The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 9 months ago

The Perception of Value vs. Actual Value

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

“Lead with value,” says every single person on LinkedIn. But, well, we all value different things. Let’s take a step back and think about what is actually valuable to the person we’re speaking to.

In this episode, I interview Mike Quiggins, Managing Partner at Eraclides Gelman, about the three aspects of creating value in go-to-market messaging.

In this episode we discuss:

  • How much does the other person care about your topic?
  • How open are they about the topic (willing to consider other views)?
  • How strong-willed are they?
  • The effectiveness of a simple message

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

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Welcome to the sales engagement podcast. This podcast is brought you by outreach, the leading sales engagement platform, and they just launched outreach on outreach, the place to learn how outreach well does outreach? Learn how the team follows up with every lead in record time after virtual events and turns them into revenue. You can also see how outreach runs account based plays, manages reps and so much more using their own sales engagement platform. Everything is backed by data pulled from outreach processes and customer base. When you're done, you'll be able to do it as good as they do. Had to outreach. Do Io on outreach to see what they have going on. Now let's get into today's episode. Hello and welcome back everyone to the sales engagement podcast. Thank you, as always, for lending US your ear drums for the next twenty thirty minutes or so. It's going to be a fun discussion. I'm joined by Mike Quig Mike, Welcome to show man. Thank you, happy to be here, sited to to have you and for those listeners that are that are joining us, we're going to be talking about something that I think is a super interesting topic. We're going to talking about this perception of value. All right, and everywhere you go on Linkedin and whatever and says lead with value, lead with value. That's what you got to do. That's the the golden key to everything, is lead with value. But I think value is is kind of in the eyes of the beholder, a little bit right, like we all value different things and so sometimes we have to step back and think about what actually is valuable to the person on the end, the other end, and maybe redefine that, because I think it's it changes over time too. But that's what we want to get to before we do wrestle with that topic, which I know it is going to be super interesting. Let's hear the backstory. What's the Superhero Origin Story of Mike? Sure? So, for context my Quig, I'm the VP of a couple of different things here at let's get checked, including enterprise marketing. So all things, all things be to be go to market focused inside sales and partnerships and alliances. So just a few responsibilities that I carry here. But my major focus throughout the entirety of my career, which has been spent in the health text bace is, is finding and adapting strategies to better connect in a value based way are solutions to people's ultimate problems and I think you know it's something that you mentioned, is that, you know, value is in the eye of the beholder, and so everything needs to be treated in a very like situational manner, but also the effectiveness of certain strategies and the data being used and the ration now behind what works and what doesn't requires a constant rethinking of whether or not those approaches work. So I've been working here with let's get checked for the past six months on developing a pretty robust go to market strategy. For context, we, you know, we're at the one of the leaders and at home help, diagnostics and tell a health really matching up with the consumer demands that have shifted due to covid with the majority of people. In fact, I think it's an excess of seventy five percent of people looking to or prioritizing access to care over in person care, and so it's a new world in healthcare and therefore adding value in a new world that's hyper complex and new to a lot of buyers is an interesting challenge to figure out. So that's me in a nutshell, and what I'm what I'm working on today. That's awesome...

...and what an interesting time to toint a company six months ago. Let's quickly talk about if you like. A lot of people can kind of sympathize with this. How is on boarding and getting up to speed in all remote during a pandemic? I think for a lot of Health Tech Organization Sans, they've embraced a sort of hybrid model of being able to work and flexing what would have currently been an all in office type workforce setting to be more remote or Nimble, as you know, depending on where the talent lies, which I think is really good, because there's a heck of a lot of great talent out there that maybe want to work from Florida on the beach or in Montana and the wilderness, and so it's been an easy transition for me because I know the space, I'm used to working remote, but ultimately it's something that a category and healthcare that I know very well and I'm very passionate about. So, while it's always daunting to make a move in the middle of a global pandemic that no one ever foresaw, I think it's brought a lot of opportunity, especially in the health text space because of the the different dynamics and consumer demands and changes in workforce strategy. There's a lot of really talented people making moves through this and, as you hopefully you know, knock on wood as we come to the tail end of this with the progress of vaccines and such. But I am I am not alone in this experience of transitioning during during covid and it's a it's been a exciting, fun and maybe a little bit overwhelming, but in all the best ways possible. So yeah, I feel like it's just the way things are now. I don't think we're going back. I think that's the you know what's going to happen moving forward. Okay, so let's bring it back a little bit to this this topic, and I guess it's start with here's something that I think it's confused a lot and the old thoughts of like value, for me anyway, in my world, was like, let's send a case study that we did with the customer, and that's my touch of value. That's what that's my first touch email and it's got value because I hyper linked to case study to it. Boom, checked the add value box. Let's send it now we're good to go. Yeah, that doesn't help me as the potential prospect. Maybe I don't even know you yet. Why do I want to know about this case study's not contextual my day. You'd be my industry. Even if it's my industry, I round my operation different. What are some of those things that you think people think are valuable that we might be confusing with things we think are valuable, not our customers and prospects, sir. So I might go off on just a little bit of a tangent on this, but feel free to stop me at any time. So the way that I think through this is is obviously to a point that you made. Creating that you isn't easy. It's hyper necessary, but it isn't easy because advances and access through technology have exploded in the past couple of decades. So if you take a look at I mean these are decade old studies, but I think it gives good enough context. In Two Thousand and eleven, individuals were consuming five times the information per day compared to a quarter century earlier. So the prospects that were talking to or trying to access already have a tremendous amount of access to information. On their own right, and so you have to have insight on that buyer...

...or target and have an understanding of whether or not they even have a problem that they want to or should be wanting to solve for but the typical approach that you had alluded to is this bombardment of you know, I get a hundred of these emails of a day like did you know that we can ten x your current pipeline, and that those messages are often ignored because really, psychologically, whether we know it as marketers, are not, when you are sending those types of messages that are rather ill informed but well intended, you're actually attacking the current position that your audience member your address see maybe having, because or you're speaking to them about something that they completely don't even care about and you don't know their problem, and a lot of marketers never even ask what their problem is. So I think what is important for marketers or anybody involved in growth to consider when you're forming value based marketing is rethinking or recognizing that were frequently taking in adversarial approach in the fact that we're telling them our targets something, that they need to do better or that their way is wrong. Instead of really opening their minds to new considerations. I think it needs to be more collaborative. We need to show more curiosity and kind of think more like scientists, to be honestly. You know, marketing and demand generation is like a dance, I would say, and the like, mapping out a series of different dance steps to identify common ground and you have to think through how you establish that common ground and ask what they actually care about. So when I break it down into sort of three different things that I think about in the curation, or at least in the ideation process, of go to market material or go to market messaging. And I'm going to completely oversimplify it because we have thirty minutes and not thirty hours to talk about it, but maybe a future episode. But I look at this as as and people fall into really three categories or attitudes or beliefs, and it's really important to recognize where the people who you're speaking to stand so that you can drive the value that it would be perceived valuable to that person. So one is how much they care about the particular topic that that you're wanting to reach them on, how open they are on the topic as it relates to like their willingness to consider different options, etc. And then how strong willed they are. And so when we message out, many of US fall into being logic bullies, to to kind of put it in a the negative connotation. But I mean it always feels good to know a lot and that about a lot of different facts, right, and I think that facts help drive home a point. And then, you know, you kind of sit there logically assuming that humans act rationally all the time and you're like, well, the facts are the freaking facts, but people are behaviorally and psychologically predictably irrational, right. A nerdy example that a lot of people, I think, have familiarity with is when we're selling to somebody. People are buyers or US as individuals make decisions every day that tend to value immediate rewards over future benefits, where you know, if I give a silly example, I'm not a salad lover, I'll put that out there. But if I were to say, like you put a hamburger in front of me or a salad in front of me and...

I know that the sound gives me more long term benefits, but that Burger is so Dar and tasty, like I'm going for that right. And so study show that the more the topic matters to a person, that the quality and the quantity of the reasons and the messages that were sending out matter more to them. When they're more skeptical in nature as a buyer, the more reasons are arguments that we make actually tend to backfire as they feel as though they're being sold to. And so some of the most effective marketing has been rooted in like one simple question or simple message. I think an example, and this is kind of like off the top of my head, I know it's something that I've read in the past six months, but it was around a major university that has a, you know, a huge basketball following with, you know, diehard fans, but there was always, you know, about thirty percent of the seats unfilled in the stadium. They tried two different tests from a messaging perspective of where one of the emails that went out to season ticket holders was around or had players on the team and coaches telling people how important home court advantage is and, you know, how they need to be there, which ch had no effect on attendance. The other message was to season ticket holders, again just asking if they were going to go to the game and that drove about ten percent higher attendance than the other message, which is statistically significant. But the thing to think about in that is when you're giving people choice instead of something to think about and not telling them what's better or what to do or what they need to do, you're putting them in a position to rethink a current stance and that opens up a dialog into being able to better understand what where their goals are, where their challenges are, etc. So I articulated, yeah, you articulated that. That great. I had a few lightbulb moments as you were you were talking. So there's this I feel like a lot of us still fall in this I love this term logic bullies. We fall in that right we have our Roli impact report that we're sending out and it's all this logical facts and data and we're like, how could this not blow your mind, like this is this is amazing and because that, that is what you perceive as valuable, and what you're going to saying is, because that's so add add the serial. The real value comes from when you spark a seed or plant a seat. That helps them do their own reflection on a problem and identify it themselves can be a much more effective approach, which makes complete sense, you think, if you're trying to give your friend some advice, you're not going to you're not gonna go out there. Hey, did you need to get a new barber? You'RE gonna probably, you know, maybe class from seats as like hat, check that here cut you just got or something. Sure, now you know. So that's that's interesting, really well well put. Okay, so one thing I wanted to touch on there. So you said one of the buckets is like how much do they care about this, this problem? I think that's that's huge and that would be kind of, in my eyes, part of like what your ICP is, your ideal customer? All the people you're going after should care about this problem. How do you identify that? As a marketer? That's a difficult thing to do. Sure, absolutely, and it that's a great question, I think it I could dissect that into...

...a few different thoughts depending on where you are and sort of like your stage of the company that you're a part of, because brand recognition matters. Obviously. If you're a very prominent name, you're inherently going to have more people who know exactly what you do and what you would solve for them. So that's a totally different scenario than like the world that I've been living in and sort of like a health text startup or even that the more mature startup phases. So one I think about using the right tools, I understand wholeheartedly, especially in the startup space, which isn't like the focus necessarily of our conversation today from a company demographic perspective. But I've seen this at large companies and I've seen them at startups, where there's a reluctancy to want to invest in the right types of data insight tools to help you make more informed decisions. And so I think about tools like an outreach. I think about tools like a zoom INFO that have functionality that helps you understand whether or not your target market is even searching or cares about the solution that you're offering. So if you can find a solution that allows you to understand buy or intent, you know where there's functionality out there, or that can look at Ip addresses for different companies to see if it deviates by three standards on a particular topic, that could be something that you solve for, and so that obviously is a good indicator that that's somebody who may be interested in your your messaging or what you have to to solve for it from in a solution. Another thing to and this depends again where you sit in terms of brand recognition and market share. But you know, it's not all about emails. We face actually a really, really interesting challenge today with emails, because we've all been sitting at home for but what like sixteen months now, it seems. A last business trip I took was march seventh from Atlanta back home to Chicago, and like that's a that's a date that sticks in my mind. It's a less time I do anything in person businesswise, and so the dynamics of email have shifted dramatically where we're in date, inundated with messages all day, every day right. So I look at my email address right now, it's like if I've got ninety five of them, which it's probably ten times that, but like ninety percent of them are external emails, like blindly emailing me on things that I should definitely buy, and so those can get lost in the shuffle. So I think from a marketing perspective, you want to look at. Where can you get involved via, you know, depending on the the industry or vertical that you play in, like how can you get involved in thought leadership discussions? How can you collaborate with other organizations in a non sales way that you can provide thought leadership around the topic that you have a solution for without selling it, because then you're generating audiences that are actively engaging and or interested in the topic that your business works within, and you can then start to use those targets to start dialogs with that are now actively engaged in aware of what you do, and so it's more of that hyper focused, targeted type...

...marketing verse. So it's like it's quality over quantity in my opinion, and so that those are a couple of things that I think about. How you identify and ultimately are able to get in touch and start those meaningful conversations, not just cold outreach via email. Yeah, super important to do on the channel, and I love this idea, one we preach all the time is I always said, and even when I was a seller back and back in the day, it's like just you actually want to teach the person how to fix their problem without whatever solution you have and then at the end you're like hey, here you go, you can this is how you can fix it. You can do it all like this. By the way, we have a product or service that can make all of that much easier. But I've given you everything you need to like go and try and figure it out, you know. Yeah, and I think that's that's kind of the future of where we're headed with like highly educational content. So I love that. This is one of those conversations that I get frustrated that we only have thirty minutes because I can keep picking your brain. You're you're a pro and you know a lot on this this topic. But for the sake of time, what are three things? If people forget everything we talked about in this what are three things that you'd want people to take with them from this conversation, or even just something you want to plant in in there? Sure, so let's see if I can come up with with three or two really long winded one. So, so one would be the due diligence portion of that, and I would say invest in tools that help both you gain a better understanding of your target markets interests, but also helps to optimize the efficiencies and the automation of how you can reach out to your intended population. That insight is invaluable. Right it's if you don't know what they care about, then you're you're taken a shot in the dark or throwing mud at the wall to see what sticks, and it's well worth the investment. You know, we use outreach as an example and in the first quarter of us being really sophisticated with our sequences and any of the rules based processes we've put in place with that. Just by having that better understanding and those efficiencies in place, we've got we've generated, you know, a hundred million plus dollars and top of funnel pipeline that didn't exist before. But that's a combination of using real data driven insights as well as the right tools. They're worth investing in. To would be you get a lot of rejection emails, right or responses from people, whether you're in person or whether you are communicating via email. I've seen recent research by some consulting firms which I will not name, but it's all about benefit communication and how do we position differently to be able to nudge people towards making a different behavior? But they never stop and ask the question of the individual, like what would change your mind, you know, to assess, to assess where that buyers at in those sort of three buckets that I talked about earlier. So I tap into my what my two and a half year old son does to me every day all day, which is asked why to everything right. And so it's asking, when you get pushed back, understanding,...

...like what would ask for asking the question what would change your mind? You know, if it's different data, if it's a case study, if it's what, at whatever they need and help them to get to a point of rethinking their current position. You were not always going to it's not always going to result in a win for you, but if you're able to get them to rethink, that's the first step in getting, you know, making progress with that particular prospect. And three is, you know, this is broad. It's on top of asking that question that I just mentioned, like what would change your mind, it's asking questions about, or getting their perspective on, some of the challenges that you think you can solve for but getting them to open up and start a dialog ver versus the blind. We help everybody increase pipeline by ten acts. When you go into it in a conversational manner, with asking questions and instead of delivering solution after solution, you tend to see higher increases, not just an open rates, but dramatically increased response rates. And that's where you can start the dialog, be become that trusted advisor and ultimately lead down the path towards more deals that add value for all all parties that are participating in the conversation, because at the end of the day, that's what everybody wants. Nobody wants to be sold to. You want a solution and do well by doing good. So those are you, guys, my three things I'd I'd anchor on. That was some solid gold, my friend. Thank you for for sharing. Incredibly knowledgeable leader, Mighty. You hire and you have any open rolls and marketing, sales, anything shutting up to the to the listener? Yes, yes, absolutely so. You know, might quid on Linkedin find me and feel free to direct passage me. I am hiring for various marketing roles inside sales rolls, sales manager roles. If there's anything growth related, Ping me because because I'm hiring for it, we have a massive amount of demand from the market and we are looking for highly skilled storytellers, thought leaders, creative writers and and selling pros to help us in the continued growth of what we're doing here and making people healthier and having them live happier lives. So I love it. I love it. Such a cool, cool space. I wish I could clone myself and be in some of these cool industries. Met Medtech is such a cool space to be in right now. Hundred million and pipeline. You need some people to close that. You need to some people to keep keep growing that. That's crazy. Go, go check out my quick passome. That's a man. Thank you so much for hopping on. That was a lot of fun and for all those listeners that joined us. I hope you found that valuable, I know I did, and that we'll see you next time. This was another episode of the sales engagement podcast. To help this get in front of more eyes and ears, please leave us a shining five star review. Join US at sales engagementcom for new episodes. Resources in the book on sales engagement to get the most out of your sales engagement strategy. Make sure to check out outreached out ioh, the leading sales engagement platform. See you on the next episode.

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