The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode 324 · 5 months ago

The Comprehensive Encyclopedia of Sales Plays

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

What is the ONE playbook that will help my team drive predictable & repeatable pipeline, once and for all?

Aiming to answer that question, Becc Holland & Scott Barker deliver an answer on the one overarching playbook that can create predictable & repeatable pipeline for Sales teams of ALL sizes, SDR teams at ALL stages, and ALL based on data!

Join us as we hear from Becc Holland about:

  • New and different sequences
  • Identifying what leads are the correct ones for your business
  • How to make connections with leads and close sales

More information about Becc Holland and today’s topic at:

For more engaging sales conversations, follow The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, our website, or anywhere you get podcasts.

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast. This podcast is brought to you by outreach, the leading sales engagement platform, and they just launched outreach on outreach, the place to learn how outreach. Well does outreach? Learn how the team follows up with every lead in record time after virtual events and turns them into revenue. You can also see how outreach one's account based plays, manages reps and so much more using their own sales engagement platform. Everything is backed by data pulled from outreach processes and customer base. When you're done, you'll be able to do it as good as they do. had to outreach dot io slash on outreach to see what they have going on. Now let's get into today's episode. Back Well, how you doing? I'm doing great. I'm sure I'M gonna learn just as much as I did the first time, because it's a it's a lot of stuff, and I want to preface this with like, get ready, people like this is uh, you're gonna be hitting value left, right and center. We will be going fast. There will be a lot thrown at you, so buckle up, get ready. So I essentially want to just dive in here. The really the impetus behind this was I started about four years ago personalizing at scale, essentially introducing personalization into my messaging, and that started the journey for me of understanding, okay, if I was doing a personalized book, How could I really build a play, you know, essentially, because it's going to be you know, structure for every single person. But it was almost like a mad libs format. So I started thinking. I'm like, well, okay, I could build a shell, you know sequence, essentially within an outreach, you know, to say like okay, this is where I personalized, etcetera, etcetera. And then I started thinking, okay, well, what I would have to basically limit down to play in this case. So I started fanning out into a couple of different plays on attribution source, and so that started a journey of starting to stack up plays and measure them against one another from a sequencing perspective with an outreach. So why don't we just jump in here? So traditionally there's only been two categories of lead source. There has been inbound and there has been outbound. An inbound is usually defined as everything from demo requests to content download to Webinar registrant to event attendee, you know, etcetera, and what I found on my teams is these are all very different, all very different in terms of buyer intent, all very different in terms of their user journey, and so I essentially wanted to break these out today and give you a couple of plays to think about. You know, I'm going to shoot this encyclopedia just for a graphical perspective at the beginning, and then we're gonna we can dive into each one of the plays that you have available and I'm going to include the onset how you can run a personalization messaging strategy within these plays. At Large, but from a high level, there's four categories within the this encyclopedia stive in here, far left is going to be inbound, inbound being defined as a hand raiser, someone who wants to evaluate your product, and then far right being defined as cold outbound. So cold outbound meaning there's no reason to reach out to them other than personalization, essentially something that we've done. They've done. So basically, inbound is going to be, like I said, hand raisers, and this is, you know, prospect knows your company. Outbound is going to be someone who doesn't know you at all. Maybe you define them with an a B M strategy or like. I want to dive into this account. Middle left is going to be what I call postbound. So postbound is going to be non hand raising marketing leads. So, for instance, we're going to go into a couple of them here, but I have like content downloads or Webinar registrants. So we're going to go into how to leverage these kind of leads to get in front of more of them. How do, from an automation perspective, trimount the ones that you don't want to talk to in the ones that you do and, you know, specialize in the ones that you do, and then also what kind of messaging strategy to do on the back end. You know what this lead looks like. But postbound is going to be middle left, and this is non hand raising marketing leads, and the Middle Right is going to be what I call bridge bound. So on the inbound case, I use one too many messaging only, meaning if someone requests a demo, you don't need to personalize to them. They're coming into you, they just want to want to talk about the product. Outbound, you're going to use one to one messaging only for personalization for postbound and bridge bound. I combine one too many messaging of like high. I noticed that you attended the sales hacker, you know, Webinar on the comprehens and encyclopedia sales place. But, more importantly, and then you transition to your personalization and the same within bridge bound. You know, I noticed that you did this thing and but more importantly, I saw that you wrote this article, et Cetera. So there's gonna be four categories underneath bridge bound. This is is going to be the mediat...

...category that we're going to go into. There's gonna be two plays, or two buckets of plays, that are going to raise the likelihood that your prospects will take a meeting, but not necessarily that they are going to buy. And then there's going to be two buckets of plays that raise the likelihood that they will ultimately buy because there's a higher need for your product, and you can define this before you even try to get a meeting with them. So I just want to ever want to have this in their mind. You know, of what this looks like, so from a ascetic reference you'll know what I'm talking about. But let's go ahead and jump back into the deck Um and I want to want to unpack each one of these plays for every sequence that I'm doing and I'm building a sequence for each one of those plays that will go into all of them. I essentially do essentially do the same type of infrastructure for the sequence itself. Now there's some variation dependent on the play, but most of them I'm running a sixteen step process over twenty one business days. But they linked in research step on the Front End, which I'm spending five minutes where I get to know the prospect go to their linked in profile, tease out three personalized premises that I can relate back to my value prop save them within outreach, for instance, and that will fuel the rest of the sequence, within the sequence itself. Out of the sixteen steps, there's one linkedin research step, five emails and ten cold calls, two voicemails in those cold calls and I'm more aggressive on the back end than I am on the front end. So essentially I take after the theory of M J Hoffman. He's the author of Yu y you now, and he did some research on the cadence to reach out and he found that if you are more aggressive in the front end of your sequence and then you peter off near the end. You're essentially too overwhelming in the beginning and then you teach your prospect that if they just wait long enough, you'll go away. So you want to flip that, essentially. So this is a structure that I use. I essentially am easier on my prospect in terms of the cadence of outreach earlier on in the sequence and I'm more aggressive near the back end. So there's five pods relate to the outreach. Day One, one to cold email, cold call, cold call, day eight, eight nine, cold email, cold call, cold call, day thirteen, thirteen, fourteen, you know. So there's a six day business cell to here, there's a four day business sell to here, and then the third pot is day thirteen, thirteen fourteen, you know, day eighteen, eighteen, nineteen and one. And so right here near the back end, you'll see a lot of conversion. So the highest conversion steps for me are usually cold email one, cold email at two and then this last break up email. So usually three and four are actually the lowest conversion rates in terms of the sequence, but they're building up to this break up email where I see a very high amount of conversion on this and I want to be very brief on this so I stay on time. But what I mean by personalization, no matter what the debate is on Linkedin, personalization, as Google defines it, is one to one only, meaning I am talking to Scott about something that Scott did and if I can replicate that across many different people, then it then becomes relevance. So relevance is one too many that I can repeat it. One to one is personalization. So what I mean by personalization is not business acumen, you know, not industry relevance, not buyer Persona Relevance, all of that is relevance only. personalization is one to one in terms of I'm speaking to Scott about Scott, something Scott did. This is where I've seen the lion's share of my conversion. So you know, T L G R. I took three teams, you know, from anywhere four x at minimum to an eight x conversion based on including some piece of personalized data. There are five different different buckets to this and I'm going to cover this within thirty seconds. If you want to know more, if you go to flip the script dot Co, if there's a session on personalization at scale. But essentially within personalization you have a self authored bucket. So this would be any kind of content that Scott authored himself. Webinar, he was a part of article posts and you want to be thinking about how do I relate this back to my product? Number two is engaged content, anything that Scott like, shared or commented on. Three is going to be a self identified traits. This is profile line, headline, company line, essentially what Scott wrote about himself on his linkedin and these are ranked in terms of order that you should see conversion, meaning buckets one and two are the best, down to bucket four and five. The fourth bucket is going to be juncture, schools attended, personal interests, hobbies, recommendation, skill endorsement, anything non really business related that you then need to tie back to your value prop and then number five is going to be company level data. So this bucket is really is it a you know, solid is a Liquida? It's really a GEL. Right. So technically, if you do something that's specific to outreach, for instance for Scott, you could replicate that across too many users. But it's about Scott's company and company and specific. So that's why I included here. But this is the lowest bucket. A conversion usually, regardless of I C P eight to eighty five...

...percent at the time I can find something within buckets one through four and I can find three premises and under five minutes. So most of this. If you want to know more about personalization, I have a whole section of my website called personalization point where I go much deeper on this topic. But to stay on topic, this is just as a precursor. So this is what I mean by personalization. If you're going to run a book with personalization and relevance. I have inbound, postbound, bridge bound and cold outbound. So, for instance, for inbound, like I mentioned, you don't need to personalize, they're coming to you. So it's like, you know high, let's set up a time, essentially, and so you can automate that. postbound and bridge bound, which will go into all the examples of these plays in in just a moment, is basically I would automate for every single one of these cadences based on attribution. Let's so let's take content downloads, for instance. High a reason for my outreaches. I noticed that recent downloaded blank and you can put a dynamic tag or it couches what the content was and it says but more importantly, and that's where the REP would go in and essentially insert the personalizations and bridge bound the same thing. For instance, if I have no one, too many play, then essentially I would have to go all personalization, which is high Scott. Reason why average, I noticed you download or you wrote this article on x, Y and Z. One Line is specific. That sit up to me was x. So that's from a high view, how you can structure the sequences for each one of these plays. So let's dive into what each one of these plays are. Now no further. I'm not gonna Bait me one any longer. So far left is going to again be inbound. And how I'm defining inbound. If you went to your SDR team and told them, you know, how do the inbound leads look? They would say, well, what do you mean by inbound? They'll tell you that any content downloads are much different in terms of conversion than a demo request. And what they'll tell you is they'll say that the content download leads aren't as good. And what they mean by not as good as not necessarily the company titles or the title of the person who's downloading the content. What they mean is the buyer intend isn't there. So with the demo request, someone's asking to see my product, whereas a content download they're not. Essentially they want to know the topic of the continent. So I am defining inbound for nomenclature's sake as true hand raisers. There's only two types of plays here. You have demo requests and you have people who come in via the chat box. So pretty straightforward. Middle Left, which is postbound, which you would incorporate, you know, one too many messaging along with personalization for one to one, is essentially postbound. As a reminder, is non hand raising marketing leads, and where I got the term is in basketball. I'll watch a lot of NBA and basketball. Someone who is between the top of the key and the basket is called a post right in the middle. So that's where I incorporated the post term. But this is a non hand raising marketing lead and there are twelve different types of leads that I know of within post bound. Number one is content downloads. Two, Webinar registrants, three, buyer intent so for instance, if you're using a provider, some of these plays are predicated on you using a piece of tech. So number three is a great example. If you know of g two a trust radius, they are third party, your review sites. So let's say that I wanted to go check out, you know what other people are saying about outreach and specific you know I would go to g two, I look up the reviews and when I did that, G two and trust radius can gate back to outreach, saying like hey, someone from flip the script is researching you. So those are what we call buyer intent leads. You know, these are for per just so this is not, you know, a free type of lead, but these are are review sites, and the great things about these a lot of times you're gonna get the middle of the funnel for buyer intent, meaning people who you've already demoed, who are simply, you know, double checking to see what other people think about reviews. But sometimes that the onset. People are doing more research than ever before before they engage with you. forresters did a report on all the things people consider before they buy something. There are twenty variables. In the top three were number one. They go peer to peer, meaning I call Scott and I'm like, Hey, who are you using for data? Number two, I go to industry influencers and number three, I want to read reviews, essentially what their users have said. So a lot of people are in their sweatpants, so to speak, you know, in their bed, trying to do as much research as they can. You go down another sixteen variables and the last thing that people consider is a demo. They don't want to jump on a demo because they know they're going to be sold and are going to be pushed,...

...you know, etcetera. It would be my guests, you know. So this is a great way to surface people who are checking you out from the lead generation perspective and you can put them into a play and in pattern or based on some language and try to get them to actually jump on a democrall with you. Number four is going to be free trials or a freemium model. I'm working with a number of clients that this is actually a really, really hefty play that we're using and seeing a lot of early success with, is freemium. I my one. You know, I can't go into messaging today, I don't have the time, but my one ask here would be if I, for instance, I downloaded slack the free version, if slack wanted to sell me on a paid version, essentially they would have to solve for a pain point that I can't currently solve for with the free version. So I would keep that in mind if you're selling freemium, that you need to be thinking about what your user experiences and what would I have to pitch about this product that encourage someone, that would alleviate a problem or a pain point for them that you can't currently alleviate with the free version. So, Pandora, it's like I don't have the pain point that I want to, you know, skip the ads. It's like I can sit through a couple of ads. So I think get my gears thinking about that when I'm reaching out to premium. Five is event attendees. That's, you know, virtual event attendees for now, kind of like Webinar the same thing. Six is followers on your social, your company social, so Linkedin facebook or instagram. You know you have a lot of followers. Seven is people who interact with your company on social but aren't followers. So people who are sharing the content, commenting on it, liking it, etcetera. These are different buckets. You know, there are a number of youtube channels that I watch that I don't share, that I follow, some that I follow, some that I share and comment and like, you know, and like, and some that I do neither. So you know, number six is going to be people who are following you on social and number seven is going to be are interacting, but there are groups of both. So social media is a wild beast. It's proven a couple of things to us. Number one, that everyone wants to be famous. Number two, that everyone craves validation, because the first thing we want is likes, shares, comments, etcetera. But number three, I'd be thinking through how you use social media. So I want you to compare for a second in your mind the amount of times that you have posted on social media in the last month, and then I want you to cross compare that to the amount of times that you've logged onto social media and you have looked at other people's posts but not posted yourself. I mean it's like what a thousand and one right. So even though people aren't posting necessarily, they can be looking very different buckets here number eight at blog subscriber, a nine newsletter. Scott, you look like you had a question. I do. Yeah, I was gonna let you finish this thought. Where would you put an open source community version offering when you also sell a paid version? Is it like the free trials post bound category? Same thing? Yes, I mean this is again. This is marketing efforts, non hand raising marketing efforts. So the community, I would imagine, is run, you know, by the marketing team. So and it is piped over by the marketing team by definition. So I would likely put a community in here. Well, you just added a play what's actually I was falling asleep last night or no, I had a dream last night when I woke up and I'm like, Oh, there's another play there's people who are out of office. I was like, Dang it. So this play book is bumping up and up and up. But this is the community. would be a great example if you're running community. So eight, blog subscriber, nine newsletter. Ten, dark funnel. So this is gonna be dark funnel providers. Are sixthens and be Moore too, great examples. But basically this is people who are researching your product on Google, for instance, and not doing anything else about it. So they can use cookies to track that and essentially rank people higher up the funnel. So dark funnels people who have not done any marketing action but are still in the funnel. So remember people are staying choked up topic way to like top, top top of funnel before they engage with anything. Eleven is high value M Q l. So the only reason someone would become an m q l but not for one of these other pre existing reasons, would be if someone's opening a lot of your marketing emails, then likely they will reflex into depending on your definition of M Quel. And number twelve is going to be website views. So I'm going to go through an entire list of what I know, now with community, subcommunity, breaft of community, but the entire list of what I know. But I'm not necessarily going to take an opinion on whether some of these plays, you know, I like them or not, whether I've seen success, etcetera. So just keep that in mind. This is going to be a comprehensive list. So that's everything for postpount. That's all. If you like them, that, I'm sorry, linked twice. If you really like to play. If I...

...really like the play, I think that the shorter list for me is right. Ones that I don't like. There's a few that I don't like, but I would say for each org this is going to be very different. So it depends on what product you sell. You know, SMB mid market enterprise, general business, to SMB mid market general business enterprise, what kind of vertical are you, etcetera. So you're gonna be running some conglomeration of these plays, but certainly not all of them. But so I would be more married to my what I like is revenue, right. So I have no opinion post data. Right. So it's like I am. If I would give myself a pat on the back for anything in my career, it's that I am extremely open handed with I have an opinion, a strong opinion beforehand, and I voice it, you know, but I'm extremely open to what the data will tell me. So there's been some place where I'm like not in a billion years is that going to work, and it worked and I'm like well, let's double down, you know, let's let's make it happen. But so let's go into bridge bound and this is a way to do segmented outbound based on a one too many premises that it's a non marketing lean. This is the most exhaustive category and all of these plays can be run by a conglomeration of rules. It's going to depend on your organ do you have an SDR team? Do you have an eight e team that self prospects? Do you have an R M, a m up cell, Cross Cell Renewal Team? And so these are all the plays cross org and I certainly have fiery opinions on who should be owning what, usually within context, but this is just gonna be an entire list of all the plays you can run for a pipeline generation perspective. So the bucket on the left hand side, immediate Middle Right, was the two buckets that will raise the likely hood that your prospect will take a meeting but not that they will ultimately buy. So the first bucket underneath that is going to be bridge bound based on relationship. This is the most extensive bucket. So number one is companies who share a common VC with your company. Number two is going to be companies that share a common VC with your customers. This is an example of one that I thought not in a million years would work, you know, and I'm like, I'll put together the language and you know, put together language worked insatiably well. I was like, okay, while it does. So I wouldn't discount this play. But Common VC with your customers. So you have, you know, let's say outreach has three customers, for instance. You know they have whatever, Twilio, cloud, flare and page, your duty, and you want to go into let's say instructure, and they share a common vc of bestimer venture partners. So they share the common vc with the customer of yours that you have. Number three is referral to the network of your happy customers. So I mean the status is that of people are willing to make a referral. Customers are willing to make referral, not even happy customers, just customers in general. But only seven percent of reps asked for them. So this can be a really great play. My biggest advice here is do the work for them of who you want them to make the intro to, go through their linkedin and scour through. Number four, inbound referrals from your VC partners. So let's say Ross Beastman, who's zero, and it works with Bessim were quite a bit. You know, let's say that he sent in an inbound referral and he said, Hey, you need to talk to this person. So some of these, this is an instance of you can't control the quantity of this right, can't control how often that Ross makes an introduction. But I would always say put it in a actual sequence. So number one, you can make sure you follow up with that lead. Number two, you can measure the effectiveness of that play. You know, so you can increase it. So I will always side with billy bean of like you can't improve anything really that you can't measure. So you need to start with measuring it by sequencing into a place so you're very intentional about what you're doing. At number five is outbound to the network of the VC partner. So let's say I, instead of taking leads from Ross, I'm actively going to his linkedin and looking through his connections and saying like, is there anyone you know I'm trying to prospect into page your duty? Is there anyone that Ross knows that I can essentially prospect into? Six is in bound referrals from your C suite. So this would be, you know, manny sending a lead over to Scott and saying like hey, you need to talk to this person. That's a deal. Seven would be Scott is going to manny's network on Linkedin, and you know it's kind of awkward if they're friends of manny trying to push for the meeting. And that's not, quote unquote, his his place necessarily right. He's, you know, much higher making much more strategic decisions. So this is Scott getting gritty and reaching out to...

...someone within Manny's network. Eight inbound referrals from your advisors. Nine outbound to the network of your advisors. Really in in the inbound situations they're great, but you're not in control of volume. In the outbound situation, you will impress your advisors by, and I would always say do the homework for them, find the referrals for them and then paying them based on context beforehand. Both of those steps are very important. To do the homework for them, to show it, to not make the lift beyond them, and then also ask them for advice. Maybe they're willing to make the referral in for you. So I'd always reach out to them to ask beforehand. Ten is inbound referrals from the Board Board of directors. Eleven is outbound to the network and the board of directors. You're starting to see a pattern here. Twelve is inbound referrals from your customer advisors. So, for instance, when I was at chorus, Jake Renny was on our customer advisor, Advisory Board, and we love the products. So you know, twelve would be jake sending Um sending me over some referrals. Thirteen would be me going to Jake's connections on linkedin seeing if he's connected to anyone at Patriotar because I want to prospect into him. Fourteen is inbound referral from an influencer. Fifteen is going to be outbound to the network of an influencer that maybe your company is tied to very tightly. Sixteen is an inbound referral from a non sales employee. So essentially, again this is your bottleneck to it's inbound, you know, but essentially, let's say that Scott Works in cs or let's take Danny kitch over an outreach shout out. Danny absolutely love him, and let's say he knows someone who potentially wants to buy outreach. You know, then Danny makes an intro to an account executive or to an SDR to set up that time. So the reason I put non sales employee here is because if you're a sales employee and you have a referral, then freaking close it. Do It yourself. Mostly closers will go out to their own network. Speaking of their own network, number seventeen is going to be non sales hires that used to work at a company. So let's say, let's stick with Twilio for instance. You know, let's say Danny Kish, you know, came inbound from twilio and all of a sudden he wants to make, you know, a difference at the organ outreach and so he makes an intro to the people a twilio because hopefully, you know, he has a good relationship. So this is a someone who used to work at the company who now works at your own company. And Eighteen is going to be your own network. So usually this is the first thing that account executives exhaust, but you know, I just want to outline them here so that you have them. Eighteen a would be friends that you have that are past employees of twilio. Eighteen B would be friends that currently that you have that currently work at twilio and, for lack of better PC terms, are ground swell, meaning they're an individual contributor. So the play would be the multi thread up. Eight teen C is going to be friends that work at Twilio who I'm trying to prospect into who are the decision maker. That's Nice, an ideal. Eight ten D is going to be friends who are connected to the decision maker at Twilio. So let's say that I have a friend and I'm trying to prospect into Mark Boardit Ski. He's a CR over at twilio. Shout out, mark, if you were ever watching this, I am such a fan girl, of your career. He probably knows that by now, based on all the messages I've sent. But a ten D would be I have a friend that knows mark. That restraining order didn't mean a thing. Just kidding, I just just kidding. For everyone online. A Teen D, so it's gonna be friends who know mark and I really want to, you know, talk to him. So can they make some kind of introduction? And then the last one is going to be prospects who interacted with you on Linkedin. Like you added the prospect, I added Mark on social he didn't respond to my billions of messages, but for some reason he starts liking my posts, Liking, commenting, ship ring, etcetera. So that would be the a t play. This happens more than you would think. It happens to me all the time, like I add someone and I try to get a meeting with them or whatever, and then they wouldn't respond, but they would. I would see them like comment and bread crumb me, you know, like comment on something. I'm like, what the heck, but this happens quite a bit. So this is another play. And in the last three here prospects that you met a networking event. So let's say you went to some community. I went to a modern whatever. Sales Hacker had an event, you know, and I went and attended that in person and people that I met there again. The power behind this thing is sequencing it so you don't forget to follow up on it and that you can measure the effectiveness of the play and then you can rank the plays accordingly so you know what to prioritize. It's not a opinion game anymore. Twenty people who interacted with your non and sales employees on social so let's say that Mark was commenting or liking or sharing Danny Kiss, who's over in CS. You know one of his posts, and I'm like,...

Oh, he must know Danny, and so I'm gonna work that angle. And then number twenty one is going to be competitors of your current clients. This there's a reason that this play is last. I can't stand it's on record. I can't stand this play. I do not know why people do it. Every vp of sales on the Earth seems to love this play, though, of like, Oh, we just booked whoever like you know, we I'm not going to name competitor, like we just booked drift. So now I want to March over to intercom and I basically want to tell them all about it so they can you know, bias too. I don't get it, but here's a play. A lot of people like it. So, you know, to each their own and if it works. Again, I'm a data girl, but this is number twenty one. And so again, these are all bridge bound based on a relationship. These are plays that will increase the likelihood that you'll get a meeting, not necessarily the person will buy. So if many, you know, Medina comes to me see aboutreach and says, Beck, you should meet with this person, I don't care who the person is, I'm going to jump on the line right. I won't necessarily have the pain point that they're looking to solve for but out of deep respect for manny, I would jump on the line. So these are going to increase the likelihood they'll get a meeting, but not that they'll buy quickly. Want to jump in there. This is incredible. Two good questions. Number one comes from out career. Just want to clarify why our website views so low on the list. Isn't that more direct engagement? Are these in no particular order? These are in no particular order. These were in the order that they came to my brain. Essentially. Yeah, so it is not. These are not listed in terms of where you'll see your response rates anything based on data. This is a comprehensive list, so it's not down the list. Essentially. My biggest encouragement there from a messaging perspective, would be to call out that you think that it's it could be creepy. You know not to be a creep but it seems like you're on the website earlier, because sometimes it can trigger even though it's not correct. So I would always be very lightness sumptive in my language. The same thing for buyer intent, for instance, with you two. Not to be come off as a creep, but it seems like someone from your team was researching a lot. More importantly, I saw you wrote this article where you're talking about scaling and you go into personalization again. This is going to be very different for every company and I think that's a very important, important point to stress. So you could even hypothetically point segment based on M I, S and B mid market or enterprise selling to SMB mid market or enterprise based on a certain vertical. You know what does the data suggest? The top three or four plays are from me and specific, and you could essentially not only rule the world, but you could break up. You know, I like people a lot of times will come to something like this and they'll be like, well, that's great, but what about my company? This isn't necessarily relevant for my company. So it depends on how you segment the data. But you could do some interesting stuff on on the back end here. Yeah, absolutely, and that actually leads nicely to another another question. Question from Becky. Becky says this is great. How much of this can be applied to an enterprise role versus a more transactional role. I've done both, but currently an enterprise and I feel like the plays are different. Would you apply this type of sequencing to the enterprise? So, yeah, from selling into enterprise. One of the biggest myths about personalization to me is that you should only do it for enterprise. To me, the only thing that enterprise. It's not like I work at an SMB company and I can't stand personalization. I don't want you to know who I am, but then I go to IBM and I'm like, oh now I know, I want you to know who I am. Like the human response it's gonna be relatively I could argue, you know, that it might be based on buyer person of like marketing might like it more than back end engineers, etcetera. But essentially to me this segment of company has nothing really to do with it. I'd argue at SMB companies might value it more because someone who works at Linkedin they get a lot of attention, but someone who works at an up and coming SMB company they don't get people who are personalizing to them all the time. So to me it's like its spikes rates an SMB mid market and enterprise. That's what I've seen it do across the board. The only thing that's selling into enterprise from a pipeline GINE perspective, would change is your amount of contexts that are available to prospect into. But like the meeting count is just going to jump right. But now with an enterprise I can sell into fifty people, whereas like, I'll take my last company, Chorus, we sold into REV sales, ops, sales, sales, enablement and str you know, at SMB Company and director or manager level above it's like, okay, a an SMB company you might only have five people at a that you can reach out to within then I C I C T, you know, within mid market you might have upwards, and with an enterprise you could have anywhere from you know, who knows, fifty, d two people you could read reach out to. So...

...the playbook stays the same. I think the need for automation and for structure arguably jumps up, you know, in terms of how much you do need this type of process. But the messaging infrastructure, from personalization view, it's like they like it either way and I've seen it drive results for people selling in regardless of segments. It takes the same amount of time. Not to harp on this too much, I digress, but it takes the same amount of time to send a personalized email to someone who works at IBM as it does someone who works at an SM B company. Same exact amount of time. So I would say I wouldn't stick it to just enterprise. I would set a bar of who you're trying to sell into and then deploy the personalization book on the top of it. Amazing perspective. Quick clarifying question grows. Wants, you know, please define what enterprise represents to you. What do you define enterprise as? Yeah, I mean it's it's less of what enterprise means to me. I mean it meaning. It varies for every company. So I I again I've been working across the board and how people are typically defining enterprise is going to be anywhere from a thousand to, you know, three thousand head count. It's not based on budget availability and I've seen strategic be three thousand plus. I see usually mid market relying somewhere around three hundred to a thousand and then SMB being sub three hundred. Is usually how people are defining it. But to me there is no static definition of how people are defining it. It's kind of like for titles internally, like people aren't statically defining a manager. Is this like? I've seen VP individual contributors. I've seen, you know, managers who are third line. You know, it depends on the company. So No, no static definition. So let's jump in here bridge bound, based on history. This is going to be the second category, and this is basically a category for people who have some past interaction with your company. So number one is going to be people who requested at moment didn't schedule one. I've seen Um anywhere from a twelve to twenty percent conversion on the high end, of people who requested a demo and actually got a demo. Now let's argue that thirty were unqualified. There's still folks of forty, forty five percent gap of people who requested a demo but didn't actually get one based on process. I digress. Here's a play number two, close lost. So there's four different buckets of close loss here, and this I'm defining this as close lost. You got a actual answer from the person. So number one would be they went competitive and they're up on renewal. This play I'd suggest of like, okay, they went to my competitor, I'm going to get lethal about De qual reasons in my crm and I'm going to segment everyone around ten months from now to automate into that sequence of like, uh, they're up on renewal, I want to see if they're happy, kind of thing. But to be is going to be closed loss. They didn't hit I C C, meaning they didn't hit the appropriate amount of eyes. Let's say they're only five people and you need it to be a hundred. You know, I would put the trigger in my crm that as soon as they hit a hundred, they automated that sequence because they had interests and now they're they're big enough to see. They didn't hit I C C, meaning there's a qualifying criterion link. Let's say tech stack outreach, you know, needs to, let's say, hypothetically, feed into a crm. Not True, but they need to feed into a crm. So let's say that people who didn't have a CRM, I would put in my I would get lethal about D qual reasons, you know, of like there's no ambiguity. They didn't have this piece of tech stack, they didn't have this integration. So as soon as they do have that integration, I want to pull a shortlist of all the people that wanted to buy us, you know, but didn't have that integration that we now or didn't had a piece of tech that we didn't integrate with and now we do integrate with them. So I have a whole bunch of customers ready at my fingertips. Two D E messed up. That's the only other option. They went with a competitor. They weren't qualified from an I C C or qualifying criteria or you stuff. So this is you messed up and they they told you a reason. So the reason would look like no budget, bad timing, etcetera. Number three would be they demoed in the past, but they go sit or went and dark. So here you also messed up, but at least in two day they two D that. They told your reason. And number three, you don't know, essentially what happened. Number four is going to be executive churn. This is a very interesting category, so shout out to user gems if they're on the line. But executive churn is people who have used your tech in the past. So you know, let's say in the first instance, I had used outreach and I was an oracle, you know, and so I fell in love with outreach as a platform and then I went on to IBM and you know now outreach. That person knows outreach right, they know the value prop they found a lot of value and so it's super easy to sell into them because they know what the entire thing looks like. In...

...user gems can help you automate all of this. It comes down to automation. I think people want to do this play a lot, but they don't. It's impossible to automate it right and I think the status within the first ninety days that people have made like of their purchasing decisions when it comes to people, tech, etcetera. So this is very time sensitive. Before B is going to be people who, you know, let's say I use outreach and I was at linkedin talent solutions and then I change rules internally to linkedin marketing solutions and they have not bought outreach yet. So I would want to know that of like Oh, they know outreach and they have they know the value prop here. Before C is going to be people who never used your product but they took a role at a very high buyer persona for you. Of like I would want to know when a new VP of sales is in so I can run the play of like Hey, you know, welcome to twilio. Here's a couple of articles that you you might like, and then you like go in for the kill of like based on this criteria, and I thought, you know, going to try to get a meeting. But this is people who slip into the buyer person or role as a new hire a company that you're trying to get into. Five, is they opened your prospecting emails. Six, is they aggressively opened your prospecting emails, the difference being in the play. If someone opens my prospecting emails, I typically run a play where I called them twice right then that day and twice the next day and then resume in the existing sequence, because it's like right person, right time, like they just opened my email. You know, I want to want to be in front of them. Six, is they aggressively open to my emails, and what I mean by aggressive is like fifteen or more. If you're using personalization, this is going to happen a lot where they're either number one passing it to your competitor or number two, the more likely scenario, at least in my experience, is they're passing around to their internal team and they're like you should prospect like Johnny. Johnny just did this amazing thing and personalized. So the play there can be different in that case scenario. You'RE gonna think I'm crazy, but I usually have my reps follow up and up apologize for the personalization and make sure they didn't overstep their bounds at a piece of value of like an article or referral, and then say I'm I'm gonna leave you alone now, and the person, usually within fifteen minutes, is like no, because they'll go to their team and they'll be like, Johnny's awesome. Everyone should prospect like this person. I'm going to take a meeting with Johnny. And then they don't actually take the meet from Johnny. So you want to politely fall on your sword and remind them. And another tip here is I wouldn't be like Hey, I sent you that Coffee Mug, you know, like are we doing the meeting or what? They owe you. Nothing, you know. So I would walk in and it seems like a high risk, higher reward play and it is but I'd say some of the biggest meetings that I've gotten in my career are based on that play. Uh So I do like certain plays. Number six, I really like seven. This is a play that I don't love, but vendors who just sold you their product. This happens in tech all the time for chat. I hate it. Let's move on quickly. I agree that needs to stop, particularly another one from Alex greer. When you call, do you double tap with a call and then, if no answer, immediately calling it? I would wait like a couple hours. I don't like the double tap call because it essentially that to me is emergency based. So I am very roof. I'm savage about having done research, but I play by the rules in terms of timing. Like I'm not going to email someone on Sunday night. I'm not going to email someone on Saturday. I'm not going to call them at seven am. Are they in the office? Maybe, but like I want to respect my prospects. Eight to five. You know, I want to play within the rules of the game. From that perspective, pattern interrupt for the right reason. So to me, a double tap, yes, we'll get you more more answers, but essentially I would take that as you had an emergency that you had to call me back, and I think your likelihood of converting that person into it. Like they feel duped almost of like Oh, I picked this up thinking was something wrong with someone from my family. So I would not suggest it. From a preference perspective, I think again, you'll get a lot of answers, but I think people will be we're anti spam right, so I'd just be be cognizant of that. Do you leave a message each time? You go no, Oh heck no, I'm doing ten calls over the course of twenty one business days. No, essentially, I I would not leave a voicemail every time. You know, once they pick up the call it's game on. But I would say I leave two voicemails over the course of those ten cold calls. I usually do one near the beginning and one near the end because essentially, like you're going on record that you called, like this is gonna sound bad. I want to blow the dude up, you know, and then when he picks ud be like, Oh, this is the first time that I called, I don't want to go on record. Leave him sevent messages being like hey, how to lose a guy in ten days style, like, Hey, this back checking in. What are you doing? What are you doing? Da? So I would only leave to voicemails over the course of the entire...

...playbook. Okay, cool. So those first two bridge bound categories were the bridge bound categories that essentially raise the likelihood that they'll take a meeting, but not necessarily that they'll buy. This category bridge bound three, based on symptoms, pains and problems, I hope break the Internet. So people usually say like hey, I hear every sales trainer say, once you get the person into discovery who has the problem that we saw for I can take it from there. And I'm like, well, no, no, crap sherlock. But how do you get them? How do you get all of the people that have the problem that you solve? For Right, you can't have a conference. It's like, if you have this problem, show up and then prospect in there. So people hide their problems, go to social media. They don't sit there and post about unless it's vulnerability capital. If they don't sit there and post about like hey, we didn't hit our numbers and we don't know it to do about it, they choke that back, and especially with salespeople, they are trained to not let you into their problems, like it's your your job to earn the right to that. So this is a way to sequence people who are showing the signs overtly that they have pain, symptoms and problems. So I am deferring. There is a trainer I'm collaborating with WHO is absolutely brilliant who got my mind thinking about this about problems, so I can't actually would attribute this to him. But within this category, the first type of sequence you can run is people who left negative reviews of your competitor on something like g two. The number one have the problem of what your tech solves for or your products sols for, and number two, they didn't solve it with your competitor. So we got a double problem. Number two turned customers of your competitors. Is a big book, you know. Again, they were looking to solve the problem was with this piece of tech or your product and they essentially, from a long term perspective, didn't find the value to buy because they turned. Number three is active God. So this is a sequence that I would run when there's an inorganic spike in demand for your product, and I would go relevance only here. So, for instance, if I was a zoom employee, you know, come around March two thousand twenty, all of a sudden I'm sent and out, irrelevant only you know campaign, because there's an inorganic level of problem that people need to solve for using me. These are the sequences that I hope change things for people. But number four through nine, there's three things I want you to pay attention to. Four and five are based on business impact, six and seven are based on a lagging indicator and eight and nine are based on a variable. So four and five. Four is the presence of a negative output. So, for instance, I sell sales training. Right, hypothetically, I sell sales training. So I would want to put in this sequence anyone, any public company, that has missed their que four goals, revenue goals. I don't know if they need sales training, but it's reasonable to think that they do based on they hit. They didn't hit their business impact goals. So someone's in trouble or someone needs some some level of enablement. So, for as you can see, over from a negative output, like I would think through if someone didn't have my what is the problem that my product solves for and if they don't get that problem alleviated, what is it typically results in? And then how can I sequence those people into this sequence? Number five is absence of a positive output. So if people are hitting their goals, the first thing they usually do is go to Linkedin smirt in everyone's face. So this would be, you know, like, okay, people companies who have gone quiet. They're not posting, you know, a lot about how great their team is doing, etcetera, etcetera. They're not doing pr releases, you know. So like in a weight loss example, you know, if people have usually the figure that they want, the first thing they do is good a facebook and post, you know, the pictures of themselves in a bathing suit, right. So this would be people who are not posting pictures of themselves in a bathing suit. If, you know, I was selling weight loss training or et CETERA. Six and seven are based on lagging indicators. So, for instance, I work a lot with teams on their inbound demo request process. Again, I've seen twelve conversion of people who requested a demo that got into a demo. Bizarre right. So if I wanted to test for a lagging indicator. I could essentially go to let's say twilio's website and I could request a demo and if it took any more than five minutes to get a piece of outreach or, Heaven Forbid, you know, days, and then it took a week to get into an appointment and all of a sudden I'm being qualified by an SDR who doesn't know my business and then it's another week before I got into an actual blown demo. I don't know if they're churney users in that process us, but it's...

...reasonable to guess. So I would think through how can I test for essentially the one expertise area that I have? So great instance for outreach would be like if someone sends me a messaging and it's not that high quality, you know, I'm like, oh well, this person probably, you know, needs outreach to increase increase the quality of their messaging. So six is presidence of negative what I call midput. So it's a lagging indicator, you know, in seven. Seven is the absence of a positive midput, like I haven't seen great messaging coming from this team. Eight and nine is going to be inputs. So in the weight loss example, you know number eight is going to be presence of a negative input. So I go over to someone's house. I haven't even seen them, you know, but all I see in their houses Oreos and twinkies and like Dr Pepper. So I don't know if this person has their ideal figure, but I can guess based on what I see them eating. So from a business acumen perspective, I would want to know teams that, teams that are in hyper growth. You know, they have thirties sales employees, they only have two managers, they have no tech and they have no enablement. I don't know if they're in trouble and they grew overnight. I don't know if they're in trouble, but I'm assuming, you know, based on what I'm seeing, that these variables would lead to hypothetically like I. Essentially I need to know them, but I don't need to know them to put them into the sequence of like. Based on these couple of variables, I would guess that they're going to run into the problem that my product solves for. And nine is the absence of a positive input. So in the weight loss example, you go in through their their fridge and you don't see any vegetables. You don't see anything right, so you're like, okay, they're probably going out to eat a lot, you know, etcetera. But it's like conclusions that I can draw based on the signs that I'm seeing from an output perspective, impact lagging indicator, in variable perspective, overt signs of like this person, I don't know if they're sick, but they look really pay ill, you know, and they've got, you know, something hanging down here and they're sneezing a lot. So I'm guessing that there's a problem internally. So it's more likely that this person would ultimately need to buy. No one's going to buy a product unless they have a problem. Right if I'm a smart person and even if manny introduces me to someone and I had a respect jump on the call, but I don't have the problem, I'm not going to purchase it. So this is a great way to be intentional about sequencing the people that have the problem and not waiting for discovery and then the initial calls like well, tell me what keeps you up at night, Scott, and then he's like, I don't want to answer that question. I don't want to answer that question, like you pitch me your product, you know kid, and then the kids pitching based on features, etcetera. This is a very intentional way to understand. Like, I think this problem. The person is probably running into these problems. Scott, you look like you have a question and we got one more category. Last category is bridge bound, based on an educated guess that they're in market. There's five sequences for this one. Number one is a channel play. So if I essentially, if I'm outreach, for instance, and I noticed that they just bought data, then all of a sudden, like I don't know if they necessarily need sales engagement, but where are they going to put all those contacts? Why did they buy all those email addresses and phone numbers if they're not going to reach out to them? And so this is a channel plate, not an intentional setup of a channel play, like you have an agreement, but like, for instance, course and outreach play really well together for conversation intelligence. Whenever you know outreach someone would buy outreach, it's like they've probably in market for conversation intelligence too, and so you can sequence them into that play and be very intentional about it. Number two is they're evaluating competitor. Full disclosure, this is the only non automatedrble one in the deck. It's fire if you can figure it out. So network. I know a couple of people that I can think of that just have their thumb on the industry and they find out through people, but really, really well. But this is a high, high, very lucrative campaign to run because you know that they're value like not only are. If you're selling in this situation, not only would you win, but you would win out of the mouth of the lion right of who you're competing with. So that's a really effective play. And in the last three here are firm, firm a graphic triggers that signal to you that they're likely in market. So a couple of popular ones here, companies that I P o. You can automate in there off like all the people you know, let's say, slack ipoed and all of a sudden I want to, you know, sell into them, like I think that that's a really good sign. People usually buy in tech. So I want to sequence all of the companies that I pod within the first couple of weeks of I P O and all of my contacts within Zrm at slack into this sequence. For is a firm. A graphic trigger based on the company funding. Very popular one, I'd say. You know, again with the plays that I don't love, I would be very careful here. I wouldn't say like Hey, I notice you have ash, like,...

...can we talk because I want some of it kind of thing. Like be very careful with the language. I would go personalization only and just be appropriate enough to not necessarily, you know, hit on the company funding all the time. And then number five is they are in hyper growth. So you can define hyper growth. Of I want companies who have hired fifty sales employees or more over the last two months to be, you know, referenced into the sequence, because if they're hiring people, they're probably pulling on tech. So that that is everything for bridge bound. And the last one is just cold back found. This is far right. You have no one. Too many reason, you know. So you essentially go personalization only. So we want to do hey, Scott, you're on mute. I was just on meeting myself. This was amazing, as always. There is a ton of content on flip the script DOT Co. Go check it out. Replays of this session. There's an entire personalization section on there. So go follow on linked and connect with back. Go to flip the script DOT COM. There's a ton, a ton of stuff back. What do you want to leave leave everyone with? That was incredible, as always. I want to leave everyone with there's much more science to it than you think. There's much more science and predictability than I think people give sales credit for, and I think if you are intentional about sequencing people and putting all of these plays together, then you can we're in a spot, an interesting spot in the industry, where these three reps just produce and we don't necessarily know why. And you know, I guess we should train them on product knowledge more and every once, you know, hit this crux of of a es aren't hitting of their quota, or, more right so, most of them are not, and s of SDRs aren't hitting quota. So I think that we've reached a bridge in the industry. So I hope this is just the beginning of like, Hey, here all the plays. You tell me more about the tactical of what you want to aluded here. But I think if we're very intentional about the plays and we're very intentional about the personalization and the effort for it and the structure of it, you know, then it can turn it into and I think salespeople don't like the words science, but I will remind you artists to find as beauty of the expression just for the sole use of expression, right. So I hope there's no word in sales. There is some genes, sic, quality to it of like there's three percent of that's just that person. But I think there's a lot of predictability to it. And so if you can put down that argument of well, I don't want to science out this thing Um, and I'm not saying science out with scripts, I'm saying science out from structure. And how do you marry that with creativity? So you allow your reps, you know, to be more creative and be more intentional about what they're doing. I think you'd be surprised on the what it enables them to do. So I hope again, this is just the beginning and I'm excited to be a part of it. But to see what people's results are and, you know, what plays they're running and how much us that they're having on the back end, so awesome. Well, thank you, Beck Um. We'll have more stuff with Beck and sales hacker in the future. We've got a lot of cool stuff lined up, so keep your eye out. Thank you so much and we'll see you next time. See you later. This was another episode of the sales engagement podcast. To help this get in front of more eyes and ears, please leave us a shining five star review. Join US AT SALES ENGAGEMENT DOT COM for new episodes. Resources in the book on sales engagement. To get the most out of your sales engagement strategy, make sure to check out outreach dot IO, the leading sales engagement platform. See you on the next episode.

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