ Tom Hanrahan


Square: It’s led by one of the great CEOs of our time, Jack Dorsey. On the surface, it can be easy to think Square’s moving at lighting speed, constantly creating technology that’s changing their industry.

You’d be totally correct.

But you’d also be right if you thought that they had an old school sales mentality:  boots-on-the-ground, literally knocking-on-the-door sales tactics. Somehow, they’ve combined both.

We know because we talked to the Head of Sales, Tom Hanrahan. This guy’s an anomaly himself.

He started his sales career selling uniforms with Aramark before moving to NYC to work for LivingSocial as a Sales Leader. Next up was Seattle, with a small company named Amazon. Of course, you he had a stint in silicon valley. But his next move was unexpected: He took up the Head of Sales position for Square, and moved to St. Louis.

Tom came on our Sales Engagement Podcast to share how Square is not only pushing the envelope in POS and credit card processing, but it’s revolutionizing every sales tactic, by inventing new ones and combining old ones.

Their sales teams borrow from every category but fits in none.

You have to check this out.

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast,this podcast is brought to you by out reached at io the leading salesengagement platform, helping companies, sellers and customer success engagedwith buyers and customers in the modern sales era, check out salesengagementcom for new episodes, resources in the book on salesengagement coming soon. Now, let's get into today's episode, everybody welcome back to the salesengagement podcast on Mark Costa, Glo B pscals at outreach. I Have Tom Hanrahantoday with us, he's a VP of SNDD sales for the East Coast at Square. Hey Tom,how's Gong man, how's it going work. Think fortn me yeah, no problem! Whydon't you tell everybody a little bit about yourself before you get started?Yeah sure so I currently reside in St Louis Missouri Oversea or our salesteams in St Louis and New York, so about forty people, preach office BenWis Square for about four years now, but I'm a Pacific northwest native. SoI went to high school and college out there used to live in the Kirkon area,so very familiar with what you guys dealing with and ecended to be on thepodcast aet yeah yeah you're, just making fun of me because Oure Awesome,northwest Pacific Northwest Fall, wet weather right. That's right! That'sright! Yeah, OT, a lot of time for netflixing it for sure, but I mean it'sbetter than snt Louis. We almost had a ice storm on Friday and then sixtydegree weather on Saturday, so all over the place, ter yeah so and for the usethoug for you that don't know out reach is based in Seattle. So we get to dealwith the rain all the time, but it's not as bad being recently moed out here,as everyone says, in my opinion, Atle yeah, it's beautiful you get beautiful,with H, weather to and nice summer, so so Tom, a couple things I want to coveris a before we jumped on today we're talking a little bit about some coolstuff that you're experimenting with at Square. But I was in St Louis for anevent. Last week when we met, you told me this really cool story of how youguys kind of decided on St Louis as a... to based you know, east coastsales out of no think you also have ofvice in New York City. So whyt, youtake me through a little bit about like that part, because I think that reallyrelates to sales engagement from a standpoint of like costs and how youkind of scale out yeah. Definitely so I think too many times, sale organizations we think aboutcutting cost and that's like the only magic people focus on it. It's so farfrom the truth. So for US Wul Sink Louis specifically, our search kind ofstarted with our VP business at the time went to Jack Our CEO and we weregoing to hire consulting firm and look at all these different areas. At we goto Arizona. Do We build an Atlanta and basically, knowing that he's a seeingLouis Native said? Hey? Do you just want to do it in St Louis, and he youknow very excitingly, said yes, there's no need for a search lets build in StLouis and then from there. I think the assumptions that went into it is toocold. Is that snt Louis has you know fourmajin universities, but then thetwenty I or fifty mile radius right so tun of talent there? When we saw whenwe did our research, a lot of people would go out to Chicago Bu, New York,Ot, the boomering back to St Louis, so a healthy pipeline of sales,professional talent that we would see and then the assumptions that we wouldgive people. We would kind of be a different type of business in area kindof still have that tect feel but get people who wanted to be here longer tolook in to build their career and really felt committed to the overallmission of the company, and I think you know- We've been here for two and ahalf years now and you know, built the team overall for sales to just overforty people started with six built the office around four hundred people andas as we speak right now, the top two sales seems in the entire organizationcome out of St Louis. I think we've been pleasantly surprised and I thinkit far exceeded our expectations. Ere that midwestern work ethnic like whatit. What is the secret sauce? Do you think? That's Wright, think you get. Wewere chatting about this, but I think you know it's the people that we'veseen the year approach there, roll wit a level of humility, but also so strongwork ethic where they bring their lunch, fail they come in. You know they comein at eight o'clock. They leave it five thirty because they go on theirfamilies, but very committed to the science behind sales and not lookingfor this. You know we joke about it,...

...but this kind of snows like mentality,if I need something new every eighteen months, but really around perfectingtheir purrent role, so e can create new opportunities for them, and we've had aton of examples to give some contexts there. My team in two thousand andseventeen we had R team around twenty two and O that twenty two eh were ableto pronote eight people to different roles than the organization to progressthem through the individual contributor career progression, follso yeah, it'sso cool to take someone that doesn't have that kind of silicon balley. I gotto get a promotion. Every six months, mentality di o really learn er craft.You not talked about that as kind of old school sales goy. You know our first sales job. Ourpromotion was, we didn't, get fired and wathat's right yeah, you get the checkthat Checke it and bounce, and- and I think the other thing to do worth- ofcalling out there mark for anybody who is starting to build a salesorganization, whether it's in St Louis or in a ter one market is what we wereable to do is really challenge our bias. On the assumption T, we had around theexperience level that we wanted for our salespeople in the background so wherewe were targeting texhsales individual people who were doing field sales roles,and we really had to shift that in Sing Louis because there wasn't anything,there wasn't a yelp right that Wu there Wasnat outreaeit wasn't thing we couldpull from. So we really focus on formain things and I was finding peoplewho were coachable, who were hard working, motivating a motivated andcompetitive, and it really allowed us to kind of open up the net into who wecould bring in to our ecuosystem and interview andthen really commit on our end from an enablement side on Justsat Development,which I knew you do with their thscras. You have in house, but just you know,coming in training people up who are good people who want to work or and-and I think you see long term success from that and nd Sol's organization.You ve like a really cool story, always like the like these interestingdiscussions are like accentuated with an awesome story about a specificperson. Do you have a story? You could tell yeah so about individual I'll. Tell youspecifically. We had one person who is... in a teamly role, which is twolevels removed from where he was when he started. He started with support andI joke with him. When we interviewed him, he was kind of the kid on oursupport center that had like a snt Louis Hadti work backwards, and Iwasn't really sure what the appeal of this kid was. But one of his mannerscame up to me d. He said: listen, this kid's money and he's going to be reallystrong for you. It was kind of a process where he was a little unsureabout coming on the sales, because the bearable comp component he hadexperienced with retail, sells att before, but really high productknowledge, and I think we saw that a my conversation was sems like Hay. If youwork as hard as you're working now, you're going to be really successfulfast forward about two years later he's. Now, probably you know, you knowtripled his compensation. In two years it's been promoted twice in his offfast track to a managent role and recently just clalsed one of ourlargest businesses, Carlos Bakery, which is you know, famous for KikBospane buddy from from the TLC show, they're working on with us fore lookinginto roll the OT nationwide and brought in one of the larger deals, O'm, twothousand and eighteen so and he's a kid t. You know just had the behaviralskills just worked hard was extremely coachable, really motivated and andkeep from a sports background so had that competitiveness had that drive inthem, but there's an example where I see this all the time to our recruiters,we would have never hired him externally. We probably never hire himin one of our SIMPS COM, New York markets, Evit yeah. It's really Kye oneof the things that, in our conversation last week that just really kind ofstuck in my mind, was these four characteristics and how important andhow you know lucky, you guys were to identify those and one of them isn'thave you sold Sass or technnolity before right like how much do you thinkthat leads people astraight assume they have to hire somebody that sells andtechnology wel? I think you get you can handcup to it, and then it becomes kindof a stuff fulling Pressin, where you just rinse and repeat the same profile.You Ren into the same issues and to me the most important thing of buildingsomething that new is the culture sed of it right where you need people whoare ressilliant, Andy people who are... know, flexible agile, can kind ofhandle it adversity, but then then work autonomously to build things up andSolvem it new problems that may come up. So to me, I think of you know. I say thisO my managers, you need trench guys. You need people that ininto trencheswhen things are difficult. When there's a lot of uncertainty that you knowthey're going to be, you know mentally strong enough to fight through, and Ithink you know the mental strength or being emotionally intelligent, B andwon't fight through those things is probably the most important thing ofsales that I've seen in kind of my by twelve years of being involved in thebusiness, where I think we tend to over index on experience, but a lot ofthings. W E were doing that or compensating, because we have poornablement right, so ts, ers FROR, some companies, I getit like if you don't,have a training, Sab and you're kind of net new need to go an experiencebecause you know for marks and get on the phone and have to shatow everybodythat takes a ton of time away. So there's a balance there and so for us.We happen to be at the right time of our sale team being about two years oldof the time to where we knew we had training and place. We had an ilimentresources that hey what's really higher and develop these people through yeah.No, I'm condinced that the number one thing that it takes inan endeavor like what square I took a risk of doing atd moving to St Louis ishaving a strong person like you, not the Brown, those too much that canreally like rive, believes in it like what do they have to do to get you offof the coast and into the middle? Why di You d? It an that's a that's a goodquestion. I gotta ask a lot at when I first lenkt the role I think for me. Itwas you know I kind of did my valor exercise in what means a lot to me inmy career and before that I had an opportunity to move to New York first,but it was a team that was already established. It wasn't. The growthwasn't going to be promised to be as fast. It wasn't as exciting o anopportunity and I'm from New York. I Love New York City. So for me I did abio o like what do I love to? Do I love the coach. I love to build. I lovesolving that new problems and then I think fundamentally like the egosidewas. I really believe that if we hire these type of individuals and we committo the culture that we can create an amazing sales team that will just youknow, crush whatever go, we put in...

...front of them. So that drove me to makethe decision, but I will be honest. I had somementores and leaders at sinethat were very convincing in this opportunity and so t at thatdoesn't hurt. They definitely help. Yo see the big picture of kind of whatthis could be yeah. I think you know having somebody that's willing toembrace a challenge and as a builder, rather than someone that's a perfectoris a a KA characteristic. I mean they got lucky that they that you were ableto do that for them and I think and not Toka, but I think it's so important,though, where we've also tried to move teams and I've seen so other companiestoo. When you don't know somebody who get this a culture or t isn't willingto come from AC like there's such a trade off there. So I mean I would tellcompanies are thinking about doing this a lot of times compensation comes upand do you want to lower somebody's count because they're going to a tearto market or ther bonus involved and just pay whatever it is to get thatright person incy, because the amount of money you save from getting somebodyfrom that marker or what have you'R not moving? It is not worth it like get.Somebody who gets your culture understands like what you'R buildingand can go in and do that day, one yeah. It's amazing how the Penny pincherswill try to skip somebody on IFTK when in their first month they becausethey're such a good negotiator. They make the company a hundred K and betterdeal youow values. So that's Veragood, so ilsited well tell me a little bitwith this enablement piece that sounded like it was super important to. Can yougive me a little bit o idea of how you structure name? What your amnp time islike help me understand that a little bit yeah so I'll tell you I square nineyear old company Celseens four years old. So when I came on board as amanager about four years ago, we were still managers did all enablement right,so we didn't have a dedicated, even went to team until about the year. Iwas in wo right when San Louis started, so our ram time today is a six monthran process, but realistically how we structure the targets is you need to beclosing at the rate of a full, fully Ram Dae and in one three like at theend of t month? Three for you to hit your target on six, because we have ourreps manager book a business for the first ninety days. So there's somecommitment there to make sure we limit...

...surn risk, but then also tho get thebenefits of that. So it's not it's a hunter role, but they still have to dosome type of relationship management there so are Nablemen. We break intotwo pieces where one is really producxside, where it's Okay Square S,a mile long and NHD, like our sales people have to talk to every verticalanybody who takes a credit card payment. You have to be able to be a consultantthey're, very difficult, right, yeah, so there's a lot there and in the otherside is soff skills and we've started to where you know two years ago it wasalmost all product and then we were going to overhire from the sale skillsed right, sor nameenent wasn't in place, so we pull people who came fromYo came from enterprise when our car that understood how to negotiate AdObjectson handle. Now, as we shifted the profile and really said H Y we'regoing to develop people based off those four characteristics. We've nowintroduced, O Challenger Sale, we've introduced some different type ofnegotiation, trainings objectsion handling trainings that we'veoutsourced himself kept some stuff in house. So where now our sales softskill training is just as important as a product. Sad and I think that'ssomething we're going to continue to commit to you know in w thousand andNinteen you have a dedicated person just for St Louis, because they had ahigher need for Solf scales training. I would love to we don't yet ourenablement, just basically due to flexibility, is all based out of SanFrancisco. Right now we were team about four there, but we're looking to see ifwe can see that nother offices, you know in the future yeah and then how meunderstand kind of the rigor. Is it a classroom session once a day like howdid the? How do you guys deal with the product knowledge, training yeah? Imean it's a two week, Boo camp, where it's heavy. You go right to our square.One is kind of your introduction, Tho Square, a highlight weyouget to me withour CEO, but then from there and we're breaking out. You know all thedifferent products that we offer really deep payment knowledge training, whichis you know you can spend two weeks along underlearning, that paymentsintursty the merchant services tad when Merchan services and softhware sounderstanding where product wins. You hat to understand partners as well asin that two week, and then the second week is more the sout scale so week.One is all product like learn how to... what you're selling learn aboutthe product we to is how to do your job and how to do it. Well, then, in fromthere do this six months, we don't sussay two weeks and you're done. Wedidn't have like higher level off skill training and then API, like partnership,like some of that, like more complex up markets, pronuct training is later onin their onboarding process. Are you using any KINDOF who rules to helpfacilitate that or is all like Google Dog Google Forum we've gotten? I mean I laugh becausethere's a world where everything was goodg with the hocks and I would jumplike let's just picke another dock about I everything. So we have a coupleon IMEMENTALS tewe use today, wor grams, a partner of Aris that that we startedwith them from the very beginning. We looked at some other elemests off wherewe pileted some things, but nothing that we've subscribed to, and we do alot of different things, wit, woald, video and, and then we sill have somethings that leve in Google docto. Unfortunately yeah. How do you test for competency? This isalways like the thing that, like I think, a lot of people think about and don't really nail down.It's I'm guessing. You guys have it naile down but like how are you testingfor competency, like hey, we've reached a certain level of knowledge base sothat we can release these people to prospects and know that they're notgoing to like hurt us yeah. I mean we keep a bar right, so we have severaldifferent certifications. We have a point of sale cortification. We have avertical specific restaurant and retail certification t en we have like ageneral objection, handleaing negotiation, cerpification. If you anKnon, we have a scoring roup, brick that is developedent by our onboardingteam or en avlment team, but importnership with our sales managersand our salesmanage our front ly managers. I think this is reallyimportant, are very involved with those Cypifications, because it's one thingto have your inablenmen team say they're ready to go. It's another thingis: Have Your Front, Mi Maner say no okay! I know this person can produceand then we keep a bar of eighty percent if you score below eightypercent, like you're, not allowed to do your job until you past, so w we've hadsome people a and the colthing yearmark is the hiring manages making the callso we're not putting that pressure on... ablemen to say yes or no, it's theharm indersin. Are they ready to go because, as you know, if you putsomebody on the floor or in the field, who is not feel like, they have thecommency level you're just going to be dragged away from Hem, so we'll makethem go back and retest there and I want to say probably ninety pecent ofpeople passin te First Gout, but I mean we're not sy about feeling. People wereneeded because it's just a good learning opportunity, especially earlyon yeah. No doubt I think that if you have certifications, they have to havesome teeth and people need to see the teeth every once in a while or it'sjust oyeah rubber stamp that and if the word gets around, you don't really needto know your stuff because nothing's going to happen, if you don't a hundredpercent and we've tried to shift these certifications to where there's a testportion, other word's like a knowledge base, but then also a role play to. Wereally want people to understand not just the product like that's your bareminimums, you know the product, but how do you? Where do we win, and how do youposition the product, which is equally as important as you know, in any salesrole versus just reading a list of features and what kind of roles do youhave there? You have ae str like how we understand thet sales, osit yeah, soyeah we've started to specialize our entire team about three years ago, sowe have an ATR which is a an account development Rep. what they do is leadqualification, so squar sill has a lot of people come in bound that areinterested in learning more about square. We have our aturs Er to kind offeel talks Erout, who should talk to sales? We Shoul stop onboard becausesomeone boarding is so big part of our business. So we want to make sure we'retalking to the most complex know, upmarket high value deals that werepassing to our reps, our bdrs visit develover webs. They do all of our colcalling so bedeo ill pair with a number of AES, depending on the segment, whatthey need for piflind support and they'll go out, and there they're justhunting they're going to go, find meetings, they're going to go, calltrough, pipelane that exists and try to accelerate opportunities there. Andthen, on top of that, we have two stacks of E. Actually, three orsndsegment, which count executive, theyre, closing both indown and out bound leadswithin a revenue range of a hundred thousand dolars a year in credit cardprocess in the twenty million Armin Market Team, which is exclusivelyoutbound, so they're kind of our...

...outbound engine. They'll focus onthings anywhere from a million dollars at fifty milliondollars a year, and then we have our enterprise Eang, which it's on top,which just is similar to like a national accountteam. So those are theroles like the salestack for support resources. We also have a solutions.Engineering team that works with our partnership team to do any type of APIintigration or we send em to call I custom, build but build for a verticalor build for you know dressful market, and then we also have sales operations,as you know like just helping the House data sciencist there and thenprofessional services which would help what onboarding so any tenders acomplex deal or somewhere. We have to go install. You know in person, likeour professional service team, for a fee will go out and do that and theykind of sport sal seem as well, along with the sales nnavl in the team. Soyou tar to see the specialization where close to thirty percent of our entireSTAP is tal support resources yeah that that's a great ratio. Do you feel like?Are Your BDR supporting those Nidmarket Aes or just the SNBA both so initiallythey were in place really to sport them minmark and enterprising, because wehad that inbound, but more o less. But as we've grown the team we tried togrow top a funnel. So I think at some point it all becomes an outdown team,but they're sil today for us to do that, you know in a responsible way. We hadBDR resources dedicated as to me today to kind of help, along with theexpectation of AE, store, stop bound as well. Are you having midmarkets forsouthbound and Snd? Is it like part of the culture or just the SNB guys? Well,it's it's right. Now, IT'S A necessity right! I mean whether it's a part ofthe culture. Not is I a different conversation, maybe for another episode,but it's something: We've had o Shit Freks I mean as you. We call itchampagn problems where it's your square you're, getting all these Inbounleas and we trying to figure out like what's the responsible and trategic wayto split that up people get a little bit dependent on that. So trying to getthem to build into their process. You know changing anybody's process daytoday, there's a huge risk attast to that, so we've slowly trid to step intothat and support. It would be t our resources, but it very much is anexpectation at this one for people who...

...want to be successful, yeah cool wha.One thing that we talked about before got on the call this morning was thiskind of cool experiment that you're in the early stages of boots on the groundkind of like going back, and I thought they was so cool because so many peopleawe ge on the podcast and that I talked to want to know about new schoolmethodologies and like what is at new thing, what new tech and all this, andwhen I talk to you you're, like man, we're doing that, but we're also likegoing back to the old school man boots on the ground. I was like you got totell me some more about that, so how d we understand, what that littleexperiment about yeah? Definitely so I think, for a square I mean we try notto tick ourselves too seriously, where we would say we have to over engineeror think things and sometimes jus kind of think like what can be impactul.What could be effected? Where can you meet your seller so recently that muchshoul be seld the public launch, but we lant square terminal which essentiallyis a product that should replace these brick terminals that exist in these anthese small shops that are going to have a native point, a sale, but theyneed to partner Er somebody to sake credit card payments, so in New YorkCity, specifically as well as some other major metros around the countrywe ere putting goots on the ground. Just go: Do the door show the hardwarywere very confident once you see the harder once you see ther product, it'sgoing to really draw your attention, get you to want to learn more, and youknow, set those appointments for account executives to go in and see ifthere's a relationship where we CUN compement their business or or maybereplacer their brick terminal. So it's been it's early stages, but it's beenreally effective. Today, it's one of ours, a two X are conversion rate inregards to touch to getting an appointment and we've seen win rates goup significantly as well. This also came apart from from US understandingwhat our compettors are doing. Where squil is it square? Is a paymentscompany, but it's also point a sale company, so we're dealing with a lot ofresellers. What resellers will do, as I have five point of sales to sell? Ihave three hundred contracted account executives and we don't want thatexperience because we want to control your experience with square, but wealso know that sometimes our sellers expect somewhat of a personal touch toit. So it's really justunderstanding our plients and trying to try new waysto meet them in the fields. Can you see...

...that movie about Ray Crock andMcDonalds? Oh yeah, absolutely UN totally! Imagine the square guy pullingup in a muic with a square terminal, athat put them in his back and likegoing in there and throwing it on the counteris that how it works. You knowwhat I hope that we approach with that level of swagger, maybe not te, be itmight just be some Nikes, because we're doing everything on the on fee. Youknow in New York City, so not not tho mix ISS to drive, but yeah man. I wouldnot mind anybody going in O just dropping it. downseting Guves, yourpayment terminal, you, here's your milkshake machines, grat movie Eit, Michael Katon, didamazingthat new. That was a baller movie. My kids actually walkd thatmovie and got a lot out of it about like first of all, make sure you don'tput yourself in a position to get screwed ane. That's it yeah. It's kind of like thisweird thing: where you're rooting for him, then you hate him at the same time,but it's a good story on CAPITALISTM. I the way O yeah right right. So when youhave people going on the street, how are you supporting them like with theirfollow up and all that kind of stuff? Do you have a team with people that arekind of riding in their wake or those reps onthe streets like completely responsible for everything after they make thatinitial engagement, so we'll parter them up with a BDR, so we'll have a BDRattach to an account executive and they'll. take a zone. Ne'll say heythis neighbor little. Italy is what we want to focus on and we've created somedifferent technology where we can do it in the field. UPLOADER right away,longand call Whitin sales for us and kind of have all those appointments, sothey literally working from a tablot right in the FIEM, but we try to betrategic where it's like. Okay, we don't want to go to what, because Iwant to see how affected is, can be on a personal level. So it's like. Okay,here's these fifty businesses, let's go touch all these. Fifty businesses ind aforty eight hour span. Let's see our conversion, our fonal metrics fromthere and in from there it's at least a seven point touch for followupI'massuming like by touch three. We normally get some type of engagement.What is the response from prospects? I mean squares, an e unique place wherepeople still wanto have a conversation.

So I think it's been very positive andwhat also we look at this you know toohful. Obviously we want to winbusiness right, but we're on consultative sales organization. Thatalso has a good feedback. So one thing that's been really beneficial as wemaunch product Baus. We going with this new hardware that we're really excitedabout, because tickat see no three or four years it developed and they'll,give us an TBEX, say: Hey, we actually wanted to be intergator. We actuallywanted to look like this o. We need this feature and that's Equaly asimportant for us as we're building, because we always want to build insideout from a sellar perspective, not from what we just think is a great idea. Sothe responsie been really positive and I think we've had some early successwith win rates, an getting people on the square, but also some amazingfeedback that really is itviable to us. So I want to kind of finish things up,but before I doon ask one last question: BEC E, you guys are mean the breadth ofthe team that you have in Stlouis in terms of responsibility that the coolstuff that you're doing you know. Obviously you have like a super famousprogressive CEO. That's probably throwin crazy ideas at you. How do you as a salesleader that wantsto be innovated and pushing the envelope? How are you prioritizing whatyou go after in terms of you know getting that top of the funnel salesengagement stuff taking care of like how do you say, listen of all the noise?This is the one signal I want to pay it yeah. I mean it's a good question. Ithink it's really leaning on you know our operations. People are datascientists to say like let's test a lot, but let's react to trends unless reactto data, and that's a discipline that you know is built a long time ago, likewhat our sales team ent and that's how we that's will. Let us a specialization,that's whul! Let us start to test out virticalizing. Some of our teams, Imean we've, been very slow to move on any like broad change, but well testout a ton of things so for us to just anneed to pass snimtest words like. Arewe doing enough testing? Are we doing no piloting to kind of see? What'sgoing to stick long term and en once we have enough data to make you know anintelligence decision from there, then we'll make a Mo. So we actually we movefast. We Test Hemot, but we broad changes are very, very slow and an, Ithink, as you know, like is you're...

...building a sales organization,especially when it's performing like we're coming from position O strength.Any massive chain like people are fear, changed, Ey, feel the transition andall the unknown, so we're very conservative there. So I think for us,it' Ist we're obsessed with efficiency games, though, and then looking at datato see what makes sense so just but making sure you have enough lines inthe sea, sor of speak to see what's going to byt. And what do you want tomove on or you feeling like when you go to try something new, that there's kindof a backbone of data to help you or is part of your proposal and tryingsomething saying: Hey: here's the Dateou Ene am ine to look to see ifthis is going to work or not exactly. I think it's that it's like, sometimeslike a hears, an assumption. Here's like my hypolesis around it. Let's testit out: Let's do it in this low risk environment, like the foots on theground like we're doing in New York City, very low risk, theres, so muchopportunity there, like you, know we're not going to go watch their mobilealabami. Yet so I think we'll look at h as an effect of a eterial war markets.Well, look at certain pockets of SAING LOUIS IT test that out. So it's reallyfor proof, a concept which is exciting, like you want that you don't want to bein a situation where the only time you iterator change is when you have like aproven concept and you've seen everybody else. Do it and you went to aseminar like that's fun, but that's not nearly as exciting as like, empoweringyour leaders to say, if that's a great idea, rite up a business proposal onbut,let's give it a shot, and I think it's part of course culture as a companywhere you know a lot of people thrive under that to and some of our bestideas, some ere bus products internally have come from that mindset, whetherit's a hack week or whether it's just somebody who's seeing a need in themarketer and indutry and wants to fellit cool man Wai. How can people geta hold of you if they have any questions or want to connect? Yeah tellpeople to reach out to my linkedin and I'm not sure how I coal ensare thatpublicly but feel fee to reach out to me there. All my information is publicthere, but yeah cool man. Well, hey really appreciateyour insights and the way you're thinking about things and like Wai, torevive middle of America, man. You know...

...what man there's a our mission samng asa company's economic enpomer and there's a lot of cool things going onin the middle of the country is what iull say: I'm a coast, Kid New York,Seattle, Som Sco, where I lived as an adult in my adolescencs, but manthere's a lock going on. I midlothe country come don't just fly over, sayLoise, stop by all right hen, hey we'll kip you upagain soon, but really great catching up and we'll talk to yogain. Soeverybody thanks for joining us on the sales engagement podcast, will catchyou next time. allright thanks mark. This was another episode of the salesengagement. PODCAST join us at sales, engagementcom for new episodes,resources and the book on sales. Engagement coming soon to get the mostout of your sales engagement strategy, make sure to check out O' reach to iothe leading sales engagement platform. See You on the next episode.

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