The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 4 months ago

Sales & Marketing Alignment: Focusing on the Same Goals


Does it feel like your sales and marketing departments are out of sync?

Today’s the day you eliminate the invisible barrier between the two and put the strategies and shared goals in place to ensure that your entire company is rowing in the same direction.

In this episode, I talk with Lynne Capozzi, the CMO at Acquia, about how to drive alignment between sales and marketing.

What we talked about:

  • Misalignment between sales and marketing
  • Inviting product to the revenue kickoff
  • Investigating the impact of self-serve options and community led-growth
  • Revenue trends

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

Welcome to the sales engagement, apodcast, this podcast is brought you by outreach, the leading sales engagementplatform and they just launched out reach on our reach the place to learnhow outreach well does not reach learn how the team follows up with every leadin record time after virtual events and turns them into revenue. You can alsosee how out retines account based plays, manages reps and so much more usingtheir own sales engagement platform. Everything is backed by data pulledfrom out reach processes and customer base when you're done you'll be able todo it as good as they do had to out reached out io on out reach to see whatthey have going on. Now, let's get into today's episode, hello and welcome back a ron to thesales engagement podcast. Thank you as always for lending us your ear drumsfor the next thirty minutes. I know there's a million and one things buyingfor you, your attention, so we don't take a lightly that you're hanging outwith us. This will be a extremely interesting discussion. I've beenlooking forward to this one for a while. I am joined by li cacosi lyn. Welcometo the show. Thank you so much thanks for having me very excited to have youand for the listeners. I always like to start with a little bit about yourbackground and i usually frame it as your superhero origin story. How didyou get to where you're at today? Well, i love even the idea of thinking aboutbeing in a superhero category, not sure about that. That's, okay! So i'm achief marketing officer, a software company called aquia and how i got herewas, like i'd, say, kind of a combination of many years of hard work,combined with a little bit of luck and be in the right place at the right time.I have a lot of years of experience of being c mo and various levels ofmarketing positions and throughout my career, i've always been in theenterprise sales category and have had for many many years. I would rotatethrough various marketing roles, and so every two years i moved on that waskind of one of my objectives was to move into a different flavor ofmarketing roll and then for several years as well. I was in sales and salesmanagement, so i've always had a sales and marketing background and reallylove, love, love the marketing side and and being a smo, which i, which icertainly love so part of the superhero, means love what you do, i'm signing upfor that uh huh. I love that, and i had i don't know who said this, but someonewe had. Maybe it was sam jacobs on the show said that if people don'tattribute some of their success to lock they're, probably full of full of bs,you know there's always that that component, but you certainly have towork extremely hard to put yourself in the situation that it can feel likekind of lack interesting. So i love that you also have the sales side of it.I didn't actually know that about about your background and that's going tomake this conversation were about to get to even more interesting, and whatwe want to talk about today is really around alignment and how to get the croand the c mo working together and then pushing that alignment down through theorganization, and we may even talk a little bit about how to get products inthose conversations as well, but before we get there just a follow up questionto your background. We have a lot of marketers that listen to this podcast and i think they would want to know like whatwas that moment when something clicked in your head right before your first cm roll, where,like okay, i can get this like. How did you make that almost mental swish that you're a chiefmarketing officer, now kind of the the...

...jump from vp to the the c suite? How did you makethat and do you do you remember that mom? I do remember the moment. Iremember when i moved from from being a vp marketing at a larger company to asmaller company and start up being a c mo, and i felt like i was ready, but iwasn't quite sure, but i had some great mentors. I had some great mentors thati followed. Then i listened to and a little bit a leap of faith and and yeah.It was a moment i think of you like, oh, oh, my gosh, i'm here right. I got thisrole like how fadles is that, so i remember it, but i also remember justkind of going back to my core about okay. I think i know what to doimplement that you know work on that ninety day plan, which is nothing thati'd always read about and heard about and tried to work on so and that kickedinto me and and then we kind of went from there and i learned all along theway yeah i like that, all right, let's dive right into it and i think a good e,a good place to start is kind of. What's what's broken right nowin terms of alignment, this is a discussion that a lot of folks have.Why are a lot of sales and marketing teams right now not operating in the right way? What do you think aresome of the root causes of this honestly? It's been, it seems like it'sbeen a consistent issue since it started my my career yeah. I think wheni see it happening where sometimes it doesn't, there's a disconnect betweenmarketing and sales is one that times when we don't share the same objectives,so maybe the c mo and the cro are on a different page, for whatever reason,maybe they're not we're not sharing enough objectives between the two orsimilar type of objectives and the partnership just hasn't been formed andthere seems to be a kind of a division of line in between which is. This iswhat marketing does. This is what sales does as opposed to. This is what weneed to accomplish together. These are our sales goals together our revenuegoals together. So i think, most of the time that's what it comes down to is,for whatever reason, it's not an alignment and there's a mismatchbetween what those objectives are and a true partnership. I've been insituations where there has been a you know, a misalignment between mafetengand sales, and it's not comfortable it's as a head of marketing. It's nevercomfortable to be in that position. I'm sure it's the same on the sale side,but myself, i've been through that not comfortable when it does work, and itdoes work well and i'd, say like right now at acuio. I think we're an exampleof it working well together that sales are marketing sharing the sameobjectives. Same goals were together at the table and we are. We have our sitesset on those singles and we work together to accomplish that. I wouldagree that a lot largely you can look at be behavior and you can see how someone is incentivized based onthat behavior right. A lot of our incentives drive our actions. Okay, soi would agree with you there. What are some of the things then? You know itseems to be working really well at at aquia. What are some of the things youinstituted to drive that alignment and, let's maybe talk through the digitalworld? We all live in now, because it's not as easy as it as it maybe was. Whenwe were in the office, we could get everyone together and do a littlemeeting. What are some of the things that you've done to enhance that alignment? Well, first ofall, what we do is the cro and we share our. As i said, we share similarobjectives, but we also share the same pipeline goals, so you know we used tohave previously. We would have the sales folks would have an alban quota.Adobon amount that they're going for and marketing marketing would have aninbound or marketing generated right.

So there was marketing generated. Therewas a stove pipe in between that was marketing generated, and then there wassales out bond generated and we used to measure them separately. Now. Whatwe've done is completely blown that up so they're together. So it's mark it'sin bound and it's out bound together. Now do i track my marketing program sothat i know specifically what's working and what leads are coming in, of course,because i want no need to track that at a campaign level, but we share thatcombined goal between sales and marketing together. So that's one thingso then we have our sites kind of set and it what it does is it actuallyprevents what we call the hunger games, which is where did that lead come from?Was it a sales league? Was it a marketing lead? Was it and you knowwhat today, in the world of digital and in the world, of all the abmv thatwe're doing the countess marketing activity and in the world of the buyingcommittee? It doesn't matter like it doesn't matter whether it was tales ormarketing it's to be. Everybody should be working together to make that happen.There's multiple touches all along the way, and as long as we can kind ofmeasure the touches and measure the cycle, then we should be okay with that.So that's one way is a combined target together. The other is we do somesimple things like when we did and this year we did it virtually when we did asales kick off and the annual sales kick off, which we used to get togetherin person. Fingers cross next year will be in person, but it's actually acombined sales and marketing kick off. It's not just sales, because it's alsomarketing, because especially in the regions around the world, the fieldmarkers are working really closely with their selves counterparts. So we havethe same meeting and the cro, and i are both up on stage and we are again we'rea unified front and we are, you know, communicating the same message toeveryone. The marketing folks go through the sales training and the samething we run through marketing campaigns and the sales folks areexposed to what we're doing on the marketing side. A the other thing thatwe've done and part of that is so it's. Although it's the sales of marketingkick off, we also have the product people come in, so our productorganizations are now coming in to hear what the sales and marketing folks arebeing exposed to and what our messages for the sales of marching folks. So,although it's the sales of marketing kick off, we have a lot of people. Youknow that join us from products, so you know those are a couple of things we dosome. You know some other smaller type things in terms of joint meetings andmaking sure that we have a weekly senior leadership sales on marketingsink up. So we know what are we focused on this week? What are we trying toaccomplish? What do we get from last week and literally we do it every weekand we never miss it. So those are some some tactics that we use on a weeklybasis. Those are great. I want to pack up afew of those, so i love this idea. I think everyorganization should be moving towards kind of this one pipeline revenuenumber that is shared. I think there's nothing more demotivating when you'redoing your job, whether you're someone running a marketing campaign or you'rean outbound bedr, that's like work in your tail off and then you have tofight and scrap for this like attribution and it could be given tosomeone else and, like i remember, running bd teams and just ademoralization. That would happen when that that wasn't correct. So i lovethis one, this one number: how would you coach people to make the case tomove towards that one number, because i don't think every not all organizationshave made that jump. Yet, how would you coach people who are listening andthere may be like, i know we need to get there, but we've always done itthis way, how would you coach them to to present that to the organization?What are the proof points may be that it works. I think trying to quantifyand measure how much time people are spending on hunting, doing that hungergames and if you just try to quantify... much time and effort is associatedwith that that'll tell you something because that'll tell you how much timepeople are spending on it and then you can say well. We could direct all ofthat time away from that they could be selling all that time. They could betheir marketing or selling during all that time, and that alone for us wasworth the of right yeah. I bet that's a scary amount of time. The put you willquantify that i would, i would say up for people could be spending twentytwenty five percent of their time, doing that, particularly at end ofquarter trying to like map it all up. I think that's a great great thing. Ialso love just naming it how your game just soon as you give it that name likewe, don't we don't want to do. We don't want to do that. We want to move awayfrom that exactly and then you mentioned something. I love this ideaof having like a regine kick off, not a sales kick up bringing product into it.Let's talk a little bit about that because, certainly for me in my career, we'vebeen talking about sales and market alignment. People have been trying tofigure this out for a while, but more recently, i'm hearing product gettingbrought into the conversation more and more. Maybe it's like the product, wedgrowth, movement or, and it's kind of crazy that they haven't always been inthe conversation. Tolome makes sense now that that we're doing it walk methrough that relationship between sales, marketing and now product, and how doesthat sort of feedback move work? So i always consider it definitely considerat the triangle between sales and marketing and product, and we havevarious forums that the three groups at various different levels get tocommunicate in to get to sheriff. So one of the things we do on a carlybasis as we do well, we do both territory reviews, which is you know, aa traditional sales territory view, but then we also do a courtly businessreview for products and in both of those all three organizations andmanagement from all three of those organizations are represented. So whenwe're looking at something from a sales territory perspective, we have theproduct an that's in there to hear what of the? What are the product issuesthat are going on? What is it you know? Where are we winning where we losing?Why would we be losing and what kind of implications does that have on theproduct and so the product? Folks? Are there to hear that directly? So theyhave. You know they have that vehicle to hear about product. You know productfeedback, we have things like customer advisory boards, but they'll also hearthat feedback. But we also have the corley business review from the productangle, which is an update on how each individual product is doing, and inthat case then we can say- and we hear once we hear kind of what the road mapis. The sales leaders and managers are in that room and they're contributingand there you know they have a say at the table and what happens next on theroad map that doesn't always happen in all organizations right, a lot of times,sales and even marketing is totally separate from that product will go offand make a road bap they'll come back and the sales team will say well whowants that? Why are you doing that? So this is a nice way to prevent that fromhappening so that it's a continuous loop between the territory views thequaquara product reviews. We verify it through the customer advisory words andthrough other customer events, that we do so it's almost can think of italmost like a circle, almost like a loop. You know in terms of how thatcommunication happened. I like it almost like a fly wheel of ofcommunication. Where does success fit in that? Would you put success underkind of like sales bucket or is that is that separate? No, i think it's underthere. It's definitely in the sales pocket for sure yeah yeah, yeah yeahgot it okay. Yes, i think it's more than i'm sorry. I mean rupto, no, nocos! I so think it's more important now than ever, because a product experienceis so much broader. Now like a product. Experience also includes like what isthe user experience like what is the...

...trial experience like right, and soit's not just like building product now, it's building in experience and sosales and marketing are part of that. Experience that you're building forsomeone and more and that's why it's more and more important that we get theproduct you know viewpoint on it, because a lot of times product isbuilding that experience and you want. You know you want that full three nsixty feedback yeah. Absolutely. How are you thinking about? Are youembracing product led growth at aquia like? Are you doing more of this kindof assisted self serve motion where low barrier to entreate kind of any sort oftrial? Are you experimenting with anything like that? Or does it notreally work in the model? Yeah? No, we are we're experience you witheverything. From kind of you know, how do you do a self? How do you providelike a self serve demo experience yes to to a full, fledged trial experienceon a product, so we're looking at all of that we're looking at trying all ofthose to kind of see what works and and to see, because what we know is thatit's especially during the past world of you know everything going digital.We know that more and more people are researching on their own right cover,you're, doing more research, they're, doing more trials, they're doing moreinvestigation before any any of us even get to talk to them. And, yes, you canmeasure some of that through intent tools and you can track that, but themore you can provide self service options or the more you can meet their needs for self researchingthe better off. Of course, you're going to be yeah turned away. Here's anotherquestion in the similar vein, just because we have a great perspective onthese things, there's two kind of buzz words. I'm hearing a lot of product anto growth in the community left growth. How are you thinking about kind ofcommunity led growth? Is that something on on your your radar, like buildingeducational communities, for your prospects and that's not so much kindof product or service focus? Well adalia. We have a nice advantage wherewe have this huge open source community that fuels trouple right, which is apetimus. So you know when you got like a million and a half people worldwidethat are using and contributing to the product. I know imagine and that's whathappens with people, so you know there's like these one point: five, idon't know what the latest number is. Maybe is now it's up to one point: six,but million people that are using and contributing to the code on the product.It's you, you have a built in community, so our the drupal community is very,very strong. It's very global and you know enhancements just start, you knowfast coming and, and it's a way to really to have you know quickinnovation and make the product extremely extensible and thorough. Sowe have the trouple communities. We also have acacia communities and we arebuilding more and more upon. You know like helping to do. You know, connect apeer to peer. Do things like birds of the feather type. You know network ingsgetting together. We do that in our and our user conference every year andacquia engage, and then we have four online forms that were building to helppeople communicate with their peers or other organizations that are also kindof using using the products. So that's awesome so yeah you are. Howlong is that community been around you? You are like almost the perfect case.Stidy like hey. We were doing community led growth before community lettergrote school. You know, t yeah exactly i mean credit to the tropou. You knowwe are and the drop association drupal community who has been building thatcommunity for about twelve years. I think now. So that definitely is agreat example of just a global community that has kind of cometogether for the good of the community, and you know it really has kind ofacquate t to great innovation. So so it...

...certainly does work. You know it doesget over the that's awesome. It's certainly other before we kind of triedthis all together. Is there any other revenue trends that are on your mindright now that are maybe exciting to you that you have your eyes on. Well, ithink any other revenue trends. Let's see, i think, we're seeing reallyexciting movement happening in just the purchasing patterns moving forwardright. So we know this is what i say. So we know more and more that you knowpurchasing a particularly of spending price software is done through a buyingcommittee right and a group of people, and so the tools that we all have assales of marketers to access kind of group buying, behavior and targetingwhether that the accomplised marketing, whether that be tools that help usidentify measuring intent, kind of you know who are the seekers who's lookingfor what we have to offer or who's looking for our competitors. I thinkall the tools that we have in that category are super interesting thatmatch with kind of what we can. You know get out of ai and misture machinelearning or like incredible for us in terms of knowing. Where do we focus forsales and marketing? So do, i think, there's great growth opportunity inthings like making sure your targeting accounts, making sure that you're usingam techniques making sure that you're looking at intense signals and makingsure that that you also support the people thatare researching right. So i think this is the whole researcher journey is hugeand i don't mean job title researcher right. I don't mean that i mean peoplepotentia with in a buying committee that are doing research that are doingresearch on their room before they get to you, and you know what what we doknow especially now is that all the research tells us that millennialsgeneration gens that they're going forward. What they're telling us,because they're going to be there either buyers now will be future buyers.They don't want to talk to people, they want to do it on their own and by thetime they get to someone then they're ready to raise their hand. They willraise their hand, but at that point, you'd better, have good value, you'd,better know what your story is, and you better know what you're offering andwhat they're going to get. You know in return for that, so more and more we'regoing to see that i think we're going to see it's a generational thing andwe'll see more and more that they're researching on their own and we'dbetter, be supporting them somehow through that journey. Even if it's nota direct one on one yet communication yeah, that's a great a great call up.We actually did a a survey not not too long ago talking to jim millennials andwhat was informing their their buying decisions, and it wasreally interesting people over over forty when they cited what they used tobasically research and import their decisions. It was e books and whitepapers for for the top, and that's like okay yeah, that's what people we'vebeen living in that world for a while and then those are at the bottom, whenwe, when we did under forty to kind of like millennial and the top two werethey're, actually researching in a different way to the top two werereview sites, and then they were looking at what person thought leadersthought about things so that that was a really interesting shift. That'shappening is yes, they're, they're, researching more, but they're, alsoresearching in that a different way. They might not trust your branded casestudy anymore as much right. Exactly exactly the periods is big. That'sthat's very big. Also. The other thing that we found is that they want to lookfor organizations that are doing some kind of good in the world in some wayshape perform, even if it's small, even off it's a carbon flippin right, and sothat's that's important on their list did that come up and yours as well, itdid and something i personally spent a lot of time. Thinking about, i think i think be tob.We have a ways to catch up and you know... to see this kind of idea ofconscious capitalism is, is everywhere, because the market decided like we'reonly going to spend money with friends that are are doing in the right way,and i think db is like a little slower to catch up to this, but it's comingand it's a change, i'm i'm very excited, or that could probably be another wholeother episode that we could. We could do so. I think we got off on a tangentthere, but yeah interesting. I think i tell a way all right. Well, the thirtyminutes always absolutely flies by, and there was a lot of great great nuggetsin there kind of to wrap it up. I always like to ask this questionbecause people are are busy they're, probably listening to this, whilethey're working out cooking dinner on a zoom cal, who knows a lot ofmultitasking going on. If people only remember three things from thisconversation, what would you want? Those three things to be: let's see three things i thinkespecially now. There's there's not a better time to have there's no bettertime than now to have a great relationship between sales andmarketing between the c mo and the cro and all levels below right. Everythingfrom looking at the same target counts to ab to having the same strategy,sharing the same goals and pipe line goals. I think that's number one isthere hasn't been a better time to make sure that you have the greatrelationship, strong relationship between marketing and sales. I'd say.The second is think about, as you go to do your sales and marketing think aboutwhat we said about people moving to being researchers and that's changingthe purchasing patterns going forward so make sure what you're doing eitherin your product, your messaging, your sales pitches, your your outreaches,that you are making sure that you're providing value to that researcher,because otherwise people are not going to pay attention and the third isprobably more of a just a general tip. I always give to our marketers andsellers, which is don't just have happy years, whether you're in marketing orsales, be thorough, be paranoid right and don't always just have those happyears on that is excellent advice. I got that drilled into my head from a salesmanager very very early on, because i had a i had some happy years early inmy career for sure. Mappy guy had the happy years, but i learned that lessonearly on it's good to good, to have a level of paranoia for sure. Well, lyne.Thank you! So much. This has been a lot of fun. I enjoyed this discussion andto all our listeners have ye found that it's valuable as i did and we'll see anexact. This was another episode of the sales engagement podcast to help thisget in front of more eyes and ears. Please leave us a shining five starreview join us at sales engagement com for new episodes, resources in the bookon sales engagement to get the most out of your sales engagement strategy, makesure to check out out reached lio. The leading sales engagement platform seeyou on the next episode a.

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