The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 3 months ago

The Perception of Value vs. Actual Value


“Lead with value,” says every single person on LinkedIn. But, well, we all value different things. Let’s take a step back and think about what is actually valuable to the person we’re speaking to.

In this episode, I interview Mike Quiggins, Managing Partner at Eraclides Gelman, about the three aspects of creating value in go-to-market messaging.

In this episode we discuss:

  • How much does the other person care about your topic?
  • How open are they about the topic (willing to consider other views)?
  • How strong-willed are they?
  • The effectiveness of a simple message

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

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Welcome to the sales engagement, apodcast, this podcast is brought you by outreach, the leading sales engagementplatform and they just launched out reach on our reach the place to learnhow outreach well does not reach learn how the team follows up with every leadin record time after virtual events and turns them into revenue. You can alsosee how out reachin's account based plays, manages reps and so much moreusing their own sales engagement platform. Everything is backed by datapulled from out reach processes and customer base when you're done you'llbe able to do it as good as they do, and to outreach down io on out reach tosee what they have going on. Now, let's get into today's episode, hello and welcome back everyone to thesales engagement podcast. Thank you, as always for lending is your ear drumsfor the next twenty thirty minutes, or so this going to be a fun discussion. Iam joined by Mike Quigg Mike Bulson. Show man. Thank you happy to be here,decided to have you and for those listeners that are that are joining us.We're going to be talking about something that I think is a superinteresting topic. We're going to be talking about this perception of valueall right and everywhere you go on link Dan and whatever everyone says leadwith value leave with value. That's what you got to do. That's the thegolden key to everything is leagued with value, but I think value is iskind of in the eyes of the beholder a little bit right like we all value,different things, and so sometimes we have to step back and think about whatactually is valuable to the person on the and the other end, and mayberedefine that, because I think it changes over time to, but that's whatwe want to get to before. We do wrestle with that topic, which I know is goingto be super interesting. Let's hear the back story, what's the Superhero originstory of Mike sure so for context Mike Quigg, I'm the V P of a couple ofdifferent things here at let's get checked, including enterprise marketing.So all things all things be to be go to market focused inside sales andpartnerships and alliances. So, just a few responsibilities that Icarry here, but my major focus throughout the entirety of my career,which has been spent in the health text space is, is finding and adaptingstrategies to better connect in a value based way are solutions to people'sultimate problems, and I think you know it's something that you mentioned isthat you know value is in the eye of the beholder, and so everything needsto be treated in a very like situational manner, but also theeffectiveness of certain strategies and the data being used and the rationalbehind what works and what doesn't requires a constant rethinking ofwhether or not those approaches work. So I've been working here with let'sget checked for the past six months on developing a pretty robust, go tomarket strategy for context. We, you know we're the one of the leaders andat home, helps Diagnostics and tell a health really matching up with the consumer demandsthat have shifted due to Ovid with the majority of people. In fact, I thinkit's an excess of seventy five percent of people looking to or prioritizingaccess to care over in person care, and so it's a new world in health care andtherefore adding value in a new world. That's hyper, complex and new to a lotof buyers is an interesting challenge tofigure out. So that's me in a not show...

...and what what I'm working on todaythat's awesome and what an interesting time to toine company six months ago.Let's quick an talk about, I feel, like a lot of people, can kindof sympathize with this. How is on boarding and getting up to speed in allremote during the pandemic? I think for a lot of health tech organizations,they've embraced a sort of hybrid model of being able towork and flexing what would have currently been in all in office typework for setting to be more remote or Nimble, as you know, depending on wherethe talent lies, which I think is really good, because there's a heck ofa lot of great talent out there that maybe want to work from Florida on thebeach or in Montana, in the wilderness. And so it's been an easy transition forme because I I know the space I'm used to working remote. But ultimately it'ssomething that a category and health care that I know very well and I'm verypassionate about. So, while it's always daunting to make a move in the middleof a global pandemic that no one ever foresaw. I think it's brought a lot ofopportunity, especially in the health text, pace because of the the differentdynamics and consumer demands and changes and work for strategy. There'sa lot of really talented people making moves through this and as you,hopefully, you know, knock on wood as we come to the tail end of this withthe progress of vaccines and such. But I am, I am not alone in this experienceof transitioning during during Ovid and it's it's been exciting fun and maybe alittle bit overwhelming, but in all the best ways possible so yeah. I feel like it's just the waythings are now. I don't think we were going back. I think that's the you knowwhat's going to happen moving forward, okay, so let's bring it back a littlebit to this this topic, and I guess it's start with here's something that Ithink it's confused a lot and the old thoughts of like value for me anyway inmy world was like, let's send a case study that we did with the customer andthat's my touch of value. That's that's! My first touch email and it's got valuebecause I hyperlinked a case study to it. Bome checked the AD value box.Let's send it now we're good to go them that doesn't help me as the potentialprospect. Maybe I don't even know you yet. Why do I want to know about thiscase? That is not con. textural may Ha me my industry. Even if it's myindustry, I run my opurei different. What are some of those things that youthink people think are valuable, that we might be confusing with things wethink are valuable, not our customers and prospects there. So I might go offon just a little bit of a tangent on this but feel free to stop me at anytime. The way that I think through this is is obviously to a point that youmake. Creating value, isn't easy, it's hyper necessary, but it isn't easybecause advances and access through technology have exploded in the pastcouple of decades. So if you take a look at I mean these are decade oldstudies, but I think it gives good enough context in two thousand andeleven individuals were consuming five times the information per day comparedto a quarter century earlier, so the prospects that were talking to ortrying to access already have a tremendous amount of access toinformation on their own right, and so... have to have insight on that buyeror target and have an understanding of whether or not they even have a problemthat they want to or should be wanting to solve for, but the typical approachat that you had alluded to. As this bombardment of you know, I get ahundred of these emails a day like do. You know that we can ten your currentpipeline and that those messages are often ignored because reallypsychologically, whether we know it is marketers or not when you are sendingthose types of messages that are rather ill informed but well intendedyou're, actually attacking a current position that your audience member,your address, may be having because or you're speaking to them about somethingthat they completely. Don't. Even care about- and you don't know their problemand a lot of marketers, never even ask what their problem is. So I think whatis important for marketers or anybody involved in growth to consider whenyou're, forming value based marketing is rethinking or recognizing that werefrequently taking in adversarial approach in the fact that we're tellingthem our targets, something that they need to do better or that their way iswrong. Instead of really opening their mindsto new considerations, I think it needs to be more collaborative. We need toshow more curiosity and kind of think more like scientists to be honestly,you know, marketing and demand generation is like a dance I would say,and the like Mamang out a series of different dance steps to identifycommon ground, and you have to think through how you establish that commonground and ask what they actually care about. So when I break it down intosort of three different things that I think about in the curation, or atleast in the aviation process of go to market material or go to marketmessaging, and I'm going to completely oversimplify it, because we have thirtyminutes and not thirty hours to talk about it. But maybe a future episode. But I lookat this, as is in people, fall into really three categories or attitudes orbeliefs. And it's really important to recognize where the people who you'respeaking to stand is so that you can drive the value that it would beperceived valuable to that person. So one is how much they care about the particulartopic that that you're wanting to reach them on how open they are on the topic, as itrelates to like the willingness to consider different options, etc andthen how strong willed they are. And so, when we message out, many of USfall into being logic bullies to kind of put it in a in a negativeconnotation. But I mean it always feels good to know a lot and that about a lotof different facts. Right anything that facts help drive home a point, and thenyou know you kind of sit there logically, assuming that humans actrationally all the time and you're like well. The facts are the freaking facts,but people are behaviorally and psychologically predictably irrationalright. An nerdy example that a lot of people I think have familiarity with iswhen we're selling to somebody. People are buyers for us as individuals makedecisions every day that tend to value immediate rewards over future benefits.Where you know, if I give a silly example, I'm not a salad lover. I putthat out there. But if I were to say, like you put a hamburger in front of meor a salad in front of me, and I know...

...that the salad gives me more long termbenefits, but that Burger is so darned tasty, like I'm going for that rightand so studies show that the more the topicmatters to a person that the quality and the quantity of the reasons and themessages that were sending out matter more to them when they're more skeptical in natureas a buyer. The more reasons or arguments that we make actually tend toback fire as they feel as though they're being sold to, and so some of the most effectivemarketing has been rooted in, like one simple question or a simple message, Ithink an example- and this is kind of like off the top of my head. I knowit's something that I've read in the past six months, but it was around amajor university that has you know a huge basketball, following with youknow, die hard fans, but there was always you know about thirty percent ofthe seat, some filled in the stadium. They try two different tests from amessaging perspective where one of the emails that went out to season ticketholders was around or had players on the team and coaches telling people howimportant home court advantage does, and you know how they need to be therewhich had no effect on attendance. The other message was to season ticketholders again just asking if they were going to go to the game and that droveabout ten percent higher attendance than the other message, which is astatistically significant, but the thing to think about in that is, whenyou're giving people choice instead of something to think about and thattelling them what's better or what to do or what they need to do, you're,putting them in a position to rethink a current stance, and that opens up adialogue into being able to to better understand where their goals are, wheretheir challenges are etc. So you articulated yeah. Youarticulated that that great I had a few light bulb moments as you were. Youwere talking so there's this. I feel, like a lot of us still fall in this. Ilove this term logic bullies. We fall in that right. We have our RI impact report that we're sending out,and it's all this logical facts and data and were like how could this notblow your mind like this is this is amazing and because that that is what you perceive as valuableand what you're kind of saying is, because that's so a adviser, Al thereal value comes from when you spark a seed or Plantas that helps them dotheir own reflection on a problem and identify it themselves can be a muchmore effective approach, which makes complete sense. You think, ifyou're trying to give your friend some advice, you're not going to you're, notgonna, go out yeah hey did you need to get a new barber you're going toprobably you know, maybe class of seats as like a like that air? You just gother some fissure now you know. So that's that's interesting! Really well!Well put okay! So one thing I wanted to touch on there, so you should one ofthe buckets is like: How much do they care about this? Thisproblem, I think, that's that's huge and that would be kind of in my eyes, part of like what your I CP is yourIdeal Custom Co. The people you're going after should care about thisproblem. How do you identify that as a marketer? That's a difficult thing todo sure. Absolutely and that's a great question. I think it.

I could dissect that into a fewdifferent thoughts, depending on where you are and sort of like your stage ofthe company that you're a part of because brand recognition matters.Obviously, if you're, a very prominent name, you're, inherently going to havemore people who know exactly what you do and what you would solve for them.So that's a totally different scenario than like the world that I'vebeen living in and sort of like a health tech startup or even that themore mature start up phases. So one I think about using the right tools Iunderstand wholeheartedly, especially in the start up space, which isn't likethe focus necessarily of our conversation today from a companydemographic perspective. But I've seen this at large companies and I've seenthem at start. UPS, where there's a reluctancy to want to invest in theright types of data insight tools to help you make more informed tosufficiens, and so I think about tools like an outreach. I think about toolslike a zoom INFO that have functionality that helps you understandwhether or not your target market is even searching or cares about thesolution that you're offering. So if you can find a a solution that allowsyou to understand by your intent, you know where there's functionality outthere that can look at Ip addresses for different companies to see if hedeviates by three standards on a particular topic. That could besomething that you solve for, and so that obviously, is a good indicatorthat that's somebody who may be interested in your your messaging orwhat you have to solve for it from in a solution anotherthing to, and this depends again where you sit in tones of brand recognitionand market share. But you know it's not all about emails. Weface actually really really interesting challenge today with emails, becausewe've all been sitting at home for, but what, like, sixteen months now, itseems the last business trip I took was march seventh from Atlanta back home toChicago, and I, like that's a that's a date that sticks in my mind. It's thelast time. I do that, I think in person, business, wise and so the dynamics ofemail have shifted dramatically where we're in date inundated with messagesall day every day right. So I look at my email address right now. It's likeif I've got ninety five of the Wich. It's probably ten times that but likeninety percent of them are external emails, like blindly emailing me onthings that I should definitely buy, and so those can get lost in theshuffle. So I think from a marketing perspective, you want to look at. Wherecan you get involved? The you know, depending on the theindustry or vertical that you play in like how can you get involved inthought leadership discussions? How can you collaborate with otherorganizations and a non sales way that you can provide that leadership aroundthe topic that you have a solution for without selling it, because then you'regenerating audiences that are actively engaging and or interested in the topicthat Your Business Works with it? And you can then start to use those targetsto start dialogues with that are now actively engaged and Awaret of what youdo, and so it's more of that hyper...

...focus, targeted type marketing verse.So it's like it's quality over quantity in my opinion, and so that those are acouple of things that I think about how you identify and ultimately are able toget in touch and start those meaningful conversations that just cold out reach.BA email, yeah super important to do Amy Channel- and I love this idea whenwe preach all the time. As I always said, and even when I was a seller backat back in the day, it's like just. You actually want to teach the person howto fix their problem without whatever solution you have and then at the eyou're like hey here here, you go, you can. This is how you can fix it. Youcan do it all like this. By the way we have a product or service that can makeall of that much easier, but I've, given you everything you need to like,go and try and figure it out. You know yeah and I think that's that's kind ofthe future of where we're added with like highly educational content. So Ilove that this is one of those conversations that I get frustrated,that we only have thirty minutes, because I can keep keep from pickingyour brain, your you're a pro-- and you know a lot on this this topic, but forthe sake of time, what are three things if people forget it everything wetalked about in this. What are three things that you want people to pickwith them from this conversation or even just something you want to plantin in there sure so e'se. If i can come up with with three or two really longwinded ones, so so one would be the due diligence portion of that and i wouldsay, invest in tools that help both you gain a better understanding of yourtarget markets interest, but also help toptani the efficiencies and theautomation of how you can reach out to your intended population. That insightis invaluable right. It's if you don't know what they care about, then you'reyou're taking a shot in the dark or throwing mud at the wall to see whatsticks and it's well worth the investment. You know we use outreach asan example and in the first quarter of us being really sophisticated withtheir sequences and any of the rules based processes. We've put in placewith that. Just by having that better understanding and those efficiencies inplace, we've we've generated. You know a hundred million plus dollars in topof funnel pipeline that didn't exist before, but that's a combination,abusing real data driven insights as well as the right tools they're worthinvesting in to would be you get a lot of rejection, emailsright or responses from people, whether you're in person or whether you arecommunicating v email. I've seen recent research by some consulting firms,which i will not name, but it's all about benefit communication, and how dowe position differently to be able to nudge people toward making a differentbehavior, but they never stop and ask the question of the individual likewhat would change your mind? You know to assess to assess where that buyer isat in those sort of three buckets that i talked about earlier. So i tap intomy hat my two and a half year old son does to me every day all day which justasked why to everything right, and so it's asking when you get pushed backunderstanding like what what ask for...

...asking the question what would changeyour mind? You know if it's different data, ifit's a case study, if it's what i whatever they need and help them to getto a point of rethinking their current position. You were not always going tome: it's not always going to result in a win for you, but if you're able toget them to rethink that's the first step in getting you know, makingprogress with that particular prospect and three is you know this is broadit's on top of asking that the question that i just mentioned like what wouldchange your mind? It's asking questions about or getting their perspective on some of the challenges that you thinkyou can solve for, but getting them to open up and start a dialogue versus theblind. We help every body increase type line by ten x when you go into it in aconversational manner, with asking questions and instead of deliveringsolution after solution, you tend to see higher increases, notjust an open race but dramatically increased response rates, and that'swhere you can start the dialog be become that trusted adviser andultimately lead down the path towards more deals. That add value for all allparties that are participating in the conversation, because at the end of theday, that's what everybody wants. Nobody wants to be sold to. You want tosolution and do well by doing good. So those are, i guess, my the three thingsi'd i'd anchor on. That was some solid gold. My friend thank you for forsharing, incredibly knowledgeable leader, mice, you you hire and you haveany elsen roles and marketing sales anything shuttling up to the to thelistener. Yes, yes, absolutely so you know mike quid on linkedin, finds meand feel free to direct pessage me. I am hiring for various marketing roles inside salesroles, sales managed the roles. If there's anything growth related ping mebecause i'm hiring for it. We have a massive amount of demand from themarket and we are looking for highly skilled story. Tellers thought, leaders,creative writers and and selling pros to help us in the continued growth of whatwe're doing here and making people healthier and having them live happierlives. So i love it. I love it sex, a cool cool space. I wish i could calmmyself and being some of these cool industries met. Medtech is such a coolspace to be in right now, a hundred million and pipe line. You need somepeople to close that you need to some people to keep keep growing, thatthat's crazy. Go go check out my my quick possible. That's it an thank youso much for for hopping on. That was a lot of fun and for all those listenersthat joined us. I hope you found that valuable. I know i did and we'll seenext time. This was another episode of the sales engagement podcast to helpthis get in front of more eyes and ears. Please leave us a shining five starreview join us at sales engagement com for new episodes, resources in the bookon sales engagement to get the most out of your sales engagement strategy, makesure to check out out reached out io the leading sales engagement platform,see you on the next episode t.

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