The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

Sales Managers: Quit Cheerleading! w/ Shawn Buxton

ABOUT THIS EPISODE


One of the biggest myths about sales leadership is that leaders have to be cheerleaders. What should a sales leader’s job be?

That’s what I chatted about with Shawn Buxton, Sr Manager of Sales Leadership Enablement at LogMeIn.

What we talked about:

  • Why sales managers should forget cheerleading
  • The 4 main sources of motivation
  • Creating a culture of motivation

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

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Welcome to the sales engagement a podcast. This podcast is brought you by outreach, the leading sales engagement platform, and they just launched outreach on outreach, the place to learn how outreach well does outreach learn how the team follows up with every lead in record time after virtual events and turns them into revenue. You can also see how outreach ones account based, plays, manages reps and so much more using their own sales engagement platform. Everything is backed by data pulled from outreach processes and customer base. When you're done, you'll be able to do it as good as they do. Had to outreach Doo on outreach to see what they have going on. Now let's get into today's episode. Hello and welcome back everyone to this sales engagement podcast. Thank you for lending us your ear drums for the next thirty minutes or so. We helped to be worthy of those ear drums. It's going to be a fun conversation. I am joined by Shawn Buxton. Shawn is actually the senior manager of sales leadership enable mint, so I've definitely heard of you know, sales enablement rolls this idea of sales leadership enable mint is super interesting and that was part of the reason I really wanted to to get Shawn on at such a successful, fast growing company, log me in. Many of us are probably heard of it if you're in the tech ecosystem. But, Seawan, welcome so much to the show. Thanks for amy's got very excited to join you today to geek out on some sales leadership stuff. Let's do it, man. I'm a self proclaimed sales and marketing nerds, so I love this dice. excided to chop it up with you, but first I like to sort of set the stage. You know, the listeners don't know where Sean Buckston came from. I don't know the full story. I would love to hear the the Superhero origin story of a how you got to such a cool, fast growing company and how this kind of position came about. What led you to get in there? Yeah, great, well, I've been in either teaching sales, selling myself or leading a sales team for over twenty years, so I've been doing it for a little bit and logging approached me and so they were creating this new role because leadership development in their sales organization and become a real priority for them. And so we started spending a little time getting to know each other and one thing lets the next and before I knew it I was accepting offer to join the team. And, you know, I thought it was very interesting because, believe it or not, there's not that many roles like the role that I have, even though, if you think about it, it makes a lot of sense, because we spend a lot of time training our salespeople and we spend a lot of time training them how to sell and how to sent the products in the right way into problem solving all these things. Yet we've spent very little time in training the sales management team to...

...follow through on all that training. And I'm sure you're well aware that. You know, training is just the beginning of the conversations, just to being the discussion. I wish I had a magic wand where, if he came to one of my sessions, I could just like tap you on the head and you'd be a master at handling objections or master coach or or whatever we're talking about that day. But that's not what happens and what I found is that the manager takes that ball and then runs with it. But, as you're also well aware, I'm sure a lot of our managers came from a former sales background. They were just high performing reps and especially the smaller you go in a company, the more common it is to see them just take their top performing Rep. when they get over like maybe ten or so reps, they take that top performing rep and they make them the manager and while that person may have been a great rep and have a lot of best practices, they can share the team. It's not necessarily the same set of skills to lead a team, especially to new levels of performance. And so what I really liked about log me in was they were saying, Hey, this is a party for us. We see the gap here and it's a real competitive advantage for us against our competitors to say hey, we have someone solely dedicated to building a high performance leaders and educating them on how to build a sustained high performance team. And so that's what I do every day and I love doing it. It's very warning. I get to work with some of the best selles eaters on the planet, I say at long me in, and also do some consulting on the sides. I get to. They allow me to spread my wings a little bit as long as it's not a competitor, you know, and so it's a really great role for me. That's awesome. I feel like you're right, this is not a very, very common role, although it should be, and I think over the course of the next few years we'll see more rules like this emerge, whether it's focused purely on sales leadership, marketing leadership, even all maybe revenue leadership as a whole, because you're so right. So so many times it's the top performer gets a promotion and then all of a sudden, once you're like manager or director level, you're supposed to have it all figured out, but there's like, okay, you're you're the one teaching, you're supposed to know, and many times people can be in there their first leadership role. Sometimes it comes more naturally to some folks than it is to other people. People are vary degrees of people management through their life, whether it's, you know, sports, whether it's music, whatever it is. So that's that's super interesting and I'm excited to dive really into kind of some of the areas of focus. They're also what makes a good leader. A lot of different areas we can we can focus on, but let's quickly take a step back. So two thousand and twenty plus years of experience. I can see some guitars in the back. You alluded to the fact you're actually a touring musician. I think...

...it's super important to quickly go through kind of the career arc of story that I think I sales people. We all have such unique paths that brought us here and some of US fall into it, some of us get here and all sorts of whiney pass. That's that's it's always interesting to hear how people got to where they're they're at. What's kind of the brief story? Are Well, without boring your audience, two tears. I graduated from college and I actually was a worship pastor so I led. I led music at the Church and I discovered very quickly that while I enjoyed being in the church and playing music at the Church and working with those people, that that's not where I want to get my paycheck. And so I thought, what can I like, like what skills do I have that I can transition over into corporate America where I can make some real money and still use some of the skills they God gave me, and so the one that kept coming back to me was just the ability communicating, to teach and even at the time, as a pastor, as a youth pastor especially, I was constantly selling people to come help me for free, and then I would sell other people and changing their whole lifestyle for something that they couldn't see or touch or feel or here. And so I was like, man, maybe I made I be good as a sales guy, I don't know. And so I up hooking up with JP Morgan as a sales rap and spend a little bit of time selling there and did pretty well and they approached me and they said, Hey, you know, we have this kind of part time training thing where you're halftime a salesperson halftime a trainer, where you can teach other reps what you're doing that's making you so good at your job and you think you'd be interested something like that. was like hell, yeah, I'm really excited to talk to people and to teach them and to share that with them, and that was kind of beginning my trained career. Of course, after that I transitioned fully into a training roll, but throughout the years, about every three to five years or so I will take time off and go back to just being an individual contributor to keep it real, to stay in touch, to keep my skill sharp, because one of the things I really like to emphasize with the sales managers is, you know, you have to be able to execute the things that you're talking about. You have to do it, and the best way to sell your team on your leadership is to just step up and get on the phone and do it, not to do it for them, but to show them that you can do it, to build their confidence in you, and then they will then in turn, accept your insight and your coach and will be much more apt to accept that. And so I love to go back and sell. I still sell now as a consultant, but also enjoy that training and just helping people connect the dots to say wow, this is this is like something that's worked for a lot of people and it can work for me and I've been really puzzled about how to get over this obstacle and so I really enjoy watching that light go off. So that's kind of it and that show I'm just goggling back and forth between selling or teaching sales for last you know, like I said, twenty years I hate to keep emphasizing that because I makes me sound old, but it's a truth. That's...

...that's awesome. So I really like that approach of Hey, go, go on these like teaching sprees, but then also go sharpen the acts and go back like do the role. That's such a great way to look at it, so that you're not just teaching theory. No, I literally like just did this stuff, and I think that's where a lot of training systems, even trainers like, fall down, because it's okay, I get it what you're saying, but you haven't done this for ten, fifteen years and times of change, particularly in this time we're all in now, we're like the pace of evolution and advance frame is just insane. So the sales landscape is different, like even in six months from now it's going to be totally different. So I really love that approach. How do you adopt or teach almost that personal approach, or how do you intertwine that thinking with some of the leaders that you coach right, like do you suggest them doing some sort of like form of that? Like it's not possible for all of them, you know, a director, to go being I see all the time. But how do you kind of coach the leaders that you work with to make sure that they do have a good finger on the pulse? Because I think you're right, leading from the front is arguably the only way to do it. Well, a lot of times you can jump on the phone or doesn't make sense. Oh, or it gives it the customer of the wrong impression. If you jump on the phone as a manager, kind of D deflates the rock a little bit or, yeah, knocks them down and notch in the eyes of customer. But what you can do is you can be role playing, you can be modeling the way in Team Meetings, in your coaching sessions. You know, don't just say hey, well, you need to ask better questions. Will freaking show them how to ask a great question, what that looks like. Show them how to handle objections. Stay be willing to say to your reps, Hey, give me the worst objection. You're here right now and they're like, oh, man, it's always price or price is too higher. All we tried you before and you really screwed up our account. We don't you know, we don't want to come back to you again. Let's roll through that. Let's handle that objection and I'll be the rep you be the customer and let's go like there. I just post a video on tick tock talking about this like that. That is really the only way to show people that that you're capable, and what that does is it builds trust in your leadership. I mean like imagine, imagine, like a an athletic coach, like if you think of like the Tampa Bay buccaneers or Liverpool football team across the pond, they're imagine if their coach is just walked on the field and had is like zero knowledge of the game or zero experience or zero background, and they just totally relied on the players like come up with the answers. Well, why would? Why even need a coach then, like why do we need somebody on the field if they can't give me some kind of insight beyond what I have and based on their experience? Yeah,...

...very true, and I like that getting yourself into those real play scenarios. It's more like show me, don't teach me, kind of thing. Yeah, which I really, really like. Switching gears a little bit. What do you see as some of the the lesser known leadership qualities that some of these new managers that just come up maybe don't identify right away. Oh Man, I'll try to keep it short, but I kind of like to approach it as like I try to tackle manager myths. Yeah, so sales manager myths and these myths they come from like just these garbage articles on Linkedin. They're just so generic and there's just people plastic up content just to get likes and and it's very low hanging fruit. But the problem is like young managers and even, you know, season managers read this stuff and they think that this is like the way to do it and like the tropes like that. You know, people don't leave their company, they leave their manager, like we all know that at this point, like that, that stuff is like twenty, thirty years old. So the fresh stuff, I think, is really in looking at everything with the new set of eyes and saying, is this still real, is this still applicable, or is this more like a sales manager myth? So that you know, one that that I like to talk about with my managers a lot is this concept of motivation and it's one of the most guilty culprits on online people talking about motivation. The approach I take, but my managers. As I say, I challenge them. The manager myth that that's their job to motivate their sales team. I don't believe it is. In fact I don't believe that they've ever done it. I'll have some sales managers tell me, no, it is my job and you'll hear directors and Vpz I kickoffs and things like that saying, you know, we're here to motivate you and and I kind of cringe when I hear that because I think anything that I'm proud of in my personal life and in my professional life, and and tell me if I'm way off base in regards, like your experience as well, but I think about the things that I'm most proud of, my achievements, and I didn't have a manager motivate me to do that. It was a result of my own self motivation that I did that. Like the stuff that I'm not that proud of, maybe somebody got me hyped up for a day or a couple days to do that, but the stuff that I really take pride in, like whether it's like graduating from college or landing a million dollar deal or, you know, winning the State Championship, whatever it is, the things that were really most proud of our lives. They were things that we only accomplished because we looked inside of us and found the own our own internal self motivation. Yet manager spend all this time and energy and Resources on trying to get their teams pumped up to do a job that, frankly, we're already paying them to do that anyway. Like that was kind of like the bare minimum expectation when I hired you was that you're going to come to work every day and do your best. Mr Mrs Rap Right, like that was the deal. What you told me you were going to do in the interview. Told me you're going to crush I didn't realize I had to be like a professional cheerider and get you hyped...

...every day to get on the phones, and I shouldn't have to. And guess what, it doesn't freaking work anyway. All it does is frustrate you and makes you see me as a micromanager and a frustrate me because I'm not getting the results from you. So this whole idea of my job as a managers to motivate my team, that's to me as a myth. And so what actually teach my managers is I teach them and never motivate. Like, don't freaking waste your time trying to mote motivate your team, because you can't. Instead, spend your time and effort and energy create an environment and a team, a culture where self motivation is expected, it's incentivized, it's it's just recognize every single day and you bring your own self motivation. The starts in the interview process, telling people that this is the way it is on my team. You bring your own self motivation, I'm going to give you the tools of resources to support you need to succeed and you're gonna be able to plug it into this awesome culture that I've created and I'm going to support and remove obstacles for you along the way. So I think to me that's kind of like the foundation of a high performance team is recognizing that I'm not going to motivate you, that you got to come to work every day with your aim, with your a game. I'm going to facilitate your success, though. Yeah, I like it. So in truth, I would callt like intrinsic motivation. So incredibly important. How because it can be tough to pull that out of something like you said, it's borderline impossible, right. How do you go about creating that culture? What are some of the like, the tactical steps that you can do to try and increase intrinsical motivation in the individual reps on your team? I wouldn't even use the word increase, I would just say I would I'm trying to help them connect with their own internal sources of self motivation. So for me it does start. It starts in the interview process setting the expectation that this is not going to be like a regular sales job in the regard that I'm not going to get you hyped every day. That's on you now. Doesn't mean I'm going to come in be a jackass and like tea, motivates you all the time, but it does mean that you have to bring your own self motivation. And so I'm asking them, even in the interview process, what are some things that motivate you? Basically, why do you come to work? Why do you have a job? Like we're not building houses for the homeless here, probably we're here to make money. So why do you need to make money? Even? Why is that important to you? Well, because I and it basically breaks down to four categories. It's either fear. I got to pay the bills, I'm afraid I won't be able to do it. It's fortune. I like you know, I like Nice stuff, like I like a nice watch, I like a nice car or House, Peer Fortune, fame. I like the recognition of being the best one to bay, to know on the best or philosophy, the way I was raised or my upbringing, my religion, my internal code, the way I see the world, demands that I do my very best every single day. And so then we attached those internal sources of selfmotivation to a goal and after I've hired that person, then in one of the loans, I would sit down with them. It's okay, Scott, like you said that fortune is one of the things that's motivating right now, because it will change in seasons. Fortune is one of the...

...things that's motivating right now. You said you want to buy a second house, like a vacation house on the beach. How much are you going to need for down payment? What do you think it's going to cost? You be like it's going to be like fifty grand or something. Okay, and then we start putting together a plan assis the vehicle. My Company, my team, our products and services as the vehicle. How can we get you there? What's it going to take? And then that that's what drives our discussion. So when you get the motivated, which you will, because you're a human being, it's going to happen, and you start losing focus, I'm like, Hey, dude, come on, remember we're halfway to Your Beach House. Let's stay focused. You said you wanted this. When you don't Really Want My coaching, I can remind you. Hey, dude, we're working together. I'm your partner, I'm coming beside you to help you to chieve this goal. That's really how I get people to start being in touch with their internals, sources self motivation, and I remind them to like when they start leading on need to be motivate, I'm like, no, dude, that's that's not what I do. I can't do that. Think about any sales contest or the little things we do as sales leaders to get people hyped up. Those things are all finding good, but we expect way too much out of them. We expect them to to create like these super high levels of performance that we're going to break sales records because you know someone's going to get a gas cart. It's absurd when you think about it, right or you they're going to get like some Uber, you know, eats box or some shit like that. It's very it's very ludicrous when you think about it, especially in tech. We we're talking about big dollar deals. So it's really about getting people in touch with that. And if we want to do that stuff for recognition after the performance to say thank you, I'm all about it, but I don't expect that stuff to drive performance and used to come from within them. Yeah, that's great. Remember reminds me kind of the the Simon synic start with with why, which is so incredibly important. So so that was interesting. So there's those kind of your eyes, like for drivers there's fear, fortune, fame and philosophy. I would agree with that. Is there one, in your opinion, that outperforms the rest, like if you're driven by philosophy, is a better indicator of success then fame, for example? Have you do lean towards one if you want to talk about what's more, the most powerful that I've seen. That I'm observed, and that's a beauty as like as people listen to this, the good news is these aren't just things I like jumped up in my bathtub one night like. This is based off of me working with top performance sales leaders for twenty years and really observing them and and saving their best practices to share with you. So, that being said, the ones that I've seen the air most effective our fear and philosophy. Like you think about fear, like I got to pay my bills. You can see people do some crazy stuff off when they got to pay their bills. Yeah right, like they'll go. They'll make two hundred calls at day instead of the hundred because they got to pay the bills, versus, you know, philosophy is great because that gets to the heart of like who people really are, like their upbringing and and a lot of times the philosophy and how they see life. By the time we get them that's already in stone. It is what it is, so...

I don't expect to change that much. It's either there or it isn't there, and if it isn't there, then I'm hoping that they're afraid of not paying some bills. You know, it's just like when they talk about the wolf of wall streets, like I want you guys to go into freaking debt because I want you to be scared, because that's when people move, right, if it's not a philosophical makeup, people move when they're scared, and I'm not trying. I'm not talking about US scaring them. And Yeah, it sales either's I'm talking like they have things in their life that are driving them. Yeah, yeah, so, okay, that's that's cool. So fear philosophy that the to top drivers that you've seen. Is there a way, like, have you found since if those are the top two, obviously don't want to use fear as a lever. That's that's an awful, beam mean thing to do. But can you almost in doctor someone in a philosophy that's going to help them? Or again, it's that's something that kind of has to be figured out on their own. I think that you can establish a culture of high performance and of excellence, like a standard of excellence on your team, and people will be come uncomfortable if they're not aligned with that. So that doesn't make them a bad person, it just might mean that this is the right team for them, that they need to go be on a team. I get the competition. That's going to be excited about hitting quota every month where. So if you're on my team, I want to quotas just like this starting line, like I just want to I want to start at quota, but then after we hit quote a couple times. Now we're talking about a hundred and twenty five percent, hundred fifty percent, like new goals. So I don't know if that answers your question, but definitely not suggesting, even with the fear thing. I'm just saying if somebody has to pay the rent, yeah, you can, as a manager, help them connect with that. That's something. You can scare them, but when they get unfocused, which they will, they will get lazy. We all do that. When that happens, say hey, man, you know, I want to make sure you keep your Nice your nice apartment. I want to make sure you can make that that car payment. What can we do to close this deal over here or connect with this this client or what have you? Yeah, it's really I think it's an expectation. If the philosophy is not already there, it's really hard to create that because that comes from like your your upbringing. But you can make people feel a certain social pressure because the expectation that team. If I go to championship football team and I'm the one that keeps fumbling the ball, I'm start to feel some pressure and I'll either rise to the occasion or I'll retreat from the responsibility. That's why I don't. You know, another sales manage. Your myth is, Oh, I shouldn't pressure my people because of quit. Well, if they quit because of pressure, good, see you later. I'm glad that you're leading because I know that I'm not pressuring you without giving you the supports you need. I call pressure like I'm challenging you to be as awesome as I know you can be. And if I go to championship team, which that's what I run, is I'll run a championship team. I don't want to run a team that's just looking to hit five hundred. If this is a championship...

...team, I think people will feel uncomfortable that aren't interested in being champions, and that's okay. Yeah, I love that, that way of thinking. What's the what's the line? Pressure as a privilege? I really like that. Want to be in a pressure environment. That means you're you're working collectively to this common big almost unattainable goal and that is privilege to get to get to do. I like it. Okay, so we talked to like some of these these manager myths, very like people oriented. In my mind, there's kind of like two other buckets of enablement. There's kind of like process, you know, how are you you creating process to make sure that there's a constant feedback loop of growth, and then the third one being like technology. How can you enable this, the same stuff that we used to do an office, to now do distribute it? Can you talk through kind of those two, two buckets of how you how you think about process when it comes to your enablement programs, and then technology, if you're using any? Yeah, I absolutely so. With with process. For me, I try not to overcomplicate things. Made it's because I'm not very smart, I don't know what, but I try to simplify things for myself. So I was just talking to somebody the other day and they were saying that they don't really like corporate training because they think it's hyph like. They think it's just somebody coming in to our point earlier, they don't know what they're talking about, and I said, you know what, there's really only two reasons that that somebody says the training doesn't work. There's only two reasons it's not going to work. Number one, you could be right. It could be total bullshit and, and sorry, I don't know if we are allowed to swee our head. Yeah, correct, okay, correct, all right, so it could be too. It could be total bullshit and it's just fluff and it is garbage and it is waste every base time. That happens every day, all day, and companies all over the world from training departments, admittedly so so. Number One, it could be you could be right, that it is waste your time doesn't work. The second reason that that training is not going to work, if it's not bullshit, is that somebody's not going to follow through on it. So to me, process is always about follow through, and what I mean by that I mean senior leadership is not going to follow through or the managers are not going to fallow the let's say I send my my team to sales training right with one of our great sales trainers. I send a team to sales training as a senior leader. They go the sales training. If, after the sales training the manager is not coaching to those sales principles and those sales skills, using the language, letting those principles really take route. Then it's nothing's going to happen, nothing's going to be different. It was a waste of everybody's time because there's no fall through. Also if, for example, I send my managers to a sales leadership training but as a director or VP, I don't fall through. Hey, I'm so busy I don't even freaking show up to the training to even know what the hell you're talking about, Buxton, and so how can I even coach to that? How can I fallow through and help any of this take root?...

That is a total waste of time as well, and the training is not going to work. I don't know what the number is, but I would say that that happens a lot more than we believe, where people go to training and the training was good but there's no fallow through. So nothing happens here. Go the training is a waste of time. So for me process, what's paramount about process is follow through. We can put together whatever process you want, it's meaningless, meaningless if there's not going to be followed through from senior leadership. So that's why I've gotten to where, if there's an initiative, I don't even I'm not even doing it unless I hear from senior leadership that they want to do it, and then I'm asking them. I'm saying, listen, is this important to you or not? Because here's what people are going to say. I don't want to do this because this, I'm too busy, because of that, I don't like this, I'm not I've got my own style, blah, Blah Blah. Are you going to hold their feet to the fire? I can tell you most the answer. Most the answers are yes. But when we go to put it into practice, and you might not realize this until like a year down the road, they don't have the stomach for the change. So it's about follow through with the process. For me, yeah, that's critical. It's like when you you know, you read a book and you finish a book and I yeah, that was awesome, and then you, if you don't immediately start integrating it into your life, in a month's time you're like, oh, it was a cool book, but I don't I don't remember a thing on from from what it was completely gone. Yeah, yeah, I like that so, Yep, there. Any how do how do you? So I love that. The tip on like you know, make sure you know if you're building out any sort of nail and form of training programs, it's like top down. You need you need by and from from seed senior leadership. What other ways have you learned to make sure that it's integrated quickly and effectively after a training? Is it in the language you use? Do you do role play this? Is there a way that you're I don't know, like technology, where you're tracking them going through and having them do assignments? What is what does that look like? Well, you know, there's a lot of great tools out there right now, like Gong and other tools. I'm sorry if I'm forgetting your company and you're listening to this and I'm not giving you the shout out, but there's these great II tools that I mean it's unbelievable what they can do now and I love them. They're amazing because to me the Most Valuable Coaching is sitting there listening to somebody on a call, with them sitting across the desk from you or on the call with you virtually, and you guys are listening it together and then I say at the end of a Scott, how do you think you did? You know, what would you do different? What do you think you crushed in and what can we work on? And then you hearing yourself, you know what it's like. I mean it's so powerful to hear yourself on a call in the things that you'll miss, that you'll miss in real time and think that you just crushed it man, and then you listen later you're like, oh my gosh, I'm so embarrassed, I was terrible. So that kind of technology, I think, is incredibly powerful. Again, do the managers have the training,...

...though, to use that technology and then sit down with you and coach you to it? Has it been instilled within them by seeing your leadership that this is paramount, that this is a priority to do that coaching? Or is this running this reporter, doing this meeting? They're going over here? Is that what's important? That's where I think the disconnect happens and that's why a role like mine and and that other companies that would have this role, it's so crucial because the manager has to do the reinforcement of the training that the reps go through. If you don't, then it just never takes root, and it doesn't it doesn't matter how great the technology is. You know, I would argue then, that a lot of companies today have too much technology, like too many tools, like so many tools and so many resources, and we've used that as an excuse to not give people one on one attention and for me, as a frontline sales manager, not to coach my people because, oh, we'll go to this, this share page here, go to this launch over here, go to this shared resource, use this tool. You know, we just row more tools at him and it's almost like a parent with a kid that they don't want to spend the time with that kidneys. Keep giving them video games or not traditions. Yeah, I just give the IPAD exactly exactly. I wonder, you know, you know, they wonder why that kid ends up growing up in jail or on the stripper pole. Yeah, yeah, I mean I call it, you know, like two of theronk. It's easy to go and think that a tool is going to solve your problem without handling the people and the process first. Awesome, man. Well, it always goes by, and I'd think this almost episode, every episode, it goes by so fast. We're running up against time, but I always like to ask this question. There's a ton of incredible nuggets in there. I would urge everyone to go and listen this one again. There was a lot in there that threw at you. If people only remember three things from this entire conversation, or just three things that are super important to you that you want to take the time to highlight, what would you want those three things to be? I think I would say number one, never motivate. Stop Wasting your time trying to motivate people to do a job you're already paying them to do. Instead, create that environment where people can be self motivated and supported. Number two, I would say create an intentional culture. So many managers they just think of culture is like the company culture, like this big thing up here in the sky. When there's layers of culture, that happen. And as a sales leader I have the opportunity to create my own vibe on my team and you and me can be piers and your sales manager. I'm sales manager and selling the same product or service could be a totally different vibe on your team versus team Bucks and team Barker could be totally different. So focus on building an intentional sales culture, and there's a lot that goes into that. I mean like a lot, like we spend a whole day just talking about that. And then the last thing I would say is understand the difference between time management and priority management,...

...and what I mean by that is I refuse, I won't do time management training. I don't do it. It's a waste of time because we all have the same amount of time and day. It's really about you need to decide what your priorities are and whatever the priorities are, those are going to get done first. The problem with a lot of managers is they they see their day and they are they misunderstand what the priority is. So, as a sales leader, there's three things. The top performing sales leaders I've worked with over the years are always doing their laser focus on these three things. Doesn't mean that they don't do other things, but it does mean as soon as they can, they get back to doing these three things. You want to know what they are. What are Sarah Okay? Number one, building and protecting your culture. So that's high and right firing or right casting that vision. My Ges and Christ, sorry to pay up. Are these in. Are these in priority or just these are the three things that should be at the top? This is like in sequence. I think time, not priority. They're all priority. These are your three priorities. Okay, but what happens first is I if I get a brand new team, I want to thank what is my vision for this team? Who Do you want to be? What's the mission? How one are the things we're going to do to get there, and then the values and what way are we going to do those things? And I want to write that out. I want to present that to my team and say this is what team Buston is, and then you hire to that and you fired to that. Meaning if people are top performers but they're not living the values that are on team bust and that's okay. They're not a bad person, but I have to be able to have the courage to protect my culture and say you're an okay dude, but you can't work here. You got to go work somewhere else, because I'm trying to build something great here. I'm not trying to just build something that I just don't want a bunch of quote of carriers. I want people that are crushing quota okay, so that's building protecting culture. The Second One is coaching, then development, coaching then development. Not Coaching in development. You'll hear the all time. Oh Scott Needs Coaching and development. No, Scott Needs Coaching or development. Coaching in development. Coaching is getting keep put of their current job. Getting proficient. No, not just good enough that we can't fire or that they're not on a pip or something, but really proficient and good at their job. Development is getting them ready for the next role. So why would I spend time letting you lead a team meeting when you're not even hitting your number, just because you shared with me that you want to be a sales manager some day? Well, that's fine, let's get really good. The best way for you to be a sales men or some day is to be really good at the role that we've been trusted you with right now. So you need coaching there. Once you've mastered that role, then we start devoting company resources, including my time, to develop you and to give you stretch assignments get you ready for the next role. So it's coaching, then development and then the last thing. The third thing, is removing obstacles for performance. So the third thing I should be laser focused on as a sales leader is clearing the lane of all the things that would get in the way of the one objective that my team has, which is to sell. It's not to be customer service agents, it's not to handle...

...billing issues, it's not to fight with opts or commissions or whoever the product team. It's none of that. It's to sell. So I need to be a filter and a buffer between my team and the rest of the organization and sometimes between the people on my team and solve conflict resolution, because most the obstacles we create that we need to overcome on a sales team are made by poor communication. They're created by US having disconnects. And so if I focus on those three things, building, Protecting Culture, coaching then development, remove an obstacles for performance. I guarantee you, if you understand the components all three of those things that you will be an exceptional sales leader. You will be heads and shoulders above the competition. But there's a lot that goes into each one of those things. It's not something I can just, you know, rattle off in a thirty minute podcast. Yeah, yeah, I love that. Never motivate create that intentional vibe. Priority Management over time management. I really like the way of framing that. I agree, and have them them focusing on building, protecting culture, coaching, then development. Also, gree I've never heard of put that way, but you're totally right. Why are you going to be setting them up for their five year plan when they're not even brushing it right now? That can just be a distraction at that point and then it's your job to remove obstacles. I like a man. Well, thank you. You're an absolute wealth of knowledge, my friend. We probably probably could have gone on and on and on for for another hour and a half or so picking that brain of yours, but thank you so much for sharing insight with the listeners and for all those that joined us. Thank you. I hope you learned a thing or two. I know idea and will see you again next episode. All Right, thanks, Scott. This was another episode of the sales engagement podcast. To help this get in front of more eyes and ears, please leave us a shining five star review. Join US at sales engagementcom for new episodes. Resources in the book on sales engagement to get the most out of your sales engagement strategy make sure to check out outreach. That ioh the leading sales engagement platform. See you on the next episode.

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