The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

Post-Pandemic Predictions for Hybrid Work


What do teams want most in 2021 and 2022? Human connection and employers that support them at home.

This might look like offering hybrid work schedules, providing access to coaching, deliberate culture and community creation, and support for spouses and parents — but what it will mean for certain is vulnerability.

In this episode, I interview the Cofounders and Cohosts of Women in Sales Club about their predictions for work in the nest 18 months:

-Gabrielle Blackwell, Sales Development Manager, Commercial at Gong 

-Alexine Mudawar, Major Account Executive at Displayr 

Join us as we discuss:

The origin story of Women in Sales Club

What onboarding and being onboarded remotely was like

Personal brand building and community creation

What hybrid work could (and should) look like

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts , on Spotify , or on our website .

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Welcome to the sales engagement podcast. This podcast is brought you by outreach, the leading sales engagement platform, and they just launched outreach on outreach, the place to learn how outreach well does outreach? Learn how the team follows up with every lead in record time after virtual events and turns them into revenue. You can also see how outreach runs account based plays, manages reps and so much more using their own sales engagement platform. Everything is backed by data pulled from outreach processes and customer base. When you're done, you'll be able to do it as good as they do. Had to outreach that io on outreach to see what they have going on. Now let's get into today's episode. Hello everybody, welcome back to the sales engage from podcast. I'm one of your hosts, Brook Bochesta late enablement for strs here at outreach. I'm also honor that I get to be a part of this podcast and I'm delighted to be joined today by Alexey Moodwar and Gabriel Blackwell, who are sales professionals, podcast host, Tarot reader and women of many talents are you both doing today? I'm sorry if I just added you. You're fine. No, you're fine. I used to do like a Tarot Tarot Tuesday or something like that. Well, yeah, fine, but no, I am doing very well. Thank you, Brook, same with me. So excited to be here, excited for this conversation. So well, Oh yeah, so we were just going to be talking about a lot of things, probably today, because we've got a really chatting, delightful crew here. One thing will be focusing on is just like some post pandemic predictions, like we're starting to come out of it, bless up, vaccinated, options are going back to the office, but things are going to change. I'm in died to hear your perspectives on it. But before we get into that, let's start with some intros and just tell us, I guess, your origin story or you know who you are, what it is that you do your two minute elevator pitch. And Alex, and why don't we start with you? Okay, so my name is Alexeinmodoar. I'm a major account executive at a company called displayer based here in Chicago. I've spent the last eight years in full cycle sales rolls, so doing the full gamut of doing my own prospecting, running my own meetings, closing, doing all of it. But it's been an incredible journey. Very passionate about women in sales and very lucky to have my cofounder here with me, Gabrielle Black Well, who co founded the women in Sales Club. So that's kind of how I spend my quote unquote, free time, whatever that is. But yeah, GV over to you. Okay, yes, scourge and story. So once upon the time there was a man in the UPSTAR. Yeah, no, Hey, everyone, my name is Gabrielle Blackwell, or GB. I am an sero manager at going for one of the commercial teams. I've been working in sales, specifically like str focused, for the past six years. I've also held roles as a sales and name the manager, as an eighty as well, but somehow, some way, I still end up in SDR management. And I know, yeah, yeah, yeah, so, no, I was the one who's out it as a Tarot card reader. So yeah, when I am not, when I am not practicing radical candor with my reps, I am out here practicing radical cander with some Tarot cards on myself or Alexey, and so excited to be here phenominal. All right. So well, like, let's chat the women is sales clubhound was really quick, like you both mentioned it. Like what what were you hoping to accomplish with that? Like, how is it going? It's going great. What we're we coping to accomplish? I'm not sure. Like, I think originally we just wanted a space where we could have some conversations that were on our mind. So our expectations were very low and it is so far exceeded anything we could have hoped for. We just surpassed three thousand two hundred members and followers, who, which is really exciting. Gabrielle knows, because I track this almost daily and then I centered the analytics and I get all nerdy with it. But but yeah, I think originally the whole thought was we wanted to just have a space where we could have some conversations that were relevant. Some are specific to women in sales, a lot aren't, though. A lot are just kind of topics and poster center, for instance, not really necessarily specific to women. But it's just been incredible and it's bullow me away the people that have continuously come back and have been with us week after week. It's just been an incredible experience. That's so great and I think. I think, yes, she said for sure, and I think one of the cool things about platforms like linkedin our clubhouses that it has allowed us to network. And so I'd be really curious, since you both started started your current gigs in the middle of the pandemic, like apocalypse was happening, what was on board and remotely like like, namely the networking and getting to know your team well, even if I were to go back before joining Gong. So joined the joined Gong in October, but I think there was like March of last year, music, March thirteen, and I was like all right, well, I'm going to be home. It's going to be what two weeks, four weeks maybe, if here we ...

...are over a year later. But you know, after let's say like three or four weeks of just being at home and I'm in my room and I kind of recognize, okay, well, how much work do I need to put into my role? First, first and foremost, like on my great well, what can I do? I want to grow. Where can I grow? And I started looking for networking opportunities. So joining communities like remnew collective, which is now pavilion, I believe, but a few other ones. But yeah, I think even networking within a totally virtual environment, I think, is what help set me up to be able to make a transition into a company like Gong. Whereas I was networking, was also learning, I was sharing what I was learning as well. Until I brought that over to Linkedin, my profile becomes all of a sudden were visible. Someone reaches out to me from Gong and now I have a job off or kind of thing. So I think like managing a team, though, in a virtual environment is weird, I'll be honest with you. So there's it's a little bit. It's different to build a relationship and I think even for managing a team it's like the relationship is kind of the foundational element of right. How are we going to communicate? How are we going to be able to deliver feedback? I can't deliver that feedback. So they don't have the relationship with folks I can. We actually have a productive, a productive dynamic between like myself and everyone on my team. So I think the remote environment has prompted me become a lot more intentional than I've ever really needed to be, and that regard and thankfully I have a team of people who are also wanting that intentionality, that thoughtfulness, that consideration. They want to bond, right, they want to have conversations, they want to build that rapport so I think there is that the fortunate piece of like I've found a community, found a network. It't mine for my values and I find myself like starting to gravitate, or those people starting to gravitate towards me in this environment that we're in. Yeah, and maybe you could expand on that, like the being an intentional part, because I think the weirdest thing for me because, like I'm an enablement now, but I was a frontline Sera manager during most of the pandemic and it's like, okay, now I have my thirty minutes for our oneonone. We're like okay, it's social time. Now get into like your personal mine and tell me what's happening in your life, and it's just like weird to have some planned interaction. So I don't know how y'all comb at it that or if you figured it out, but yeah, yeah, I think for me this is me being very, very transparent. I didn't do a good enough job and then I and then it's like change happens, like more change, and turn everyone's at home and with the St are role like it's a tough one. So if people are feeling as though, all right, hey, I'm already in my role and I don't get a lot of acknowledgement, I don't get a lot of recognition in general. Right, and then it's like, all right, we introduce all these changes and I feel like I don't have anyone who has my back, not even my boss. Then it's like what am I doing here? And so I did start to see that people were were leaving, and so I thought that I was being intentional, I thought that I was showing up, I thought that I was caring. I think take like, first and foremost, taking the time on the front end, like during someone's ramp for example, or if you're coming on board as a new leader and you're inheriting a team, or maybe someone switches on to your team, like taking those first few conversations, and they don't have to be full like hour long things, but it could be, hey, like four I had it somebody who who just joined. He's in a boarding we don't have any like planed time but I'm going to reach out to him and I'm going to go hey, here's who I am, here's what I value, here's what I see is important, and here the kinds of things like discipline, consistency, commitment, like if you were to abide by those kind of things, you're going to be able to set yourself up for the most success possible. By the way, what a success mean for you right, like, why is that important? What do you value? So it's a little bit like I'm going to share, I'm going to be vulnerable first and foremost, and then I will ask you all, invite you to be vulnerable with me. And so, like, will continue to do that exchange because in order also, like when this person comes out of a boarding are three months from now, when they're at a full quote Voda, and I need to give them feedback. If I have not demonstrated that care and who they are as a person, I have recognized what a success mean like for them. Do they want to be a Highflyer, SCR who's at a hundred fifty percent? Do they want to just hit, or do they just want to hit? So, like, the more that I can understand who they are as a person, what motivates them, drives them, like the values and the beliefs they hold about themselves and whether they're trying to accomplish right like and that's all going to be done through the relationship before building that actually, the better I can show up as a manager and the better able on, better I am at doing my job later on when it becomes really, really necessary. So I kind of just think about it of as this is an essential part of my role and if I'm not doing these things, I am not fulfilling the duties of my job. And if I'm not doing that, why am I in my position now soon? Did you have like a similar experience? Like, couse, you're on the other side right I'm learning as an ICEE and integrating yourself into this team. What was that like? Yeah, I mean it was. I would love to say that I like studied a bunch and like a chance to kind of get my feet under me. I didn't. I kind of jumped right in, like I was...

...on the phones pretty much week two and just kind of learning on the go, and that's very much my personality to I've been that way since I started out in sales and one of those people where, if I have the option, I'd rather learn through the hardships of it and kind of like ran my head through a brick wall then just kind of like sit and study and think about things, and that's just the way that I'm wired. So for me, I just kind of learned through, through a lot of our our prospects and clients, to be honest, and like got to know our industry. You got to know some of the commonalities. We realize that there's purity. As you start to talk to more and more people, you realize that there's purity and a lot of what you're hearing from different folks. So I think for me my experience was very much just jumping in head first, feeding from the fire hose all of it. But I think with that this is a new experience of getting to know brand new team remote. I've really only been in the office a few days with my actual team. So it is it's interesting. You get to know people's even like mannerisms via writing. Like you kind of have to understand like the way the people are via written format, because that's when you're really interacting between that and like you're one of ones. Is Gabrielle mentioned? So I think there's a lot of learning that took place for me and getting to know what people's preferred methods of communicating are and what what how people like to be approached. So I think some of those maybe I would have had those conversations even earlier on, but I think there's just so many learnings that it's been a really interesting experience. I do think for me it's been challenging to on board remote but it also like really pushed the best out of me, like I feel like I just like came in and just like got to work, like I close our fastest deal and company history, like I just like got down to it and ran and so I think like for me, it kind of forced me into the discomfort so fast that I got through it really fast too. So I think it's an interesting experience. I don't think that everyone's gonna be successful on boarding remotely, and I want to be candid about that. I think for certain people who may have had the same ramp that it wouldn't have gone the way that it did, and that's something that I think is leaders that you can, I do, you know, hopefully identify in them be able to figure out what people need and what resources they need. But yeah, very much a very quick onboarding experience from my end, for sure, and like learning to do the Jela, getting forced to do it, for sure. Is I that you have like awesome side effects, right, like closing fastest deal, like that's pretty awesome. But like what about like culture, like getting to know like the vibe of the team and the company, because we all work at these companies for you know, we like the product and like the job is cool, but obviously it's the people that were working with all day. Did you find that you were able to soak up the company culture? Was that a force function as well well? So we have an interesting additional layer where a lot of my team is actually based in Australia. So our core sales team is here in the US. A lot of our sea like kind of like customer success books are kind of sprinkled throughout the US on different time zones, but then, like all of our engineering, a lot of our back end teams are actually in Australia. So for me, the way that I kind of got to know them, however cheesy it is, is via slack channels. Like there wasn't going to really be like a great opportunity for me to just like individually jump on calls that like mid my time to get to most of these books. So I've got to know people via slack and like we kind of have like our running jokes now, and so that's been cool. Another thing that I recommended actually that we ended up implementing was doing sessions where we a kind of subset of people from different apartments and do zoom sessions and do you like a list of questions and get to know one another. So I made that recommendation pretty much when I started not thinking much of it, and then, by CEE, you ended up influencing it almost overnight. So now I've done like for I think of those sessions that are maybe like forty five minutes long, but those have been really cool opportunity because it's kind of like, you know, parts of it are a little cheesy or it's like what would you do if you weren't working? You know, if you if you didn't have to work again, what would you do with your time? And it's like this question, but I think that there's that was a really cool opportunity to get to know kind of the culture some people, especially that are on completely different time zones that I may never meet in person unless I get a trip topic here, but figure out. Yeah, hopefully. I'm like, I'm down for it. I don't love the flight, but happy to go if I'm so first class. Yeah, yeah, that's all you got to do, just first class on an eighteen hour flight. So easy, said. So spoke. Can you get oh yeah, I think like getting to know a company's culture is one thing, about like building it or changing it is a whole nother thing. And Youtube done something really incredible with thousands of followers now and your podcast clubhouse sessions, like you've created a community, which is super impression so, like, how would you describe the Vibe of your community that you built? Sassy so many and I would warm open, like I always think. I don't know if it's if it's just me,...

...but the first thing that comes to mine it's like a low barrier of entry, like I feel like people can just come to the conversation as themselves and there's like it just doesn't feel like there's an ego element to it, and that, for me, was something I struggled with for a long time as like I always feel like I have to like put up a front a lot of times and like assert myself as dominant and whatever situation. And in this case it's like many times Gabriel and I will come to the conversation saying, like we just let a session on ages and, for instance, very uncomfortable topic to lead a session on, especially with both of us being millennials, like we can only speak from a certain Lens. And so I think like even in those instances like walking in and acknowledging, like Hey, we are also here very much to learn and like understand from other people's perspectives and we are not here we're here to kind of, you help the conversation keep rolling, but like we're very much here for the same reasons you are, and so let's learn together. And so I think for me that's like the big piece that kind of resonates is like it just feels like everybody can come to the conversation, we don't have to have an ego or an air about it and we're just learning and we're getting better and it's all good. I never been thought about the question of, like what's the culture of Women in Sales Club? I never really been thought about that. Answering that question. But yeah, I mean I'll God like simply share and it's very much it's like exactly what Alexe in to saying. I speel. It's like a very authentic place, like there's no front. I joke are on it's at the Sassy piece because we jumped on our last session and Alex's like, Oh, hey, gb can you make me a moderator? I'm like only if you say please. Rights like Oh, you're Sassy. So I think there is a few things which is I think there's a deep sincerity of Alexand and I not like when we I feel like the conversations that we had and when women in Sales Club was first really starting, was like all right, hey, like what do you what do we want? Like we were intentional about this and I think that shows up in the conversations. Were like do want this to just be women? It's like no, like there's been so many men who have been so influential and so helpful in our careers and so like we under and I'll say I like I feel like I've come across more men who've been more supportive in the experiences that I've had. But when I think about all the support of people that I've come across in my career. So I'm like, all right, hey, like there's something here we also want to HAPP men like that's gonna be super important. It's not going to be a man bashing kind of thing. So you have integrated very harmonious experience as well so and then, and there's a lot of respect for it too. So I don't know, I think it's like this. It's not a matter of but it's a utopia by any means, but there's a there's the ability to have conflicts, for it to be healthy, for us to develop, for us to grow, and so I think that's very much in alignment with like my own values. I would imagine it's the same, they think, for alexides values. But what you're hearing, what you're seeing with Alexeine and me like, that's what you're going to get when you go into the women and Sales Club. Totally and I think like there's such an appetite these days, you know, because we all have been so isolated over the last year, to find those communities and find somewhere where you can have conversations and specifically like pointed, targeted, sometimes difficult ones, so I think you're right, like that's really where you get to know people. Of like, Oh, you know, I can't see people's faces on clubhouse, but you'll start to understand, like this is how so and so reacts when like they're feeling, like I they disagree or they're uncomfortable, and it's just like another way to get to know your teammates. So that is incredibly valuable. But also on like the professional development side, there's no denying that stuff like this brand recognition, like it's paramount to like building your brand and like, like you said, Gb like getting job offers like people. It's important to people know who you are. So, with that in mind, like, do you think that this kind of stuff is just going to be the norm moving forward? Like everybody should start thinking about okay, like what kind other communities am I integrated in? Because it's not the the business card networking events of the past. I will be honest, I don't know if this is a selfish take. I hope that it becomes like I hope the future is like linkedin profile replaces CV. I hope that brand building is like a component almost of kind of even like APP ever, applicancers and it doesn't mean like you don't have to go like above and beyond and like do anything crazy. I don't. I post once a week, pretty consistently. Once a week. That's it. I know people will post like seven days a week. I know people who are in ten different communities. People there in too. It's not necessarily to say like you have to have your hand and all these different pots and like I think brand building is made of many things. I think we think of brand we immediately go to like social media, and it's bigger. It's like ability, you know, getting to like these communities, like being a part of those. That's not even necessarily like a social media thing. That's kind of a behind the scenes but I think what's really interesting about that is there's like the self development aspect. Like there are people that I have run into in the same kind of communities that are focused on brand but they're also like very focused on like selfdevelopment, getting better, getting to know other people, understanding... what challenges they're up against so they can also like talk about the ones they're up against in their work. So I guess for me, I think brand building will be very interesting to watch because I think it's more integral and as I think about, like even looking through like my inbox, I get messages every single day. A lot of them tend to be men who are in revenue leadership roles who will actually reach out and say, like Hey, your profile, higher profile. Now I'm looking into this women in Sales Club. Now I'm thinking about like we don't really have them, any women on our team. Like what do we do? Where do we start? And so I want to like something really cool about brand that can kind of tether back to a lot of your values if you do it correctly. I think there's also, like we talked about this at Thursday night, sales a lot it's like the idea of community versus audience, and like there's people that are on there and their brand is very much to build like an audience that they can talk at. And I think for you know, I'm not going to speak for Gabrielle, but for myself specifically, like I'm very much in the community mindset. So if my brand hopefully comes off as me being someone who wants to help build out a community and be very community focused rather than me just talk at people online. So that was a lot, but that's my kind of piece on this. I love that. What you said, though, about like community versus audience, because you're right, like, we can all we all have the power of the megaphone on Linkedin and just like post stuff or whatever, your social media vice of choices. But yeah, like, if you're not actually connecting with those like the same reason that you can't just pitch people in their DM's because gold on you can. I don't even works. Yeah, do you think about that? GV? So you're going to make this a permanent zign hustle. So, so, real quick, remind me what's the question real quick. Oh, do we think that the need to build brand and like do these site like have a podcast, have a clubhouse, had like some like forum, is going to be the norm moving forward and it's not, like I hope, an exciting side? I mean, here's the thing is, if it's for okay, so, not to put all your business out there, Alexe, and but Alex seen had shared with me one of her strengths is woo like, if we look at the flift and strengths finder, and it's winning over others, and so a lot of it, a lot of her strengths are suited for community. So it makes sense. I get exhausted watching Alexe in in action like she does. And but like I was like I respect it, but I was like, for me, I think I'm tied. I'll be honest. I was like thinking about doing all of the things all at once. Yeah, being personally is exhausting. And I found and that was the experience that I had last year where I was joining rev collective and rev genius and there was all these things in that there's so many things that are out there, and so for me I actually felt really, really scattered. And so at the beginning of this year I really had to consolidate a lot of things. It wasn't just a matter of or. I had, yeah, I had, I had, I just had a consolidate. I had to get into a linement with myself on my Gr if I'm going to dedicate myself to, like to something, what is it going to be? And then a lot of it was orright, like what are my strengths? I like my strengths are much more like the ideation side, like I like to read, I like ideas. I'm a thinker or I am kind of like analytical in that way, and so I'm much more introspective and so like I'll have I'll do a lot more inner work and maybe I come up with something and I'm like all right, or I'm approaching a situation, let's say if it's at work. Or Yeah, let's just say if it's at work, and I'm like okay, well, there's some message that I need. Let me go out and look for that information. I find I come to as a flution. I try it out, it works really, really well for me one, two or three times and I go well, if it worked for me, maybe it'll work for others. And so like I don't necessarily go for the mindset of like, Oh, I want to build a community and I want to be connected to all these other people, because that, for me personally, is exhausting. But I do want to be a value and I think, especially within the SDR world, if they at least, what I observe is that there's not a lot of people, like there's a lot of content about str ring and there's tactical things and whatever else, but I'm like, there's still so many people who are trying to figure out, like how do I do my job and how do I do my job well? And they might not be getting that kind of instruction network. I've been in that experience before. So I'm like, all right, I'm investing all this time and too learning for myself. Like best way for me to actually continue to learn is to teach. So, like, for me it's not a matter of like, Oh, I have an audience. I think of it more so like be like a professor or being a coach. So I'm honestly talking at people, but I'm like, Hey, here's some perspective that could be helpful for you and if somebody I don't have a crap ton of people reaching out to me on Linkedin, on messages, unless I like have a post where I'm asking for people to like reach out to me. But like I do have like maybe one or two people who will reach out and share. Hey, listen,...

I'm going to try your stuff out and I'll ask or a cool like keep me updated on how it's working, like let me know how you applied it, if you're making changes. I do really, really curious and I'll follow up as well. So I for me it's not and like maybe just my community as much smaller in that way, but I kind of like this idea of or I'm doing a lot of work to learn. I can share that out, because that's one way that I learn, is through teaching, and then if there's one or two people where it resonates big time, like, that's more than enough for me. Yeah, totally, and I think like what you're both are touching on is, like you know, it's important to find your community, like your group, people you like vibe with. But of course we can't do it all. If we try, like if I try and be GB or Alexeying, like it may work for like a couple months, but like not sustainable, because you're just like, like you said, as an introvert. It's me too, like I can do those things when I come home exhausted and just like my human battery is so low and then I like can't bring my whole self to it. So, yeah, I totally agree. Like finding your niche and like what you're good at and just doubling down on it is super important. I also I'm also just thinking about, like I have so many conversations with folks like in the St your position we're coming through, and I've had conversations with co workers of mine who are peers and the conversations they'll have with me. It's like, Oh, Gb see you doing all these things and it's like I feel like I should be doing more, and I'm like no, don't like it's like just honestly, just like beat, like be yourself. I think that that's that's part of being, that's part of branding, because there is the Linkedin, social branding and whatnot, and because, by the way, there are downsides to it. Not Like we want to get real about it, there are some downsides to it. What are they? Top of your head, like cut just a cup. I think, like the bigger that your profile gets, for whatever reason, it's like there can be a target on your back either one. They're just target on your back, like and yeah, so, like so, and I think the reason why I could be just because this. I feel like I have to do these things. I don't think I can do these things and all of a sudden there's insecurity that might take place in this happened for me actually, before I started really like posting on Linkedin. I I've said the story of a Jillion Times, but there was somebody that I really respect and really remont admire now, where I looked at their profile and they were saying all the things that I wanted to say that I never said, and they were getting so much for it. And I think there was that moment where I was like, I'm driving out to my grandparents. See what, I'm driving out to my grandparents. Miracles happened, but I don't my grandparents house. And I was like, you know what, this feeling that I feel right now is jealousy, like I'm I'm I'm legitimately jealous right now and I don't want to be jealous. So, like what need? Like, where is this coming from? And I think I just recognize. I'm like, all right, listen, Gabrielle, are you really expecting for somebody else to dim their light just because you haven't figured out how to turn yours on? Like that makes no sense right. But for me, Oh, that like making blanket statements. Like for me, I've had to do a lot of personal work to even get to that place where I can start to question. Why am I feeling jealous? I don't want to feel jealous. What do I need to do to not be jealous? What is a shift that I need to make? And so for me, I realize the ship was, rather than looking at what this person is doing and what an internalizing what I'm not doing, as I can't do it. I have an opportunity. I'm a learner, right, that's my strength. I'm going to learn from this person. I'm going to look at their things, I'm going to look at their entire I'm going. I've done Nikki Ivy, Sarah Brazier, right, like I've gone back years and their linkedin profile. I'm like, Oh, they I was like what they're doing, or what they were doing, like is what I'm doing now, like they had to start from somewhere. So, like, let me say, let me just track the cogression. So I don't know that everybody recognizes like it takes a lot of work, like is it's one of the lot. Is a lot of freaking work. It doesn't happen overnight. I know for my end I get people who are like, Oh, hey, you're more you or more invested in your in your brand than you are and, let's say, your work, when that's absolutely not the case. So I think there can be many times where there can be OGB. You're just a brand and they're not actually taking me seriously as a professional so that to me, wow, vent hello, and I've heard this from other folks, like coworknut colors, with friends of mine who started becoming an influencer and their own thing, and so they got a lot of shade, honestly, at work. So they started to not be taken as seriously. So I think that there is a piece of like, I don't know that like every anybody and everybody should be that everyone needs to build a brand. I think that other other things I think about for a brand are when people think of your name, whether you're on Linkedin or not, what do they experience? What's the feeling that they associate with you? Are you trustworthy? Are you reliable? Are you somebody the really strong character? Are you someone who is a really hard work a really strong work ethic? Right, so, when you're like thinking about your re references, is your reference somebody who's going to represent your brand very well,...

...despite the fact that you might not have any followers on Linkedin? Who Cares? But it's like what you people come to expect from you when they hear your name like that tos like simply, what brand is? We went on a journey from we went on, yes, but everything multiple stamps. Yeah, but to the earlier point, that's the piece. Is, like brand is bigger than just social media presence, and so it's like, you know, when we bring it back home. That's kind of the underlying theme. So yeah, and I think like what you just experience here very much speaks to also the women in Sales Club rand. Like Gabrielle and I don't see perfectly eye to eye on so many things, and it doesn't mean that we're like you're wrong, like they don't agree. We are going to have different opinions and it would be so boring if we went to every conversation and have the exact same opinion on things like they're wouldn't be interesting, and so I like that. I like hearing her side on things. I like here, you know, I like talking about my side. I like hearing from other people's side that's totally different than both of us sometimes, and I think, like that's the piece when I think of like the inclusivity and for sales teams in the few you're like that's the core piece that's missing is it's not just like representation from people from different groups, it's also like that ability to have lived different experiences have different ideas, different understandings of different things, and then be able to come together and realize like, Oh, I want to take a little bit of that, this makes sense, let me keep a little bit of my own and we mash it all together and we have better sales team. So let's if we're ever to rebrand, we have to I don't even want to use the word diversity, but like I think that there is. There's something really curious about like how engaging a conversation can be when you can have so many different points of view exist at the exact same moment. It should be like the coexist bumper sticker for feeling like that would be our swag, made of like time some kind. I think there are, yeah, but there's that piece there. Of I think there's like one night or like one morning, I forgot was either about to go to bed or, as ours about, I was like waking up in the morning and I was like, you know what it is, Alexey, and really respect you, you know, like as I just really do. You know, I really accept you, and I like, yeah, I accept you, I respect you and like just because you know, she's had an experience and for her that experience is true, and it's the same thing for me and it's the same thing for other people and this group, and so like the more that I think we can share, the more of an opportunity we actually have to connect more deeply. So you do have the sense of community like or a hey, like it might be more big and more expansive, and for me I still feel like I get to have that like deep connection, that meaningful under like under the hood talk right where I use the word intimacy the other day and she's like be easy as like not the physical pride. Yeah, yeah, that's like the VIBE. Like we just did a session that was LGTB Qia, class and sales and like eat. To your point, it's audio only. Multiple people cried, like you could tell if you're including myself, including Gabrielle. It was like deep, we dug deep. We heard some like really tough stories that were hard to hear, but also like receive some incredible messages after. Like it was just this really beautiful and like that's where I get to where I'm like I wasn't embarrassed in that context of like crying on a speaker phone. Like I I felt zero embarrassment and if someone later were to ever say anything to me and be like how embarrassing, that's unprofessional, like that's unprofessional that you didn't cry on that session. So, oh my gosh, Saturday's let me live Aun during the world. So yeah, I think there's that piece to where like there is like a vulnerability that that exists within this to or. We are both putting ourselves out there. We also are acknowledging that like other people are putting themselves out there and bringing their stories to us, and so there's also this kind of like responsibility piece to keep this a safe environment, to to be mindful of everybody that's sharing and also to, you know, a responsibility to help bring these people together. And so I think there's almost like this healing good but I don't know, there's just a lot. It's a lot of different yeah, all in line, and it's really cool. It is cool, and I think like thinking about last year, like the last eighteen ish months write this pandemic like so much. You know, we had racial injustice brought center stage with the Pantemic, we were working from home, mental health, like all these things got brought up and I think I realize that I live in like liberal tech bubble and Seattle, and so I maybe delusional, but it feels like it's becoming more normal for people to have really vulnerable conversations at work and to talk about like, you know, things in their real life that are happening in the quote workplace. That would have been like taboo, if even our exact for like, I have never thought I'd be talking about race relations at a company. All hands, here we are. Do you think that's that's here to stay or passing trend or I don't know, what do you think?...

I hope so. I mean a lot of people have put their stuff out there now, like a lot of people have openly talked about mental health. I more so fear for the company that would try to use that as some kind of like backlash against that person for sharing something like that, because that would be unacceptable. But I think, like yeah, I think there's this piece of I don't know even know what's it called. It's like we all went through a global trauma simultaneously, as am like as an entire people. So everybody had kind of like like, I don't know anybody that. Last year was like I had a great year and I feel like my mental health went through the roof, like we I'm good things are going thriving. People did a lot of self work, a lot of introspection, and I think with that comes in this ego lower in peace. It's like Hey, I'm trying to work on myself, I'm going to put myself out there more, I'm going to like try to figure out like how to get better and in that like connect with others, and I think like that and of itself kind of like Lord that barrier. So I think these topics like mental health, like racial injustice, like ages, them is a big topic right now. That is going to start coming up more and more. Like we have a lot of jobs open and sales right now and a lot of folks in the fifty plus age bracket who are not getting those roles even though they are available. So I think there's a lot of like these these different areas that we should talk more about and I'm glad that we kind of open Pandora's box. And I guess to answer your question, no, I don't see us going backwards because you look at the upandcoming generation like they are, they are fully focused on like going to companies, that share, have a sheher value system, that care about these peoples of views. So I'm really excited for that generation to continue to rise up because I think they're going to force some of this into the light and some of this we've kind of hidden from as a corporate world and we've been able to turn a blind eye to and it's not going to be the case moving forward. It's just not going to be acceptable to the people that are going to be coming into the WORKPORT force, in the people that are already here. So I think it's here to stay and I'm I'm excited about the revolution like that. Like to to Wilson, I think, like God did say we would talk about predictions, and so to build upon that, let me ask you, like what do you think, like things that are going to chaming? For starters, work from home was like a no no for like sales of element teams forever, like, Oh my God, are you kid? Even nobody will work, and then we were forced into it and it seems like it worked out okay. I don't know. What else, what do you for see her happening with work requirements in general? It is the rest of two thousand and twenty and moving into two, twenty one. Oh, this is when we're going to conflict on which I like, I love it. So I think it's different. Like I am, you know, almost to a decade in my sales career as an individual contributor. Like I know what my work day looks like and I know how to organize my calendar. I have like the skill set to you that and I have like a very specific system. So for me, I think going back five days a week isn't an option. Like I don't think that I would necessarily do that. But I also want to point out that the companies that I've worked with over the years have been more start up, so we don't have like necessarily big team to get back together with. We don't have like a huge sales floor to kind of like come back together and have that shared camaraderie. So I think you know first many of us, it's going to be some kind of hybrid approach. I think that's more realistic, is that it's like a three days out, two days and kind of thing and we have a little bit more flexibility. I would love to think that we're going to test out the four day work week here in the US I think we'll see. You know, we always we always get the trickle down effect of silicon value. So I mean, we'll see what happens. But but yeah, I mean I think that there is going to be this component where people have now kind of you know, whatever analogy you want it, you want to use, but they tasted gold and like now they don't want silver. So it's like now we kind of want to get back to you. It's like we want to keep some aspect of what we've had. But I also think there is a piece where people are longing for human connection, and especially if you're someone that was like single or living alone during the last year, like that could have been a very painful time, but I know that it was sort of people, and so I think that there is a piece where we will probably seek out different ways to connect with one another, and I think that's why we're seeing these communities emerge so heavily right now to, you know, specifically for this the sales text base. But you're seeing this emergence of these communities like we've never seen in previous years, and I think it's for that reason, because it's like we still want to be connected, but maybe the medium has changed a little bit, so I'll be curious to see what it looks like, but I think that the hybrid approach will probably be here was, so I don't think there's any conflicts. That fully on it. I was you waiting for the office and I feel like you could have like, I don't know who we have a cool office or not. I've never been inside of it. Not that my here's my thought is, I mean what we're sharing of especially within the STO, like the the Sales Development Organization. There was it's like you couldn't talk about an... are working from home. They're like no, like what do they want to do? Or they just like slack it off, or so it's like it would there. There it's like this over emphasis on we have to see people in the office, you have to have the culture in the office. And I will say, like I'm itching to get into an office and it's not even so much of like I want to like work in the office, but there. I've had an opportunity to do it happy hour with some other gongsters who are in the Chicagoland area and I was like I missed the camaraderie. Like these are not even people that I'm working with on a day to day basis, but just the bet that they're people, we get along, we are all seemed to be like working for the same thing, but also like we just get along as people, were invested in each other as people. We can go and have a drink and meet each other significant others, right. So there's that like socialization that happens here. Squeaking, that's my dog Bible. Yeah, saw him or her, by the way. Yeah, very cute that. That to me, is like those are the kind of interactions in the engagements that I miss and I think just more, more importantly, who, I think, is here to stay as our options, or that's that's what I think it is. The hybrid will I if you're the kind of person who wants to go in five days a week, so whether you're like single or or married or whatever. I mean there's some people who are married who don't want to be at home right either. Like, wait a minute, I didn't have married this person to be with them twenty four hours a day. So you know, it's yeah, so I think it's just work or employers really having to be intentional and thoughtful about how do we keep our employees engaged. And I think once upon a time engagement looks like buying lunch and you know, so, yeah, buying launch and catering and having the drinks and snacks in the cool office and all these like perk slows like fun things. But it's probably a lot more like hey, what does how do we support our employees mental health? Like, does that mean investing more in resources look say, like modern health, for example, or like people really want to develop a girl in their careers? Do we give them more access to coaching and whatnot? Like all the money that we're spending on physical locations, can that be reallocated for something that's going to be that much more meaningful and significant for folks? So I think there's this piece of our yeah, like what does engagement mean? I think like in a codd environment, we've had a rethink. What does engagement mean? What does it look like and how do we get there? And so that then reason opportunity for companies to go all right, well, in a world where we can go back then to the office, like yeah, like what does engagement mean? And maybe just means the fact that people have a choice as to like where they're going to work and when they're going to work there. Yeah, and I think like we're talking about, like it's like engagement is changing, like for sure on the employee side, but also the way we get in touch with their prospects. Like you two are expert prospectors. I mean you built a network, you build this community, do it for a living, so obviously you know what you're doing. And haters have been saying the cold calling is dead for I don't know how long. Definitely as long as I've been I don't, Hey, don't find out, it's so real, it's happening. Don't you don't call your right. You're right, it is dead. I think like it's just been like the forever scapegoat of like sales, like Oh yeah, boog cold calling, but it works obviously really well. So what do you think, like the next scapegoat, like the next thing that people will say doesn't work but it totally does, might be sales development. As weird question in generally mean like the whole department. I've heard. Listen. So this is probably the one part where Alexey and I, like, if we were ever to get into a flight, this would be the one. So good one then right, it's not like lose, not. I'm not like, Oh, Hey, I got some beef with you. We're going to show up at a podcast. Right. No, it's not that. That's not that at all. So I think there was there was a no, because there was a there was a pole, and it's like who has the toughest job? S D or a E. It's not so much like what's the new skategoat? I think it's more so like what's the new sales vers marketing alignment? Yeah, right, like SDNA. I'm like, listen, y'all, like we're all the same team. Yes, both of our jobs can freaking stock. They're both aren't in different ways. Yeah, that's really hard. So like let's let's just, let's just keep it. Let's I'm sorry, I'M gonna agree. I know. So I agree, but I've also been I've also been a part of str orgs, and I think this is part of like why I get the way that I get about. This is where sales development was the scapegoat, right, and you have new leaders to come in. They're like, Oh, the reason we're not doing well because strs don't know how to do their job and we are more junior or they don't know how to talk to people, they're fresh out of college. They make up all but and then people end up losing their jobs for real, for real. So, like I think it's that to me. Is why I say, like, who's the new scapegoat? Like I've seeing it happened a with jillion times and I'm just going to say sales...

...development as a whole is like the new scapegoat. I would not disagree with that. I think where we can flickt is on certain aspects, like they're like I'm in a full cycle sales role. I do my own prospecting, I book my own meetings, I run my own demos, I close my own deals, like I'm in a very heavy role, but I'm also in a certain an organization where that role makes sense. I don't think for every organization. I don't think it doesn't make sense for every organization to have or not to have a sales development team. So I think for Gong it makes a lot of sense to have a sales filment or. I've no issue with that. I would agree that I did lead it, so I wasn't headed up at str team previously, and so I very much was on the receiving end of that, which was ironic because, yeah, there was a lot of tension coming from the east side, and then I came from that world. So I'm like what. It was interesting to be in the middle of it because I was like I've lived in both worlds. So it was very fascinating for me and it did feel very familiar to that marketing versus kind of sales, and I will see. The other thing that I think is kind of the next thing as Gabrielle that is would say that people are going to put who on is the social side, like the social prospecting, social branding. There are a lot of people. I remember there was like this a ward that came out for top sales people whatever, and I remember someone like went through and commented on every post like show me your two, like show me your w two, I want to see what you make, you know whatever, and my got meat and I was in home too much time. I was so weird. I was like yeah, but I was like nobody's claiming that this this was like a separate salary for them by any means. So it was like so interesting. So I do think there's this piece around like maybe a misunderstanding of why some people are doing some of that and how prospecting works versus social, via social, and so I think that that's going to be like the newer one is there's a lot of people that are usually what happens is the one area that people are most uncomfortable with is the one that they tend to then affert as the thing that's not working. So if that sales development, if that's cold calling, social is scary because the cold calling you don't see the person's face, so you have a kind of a hidden layer. Social is scary because your prospecting, they can see her face, they get click your company, they could forward your message to your vp if they wanted to. So it is there's a very like scary, real element about that, and so I think that that's kind of the underlying reason that we see very similar phenomenon and cold calling people. You know, unless you're sick like me and and actually enjoy cold calling for like they're, there are a lot of people who don't and so they're like, oh, it doesn't work, like let me make sure that everybody knows this and let this be a resounding message. So then I don't have to do the cold call because it's a waste of time. So I'm with Gabriel where I'm like yeah, cold calling doesn't work, but I'm like setting like ninety five percent of my meetings vih cold call. So I'm like, you know, a very no. I was. Yeah, I was yeah, I'm like, I'm cold caller. That that was it. That's how I try now. It's not for everyone, right, but I think because it he knows, like if it goes back to your strength. And I was like, Oh hey, cold calling is dead, and I listened to a BA Julian calls all the time. And so typically the people who respond the most in the most like adverse way to the Reps. I'm like, you know, these are probably not the right people to talk to to begin with, right, so not the right idium. Like know the salespeople who have inflated titles and can't do nothing with that title, and then you call them and they're like, they're you're probably the thirty person who's called them that day and they had to explain for the thirty time I have no power, right, and then they're liked is dead. It's like no, I just have an appropriate title. Sir Or Ma'am Right, I don't know that that's like that's the way that I approached the haters. I'm just like, I have to like consider the source. Right, right, and I think you would have a great point, Alexey, and of like you know, we're all scared and all capacities of things that we don't understand man or that like seem elusive to us. So I guess might take away from this is like if there's a prospecting strategy that I'm like on the fence with the like no, no, it's probably gonna start that I should at least try it. Just check it out. Video, videos, videos, that one for me, you know, straight to videos, the one that where I'm like, omncorperable. FEE are so creative. Like we did at we did a set video prospecting and people are doing backflips and playing a guitar and I my God, Super Dry, so dry. I was just like, Oh, I didn't get the memo that I was supposed to be funny. I'm sure he did great well. I definitely appreciate both of your insights. I think we're just about a time. I want to make sure I could talk to you both all night, but I'll let you get back to your evenings. But if folks want to get in touch with you, I set up for wisdom join a clubhouse. Where might they find you? Yes, so definitely follow Gabrielle Myself. Connect with... on Linkedin. We love getting just little messages. And then also we have a women in Sales Club linkedin page now that you can follow. will be posting all of our upcoming events and we do host events from two to four PM central time every Saturday on clubhouse. Stay tuned because there may be some new events coming out very soon. And then on clubhouse we are also under the same name women in Sales Club. So you can follow the club, you can get the event updates that way as well. And Yeah, you can find us one way or another and we look forward to talking. Tell you I love it all right, Alex and Moodwar, Gabriel Blackwell and ORGB final on Linkedin. Thank you so much. Forth you and have the lovely evening. Got A journey. Thank you. This was another episode of the sales engagement podcast. To help this get in front of more eyes and ears, please leave us a shining five star review. Join US at sales engagementcom for new episodes resources in the book on sales engagement. To get the most out of your sales engagement strategy, make sure to check out outreach. That ioh, the leading sales engagement platform. See you on the next episode.

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