The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

How to Hire People You Trust w/ Mark Stock


If you could work with anyone you wanted, you’d pick people you trust. That’s a no-brainer.

Today on Sales Engagement, I’m talking to Mark Stock, Head of Inside Sales at Accela, about the hiring and job hunting in the tiny tech sales bubble.

What we talked about:

  • What hiring managers look for in a sales rep
  • Advice for navigating politics & networking
  • How to maintain relationships with an eye for rehiring

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast.This podcast is brought to you by outreach, the leading sales engagement platform helping companies, sellers and customer success engage with buyers and customers in the modern salesera. Check out sales engagementcom for new episodes, resources and the book onsales engagement, available on Amazon and Barnes and noble or wherever books are sold. Now let's get into today's episode. Hello and welcome back to the salesengagement podcast. You've got Scott Barker here and thank you so much for lendingus your ear drums for the next thirty minutes. This going to be afun discussion. I love this topic we're talking about and I'm talking to markstock mark. Welcome to the show, Scott. Thanks so much. Yeah, it's exciting, you know, exciting to talk sales, sales engagement,anything related to the industry I've been in for twenty five years and you know, it's it's still exciting to me. So it's cool. I'm glad you'reI'm glad we connected me to me to and so what I want to talkabout. Spend the majority of the time talking about, which I think isis kind of fascinating is this idea of how do we breed loyalty within ourbusiness relationships and how do we deal with you know, I'm going to callit cross company polock ticks. will go into you know what I mean byby all of that. But before we get there, twenty five years salescareer. You've had a career. You know. I'm looking at your linkedinright now. You've got a career that many would aspire to have, youknow, who are potentially just starting out middle of their career. How didthis all happen? What's this superhero origin story of Mark Stock? Well,you know, it's it's funny because I was talking to long time ago.I did a couple things with Andrews and Horowitz portfolio companies. So I workedfor three separate portfolio companies every time. But so it's probably six, sevenyears ago. It's talking to Ben Horowitz, who wrote the book, you know, the hard thing about hard things, and you know he's so such anhonest, candid guy and he's like, you know, some of it's luckand timing and right decisions, you know, and for me I wouldsay it is at least fifty percent luck. And because of one thing, Iseem to have the knack to place myself kind of in these cutting technologytype of field. That was not my goal. I coming out of collegewith a marketing business degree. Wasn't my goal. It was just go dosales because I knew I love sales. I'd done that. My father wasa seller at IBM and the S and, you know, he was a techguy and I just became a tech guy in New York. But Ididn't have, you know, the thought I'm going to go cutting edge.And this is this is the funny thing.

Back in she's ninety two or whateverI got out of college, the cutting edge thing was cellular phones.Went from that brick phone that everybody knows, that giant motor Rolla that literally wasas heavy as a brick, to these little flip Motorola razor things.So that's what I sold that I you know, created deals all across Bostonand then I, you know, move back to New York City, whichis where I'm from. But you know, the technology there when I moved backto New York City was, you know, it was really I wasin the advertising field and it was, you know, in the S we'restarting to tradition, transition from this, you know, advertising revenue model withTV and radio and print to Internet. So I happen to get into Internet, you know, AD sales with Microsoft and then, you know, justright on the cutting edge and six hundred and ninety seven right, A.Well, it just come out. We're, you know, won't way back right. I don't even know. A lot of people don't even know whatAOL is anymore. And then I moved with that, you know, gotinto working with Microsoft. So I worked directly for Microsoft, trained out inRedmond, work there in New York and then they transfer me out to thebay area in the late S, which is where it all was. Allhappened in a tech explosion in the late s two thousand, two thousand andone. And then, you know, met a girl, Oh, shelived in Utah. HAPPENING TO I move to Utah, and that's right when, you know, got hired by Josh James of Amnature, you know,is employee twenty five at Anatur and grew with him, stayed with him forthirteen years. Because I think we want to talk some about that, whichis cross culture at companies and the politics of staying involved and engaged and youknow, so I found somebody which, between Josh and Chris Harrington, whotrusted in me and I stayed with those guys across three companies for thirteen,fourteen years and then, you know, struck out on my own doing someother things. So you know, it's been a fun ride. But there'scertainly just like in Silicone Valley, there's certainly and in New York, youknow, I think it's still kind of alley in New York. I gotthe opportunity to go back there and work there for nine months and and youknow, community New York every week about a couple years ago. But siliconslope, same idea. It's a it's a tech bubbles that. Sure,it's always changing, but you're it's small enough you're always going to know peopleand you're always going to interact with those same people and makes you know,I think because I've been on the kind of the tip of the spear,the like front edge of demand generation teams, inside sales teams, moving to closingteams. I work with the I think some of the folks that arejust starting out in their career or three years into their career or five yearsinto the career are but not twenty, not typically twenty, you know,so or fifteen. So I you know, I see that that small bubble isreally important to take care of and to kind of nurture. And Iwould say, you know, if you're being your best self and nurturing yourcareer and your relationships internally at work,...

...that's great. And if you,you know, have a passionate moment and you do something you shouldn't have doneat work or you know, you burn a bridge, I've seen people doit and I try to you know, I try to help people, Idon't know, think rationally or think career minded over the long term. Butyou know, that's certainly been fun to see the evolution of that in myown self and also in all the folks I've hired. Probably, I thinkI've counted it, three hundred and fifty sales reps here in Utah, betweenyou know, two thousand and one and today. So Bow, twenty yearsright, and nineteen years. Wow, wow, wow, incredible, incrediblerun. I gotta quickly take a step back and, you know, dissectthat for a second. Have you ever stopped them thought? Because sure luckis always going to play a component. I think there's a great quote ifsomeone says if a successful person doesn't attribute something to let there full of Shit, or something like that. It's a great quote. So that's that's afactor to take into acount. Yet there's also no denying that that you werealways in the right place and the right time and you have to choose theright place. You need to choose the right company. So that's good decisionmaking. How were you able to see these, these trends? Where yousurrounding yourself with the right people? Did you do a lot of extensive research? Yourself instincts for this kind of thing? What do you attribute it to?You know, it's a great question. I think I would love to say, look, it's my instincts all the time, but that's not true, because I made a couple of, you know, decisions that weren't myou know, wasn't the exact right tech or not the exact right market shareor you know. I think if you for me, it was surround yourselfwith people that you believe have that and the only way you can do thatbecause you know people that are either smart or forward thinking or visionary, andI would include Josh Shames in that mix. I would also include see io,I work for now. I would include, you know, guys likeBen Horowitz and Elon Musk in those scenarios. But to get them as your mentoror as a part of your group, you need to be persistent, focused, driven, good at your craft or willing to put in a lotof time to get good at your craft. And you know, I've had,you know, both employees and bosses that you know, where I'm like, Hey, you're going to be really good at this if you put inthe time and dedication, and if I see that, I'm going to helpyou more. And I think that's how you get closer to the individuals thatI think will make your career a success. And so part of it, that'show I did it right is okay, let you know, let's wow theseguys from Microsoft. They're doing some cool stuff. Let me go figureout if I how can I get to know Steve Balmber know the question wasno, they're like two or three levels...

...below Steve that I reported to,but those people were great. Guy Named Bob Kusick way back when, youknow, same thing with you know. So what what drove me to getgood at that, I think, is moving from a big company like Microsoftto a startup like you know, twenty five people amnature, and then thatchanges your growth trajectory and I think in that there's some you know, somethings you need to do, because going to a startup like that you're expectedto do a whole slew of things that maybe don't fit under this one roledescription, and I love that. I like that quite a bit. Andas things evolved, you also need to change with how the company's evolving,and that's hard to do and it's hard to do for almost everyone. Youknow, again, to quote the hard thing about hard things. I meanthere's a time when, you know corwitz would just he's like, I've justgot to change the leadership because these people have brought me x amount of distanceand they can't bring me any farther. So I promoted them up to andpass their their capability level, and that's okay. And so now what Ineed to do. I need to refresh and I've been in divisions where they'verefreshed and I've been I've done that to divisions and so I get it rightand doing that in a long career, either gracefully or wisely without burning bridges, is a really you know, it's a it's an art form or it'sa skill. Right, yeah, certainly, certainly. And to go to yourpoint about, you know, when you do get a chance to bein a room with the Josh James is of the world or some of thesethese people that are that could potentially be incredible mentors for you, I think, you know, it's showing the the hard work, it's showing that you'reserious for your craft and also, just like any chance you get, tryingto provide value the other way right. It's not just a one, oneway, you know, relationship like, I think the ideal mentorships, youknow, I've had in my life and you know I see are it.It almost comes to this point where it's like, you know, you're bothlearning so much from each other because you have a new a new Lens.Right, you might you might be, you're still more in the the trenches, so to speak, maybe, and you can give them information that maybethey can't access them themselves quite as easily as they they used to. Itis interesting and you know, for me, a guy that's, you know,now been doing this two thousand and twenty five years. Right, Ican learn a lot from somebody that I would go oh, that's a that'sa kid. I hired a twenty four year old. But those people havea drive in a condition. I've hired them specifically for their intellect and theirdrive and there, you know, sales capabilities, and so I'm planning tolearn from them as well and I think... would be a mistake for eitherof us in that relationship to be complacent. And there is that risk because in, you know, companies, people say, well, I'm just I'man account executive role, I only do this one thing, and I'm ina manager of sales role or VP of sales role, I just do this. Well, know, you can get out of your comfort zone and youcan sell and you can and in startups that's you have to do that.And in kind of a bigger, bigger corporate cultures, I think it's it'swise to assess and understand what does this role, what is expected of thisrole and what are the greats do in this role, because sometimes expanding beyondthat role gets you into maybe not trouble but, like you know, eitheryou've overcommitted or your politically in hot water or your stepping on somebody's toes because, you know, the marketing and sales rolls they don't interact in this companyand let's keep them separate. Or in the startup company they have to interact, and so you have to be in each other's business all the time andthat's a great thing. Right. So I think for anyone in their career, and even me at this point, you have to be cognizant of howare the people in this role now succeeding at that current role? How canI improve upon that? But also what's the landscape? My peers, myexecutives around me? What is that landscape and go meet those expectations and thenexceed expectations without, you know, without stepping on toes or without, Iwould say, creating I don't know, maybe you know you you don't wantto do is create kind of rumblings of Oh, why is that person inmy business? That kind of stuff. So and I, you know,I've seen that many, many times. I've been that person once or twicewhere I'm, you know, really have frustrated somebody because I am want tocollaborate so deeply and I'm passionate about it and I merge the two kind ofthese two disciplines and typically a sales and marketing and you you now, youknow, coopted everybody's time. and Are you getting into the right direction?Is that the direction the corporation wants to go? Is that the direction youneed to go for this campaign or the sales cycle of this product life?So those, I think, are political learnings that you know. If youjust follow, you know, three rules, then it really helps you sorted out. which is number one. Be Kind, but do it honestly,kind and honest, and you know the radical candor book. I've read it. I agree with it. I think that you can do it in anicer way. So it's really you know, that that honesty and kindness at thesame time, which is and then, with your peers, with your executives, with your employees, check in often and restate your goals often tomake sure that they're lined up. And...

...the third thing is with every hurdleor criticism or kind of coaching moment that you are bringing to appear or toan employee, you also need to bring that with a glowing positivity, somethinggreat that they've also achieved with you, for you, for the company,and those things will help you build the bridges instead of pulling down. SoI you know, excellent advice. Yeah, that's great. So number one,kind and honest all the time. You know, mix in radical canor be tactful with it. I check in often. Communication now, especiallywith with covid more more important than ever. Better. We're all, yeah,fully digital. And when you do highlight those coaching moments, and thisis a good reminder for me. I wouldn't say I'm overly critical, butyou know, there's certainly I'm quick to and I think we're hardwired to quickto see the mistakes. Right it's like, oh, hey, we can dothis better, and it's just me again being honest, but it cancome across like, you know, always nitpicking, nitpicking at things. Soit's a great reminder of Hey, have the coachable moment and also highlight thepositive and the great stuff that that people are doing. I think that's that'sgreat. Okay, I have a question, which is you mentioned a few momentsand a few mistakes, blips that you've had in your career. Soyou can kind of see this red thread of, you know, navigating politicsreally well, keeping those relationships, those doors open. You know, peoplecome back for to work with you and under you, which is amazing.Going back to those moments of mistakes, blips in judgment, so to speak, if you were to be able to go back in time and speak directlyto you at that age when you're just about to to enter these scenarios thatmaybe weren't weren't the best way to handle things, what advice would you givemark going into those meetings? Oh Wow, well, that's a good one.So I would say I've got passion for what I love. Thankfully,I love my job. I love what I do, have loved it sinceI started it. But I would say use that passion objectively and step outsideyourself for a moment and see if you could sit on the other side andwhether that be let me sit on my rep side that I'm managing, orlet me sit on my chief revenue officers side, and or let me siton marketing side or the products and services the delivery side of the software we'vejust sold, and let me see what they're dealing with and be really alittle more calculated about how passionate I am about this problem and is that priorityone for the goal of this organization.

You know, I feel like it'syou know, if you've seen that movie Avatar, it's the network of trees, right, and it's a living growing organism and a wise connected to allof it. We as humans are so conditioned to be what. How amI going to go make my goal? That is important for my quota andmy you know, whatever it is, my compensation and to be a success. But if we could do that with all of those pieces. So Iwould just say, you know, be passionate, can retain the the passionateside as well as look for other viewpoints, and the great leaders do that really, really well and and others don't. So yeah, that's a great agreat answer, and I like the comparison to to have its are it'sso true, right. It's like it's funneling the passion, not not for, you know, just your personal goals and objectives. Know that those personalgoals and objectives are part of a much bigger thing within your company, withinoutside of your company. You know that all reverberates through the entire industry,which is it is very interesting when you when you can look back and havethat perspective and when you're known for being someone like that, then you know, this is when you breathe that that intense loyalty, because you know,people know that you're acting for the collective and not just for yourself. Sothat's that's great advice. The other thing I want to bring up, becausethis is a perfect example, when you take that thinking which which you have, what can happen. And you shared a cool story before we started recordingthis about getting a chance to work with someone that you worked with. Howlong ago was it? Oh, yeah, so it's an interesting I mean theso, I think it was New York City, Ninety. How isdone with the cellular business and I had gotten into a boutique tax firm andwe sold boutique tax services to big company, so value out of tax reclaim andand auditing and all kinds of stuff. So he was, you know,a manager of accounts there and had been a friend prior, but hehad started there and so then I came in for an interview got a job. They're doing account executive work and then so we were selling together and wewould, you know, meet up on the street and walk to Walk Twentyblocks down to fifty five street and sixth avenue. That's where we're worked andyou know, that was exciting. It was a great time. It wasyou know, we were young in our careers. A lot of great peoplecame and went into that office. I think I stayed. I stayed therefor two and a half years and then went enjoined Microsoft. He stayed therefor twenty years, so long term right, and did great things and, youknow, moved up and and really...

...become the VP of their customer successunit. And you know, just so happened he lives in the bay areanow and with a family and just so happened I had a position and Iwas thinking about who do I know that can be a best account management accountmanagement executive, and I was thinking through people and his name just came tome and I, you know, called them and it just so happens thatwe're working together again and you know, one of those is that trust factorthat we had built. We're going together as colleagues prior and you know,it's interesting. I am working currently. I have a small team, Ilike, a team of Eight, and five of the eight have worked withme before. Wow, so it was it's pretty cool. And and thenone was already here and then I hired one or two that I didn't know, but, you know, went through a normal hiring process. I'm sothat was kind of interesting because I think I would have had eight of Eight. If I could get eight of eight that worked with me before, that'swhat I would have done, and the reason for that is I work withthese great people. They said out I know this person, I trust thisperson, I know. I mean my whole thing is if I know yourwork ethic, you're driving your capabilities, I'm way ahead and if I cantrust that, if there's if you're somebody that I know and trust, Ican hire you. Yet yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, it thatthat trust component can just accelerate things on like just like day one.You're hitting the ground running because that the trust is is there. That's cool. Okay, last last kind of question and then we'll sort of wrap upwith some kind of key points that we want to reiterate, just like reallytactically, like I think about this in my own own life, like Itotally subscribed that. You have never burned bridges. You know all of that. At least five of the eight people. Do You keep in touch with them? Are you like sending them emails, like, are you shooting them anote on Linkedin on their birth day, if you have like a personal see. I am like, how are you managing all this or is itjust such a strong bond that it kind of transcends time and space? That'sa great question. Well, I mean some of them it's like, wow, we go, you know, two years without chatting, but we hiteach other up by text or on Linkedin. Oh Hey, hey, tell methe best you know, K Monitor for gaming. Okay, that textthe guy. That is a year and a half ago. Oh, hereit is. Okay, cool, you're the guy that I think of whenI think of that. So it's definitely linkedin. It's it's also the forus, this silicon slopes community. We all keep it, keep an eyeon each other, not completely, but then if we work together, andin this case, look, a lot of us had what I would calland a we all call an amazing run with Omnature, amnature going public inO six, selling to odobe and no nine adobe, taking that business unitfrom five hundred million to one point eight...

...billion in the last, you know, eight years. It's a that tech community there is, you know.So those are people we know and trust for the most part, and youknow, we're even the entire silicon slopes community is a small and growing fastcommunity. So that's number one, is how to Cotter, keep in touch, shirts linkedin. Sure, it's you know, we're in this bubble.But number two is everything's timing. So if I need to hire a people, I'll put a post out that says hey, I'm hiring a couple peopleand look me up. But it's timing. And so I'm of the thought thatI will make a phone call to somebody and just chat about things.But if they're working for and you know, you know sixty percent of the companieshere are either run by or the VP of sales is a friend ofmine. Or maybe that's set of the companies, but you know I knowsomebody in there, and so pulling themm from, you know, a jobwhere they're producing for this company and putting them into my slot is a placewhere you could burn a bridge right. Yeah, yeah, you almost always. The way I try to do that is just say, look, it'stiming. Maybe the Rep just had their territory change that they weren't happy withit. Maybe the maybe they were have been looking anyway. Maybe the REPand that boss just didn't seem to Mesh. You know, I had a bunchof those where they were looking, I needed somebody, I set thepost, I set it and forget it right and then if they contact meand say hey, look, the timing is in right, I was lookinganyway, you know. And I have had these lunch meetings with CEOS andVP's of sales where they will dude, I got to meet you for launchery, stealing all my people, and I've had that meeting where they you know, or asking me. You're calling me to ask that it's a well,who is it? Oh, it's this guy, this guy or girl.Ah, okay, well, she was. You know. What she told meis she was, you know, kind of ready to change her careeroptions and I seem to be like a good outlet for that and we workget great together and, you know, I don't know if she was hyped, you know, your best performer or your number three, but it seemedlike that wasn't going to continue. And so I'm probably helping you and I'mhelping myself. Yeah, you know, and I think as long as you'renot actively recruiting, you know, ten people from somebody's company that you know, you know if post it, set it and forget it and they cometo you, that's fine, and actually that you know, we still maintainthose friendships at all the piece of sales and I know that we all kindof work in that similar fashion. And I think to cap it off,then you need to go back to the initially when we started out. Youknow, are you treating your peers, your reps, the executives in thecompany, with honesty, directness? Are you checking in often and do youhandle every hurdle and challenge with the same...

...level of glowing positive review as you'reworking with them? And when you do that, they want to come workfor you again. If you're their champion for them at the company, theywill come back and work for you at any other company. I think that'syou know, the reason that this works is so because you build them onto trust. And if I can trust you as my sales rapper, asa manager that I'm going to hire or as a director or VP, andyou can trust me that I will, you know, have your best distressat heart while while enabling the company to succeed at a high, high level, and then you know, it's pretty good match. Totally. Yeah,great, great, insight there and I'm going to sneak in one more question. I guess I lied. So I as you're talking that I agree witheverything you're saying there. But perhaps there some listeners of this podcast are like, okay, well, I'm not lucky enough to be in the tech bubbleright now and you know there's of course, problems with diversity and all sorts ofthings that we do have a problem with with in Tech. If youcould speak to those, those people who are maybe like, Oh, like, I think if I just could, could get a shot, I wouldbuild that trust, I would bring that candor, I would I would doall these things we're talking about, but I need that that shot speaking tothose folks. What would your advice be? It's almost like you just threw thatsoftball out there because, quite honestly, in the last two weeks as meetingwith a girl, that a woman, that's she's probably done a lot ofthings in her career. She tended some college, she's going to goback to that. She's, you know, was going to be a nurse,she was an emt, done a ton of different things and decided overthe last year I'm getting into sales. This silicon slopes is the place whereI need to be in sales. You know, she's got and she didn'tknow how to do it, and I said, okay, here's the deal, because let's look at your resume, let's work on that together, let'syou know, I'll give you some time. We met, met for lunch andI said to her, what have you been doing that makes you thinkthat you're want a career in sales, and are you ready to start kindof at the bottom tier, right? I mean you've got, you know, she did amt work and she did, you know, assistant nurse or,you know, worked at a hospital and then also was going for herdegree in nursing and then said, you know, I don't know, letme see this and that now is working at a job at a, youknow, some sort of real estate lending company, and she's always said toherself over the last year or so, I'm going, I'm preparing, I'mgetting myself ready to go into this career and tech or sales it just don'tknow how to do it. And so I think the first is listen topodcast like this and find a mentor, right number one. And then numbertwo is, if you can get that...

...person to spend some time with youto to, you know, tailor your resume, start thinking like a salesperson. Or how does the hiring manager think? Where do I want to work?Where are the places that I would love to work but are outside ofmy reach right now? Okay, let me and I couldn't explain that.Which is, you know, can you go get a jot without any techor tech sales experience or CS experience? Can you go get a job atadobe or Microsoft or Google? Or No? Okay, what's the next step downfrom that? Can you go get a job at an advertising firm thatselling online advertising? Yeah, probably. Can you go get a job at, you know, a smaller tech startup that just needs an employee and they'regoing to train you to be an account manager or make phone calls to theiraccount base or or actually sell and try to find new clients? Yeah,you could probably do that on a smaller scale. Your ultimate goal is togo work for Google, or your ultimate goal is a go work for facebook. Let's start back a few tears. And so I look at it likethe rings on a Bulls eyewrite. If your bulls eye is you want togo work for twitter or your bulls eye is. You want to go workfor whatever that you know, the next cutting edge thing is, or thegiant company. Well, go to the outer rims of those bulls eyes.When you start shooting a bow and Arrow, you're not going to hit the bullseye every time you got to you got you're going to miss around theedges. You can get a lot of great experience there around the edges,and that's you know, I look at it like you know, if Ididn't come from an MBA, from wharton or Stanford, which I did not, where am I going to start? Around the edges? And I startedin a cutting edge technology, cellular, and move to and add sales techtechnology, Microsoft and move to Real Tech, real software. And you know,I think you have to be okay with putting in some time to learnthat. But the number one thing is go find yourself a mentor go reachout on Linkedin. Go actually put in time. Take somebody to spend.Spend the fourteen dollars at it costs to take somebody to an easy lunch.Say, let me take you to lunch. I want to pick your brain abouthow can I break into this industry? And so I'm we need more ofthat. Good friend of mine passed away last year. You know,he wanted to start, you know, not only at the university Utah butat schools. I mean schools do have sales and sales technology kind of programsnow, but there's nothing that gets people quite ready for sales career in techlike doing the job, and so he was trying to start something where youcould kind of do part time work as an internship at these companies to,you know, expand your capability. So it's, you know, unpaid internship, but going, going two hours a day, three hours a day,go make phone calls, go figure out what does it mean to work insales force and create leads in your crm and how does you know? Whatdoes that do for you? And you...

...know. So it's really sales.It's really before one hund and one whatever that class work is, and that'sa great a great idea, and I think there's company sort of like SVAcademy is sort of in that realm and there's there's a few of them thatI'm glad I second that question because I really liked your your answer and it'sso important not only for those trying to break into. Take that chance.But also the leaders in our industry at are listening that, when that thosepeople reach out, that we do, you know, take that lunch andwe take their call and give them a group, give giving of them thetime of day. And we all think we're too busy for it. Butwhat what would could we do if we, you know, brought you know,unfortunately, my team of Eight, I have, you know, nowomen. I would like that, but you know, but I have,you know, pretty diverse group. And what would it feel like if wecould bring, you know, two or three people from a blue collar manufacturingbackground or families like that that you know, or or an immigrant that is thehardest work you've ever seen, and bring them into this tech bubble thatis hard to break into? Yeah, how would you want, how wouldyou feel about it, to how great would that be? Because they've got, you know, all this six, all this capability to expand. Ourare thinking around diversity. You know, they're the departments of DNI, diversityinclusion. Every big a company, and we've got wanted to sell as well, are working on this and it's it's not just, you know, athis week, this month issue. It's not just a this year issue.It's a decade and a generational thing and we have to start now. Andyou know, I think some of the companies, even the smaller ones,have taken some really good strides to do that. Yeah, long ways togo, but at leaast we're taking some steps in that the right direction andvery passionate about it. So, mark, I think that's a perfect place towrap up. You are an absolute wealth of knowledge. Thank you forsharing it with our listeners. That was certainly enjoyable for me and everyone listening. So thank you, my friend. You're welcome, and thank you,Scott. Fun Time and we'll look for we'll look for this on your onyour blog and on your next post. So our fact. I thank youand for all those listeners. Thank you so much. We will see younext act. This was another episode of the sales engagement podcast. Join USat sales engagementcom for new episodes, resources and the book on sales engagement nowavailable on Amazon, Barnes and noble or wherever books are sold. To getthe most out of your sales engagement strategy, make sure to check out outreach,the leading sales engagement platform. See you on the next episode.

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