The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 8 months ago

Sales Managers: Quit Cheerleading! w/ Shawn Buxton

ABOUT THIS EPISODE


One of the biggest myths about sales leadership is that leaders have to be cheerleaders. What should a sales leader’s job be?

That’s what I chatted about with Shawn Buxton, Sr Manager of Sales Leadership Enablement at LogMeIn.

What we talked about:

  • Why sales managers should forget cheerleading
  • The 4 main sources of motivation
  • Creating a culture of motivation

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

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Welcome to the sales engagement a podcast. This podcast is brought you by outreach, the leading sales engagement platform, andthey just launched outreach on outreach, the place to learn how outreach welldoes outreach learn how the team follows up with every lead in record time aftervirtual events and turns them into revenue. You can also see how outreach onesaccount based, plays, manages reps and so much more using their own salesengagement platform. Everything is backed by data pulled from outreach processes and customer base. When you're done, you'll be able to do it as good as theydo. Had to outreach Doo on outreach to see what they have going on. Now let's get into today's episode. Hello and welcome back everyone to thissales engagement podcast. Thank you for lending us your ear drums for the nextthirty minutes or so. We helped to be worthy of those ear drums.It's going to be a fun conversation. I am joined by Shawn Buxton.Shawn is actually the senior manager of sales leadership enable mint, so I've definitelyheard of you know, sales enablement rolls this idea of sales leadership enable mintis super interesting and that was part of the reason I really wanted to toget Shawn on at such a successful, fast growing company, log me in. Many of us are probably heard of it if you're in the tech ecosystem. But, Seawan, welcome so much to the show. Thanks for amy'sgot very excited to join you today to geek out on some sales leadership stuff. Let's do it, man. I'm a self proclaimed sales and marketing nerds, so I love this dice. excided to chop it up with you,but first I like to sort of set the stage. You know, thelisteners don't know where Sean Buckston came from. I don't know the full story.I would love to hear the the Superhero origin story of a how yougot to such a cool, fast growing company and how this kind of positioncame about. What led you to get in there? Yeah, great,well, I've been in either teaching sales, selling myself or leading a sales teamfor over twenty years, so I've been doing it for a little bitand logging approached me and so they were creating this new role because leadership developmentin their sales organization and become a real priority for them. And so westarted spending a little time getting to know each other and one thing lets thenext and before I knew it I was accepting offer to join the team.And, you know, I thought it was very interesting because, believe itor not, there's not that many roles like the role that I have,even though, if you think about it, it makes a lot of sense,because we spend a lot of time training our salespeople and we spend alot of time training them how to sell and how to sent the products inthe right way into problem solving all these things. Yet we've spent very littletime in training the sales management team to...

...follow through on all that training.And I'm sure you're well aware that. You know, training is just thebeginning of the conversations, just to being the discussion. I wish I hada magic wand where, if he came to one of my sessions, Icould just like tap you on the head and you'd be a master at handlingobjections or master coach or or whatever we're talking about that day. But that'snot what happens and what I found is that the manager takes that ball andthen runs with it. But, as you're also well aware, I'm surea lot of our managers came from a former sales background. They were justhigh performing reps and especially the smaller you go in a company, the morecommon it is to see them just take their top performing Rep. when theyget over like maybe ten or so reps, they take that top performing rep andthey make them the manager and while that person may have been a greatrep and have a lot of best practices, they can share the team. It'snot necessarily the same set of skills to lead a team, especially tonew levels of performance. And so what I really liked about log me inwas they were saying, Hey, this is a party for us. Wesee the gap here and it's a real competitive advantage for us against our competitorsto say hey, we have someone solely dedicated to building a high performance leadersand educating them on how to build a sustained high performance team. And sothat's what I do every day and I love doing it. It's very warning. I get to work with some of the best selles eaters on the planet, I say at long me in, and also do some consulting on thesides. I get to. They allow me to spread my wings a littlebit as long as it's not a competitor, you know, and so it's areally great role for me. That's awesome. I feel like you're right, this is not a very, very common role, although it should be, and I think over the course of the next few years we'll see morerules like this emerge, whether it's focused purely on sales leadership, marketing leadership, even all maybe revenue leadership as a whole, because you're so right.So so many times it's the top performer gets a promotion and then all ofa sudden, once you're like manager or director level, you're supposed to haveit all figured out, but there's like, okay, you're you're the one teaching, you're supposed to know, and many times people can be in theretheir first leadership role. Sometimes it comes more naturally to some folks than itis to other people. People are vary degrees of people management through their life, whether it's, you know, sports, whether it's music, whatever it is. So that's that's super interesting and I'm excited to dive really into kindof some of the areas of focus. They're also what makes a good leader. A lot of different areas we can we can focus on, but let'squickly take a step back. So two thousand and twenty plus years of experience. I can see some guitars in the back. You alluded to the factyou're actually a touring musician. I think...

...it's super important to quickly go throughkind of the career arc of story that I think I sales people. Weall have such unique paths that brought us here and some of US fall intoit, some of us get here and all sorts of whiney pass. That'sthat's it's always interesting to hear how people got to where they're they're at.What's kind of the brief story? Are Well, without boring your audience,two tears. I graduated from college and I actually was a worship pastor soI led. I led music at the Church and I discovered very quickly thatwhile I enjoyed being in the church and playing music at the Church and workingwith those people, that that's not where I want to get my paycheck.And so I thought, what can I like, like what skills do Ihave that I can transition over into corporate America where I can make some realmoney and still use some of the skills they God gave me, and sothe one that kept coming back to me was just the ability communicating, toteach and even at the time, as a pastor, as a youth pastorespecially, I was constantly selling people to come help me for free, andthen I would sell other people and changing their whole lifestyle for something that theycouldn't see or touch or feel or here. And so I was like, man, maybe I made I be good as a sales guy, I don'tknow. And so I up hooking up with JP Morgan as a sales rapand spend a little bit of time selling there and did pretty well and theyapproached me and they said, Hey, you know, we have this kindof part time training thing where you're halftime a salesperson halftime a trainer, whereyou can teach other reps what you're doing that's making you so good at yourjob and you think you'd be interested something like that. was like hell,yeah, I'm really excited to talk to people and to teach them and toshare that with them, and that was kind of beginning my trained career.Of course, after that I transitioned fully into a training roll, but throughoutthe years, about every three to five years or so I will take timeoff and go back to just being an individual contributor to keep it real,to stay in touch, to keep my skill sharp, because one of thethings I really like to emphasize with the sales managers is, you know,you have to be able to execute the things that you're talking about. Youhave to do it, and the best way to sell your team on yourleadership is to just step up and get on the phone and do it,not to do it for them, but to show them that you can doit, to build their confidence in you, and then they will then in turn, accept your insight and your coach and will be much more apt toaccept that. And so I love to go back and sell. I stillsell now as a consultant, but also enjoy that training and just helping peopleconnect the dots to say wow, this is this is like something that's workedfor a lot of people and it can work for me and I've been reallypuzzled about how to get over this obstacle and so I really enjoy watching thatlight go off. So that's kind of it and that show I'm just gogglingback and forth between selling or teaching sales for last you know, like Isaid, twenty years I hate to keep emphasizing that because I makes me soundold, but it's a truth. That's...

...that's awesome. So I really likethat approach of Hey, go, go on these like teaching sprees, butthen also go sharpen the acts and go back like do the role. That'ssuch a great way to look at it, so that you're not just teaching theory. No, I literally like just did this stuff, and I thinkthat's where a lot of training systems, even trainers like, fall down,because it's okay, I get it what you're saying, but you haven't donethis for ten, fifteen years and times of change, particularly in this timewe're all in now, we're like the pace of evolution and advance frame isjust insane. So the sales landscape is different, like even in six monthsfrom now it's going to be totally different. So I really love that approach.How do you adopt or teach almost that personal approach, or how doyou intertwine that thinking with some of the leaders that you coach right, likedo you suggest them doing some sort of like form of that? Like it'snot possible for all of them, you know, a director, to gobeing I see all the time. But how do you kind of coach theleaders that you work with to make sure that they do have a good fingeron the pulse? Because I think you're right, leading from the front isarguably the only way to do it. Well, a lot of times youcan jump on the phone or doesn't make sense. Oh, or it givesit the customer of the wrong impression. If you jump on the phone asa manager, kind of D deflates the rock a little bit or, yeah, knocks them down and notch in the eyes of customer. But what youcan do is you can be role playing, you can be modeling the way inTeam Meetings, in your coaching sessions. You know, don't just say hey, well, you need to ask better questions. Will freaking show themhow to ask a great question, what that looks like. Show them howto handle objections. Stay be willing to say to your reps, Hey,give me the worst objection. You're here right now and they're like, oh, man, it's always price or price is too higher. All we triedyou before and you really screwed up our account. We don't you know,we don't want to come back to you again. Let's roll through that.Let's handle that objection and I'll be the rep you be the customer and let'sgo like there. I just post a video on tick tock talking about thislike that. That is really the only way to show people that that you'recapable, and what that does is it builds trust in your leadership. Imean like imagine, imagine, like a an athletic coach, like if youthink of like the Tampa Bay buccaneers or Liverpool football team across the pond,they're imagine if their coach is just walked on the field and had is likezero knowledge of the game or zero experience or zero background, and they justtotally relied on the players like come up with the answers. Well, whywould? Why even need a coach then, like why do we need somebody onthe field if they can't give me some kind of insight beyond what Ihave and based on their experience? Yeah,...

...very true, and I like thatgetting yourself into those real play scenarios. It's more like show me, don'tteach me, kind of thing. Yeah, which I really, reallylike. Switching gears a little bit. What do you see as some ofthe the lesser known leadership qualities that some of these new managers that just comeup maybe don't identify right away. Oh Man, I'll try to keep itshort, but I kind of like to approach it as like I try totackle manager myths. Yeah, so sales manager myths and these myths they comefrom like just these garbage articles on Linkedin. They're just so generic and there's justpeople plastic up content just to get likes and and it's very low hangingfruit. But the problem is like young managers and even, you know,season managers read this stuff and they think that this is like the way todo it and like the tropes like that. You know, people don't leave theircompany, they leave their manager, like we all know that at thispoint, like that, that stuff is like twenty, thirty years old.So the fresh stuff, I think, is really in looking at everything withthe new set of eyes and saying, is this still real, is thisstill applicable, or is this more like a sales manager myth? So thatyou know, one that that I like to talk about with my managers alot is this concept of motivation and it's one of the most guilty culprits ononline people talking about motivation. The approach I take, but my managers.As I say, I challenge them. The manager myth that that's their jobto motivate their sales team. I don't believe it is. In fact Idon't believe that they've ever done it. I'll have some sales managers tell me, no, it is my job and you'll hear directors and Vpz I kickoffsand things like that saying, you know, we're here to motivate you and andI kind of cringe when I hear that because I think anything that I'mproud of in my personal life and in my professional life, and and tellme if I'm way off base in regards, like your experience as well, butI think about the things that I'm most proud of, my achievements,and I didn't have a manager motivate me to do that. It was aresult of my own self motivation that I did that. Like the stuff thatI'm not that proud of, maybe somebody got me hyped up for a dayor a couple days to do that, but the stuff that I really takepride in, like whether it's like graduating from college or landing a million dollardeal or, you know, winning the State Championship, whatever it is,the things that were really most proud of our lives. They were things thatwe only accomplished because we looked inside of us and found the own our owninternal self motivation. Yet manager spend all this time and energy and Resources ontrying to get their teams pumped up to do a job that, frankly,we're already paying them to do that anyway. Like that was kind of like thebare minimum expectation when I hired you was that you're going to come towork every day and do your best. Mr Mrs Rap Right, like thatwas the deal. What you told me you were going to do in theinterview. Told me you're going to crush I didn't realize I had to belike a professional cheerider and get you hyped...

...every day to get on the phones, and I shouldn't have to. And guess what, it doesn't freaking workanyway. All it does is frustrate you and makes you see me as amicromanager and a frustrate me because I'm not getting the results from you. Sothis whole idea of my job as a managers to motivate my team, that'sto me as a myth. And so what actually teach my managers is Iteach them and never motivate. Like, don't freaking waste your time trying tomote motivate your team, because you can't. Instead, spend your time and effortand energy create an environment and a team, a culture where self motivationis expected, it's incentivized, it's it's just recognize every single day and youbring your own self motivation. The starts in the interview process, telling peoplethat this is the way it is on my team. You bring your ownself motivation, I'm going to give you the tools of resources to support youneed to succeed and you're gonna be able to plug it into this awesome culturethat I've created and I'm going to support and remove obstacles for you along theway. So I think to me that's kind of like the foundation of ahigh performance team is recognizing that I'm not going to motivate you, that yougot to come to work every day with your aim, with your a game. I'm going to facilitate your success, though. Yeah, I like it. So in truth, I would callt like intrinsic motivation. So incredibly important. How because it can be tough to pull that out of something like yousaid, it's borderline impossible, right. How do you go about creating thatculture? What are some of the like, the tactical steps that you can doto try and increase intrinsical motivation in the individual reps on your team?I wouldn't even use the word increase, I would just say I would I'mtrying to help them connect with their own internal sources of self motivation. Sofor me it does start. It starts in the interview process setting the expectationthat this is not going to be like a regular sales job in the regardthat I'm not going to get you hyped every day. That's on you now. Doesn't mean I'm going to come in be a jackass and like tea,motivates you all the time, but it does mean that you have to bringyour own self motivation. And so I'm asking them, even in the interviewprocess, what are some things that motivate you? Basically, why do youcome to work? Why do you have a job? Like we're not buildinghouses for the homeless here, probably we're here to make money. So whydo you need to make money? Even? Why is that important to you?Well, because I and it basically breaks down to four categories. It'seither fear. I got to pay the bills, I'm afraid I won't beable to do it. It's fortune. I like you know, I likeNice stuff, like I like a nice watch, I like a nice caror House, Peer Fortune, fame. I like the recognition of being thebest one to bay, to know on the best or philosophy, the wayI was raised or my upbringing, my religion, my internal code, theway I see the world, demands that I do my very best every singleday. And so then we attached those internal sources of selfmotivation to a goaland after I've hired that person, then in one of the loans, Iwould sit down with them. It's okay, Scott, like you said that fortuneis one of the things that's motivating right now, because it will changein seasons. Fortune is one of the...

...things that's motivating right now. Yousaid you want to buy a second house, like a vacation house on the beach. How much are you going to need for down payment? What doyou think it's going to cost? You be like it's going to be likefifty grand or something. Okay, and then we start putting together a planassis the vehicle. My Company, my team, our products and services asthe vehicle. How can we get you there? What's it going to take? And then that that's what drives our discussion. So when you get themotivated, which you will, because you're a human being, it's going tohappen, and you start losing focus, I'm like, Hey, dude,come on, remember we're halfway to Your Beach House. Let's stay focused.You said you wanted this. When you don't Really Want My coaching, Ican remind you. Hey, dude, we're working together. I'm your partner, I'm coming beside you to help you to chieve this goal. That's reallyhow I get people to start being in touch with their internals, sources selfmotivation, and I remind them to like when they start leading on need tobe motivate, I'm like, no, dude, that's that's not what Ido. I can't do that. Think about any sales contest or the littlethings we do as sales leaders to get people hyped up. Those things areall finding good, but we expect way too much out of them. Weexpect them to to create like these super high levels of performance that we're goingto break sales records because you know someone's going to get a gas cart.It's absurd when you think about it, right or you they're going to getlike some Uber, you know, eats box or some shit like that.It's very it's very ludicrous when you think about it, especially in tech.We we're talking about big dollar deals. So it's really about getting people intouch with that. And if we want to do that stuff for recognition afterthe performance to say thank you, I'm all about it, but I don'texpect that stuff to drive performance and used to come from within them. Yeah, that's great. Remember reminds me kind of the the Simon synic start withwith why, which is so incredibly important. So so that was interesting. Sothere's those kind of your eyes, like for drivers there's fear, fortune, fame and philosophy. I would agree with that. Is there one,in your opinion, that outperforms the rest, like if you're driven by philosophy,is a better indicator of success then fame, for example? Have youdo lean towards one if you want to talk about what's more, the mostpowerful that I've seen. That I'm observed, and that's a beauty as like aspeople listen to this, the good news is these aren't just things Ilike jumped up in my bathtub one night like. This is based off ofme working with top performance sales leaders for twenty years and really observing them andand saving their best practices to share with you. So, that being said, the ones that I've seen the air most effective our fear and philosophy.Like you think about fear, like I got to pay my bills. Youcan see people do some crazy stuff off when they got to pay their bills. Yeah right, like they'll go. They'll make two hundred calls at dayinstead of the hundred because they got to pay the bills, versus, youknow, philosophy is great because that gets to the heart of like who peoplereally are, like their upbringing and and a lot of times the philosophy andhow they see life. By the time we get them that's already in stone. It is what it is, so...

I don't expect to change that much. It's either there or it isn't there, and if it isn't there, thenI'm hoping that they're afraid of not paying some bills. You know,it's just like when they talk about the wolf of wall streets, like Iwant you guys to go into freaking debt because I want you to be scared, because that's when people move, right, if it's not a philosophical makeup,people move when they're scared, and I'm not trying. I'm not talkingabout US scaring them. And Yeah, it sales either's I'm talking like theyhave things in their life that are driving them. Yeah, yeah, so, okay, that's that's cool. So fear philosophy that the to top driversthat you've seen. Is there a way, like, have you found since ifthose are the top two, obviously don't want to use fear as alever. That's that's an awful, beam mean thing to do. But canyou almost in doctor someone in a philosophy that's going to help them? Oragain, it's that's something that kind of has to be figured out on theirown. I think that you can establish a culture of high performance and ofexcellence, like a standard of excellence on your team, and people will become uncomfortable if they're not aligned with that. So that doesn't make them a badperson, it just might mean that this is the right team for them, that they need to go be on a team. I get the competition. That's going to be excited about hitting quota every month where. So ifyou're on my team, I want to quotas just like this starting line,like I just want to I want to start at quota, but then afterwe hit quote a couple times. Now we're talking about a hundred and twentyfive percent, hundred fifty percent, like new goals. So I don't knowif that answers your question, but definitely not suggesting, even with the fearthing. I'm just saying if somebody has to pay the rent, yeah,you can, as a manager, help them connect with that. That's something. You can scare them, but when they get unfocused, which they will, they will get lazy. We all do that. When that happens,say hey, man, you know, I want to make sure you keepyour Nice your nice apartment. I want to make sure you can make thatthat car payment. What can we do to close this deal over here orconnect with this this client or what have you? Yeah, it's really Ithink it's an expectation. If the philosophy is not already there, it's reallyhard to create that because that comes from like your your upbringing. But youcan make people feel a certain social pressure because the expectation that team. IfI go to championship football team and I'm the one that keeps fumbling the ball, I'm start to feel some pressure and I'll either rise to the occasion orI'll retreat from the responsibility. That's why I don't. You know, anothersales manage. Your myth is, Oh, I shouldn't pressure my people because ofquit. Well, if they quit because of pressure, good, seeyou later. I'm glad that you're leading because I know that I'm not pressuringyou without giving you the supports you need. I call pressure like I'm challenging youto be as awesome as I know you can be. And if Igo to championship team, which that's what I run, is I'll run achampionship team. I don't want to run a team that's just looking to hitfive hundred. If this is a championship...

...team, I think people will feeluncomfortable that aren't interested in being champions, and that's okay. Yeah, Ilove that, that way of thinking. What's the what's the line? Pressureas a privilege? I really like that. Want to be in a pressure environment. That means you're you're working collectively to this common big almost unattainable goaland that is privilege to get to get to do. I like it.Okay, so we talked to like some of these these manager myths, verylike people oriented. In my mind, there's kind of like two other bucketsof enablement. There's kind of like process, you know, how are you youcreating process to make sure that there's a constant feedback loop of growth,and then the third one being like technology. How can you enable this, thesame stuff that we used to do an office, to now do distributeit? Can you talk through kind of those two, two buckets of howyou how you think about process when it comes to your enablement programs, andthen technology, if you're using any? Yeah, I absolutely so. Withwith process. For me, I try not to overcomplicate things. Made it'sbecause I'm not very smart, I don't know what, but I try tosimplify things for myself. So I was just talking to somebody the other dayand they were saying that they don't really like corporate training because they think it'shyph like. They think it's just somebody coming in to our point earlier,they don't know what they're talking about, and I said, you know what, there's really only two reasons that that somebody says the training doesn't work.There's only two reasons it's not going to work. Number one, you couldbe right. It could be total bullshit and, and sorry, I don'tknow if we are allowed to swee our head. Yeah, correct, okay, correct, all right, so it could be too. It could betotal bullshit and it's just fluff and it is garbage and it is waste everybase time. That happens every day, all day, and companies all overthe world from training departments, admittedly so so. Number One, it couldbe you could be right, that it is waste your time doesn't work.The second reason that that training is not going to work, if it's notbullshit, is that somebody's not going to follow through on it. So tome, process is always about follow through, and what I mean by that Imean senior leadership is not going to follow through or the managers are notgoing to fallow the let's say I send my my team to sales training rightwith one of our great sales trainers. I send a team to sales trainingas a senior leader. They go the sales training. If, after thesales training the manager is not coaching to those sales principles and those sales skills, using the language, letting those principles really take route. Then it's nothing'sgoing to happen, nothing's going to be different. It was a waste ofeverybody's time because there's no fall through. Also if, for example, Isend my managers to a sales leadership training but as a director or VP,I don't fall through. Hey, I'm so busy I don't even freaking showup to the training to even know what the hell you're talking about, Buxton, and so how can I even coach to that? How can I fallowthrough and help any of this take root?...

That is a total waste of timeas well, and the training is not going to work. I don'tknow what the number is, but I would say that that happens a lotmore than we believe, where people go to training and the training was goodbut there's no fallow through. So nothing happens here. Go the training isa waste of time. So for me process, what's paramount about process isfollow through. We can put together whatever process you want, it's meaningless,meaningless if there's not going to be followed through from senior leadership. So that'swhy I've gotten to where, if there's an initiative, I don't even I'mnot even doing it unless I hear from senior leadership that they want to doit, and then I'm asking them. I'm saying, listen, is thisimportant to you or not? Because here's what people are going to say.I don't want to do this because this, I'm too busy, because of that, I don't like this, I'm not I've got my own style,blah, Blah Blah. Are you going to hold their feet to the fire? I can tell you most the answer. Most the answers are yes. Butwhen we go to put it into practice, and you might not realizethis until like a year down the road, they don't have the stomach for thechange. So it's about follow through with the process. For me,yeah, that's critical. It's like when you you know, you read abook and you finish a book and I yeah, that was awesome, andthen you, if you don't immediately start integrating it into your life, ina month's time you're like, oh, it was a cool book, butI don't I don't remember a thing on from from what it was completely gone. Yeah, yeah, I like that so, Yep, there. Anyhow do how do you? So I love that. The tip on likeyou know, make sure you know if you're building out any sort of nailand form of training programs, it's like top down. You need you needby and from from seed senior leadership. What other ways have you learned tomake sure that it's integrated quickly and effectively after a training? Is it inthe language you use? Do you do role play this? Is there away that you're I don't know, like technology, where you're tracking them goingthrough and having them do assignments? What is what does that look like?Well, you know, there's a lot of great tools out there right now, like Gong and other tools. I'm sorry if I'm forgetting your company andyou're listening to this and I'm not giving you the shout out, but there'sthese great II tools that I mean it's unbelievable what they can do now andI love them. They're amazing because to me the Most Valuable Coaching is sittingthere listening to somebody on a call, with them sitting across the desk fromyou or on the call with you virtually, and you guys are listening it togetherand then I say at the end of a Scott, how do youthink you did? You know, what would you do different? What doyou think you crushed in and what can we work on? And then youhearing yourself, you know what it's like. I mean it's so powerful to hearyourself on a call in the things that you'll miss, that you'll missin real time and think that you just crushed it man, and then youlisten later you're like, oh my gosh, I'm so embarrassed, I was terrible. So that kind of technology, I think, is incredibly powerful.Again, do the managers have the training,...

...though, to use that technology andthen sit down with you and coach you to it? Has it beeninstilled within them by seeing your leadership that this is paramount, that this isa priority to do that coaching? Or is this running this reporter, doingthis meeting? They're going over here? Is that what's important? That's whereI think the disconnect happens and that's why a role like mine and and thatother companies that would have this role, it's so crucial because the manager hasto do the reinforcement of the training that the reps go through. If youdon't, then it just never takes root, and it doesn't it doesn't matter howgreat the technology is. You know, I would argue then, that alot of companies today have too much technology, like too many tools,like so many tools and so many resources, and we've used that as an excuseto not give people one on one attention and for me, as afrontline sales manager, not to coach my people because, oh, we'll goto this, this share page here, go to this launch over here,go to this shared resource, use this tool. You know, we justrow more tools at him and it's almost like a parent with a kid thatthey don't want to spend the time with that kidneys. Keep giving them videogames or not traditions. Yeah, I just give the IPAD exactly exactly.I wonder, you know, you know, they wonder why that kid ends upgrowing up in jail or on the stripper pole. Yeah, yeah,I mean I call it, you know, like two of theronk. It's easyto go and think that a tool is going to solve your problem withouthandling the people and the process first. Awesome, man. Well, italways goes by, and I'd think this almost episode, every episode, itgoes by so fast. We're running up against time, but I always liketo ask this question. There's a ton of incredible nuggets in there. Iwould urge everyone to go and listen this one again. There was a lotin there that threw at you. If people only remember three things from thisentire conversation, or just three things that are super important to you that youwant to take the time to highlight, what would you want those three thingsto be? I think I would say number one, never motivate. StopWasting your time trying to motivate people to do a job you're already paying themto do. Instead, create that environment where people can be self motivated andsupported. Number two, I would say create an intentional culture. So manymanagers they just think of culture is like the company culture, like this bigthing up here in the sky. When there's layers of culture, that happen. And as a sales leader I have the opportunity to create my own vibeon my team and you and me can be piers and your sales manager.I'm sales manager and selling the same product or service could be a totally differentvibe on your team versus team Bucks and team Barker could be totally different.So focus on building an intentional sales culture, and there's a lot that goes intothat. I mean like a lot, like we spend a whole day justtalking about that. And then the last thing I would say is understandthe difference between time management and priority management,...

...and what I mean by that isI refuse, I won't do time management training. I don't do it. It's a waste of time because we all have the same amount of timeand day. It's really about you need to decide what your priorities are andwhatever the priorities are, those are going to get done first. The problemwith a lot of managers is they they see their day and they are theymisunderstand what the priority is. So, as a sales leader, there's threethings. The top performing sales leaders I've worked with over the years are alwaysdoing their laser focus on these three things. Doesn't mean that they don't do otherthings, but it does mean as soon as they can, they getback to doing these three things. You want to know what they are.What are Sarah Okay? Number one, building and protecting your culture. Sothat's high and right firing or right casting that vision. My Ges and Christ, sorry to pay up. Are these in. Are these in priority orjust these are the three things that should be at the top? This islike in sequence. I think time, not priority. They're all priority.These are your three priorities. Okay, but what happens first is I ifI get a brand new team, I want to thank what is my visionfor this team? Who Do you want to be? What's the mission?How one are the things we're going to do to get there, and thenthe values and what way are we going to do those things? And Iwant to write that out. I want to present that to my team andsay this is what team Buston is, and then you hire to that andyou fired to that. Meaning if people are top performers but they're not livingthe values that are on team bust and that's okay. They're not a badperson, but I have to be able to have the courage to protect myculture and say you're an okay dude, but you can't work here. Yougot to go work somewhere else, because I'm trying to build something great here. I'm not trying to just build something that I just don't want a bunchof quote of carriers. I want people that are crushing quota okay, sothat's building protecting culture. The Second One is coaching, then development, coachingthen development. Not Coaching in development. You'll hear the all time. OhScott Needs Coaching and development. No, Scott Needs Coaching or development. Coachingin development. Coaching is getting keep put of their current job. Getting proficient. No, not just good enough that we can't fire or that they're noton a pip or something, but really proficient and good at their job.Development is getting them ready for the next role. So why would I spendtime letting you lead a team meeting when you're not even hitting your number,just because you shared with me that you want to be a sales manager someday? Well, that's fine, let's get really good. The best wayfor you to be a sales men or some day is to be really goodat the role that we've been trusted you with right now. So you needcoaching there. Once you've mastered that role, then we start devoting company resources,including my time, to develop you and to give you stretch assignments getyou ready for the next role. So it's coaching, then development and thenthe last thing. The third thing, is removing obstacles for performance. Sothe third thing I should be laser focused on as a sales leader is clearingthe lane of all the things that would get in the way of the oneobjective that my team has, which is to sell. It's not to becustomer service agents, it's not to handle...

...billing issues, it's not to fightwith opts or commissions or whoever the product team. It's none of that.It's to sell. So I need to be a filter and a buffer betweenmy team and the rest of the organization and sometimes between the people on myteam and solve conflict resolution, because most the obstacles we create that we needto overcome on a sales team are made by poor communication. They're created byUS having disconnects. And so if I focus on those three things, building, Protecting Culture, coaching then development, remove an obstacles for performance. Iguarantee you, if you understand the components all three of those things that youwill be an exceptional sales leader. You will be heads and shoulders above thecompetition. But there's a lot that goes into each one of those things.It's not something I can just, you know, rattle off in a thirtyminute podcast. Yeah, yeah, I love that. Never motivate create thatintentional vibe. Priority Management over time management. I really like the way of framingthat. I agree, and have them them focusing on building, protectingculture, coaching, then development. Also, gree I've never heard of put thatway, but you're totally right. Why are you going to be settingthem up for their five year plan when they're not even brushing it right now? That can just be a distraction at that point and then it's your jobto remove obstacles. I like a man. Well, thank you. You're anabsolute wealth of knowledge, my friend. We probably probably could have gone onand on and on for for another hour and a half or so pickingthat brain of yours, but thank you so much for sharing insight with thelisteners and for all those that joined us. Thank you. I hope you learneda thing or two. I know idea and will see you again nextepisode. All Right, thanks, Scott. This was another episode of the salesengagement podcast. To help this get in front of more eyes and ears, please leave us a shining five star review. Join US at sales engagementcomfor new episodes. Resources in the book on sales engagement to get the mostout of your sales engagement strategy make sure to check out outreach. That iohthe leading sales engagement platform. See you on the next episode.

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