The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 5 months ago

The Perception of Value vs. Actual Value


“Lead with value,” says every single person on LinkedIn. But, well, we all value different things. Let’s take a step back and think about what is actually valuable to the person we’re speaking to.

In this episode, I interview Mike Quiggins, Managing Partner at Eraclides Gelman, about the three aspects of creating value in go-to-market messaging.

In this episode we discuss:

  • How much does the other person care about your topic?
  • How open are they about the topic (willing to consider other views)?
  • How strong-willed are they?
  • The effectiveness of a simple message

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

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Welcome to the sales engagement podcast.This podcast is brought you by outreach, the leading sales engagement platform, andthey just launched outreach on outreach, the place to learn how outreach well doesoutreach? Learn how the team follows up with every lead in record time aftervirtual events and turns them into revenue. You can also see how outreach runsaccount based plays, manages reps and so much more using their own sales engagementplatform. Everything is backed by data pulled from outreach processes and customer base.When you're done, you'll be able to do it as good as they do. Had to outreach. Do Io on outreach to see what they have goingon. Now let's get into today's episode. Hello and welcome back everyone to thesales engagement podcast. Thank you, as always, for lending US yourear drums for the next twenty thirty minutes or so. It's going to bea fun discussion. I'm joined by Mike Quig Mike, Welcome to show man. Thank you, happy to be here, sited to to have you and forthose listeners that are that are joining us, we're going to be talkingabout something that I think is a super interesting topic. We're going to talkingabout this perception of value. All right, and everywhere you go on Linkedin andwhatever and says lead with value, lead with value. That's what yougot to do. That's the the golden key to everything, is lead withvalue. But I think value is is kind of in the eyes of thebeholder, a little bit right, like we all value different things and sosometimes we have to step back and think about what actually is valuable to theperson on the end, the other end, and maybe redefine that, because Ithink it's it changes over time too. But that's what we want to getto before we do wrestle with that topic, which I know it isgoing to be super interesting. Let's hear the backstory. What's the Superhero OriginStory of Mike? Sure? So, for context my Quig, I'm theVP of a couple of different things here at let's get checked, including enterprisemarketing. So all things, all things be to be go to market focusedinside sales and partnerships and alliances. So just a few responsibilities that I carryhere. But my major focus throughout the entirety of my career, which hasbeen spent in the health text bace is, is finding and adapting strategies to betterconnect in a value based way are solutions to people's ultimate problems and Ithink you know it's something that you mentioned, is that, you know, valueis in the eye of the beholder, and so everything needs to be treatedin a very like situational manner, but also the effectiveness of certain strategiesand the data being used and the ration now behind what works and what doesn'trequires a constant rethinking of whether or not those approaches work. So I've beenworking here with let's get checked for the past six months on developing a prettyrobust go to market strategy. For context, we, you know, we're atthe one of the leaders and at home help, diagnostics and tell ahealth really matching up with the consumer demands that have shifted due to covid withthe majority of people. In fact, I think it's an excess of seventyfive percent of people looking to or prioritizing access to care over in person care, and so it's a new world in healthcare and therefore adding value in anew world that's hyper complex and new to a lot of buyers is an interestingchallenge to figure out. So that's me in a nutshell, and what I'mwhat I'm working on today. That's awesome...

...and what an interesting time to tointa company six months ago. Let's quickly talk about if you like. Alot of people can kind of sympathize with this. How is on boarding andgetting up to speed in all remote during a pandemic? I think for alot of Health Tech Organization Sans, they've embraced a sort of hybrid model ofbeing able to work and flexing what would have currently been an all in officetype workforce setting to be more remote or Nimble, as you know, dependingon where the talent lies, which I think is really good, because there'sa heck of a lot of great talent out there that maybe want to workfrom Florida on the beach or in Montana and the wilderness, and so it'sbeen an easy transition for me because I know the space, I'm used toworking remote, but ultimately it's something that a category and healthcare that I knowvery well and I'm very passionate about. So, while it's always daunting tomake a move in the middle of a global pandemic that no one ever foresaw, I think it's brought a lot of opportunity, especially in the health textspace because of the the different dynamics and consumer demands and changes in workforce strategy. There's a lot of really talented people making moves through this and, asyou hopefully you know, knock on wood as we come to the tail endof this with the progress of vaccines and such. But I am I amnot alone in this experience of transitioning during during covid and it's a it's beena exciting, fun and maybe a little bit overwhelming, but in all thebest ways possible. So yeah, I feel like it's just the way thingsare now. I don't think we're going back. I think that's the youknow what's going to happen moving forward. Okay, so let's bring it backa little bit to this this topic, and I guess it's start with here'ssomething that I think it's confused a lot and the old thoughts of like value, for me anyway, in my world, was like, let's send a casestudy that we did with the customer, and that's my touch of value.That's what that's my first touch email and it's got value because I hyperlinked to case study to it. Boom, checked the add value box. Let'ssend it now we're good to go. Yeah, that doesn't help me asthe potential prospect. Maybe I don't even know you yet. Why doI want to know about this case study's not contextual my day. You'd bemy industry. Even if it's my industry, I round my operation different. Whatare some of those things that you think people think are valuable that wemight be confusing with things we think are valuable, not our customers and prospects, sir. So I might go off on just a little bit of atangent on this, but feel free to stop me at any time. Sothe way that I think through this is is obviously to a point that youmade. Creating that you isn't easy. It's hyper necessary, but it isn'teasy because advances and access through technology have exploded in the past couple of decades. So if you take a look at I mean these are decade old studies, but I think it gives good enough context. In Two Thousand and eleven, individuals were consuming five times the information per day compared to a quarter centuryearlier. So the prospects that were talking to or trying to access already havea tremendous amount of access to information. On their own right, and soyou have to have insight on that buyer...

...or target and have an understanding ofwhether or not they even have a problem that they want to or should bewanting to solve for but the typical approach that you had alluded to is thisbombardment of you know, I get a hundred of these emails of a daylike did you know that we can ten x your current pipeline, and thatthose messages are often ignored because really, psychologically, whether we know it asmarketers, are not, when you are sending those types of messages that arerather ill informed but well intended, you're actually attacking the current position that youraudience member your address see maybe having, because or you're speaking to them aboutsomething that they completely don't even care about and you don't know their problem,and a lot of marketers never even ask what their problem is. So Ithink what is important for marketers or anybody involved in growth to consider when you'reforming value based marketing is rethinking or recognizing that were frequently taking in adversarial approachin the fact that we're telling them our targets something, that they need todo better or that their way is wrong. Instead of really opening their minds tonew considerations. I think it needs to be more collaborative. We needto show more curiosity and kind of think more like scientists, to be honestly. You know, marketing and demand generation is like a dance, I wouldsay, and the like, mapping out a series of different dance steps toidentify common ground and you have to think through how you establish that common groundand ask what they actually care about. So when I break it down intosort of three different things that I think about in the curation, or atleast in the ideation process, of go to market material or go to marketmessaging. And I'm going to completely oversimplify it because we have thirty minutes andnot thirty hours to talk about it, but maybe a future episode. ButI look at this as as and people fall into really three categories or attitudesor beliefs, and it's really important to recognize where the people who you're speakingto stand so that you can drive the value that it would be perceived valuableto that person. So one is how much they care about the particular topicthat that you're wanting to reach them on, how open they are on the topicas it relates to like their willingness to consider different options, etc.And then how strong willed they are. And so when we message out,many of US fall into being logic bullies, to to kind of put it ina the negative connotation. But I mean it always feels good to knowa lot and that about a lot of different facts, right, and Ithink that facts help drive home a point. And then, you know, youkind of sit there logically assuming that humans act rationally all the time andyou're like, well, the facts are the freaking facts, but people arebehaviorally and psychologically predictably irrational, right. A nerdy example that a lot ofpeople, I think, have familiarity with is when we're selling to somebody.People are buyers or US as individuals make decisions every day that tend to valueimmediate rewards over future benefits, where you know, if I give a sillyexample, I'm not a salad lover, I'll put that out there. Butif I were to say, like you put a hamburger in front of meor a salad in front of me and...

I know that the sound gives memore long term benefits, but that Burger is so Dar and tasty, likeI'm going for that right. And so study show that the more the topicmatters to a person, that the quality and the quantity of the reasons andthe messages that were sending out matter more to them. When they're more skepticalin nature as a buyer, the more reasons are arguments that we make actuallytend to backfire as they feel as though they're being sold to. And sosome of the most effective marketing has been rooted in like one simple question orsimple message. I think an example, and this is kind of like offthe top of my head, I know it's something that I've read in thepast six months, but it was around a major university that has a,you know, a huge basketball following with, you know, diehard fans, butthere was always, you know, about thirty percent of the seats unfilledin the stadium. They tried two different tests from a messaging perspective of whereone of the emails that went out to season ticket holders was around or hadplayers on the team and coaches telling people how important home court advantage is and, you know, how they need to be there, which ch had noeffect on attendance. The other message was to season ticket holders, again justasking if they were going to go to the game and that drove about tenpercent higher attendance than the other message, which is statistically significant. But thething to think about in that is when you're giving people choice instead of somethingto think about and not telling them what's better or what to do or whatthey need to do, you're putting them in a position to rethink a currentstance and that opens up a dialog into being able to better understand what wheretheir goals are, where their challenges are, etc. So I articulated, yeah, you articulated that. That great. I had a few lightbulb moments asyou were you were talking. So there's this I feel like a lotof us still fall in this I love this term logic bullies. We fallin that right we have our Roli impact report that we're sending out and it'sall this logical facts and data and we're like, how could this not blowyour mind, like this is this is amazing and because that, that iswhat you perceive as valuable, and what you're going to saying is, becausethat's so add add the serial. The real value comes from when you sparka seed or plant a seat. That helps them do their own reflection ona problem and identify it themselves can be a much more effective approach, whichmakes complete sense, you think, if you're trying to give your friend someadvice, you're not going to you're not gonna go out there. Hey,did you need to get a new barber? You'RE gonna probably, you know,maybe class from seats as like hat, check that here cut you just gotor something. Sure, now you know. So that's that's interesting,really well well put. Okay, so one thing I wanted to touch onthere. So you said one of the buckets is like how much do theycare about this, this problem? I think that's that's huge and that wouldbe kind of, in my eyes, part of like what your ICP is, your ideal customer? All the people you're going after should care about thisproblem. How do you identify that? As a marketer? That's a difficultthing to do. Sure, absolutely, and it that's a great question,I think it I could dissect that into...

...a few different thoughts depending on whereyou are and sort of like your stage of the company that you're a partof, because brand recognition matters. Obviously. If you're a very prominent name,you're inherently going to have more people who know exactly what you do andwhat you would solve for them. So that's a totally different scenario than likethe world that I've been living in and sort of like a health text startupor even that the more mature startup phases. So one I think about using theright tools, I understand wholeheartedly, especially in the startup space, whichisn't like the focus necessarily of our conversation today from a company demographic perspective.But I've seen this at large companies and I've seen them at startups, wherethere's a reluctancy to want to invest in the right types of data insight toolsto help you make more informed decisions. And so I think about tools likean outreach. I think about tools like a zoom INFO that have functionality thathelps you understand whether or not your target market is even searching or cares aboutthe solution that you're offering. So if you can find a solution that allowsyou to understand buy or intent, you know where there's functionality out there,or that can look at Ip addresses for different companies to see if it deviatesby three standards on a particular topic, that could be something that you solvefor, and so that obviously is a good indicator that that's somebody who maybe interested in your your messaging or what you have to to solve for itfrom in a solution. Another thing to and this depends again where you sitin terms of brand recognition and market share. But you know, it's not allabout emails. We face actually a really, really interesting challenge today withemails, because we've all been sitting at home for but what like sixteen monthsnow, it seems. A last business trip I took was march seventh fromAtlanta back home to Chicago, and like that's a that's a date that sticksin my mind. It's a less time I do anything in person businesswise,and so the dynamics of email have shifted dramatically where we're in date, inundatedwith messages all day, every day right. So I look at my email addressright now, it's like if I've got ninety five of them, whichit's probably ten times that, but like ninety percent of them are external emails, like blindly emailing me on things that I should definitely buy, and sothose can get lost in the shuffle. So I think from a marketing perspective, you want to look at. Where can you get involved via, youknow, depending on the the industry or vertical that you play in, likehow can you get involved in thought leadership discussions? How can you collaborate withother organizations in a non sales way that you can provide thought leadership around thetopic that you have a solution for without selling it, because then you're generatingaudiences that are actively engaging and or interested in the topic that your business workswithin, and you can then start to use those targets to start dialogs withthat are now actively engaged in aware of what you do, and so it'smore of that hyper focused, targeted type... verse. So it's like it'squality over quantity in my opinion, and so that those are a couple ofthings that I think about. How you identify and ultimately are able to getin touch and start those meaningful conversations, not just cold outreach via email.Yeah, super important to do on the channel, and I love this idea, one we preach all the time is I always said, and even whenI was a seller back and back in the day, it's like just youactually want to teach the person how to fix their problem without whatever solution youhave and then at the end you're like hey, here you go, youcan this is how you can fix it. You can do it all like this. By the way, we have a product or service that can makeall of that much easier. But I've given you everything you need to likego and try and figure it out, you know. Yeah, and Ithink that's that's kind of the future of where we're headed with like highly educationalcontent. So I love that. This is one of those conversations that Iget frustrated that we only have thirty minutes because I can keep picking your brain. You're you're a pro and you know a lot on this this topic.But for the sake of time, what are three things? If people forgeteverything we talked about in this what are three things that you'd want people totake with them from this conversation, or even just something you want to plantin in there? Sure, so let's see if I can come up withwith three or two really long winded one. So, so one would be thedue diligence portion of that, and I would say invest in tools thathelp both you gain a better understanding of your target markets interests, but alsohelps to optimize the efficiencies and the automation of how you can reach out toyour intended population. That insight is invaluable. Right it's if you don't know whatthey care about, then you're you're taken a shot in the dark orthrowing mud at the wall to see what sticks, and it's well worth theinvestment. You know, we use outreach as an example and in the firstquarter of us being really sophisticated with our sequences and any of the rules basedprocesses we've put in place with that. Just by having that better understanding andthose efficiencies in place, we've got we've generated, you know, a hundredmillion plus dollars and top of funnel pipeline that didn't exist before. But that'sa combination of using real data driven insights as well as the right tools.They're worth investing in. To would be you get a lot of rejection emails, right or responses from people, whether you're in person or whether you arecommunicating via email. I've seen recent research by some consulting firms which I willnot name, but it's all about benefit communication and how do we position differentlyto be able to nudge people towards making a different behavior? But they neverstop and ask the question of the individual, like what would change your mind,you know, to assess, to assess where that buyers at in thosesort of three buckets that I talked about earlier. So I tap into mywhat my two and a half year old son does to me every day allday, which is asked why to everything right. And so it's asking,when you get pushed back, understanding,... what would ask for asking thequestion what would change your mind? You know, if it's different data,if it's a case study, if it's what, at whatever they need andhelp them to get to a point of rethinking their current position. You werenot always going to it's not always going to result in a win for you, but if you're able to get them to rethink, that's the first stepin getting, you know, making progress with that particular prospect. And threeis, you know, this is broad. It's on top of asking that questionthat I just mentioned, like what would change your mind, it's askingquestions about, or getting their perspective on, some of the challenges that you thinkyou can solve for but getting them to open up and start a dialogver versus the blind. We help everybody increase pipeline by ten acts. Whenyou go into it in a conversational manner, with asking questions and instead of deliveringsolution after solution, you tend to see higher increases, not just anopen rates, but dramatically increased response rates. And that's where you can start thedialog, be become that trusted advisor and ultimately lead down the path towardsmore deals that add value for all all parties that are participating in the conversation, because at the end of the day, that's what everybody wants. Nobody wantsto be sold to. You want a solution and do well by doinggood. So those are you, guys, my three things I'd I'd anchor on. That was some solid gold, my friend. Thank you for forsharing. Incredibly knowledgeable leader, Mighty. You hire and you have any openrolls and marketing, sales, anything shutting up to the to the listener?Yes, yes, absolutely so. You know, might quid on Linkedin findme and feel free to direct passage me. I am hiring for various marketing rolesinside sales rolls, sales manager roles. If there's anything growth related, Pingme because because I'm hiring for it, we have a massive amount of demandfrom the market and we are looking for highly skilled storytellers, thought leaders, creative writers and and selling pros to help us in the continued growth ofwhat we're doing here and making people healthier and having them live happier lives.So I love it. I love it. Such a cool, cool space.I wish I could clone myself and be in some of these cool industries. Met Medtech is such a cool space to be in right now. Hundredmillion and pipeline. You need some people to close that. You need tosome people to keep keep growing that. That's crazy. Go, go checkout my quick passome. That's a man. Thank you so much for hopping on. That was a lot of fun and for all those listeners that joinedus. I hope you found that valuable, I know I did, and thatwe'll see you next time. This was another episode of the sales engagementpodcast. To help this get in front of more eyes and ears, pleaseleave us a shining five star review. Join US at sales engagementcom for newepisodes. Resources in the book on sales engagement to get the most out ofyour sales engagement strategy. Make sure to check out outreached out ioh, theleading sales engagement platform. See you on the next episode.

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