The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 6 months ago

Sales & Marketing Alignment: Focusing on the Same Goals


Does it feel like your sales and marketing departments are out of sync?

Today’s the day you eliminate the invisible barrier between the two and put the strategies and shared goals in place to ensure that your entire company is rowing in the same direction.

In this episode, I talk with Lynne Capozzi, the CMO at Acquia, about how to drive alignment between sales and marketing.

What we talked about:

  • Misalignment between sales and marketing
  • Inviting product to the revenue kickoff
  • Investigating the impact of self-serve options and community led-growth
  • Revenue trends

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast.This podcast is brought you by outreach, the leading sales engagement platform, andthey just launched outreach on outreach, the place to learn how outreach well doesoutreach? Learn how the team follows up with every lead in record time aftervirtual events and turns them into revenue. You can also see how outreachrus accountbased plays, manages reps and so much more using their own sales engagement platform. Everything is backed by data pulled from outreach processes and customer base. Whenyou're done, you'll be able to do it as good as they do.Had to outreach Doo on outreach to see what they have going on. Nowlet's get into today's episode. Hello and welcome back everyone to the sales engagementpodcast. Thank you, as always, for lending US your ear drums forthe next thirty minutes. I know there's a million and one things buying foryour your attention, so we don't take a lightly that you're hanging out withus. This will be a extremely interesting discussion. I've been looking forward tothis one for a while. I am joined by Limbica Pose Lyn. Welcometo the show. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me very excited tohave you and for the listeners. Always like to start with a littlebit about your background and I used to we frame it as your superhero originstory. How did you get to where you're at today? Well, Ilove even the idea of thinking about being in a superhero category. Not sureabout that. That's okay. So I'm a chief marketing officer at Software Companycalled Aqui up and how I got here was, like I'd say, kindof a combination of many years of hard work combined with a little bit ofluck and being the right place at the right time. I have a lotof years of experience of being CMO and various levels of marketing positions and throughoutmy career I've always been in the enterprise sales category and have had for many, many years. I would rotate through various marketing roles and so every twoyears I moved on. That was kind of one of my objectives, wasto move into a different flavor of marketing role, and then for several yearsas well I was in sales and sales management. So I've always had asales and marketing background and really love, Love, love the marketing side andand being a Cmo, which I which I certainly love. So part ofthe Superhero means love what you do. I'm signing up for them. UhHuh. I love that. And I had I don't know who said this, but someone we had, maybe it was Sam Jacobs on the show,said that if people don't attribute some of the success to lock, they're probablyfull of full of BS. You know, there's always that back and Oponent,but you certainly have to work extremely hard to put yourself in the situationsthat can feel like kind of luck. Interesting. So I love that youalso have the sales side of it. I didn't actually know that about aboutyour background, and that's going to make this conversation we're about to get toeven more interesting. And what we want to talk about today is really aroundalignment and how to get the Cro and the CMO working together and then pushingthat alignment down through the organization and and we may even talk a little bitabout how to get products in those conversations as well. But before we getthere, just a follow up question to your background. We have a lotof marketers that listen to this podcast and I think they would want to know, like, what was that moment when something clicked in your head right beforeyour first cmo role where you're like, okay, I can get this.Like how did you make that almost mental switch that you're chief marketing officer now, kind of the jump from VP to...

...the the C suite? How didyou make that? Do Your do you remember that moment? I you rememberthe moment. I remember when I move from from being a VP marketing ata larger company to a smaller company. Is Startup being a CMO and Ifelt like I was ready, but I I wasn't quite sure. But Ihad some great mentors. I had some great mentors that I followed. ThenI listened to and a little bit a leap of faith and and yeah,it was a moment. I think of you like Oh my Gosh, I'mhere right, I got this role, like how fadless is that? SoI remember it, but I also remember just kind of going back to mycore about, okay, I think I know what to do, implement that, you know, work on that ninety day plan, which is something thatI'd always have read about and heard about and tried to work on. Soand that kicked into me and and then we kind of went from there andI learned all along the way. Yeah, I like that. All right,let's dive right into it, and I think a good a good placeto start is kind of what's what's broken right now in terms of alignment.This is a discussion that a lot of folks have. Why are a lotof sales and marketing teams right now not operating in the right way? Whatdo you think are some of the root causes of this? Honestly, it'sbeen, it seems like it's been a consistent issue since it started by mycareer. Yeah, I think when I see it happening, where sometimes itdoesn't, there's a disconnect between marketing and sales, is one the times whenwe don't share the same objectives. So maybe the CMO and the crow areon a different page for whatever reason. Maybe they're not. We're not sharingenough objectives between the two or similar type of objectives, and the partnership justhasn't been formed and there seems to be a kind of a division of linein between, which is this is what marketing does, this is what salesdoes, as opposed to this is what we need to accomplish together. Theseare our sales goals. Together, our revenue goals together. So I thinkmost of the time that's what it comes down to is for whatever reason it'snot an alignment and there's a mismatch between what those objectives are and a truepartnership. I've been in situations where there has been a, you know,a misalignment between marketing and sales and it's not comfortable. It's as a headof marketing. It's never comfortable to be in that position. I'm sure it'sthe same in the sale side, but myself I've been through that. NotComfortable. When it does work and it does work well, and I'd saylike right now at Aqui Oh, I think we're an example of it workingwell together, that sales and marketing and sharing the same objectives, same goals, were together at the table and we are. We have our sites seton those same goals and we work together to accomplish that. I would agreethat a lot. Largely, you can look at be behavior and you cansee how someone is incentivized based on that behavior. Right, a lot ofour incentives drive our actions. Okay, so I would agree with you.They are. What are some of the things? Then? You know,it seems to be working really well at at Aquia. What are some ofthe things you instituted to drive that alignment? And let's maybe talk through the digitalworld we all live in now, because it's not as easy as itas it maybe was when we were in the office. We could get everyonetogether and do a little meeting. What are some of the things that you'vedone to enhance that alignment? Well, first of all, what we dois the crow and I. We share our so, as I said,we share similar objectives, but we also share the same pipeline goals. Soyou know, we used to have previously we would have the sales folks wouldhave an outbound quota and it out bounded amount that they're going for and marketingmarketing would have an inbound or marketing generated.

Right, so there was marketing generated, there was a stovepipe in between. It was marketing generated and then therewas sales outbound generated, and we used to measure them separately. Nowwhat we've done is completely blown that up, so they're together. So it's mark, it's inbound and it's outbound together. Now do I track my marketing programsso that I know specifically what's working and what leads are coming in?Of course because I will not need to track that at a campaign level.But we share that combined goal between sales and marketing together. So that's onething. So then we have our sites kind of set and it what itdoes is it actually prevents what we call the hunger games, which is,where did that lead come from? Was it a sales lead? Was ita marketing lead? Was it a and you know what, today, inthe world of digital and in the world of all the ABM activity that we'redoing, the compass marketing activity, and in the world of the buying committee, it doesn't matter. Like it doesn't matter whether it was sales and marketing. It's to everybody should be working together to make that happen. There's multipletouches all along the way and as long as we can kind of measure thetouches and measure the cycle, then we should be okay with that. Sothat's one way, is a combined target together. The other is we dosome simple things like when we did, and this year we did it virtually, when we did a sales kickoff and the annual sales kickoff which we usedto get together in person. Fingers Cross next year will be in person,but it's actually a combined sales and marketing kickoff. It's not just sales becauseit's also marketing because, especially in the regions around the world, the fieldmarketers are working really closely with their sales counterparts. So we have the samemeeting and the Ciro and I are both up on stage and we are againwhere a unified front and we are, you know, communicating the same messageto everyone. The marketing folks go through the sales training and the same thingwe run through marketing campaigns in the sales folks are exposed to what we're doingon the marketing side. The other thing that we've done in part of thatis so it's although it's the sales and marketing kickoff, we also have theproduct people come in. So our product organizations are not coming in to hearwhat the Sales and marketing folks are being exposed to and what our messages forthe Sales and marketing folks. So although it's the sales and marketing kickoff,we have a lot of people, you know, that join us from products. So, you know, those are a couple of things we do some, you know, some other smaller type things in terms of joint meetings andmaking sure that we have a weekly senior leadership, sales and marketing sync upso we know what are we focused on this week, what are we tryingto accomplish? What do we get from last week? And literally we doit every week and we never miss it. So those are some some tactics thatwe use on a weekly basis. Those are great. I want topack up a few of those. So I love this idea. I thinkevery organization should be moving towards kind of this one pipeline revenue number that isshared. I think there's nothing more demotivating when you're doing your job, whetheryou're someone running a marketing campaign are you're an outbound btr. That's like workingyour tailoff and then you have to fight and scrap for this like attribution andit could be given to someone else and like I remember running beat teams andjust the demoralization that would happen when that that wasn't correct. So I lovethis one this one number. How would you to coach people to make thecase to move towards that one member because I don't think every, not allorganizations, have made that jump yet. How would you coach people who arelistening and they're maybe that guy. I know we need to get there,but we've always done it this way. How would you coach them to topresent that to the organization? What are the proof points, maybe that thatit works? I think trying to quantify and measure how much time people arespending on hunting, doing that hungry games, and if you just try to quantifyhow much time and effort is associated...

...with that, that'll tell you something, because I will tell you how much time people are spending on it andthen you can say, well, we could direct all of that time awayfrom that. They could be selling all that time, they could be eithermarketing or selling during all that time, and that alone for us was worththe effort. Yeah, I bet that's a scary amount of time. Onceyou would quantify that, I would I would say, up for people canbe spending twenty, twenty five percent of their time doing that, particularly atend of quarter, trying to like map it all out. I think that'sa great, great thing. I also love just naming it hunger games.As soon as you give it that name, like we don't we don't want todo you don't want to do that. We want to move away from that, exactly that. And then you mentioned something I love, this ideaof having like a revenue kickoff, not a sales kickoff. We're getting productinto it. Let's talk a little bit about that because as certainly for mein my career, we've been talking about sales and marketing alignment. People havebeen trying to figure this out for a while, but more recently I'm hearingproduct getting brought into the conversation more and more. Maybe it's like the productled growth movement or and it's kind of crazy that they haven't always been inin the conversation. Totally makes sense now that we're doing it. Walk methrough that relationship between sales, marketing and now product and how does that sortof feedback loop work? So I always consider it, definitely consider it thetriangle between sales and marketing and product, and we have various forums that thethree groups at various different levels get to communicate in to get to Sharef soone of the things we do on a corely basis, as we do well, we do both territory reviews, which is, you know, a say, a traditional sales territory review, but then we also do a coarterly businessreview for products, and in both of those all three organizations and management fromall three of those organizations are represented. So when we're looking at something froma sales territory perspective, we have the product team that's in there to hearwhat of the what are the product issues that are going on? What isit? You know, where are we winning? Where we losing? Whywould we be losing and what kind of implications does that have on the product? And so the product folks are there to hear that directly. So theynow, you know, they have that vehicle to hear about product you know, product feedback. We have things like customer advisory Boards will they'll also hearthat feedback. But we also have the corely business review from the product angle, which is an update on how each individual product is doing. And inthat case then we can say and we hear, once we hear kind ofwhat the Road Map is. The sales leaders and managers are in that roomand they're contributing and they're, you know, they have a say at the tableand what happens next on the road map. That doesn't always happen inall organizations. Right. A lot of times sales and even marketing is totallyseparate from that. Product will go off and make a roadmap. They'll comeback and the sales team will say, well, who wants that? Whyare you building that? So this is a nice way to prevent that fromhappening, so that it's a continuous loop between the territory reviews, the quadcorely product reviews. We verify it through the customer advisory Boards and through othercustomer events that we do. So it's almost, we can think of italmost like a circle, almost like a loop, you know, in termsof how that communication happen. I like it almost like a flywheel of communication. Where does success fit in that? Would you put success under kind oflike sales bucket, or is that? Is that separate now? I thinkit's under there. It's definitely in the sales pocket for sure. Y,yeah, yeah, Yep, got it. Okay, like it. I thinkit's more and I'm sorry, now means reptor no nose. I alsothink it's more important now than ever because a product experience is so much broadernow, like a product experience also includes, like what is the user experience like? What does the trial experience like?...

Right, and so it's not justlike building product. Now it's building an experience, and so sales andmarketing are part of that experience that you're building for someone and more, andthat's why it's more and more important that we get the product, you know, viewpoint on it, because a lot of times product is building that experienceand you want, you know, you want that full three hundred and sixtyfeedback loop. Yeah, absolutely. How are you thinking about? Are youembracing product led growth at Aquiat like? Are you doing more of this kindof assisted self serve motion where low barrier to entry, kind of any sortof trial? Are you experimenting with anything like that, artist at not reallywork in the model? Yeah, no, we are. We're experimenting with everythingfrom kind of, you know, how do you do a self howdo you provide like a self serve demo experience? Yes, to a toa full fledged trial experience on a product. So we're looking at all of that. We're looking at trying all of those to kind of see what worksand and to see, because what we know is that it's especially really duringthe past world of, you know, everything going digital. We know thatmore and more people are researching on their own right kind of you're doing moreresearch, they're doing more trials, they're doing more investigation before any any ofus even get to talk to them. And yes, you can measure someof that through intent tools and you can track that, but the more youcan provide self service options or the more you can meet their needs for selfresearching, the better off of course you're going to be. Yeah, turnaway. Here's another question in the similar vein, just because I have agreat perspective on these things. There's two kind of buzzwords are here in alot of product life growth and then community life growth. How are you thinkingabout kind of community led growth? Is that something on on your your radar, like building educational communities for your prospects and that's not so much kind ofproduct or service focused. Well, at Aquio we have a nice advantage wherewe have this huge open source community that feels truple right, which is someproducts. So you know, when you get like a million and a halfpeople worldwide, they're using and contributing to the product. I know, imagineand that's what happens with trouple. So you know this. Like these onepoint five. I don't know what the latest numbers maybe is now it's upto one point six but million people that are using and contributing to the codeon the product. It's you. You have a built in community. Soare the droople community is very, very strong. It's very global and,you know, enhancements just are, you know, fast coming and and it'sa way to really to have, you know, quick innovation and make theproduct extremely extensible and thorough. So we have the droople communities, we alsohave occupacqui of communities, and we are building more and more upon you know, like helping to do, you know, connect peer to peer, do thingslike birds of a feather type, you know, networkings, getting together. We do that at our at our user conference every year at Aquia engage, and then we have four online forms that were building to help people communicatewith their peers or other organizations that are also kind of using using the products. So that's awesome. So, yeah, you are. How long has thatcommunity been around you? You are like almost the perfect case study oflike, Hey, we were doing community led growth before community led growth wascool. You know, yeah, exactly. I mean credit to the troople community. You know, we are and the troople association, Droople Community,who has been building that community for about twelve years I think now. Sothat definitely is a great example of just a global community that has kind ofcome together for the good of the community and you know, and really haskind of equated to great innovations. So... it certainly does work. Youknow, it doesn't up over the that's awesome. If there any other beforewe kind of tried this all together, is there any other revenue trends thatare on your mind right now that are maybe exciting to you that you haveyour your eyes off? Well, I think any other revenue trends? Let'ssee. I think we're seeing really exciting movement happening in just the purchasing patternsmoving forward, right. So we know this is what I say. Sowe know more and more that, you know, purchasing, particularly and impressoffer, is done through a buying committee, right, and a group of people. And so the tools that we all have as sales and marketers toaccess kind of group buying behavior and targeting with it, that be accompass marketing, whether that be tools that help us identify measuring intent kind of you know, who are the seekers? Who's looking for what we have to offer,or WHO's looking for our competitors. I think all the tools that we havein that category or super interesting that match with kind of what we can,you know, get out of AI and massure machine learning or like, incrediblefor us in terms of knowing where do we focus for sales and marketing.So so I think there's great growth opportunity in things like making sure you're targetingaccounts, making sure that you're using ABM techniques, making sure that you're lookingat intense signals and making sure that that you also support the people that areresearching right. So I think this is the whole researcher journey is huge,and I don't mean job title researcher, right, I don't mean that.I mean people potential with in a buying committee, that are doing research,that are doing research on their own before they get to you. And youknow what? What we do know, especially now, is that all theresearch tells us that millennials, Generation Gen Z's, that they're going forward.What they're telling us, because they're going to be there either buyers now willbe future buyers. They don't want to talk to people, they want todo it on their own and by the time they get to someone. Thenthey're ready to raise their hand. They will raise their hand, but atthat point you better have good value, you better know what your story isand you better know what you're offering and what they're going to get, youknow, in return for that. So more and more we're going to seethat. I think we're going to see it's a generational thing and we'll seemore and more that they're researching on their own and we better be supporting themsomehow through that journey, even if it's not a direct oneonone yet communication.Yeah, that's a great a great call that. We actually did a surveynot not too long ago, talking to to men, millennials and what wasinforming their they're buying decisions, and it was really interesting. People over overforty, when they cited what they use to basically research and inform their decisions, it was ebooks and white papers were for the top, and that's like, okay, yeah, that's what people we've been living in that world fora while. And then those are at the bottom. When we when wedid under the S, so kind of like millennial and the top two werethey're actually researching in a different way to the top two were review sites andthen they were looking at what peers and thought leaders thought about things. Sothat that was a really interesting shift. That's happening is, yes, they'rethey're researching more, but they're also researching in that a different way. Theymight not trust your branded case study anymore as as much. Right, exactlyexactly the period us is big. That's that's very big. Also, theother thing that we found is that they want to look for organizations that aredoing some kind of good in the world in some way, shape or form, even if it's small, even if it's a carbon footprint, right,and so that's that's important on their list. Did that come up in yours aswell, it did, and something I personally spend a lot of timethinking about. I think. I think be to be, we have aways to catch up. In, you...

...know, B Toc. This kindof idea of conscious capitalism is is everywhere because the market decided like we're onlygoing to spend money with brands that are arguing in the right way, andI think be to B is like a little slower to catch up to this, but it's coming and it's a change I'm I'm very excited. Order thatcould probably be another, a whole other episode that we could we could dothat idea. I think we got off on a t engine there, butyeah, interesting, I think. Really, I totally all right. Well,the thirty minutes always absolutely flies by and there was a lot of great, great nuggets in there. kind of to wrap it up, I alwayslike to ask this question because people are are busy. They're probably listening tothis while they're working out, cooking dinner on a zoom call WHU knows,a lot of multitask and going on. If people only remember three things fromthis conversation, what would you want those three things to be? Let's seethree things. I think, especially now, there's there's not a better time tohave there's no better time than now to have a great relationship between salesand marketing, between the CMO and the crow and all levels below right,everything from looking at the same target accounts to ABM to having the same strategy, sharing the same goals and pipeline goals. I think that's number one, isthat there hasn't been a better time to make sure that you have thegreat relationship, strong relationship between marketing and sales. I'd say the second isthink about as you go to do your sales and marketing. Think about whatwe said about people moving to being researchers and that's changing the purchasing patterns goingforward. So make sure what you're doing, either in your product you're messaging,your sales pitches, your ear outreach emails, that you are making surethat you're you're providing value to that researcher, because otherwise people are not going topay attention. And the third is probably more of a just a generaltip I always give to our marketers and sellers, which is don't just havehappy years, whether you're in marketing or sales. Be Thorough, be paranoidright, and don't always just have those happy ears on. That is excellentadvice. I got that drilled into my head from a salesmanager very, veryearly on, because I had a had some happy years earlier my career.For sure, mappy guy had the happy years, but I learned that lessonearlier on. It's good to good to have a level of paranoia, forsure. Well, Lynn, thank you so much. That's has been alot of fun. I enjoyed this discussion and to all our listeners, haveyou found that as a valuable as I did and we'll see you next time. This was another episode of the sales engagement podcast. To help this getin front of more eyes and ears, please leave us a shining five starreview. Join US at sales engagementcom for new episodes. Resources in the bookon sales engagement. To get the most out of your sales engagement strategy,make sure to check out outreached ioh, the leading sales engagement platform. Seeyou on the next episode.

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