The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 2 weeks ago

Post-Pandemic Predictions for Hybrid Work


What do teams want most in 2021 and 2022? Human connection and employers that support them at home.

This might look like offering hybrid work schedules, providing access to coaching, deliberate culture and community creation, and support for spouses and parents — but what it will mean for certain is vulnerability.

In this episode, I interview the Cofounders and Cohosts of Women in Sales Club about their predictions for work in the nest 18 months:

-Gabrielle Blackwell, Sales Development Manager, Commercial at Gong 

-Alexine Mudawar, Major Account Executive at Displayr 

Join us as we discuss:

The origin story of Women in Sales Club

What onboarding and being onboarded remotely was like

Personal brand building and community creation

What hybrid work could (and should) look like

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts , on Spotify , or on our website .

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Sales Engagement

in your favorite podcast player.

Welcome to the sales engager of apodcast, this podcast is brought you by out reach the leading sales engagementplatform and they just launched out reach on our reach the police to learnhow out reach wealth does not reach learn how the team follows up withevery lead in record time after virtual events and turns them into revenue. Youcan also see how our etins account based plays, manages rips and so muchmore using their own sales engagement platform. Everything is backed by datapulled from out reach processes and customer base when you're done you'llbe able to do it as good as they do, and I reach on io son out reach to seewhat they have going on now, let's get into the day's episode hello, everybody welcome back to thesales engagement podcast, I'm one of your host Brook Bacheta. I laid anAbleman for SDRs here at out reach. I'm also honor that I get to be a part ofthis podcast and I am delighted to be joined today by Alexy Mood, War andGabriel Blackwell, who are sales professionals, podcast, host teroreader women of many talents. Are you bout doing today? I'm sorry if I justouted, you you're fine, now you're fine, I used to feel like a a terro aterTuesday, or something like that. Well, yeah! I let, but now I am doing verywell. Thank you broke same with me, so excited to be here and stated to hisconversation. Well Yeah. So we are we're going to betalking about a lot of things. Probably today, because we've got a reallychanty delightful Acre here, and one thing will be focusing on is just likesome post pandemic predictions like we're starting to come out of it blessup vaccinated options or going back to the office, but things are going tochange. So I intese to hear your perspectives on it, but before we getinto that, let's start on with some intro and just tell us, I guess yourorigin story, or you know who you are, what it is that you do your two min anelevator, pish and Alex you want o. We start with you, okay, so my name isAlec. See Me Dewar, I'm a major account executive at a company called displayerbased here in Chicago I've spent the last eight years in full cycle salesroles, so doing the full gamut of doing my own prospecting running my ownmeetings, closing doing all of it, but it's been an incredible journey, I'mvery passionate about women in sales and very lucky to have my co founderhere with me, Gabriel, black, well, to coconower in sales club. So that's kindof how I spend my quoting quote free time what I think it is, but You vOverdo: Okay, yes, origin story! So once upon the time there is a man ofwopsy, no everyone, My name is Gabrielle Blackwell or GB. I am an SRmanager at Gong. For one of the commercial teams, I've been working insales, specifically like SDR focus for the past six years. I've also heldroles as a sales and naval move manager as an eight as well, but somehow someway I still end up in SDR management, and I so Yahyah yea. So now I was theone who was outed as a terror card reader, so yeah when I am not when I amnot practicing radical candor with my raps. I am out here practicing right ofo Ander, with some Taro cards on myself or Alexin, so excited to be here phenomenal, all right so like let'schat the women at Sales Club, a was really quick like you both mentioned itlike what what were you hoping to accomplish with that like how? How isit going? It's going great well we'll be hoping to accomplish. I'm not sure,like, I think. Originally, we just wanted a space where we could have someconversations that were on our mind, so our expectations were very low and itis so far exceeded anything we could have hoped for. We just surpassedthirty two hundred members of followers, which is really exciting. Gabriel knowsbecause I track this almost daily and then I sent er the analytics and I getall noty with it, but but yeah I think originally the whole thought was. Wewanted to just have a space where we could have some conversations that wererelevant. Some are specific to women in sales. A lot aren't they. A lot arejust kind of topics and posters in em, for instance, not really necessarilyspecific to women, but it's just get incredible and it's pulling me away thepeople that have continuously come back and have been with us week after week.It's just been an incredible experience, that's so great, and I think yes, what she said for sure and I thinkone of the cool things about platforms like Linkedin or club pass that it hasallowed us to network, and so I'd be really curious. Since you both startedstarted. Your current gigs in the middle of the pandemic, like apocalyps,was happening. What was on boarding remotely like, like, namely the network,and getting to know your team? Well, even if I were to go back beforejoining gone to join yeah, I joined Ballingan October, but I think therewas like March of last year. I was like March thirteenth and I was like allright. Well, I'm going to be home, it's going to be what two weeks four weeks,maybe if we are over a year later, but... know after let's say like three orfour weeks so of just being at home, and I in my room and I kind ofrecognize, okay. Well, how much work do I need to put in to my role? First,first and foremost like I'm, my Gary? Well, what can I do? I want to grow.Where could I grow and I started looking for networking opportunities sojoining communities like premna collective, which is now pavilion, Ibelieve, but few other ones, but yeah, I think even networking within atotally virtual environment, I think, is what helps set me up to be able tomake a transition into a company like bomb, whereas I was networking was alsolearning. I was sharing what I was learning as well an so I brought thatover to Linden. My profile becomes all of a sudden, more visible. Someonereaches out to me from gone, and now I have a job offer type of thing. So Ithink, like managing a team, though in a virtual environment, is weird I'll,be honest with you. So there's it's a little bit, it's different to build arelationship and I think, even for managing a team, it's like therelationship is kind of the foundational element of all right. Howare we going to communicate? How are we going to be able to deliver feedback? Ican't deliver that feed backs. They don't have the relationship with folksthat can we actually have a productive, a productive dynamic between likemyself and everyone on my team. So I think the remote environment hasprompted me to become a lot more intentional than I've ever reallyneeded to be in that regard, and thankfully I have a team of people whoare also wanting that intentionality that thoughtfulness that considerationthey want a bond right. They want to have conversations they want to buildthe report. So I think there is that that fortunate piece of like I've founda community found a network. I don't want my values and I find myself likestarting to gravitate or this ee starting to gravitate towards me inthis environment that were in yeah, and maybe you could expand on that, likethe being an intentional part, because I think the weirdest thing for mebecause, like I'm in enablement now, but I was a front line as era managerduring most of the pandemic, and it's like okay. Now I have my thirty minutesfor one on one: We're like okay, it's social time now get into like yourpersonal line. Tell me what's happening in your life and it's just like weirdto to have some planned interaction. So I don't know how y'all come out of thator if you figured it out because yeah yeah, I think for me this is me being very,very transparent. I didn't do a good enough job and then I then it's likechange happens like more change in turn everyone's at home and with the SDRrole like it's a tough one. So if people are feeling as though all right-hey I'm already in my role and I don't get a lot of acknowledgement- I don'tget a lot of recognition in general right and then it's like all right. Weintroduce all these changes and I feel, like I don't have anyone who has myback, not even my boss, then it's like what am I doing here,and so I did start to see that people were relieving, and so I thought that Iwas being intentional. I thought that I was showing up. I thought that I wascaring. I think take like first and foremost taking the time on the frontend like during someone's ramp, for example, or if you're coming on boardas a new leader and your inheriting, a team, or maybe someone switches on yourteam like taking those first few conversations and they don't have to befull like our long things, but it could be hey like for her. I had it somebodywho who just joined he's in all boarding. We don't have any like planetime, but I'm going to reach out to him and I'm going to go hey here's, who Iam here's what I value. Here's. What I see is important and here the kinds ofthings like discipline, consistency, commitment like if you were to abide bythose kind of things you're going to be able to set yourself up for the mostcess possible by the way. What does success mean for you right like? Why isthat important? What do you value it's a little bit like I'm on to share I'mgoing to be vulnerable first and foremost, and then I will ask you I'llinvite you to be vulnerable with me and so, like we'll continue to do thatexchange, because in order also like when this person comes out all morningor three months from now, when they're out a full quota, and I need to givethem feedback if I have not demonstrated that care and who they areas a person, I have recognized what a success mean like for them. Do theywant to be a high flyer SDRs at a hundred, an fifty percent? Do they wantto just hit, or do they just want to hit so like the more that I canunderstand who they are as a person? What motivates them drives them likethe values and the beliefs they hold about themselves and what they'retrying to accomplish right like and that's all going to be done through therelationship before building that actually the better I can show up as amanager in the better able I better. I am at a doing my job later on when itbecomes really really necessary. So I kind of just think about it, as this isan essential part of my role, and if I'm not doing these things, I am notfulfilling the duties of my job and if I'm not doing that, why am I in myposition now see? Did you have like a similar experience like cause you're onthe other side, right Alberdin as an ice and integrating yourself into thisteam? What was that like? Yeah I mean it was. I would love to say that I likestudied a bunch and like got a chance to kind of get my feet under me. Ididn't I I kind of jumped right in like...

I was on the phones pretty much weektoo, and just kind of learning on the go and that's very much. My personalityto I've been that way since I started out in sales and one of those peoplewhere, if I have the option, I'd rather learn through the hardships of it andkind of like ran my head through brick wall, then just kind of like sit andstudy and think about things, and that's just the way that I'm wired. Sofor me, I just kind of learned through a lot of our our prospects and science.To be honest and like got to know our industry, you got to know some of thecommonalities who realize that there's purity, as you starch, to talk to moreand more people, realize that there's purity and a lot of what you're hearingfrom different folks. So I think for me my experience was very much justjumping in head first feeding from the fire house all that, but I think withthat. This is a new experience of getting to know brand new team remote.I've really only been in the office a few days with my actual team, so it isit's interesting. You get to know people's even like Manais via writing,like you kind of have to understand, like the way the people are via writtenformat, because that's when you really interacting between that and like yourone of ones is Gabriel mention. So I think there's a lot of learning thattook place for me and getting to know what people's prefer methods ofcommunicating are and what what how people like to be emplaced. So I thinksome of those- maybe I would have had this conversation even earlier on, butI think there's just so many learnings that it's been a really interestingexperience. I do think for me: It's been challenging Tom Board remote andit also like really push the best out of me, like I feel like I just likecame in and just like got to work. Like I closed our fastest deal in companyhistory, like I just like, got down to it and ran, and so I think like for me,it kind of forced me into the discomfort so fasted our Getulia to so.I think it's an interesting experience. I don't think that everyone's going tobe successful on boarding remotely, and I want to be candid about that. I thinkfor certain people who may have had the same want that it wouldn't have gonethe way that it did and that's something that I think is leaders thatyou can, you know, hopefully identify and then be able to figure out whatpeople need and what resources they need, but yeah very much a very quickon boarding experience for my ends for sure and like learning to do the Jenikgetting forced to do it for sure. Is I not yea like awesome side effects rightlike closing fast, a deal like that's pretty awesome but like what about likeculture, getting to know like the vibe of the team and the company, because weall work at these companies. For you know, we like the product and like thejob, is cool, but obviously it's the people that were working with all daydid you find that you were able to soak up the company culture or, as that, aforce function as well? Well, so we have an interesting additional layerwhere a lot of my team is actually based in Australia. So our Corse salesteam is here in the US a lot of Orca, a kind of like customer success, God sokind of sprinkle throughout the US and different times, and but then, like allof our engineering, a lot of our back and teams are actually in Australia. Sofor me, the way that I kind of got to noten how he cheesy it is, is Vasakchannels like there wasn't going to really be like a great opportunity forme to just like individually jump on calls at like Mitry time to get tothose facebooks. So I've gotten to know people vi a slack and like we kind ofhave like a running jokes now, and so that's been cool. Another thing that Irecommended actually that we ended up implementing was doing sessions wherewe take kind of a subset of people from different departments and do zoomsessions and do like a listed questions, an get to know one another. So I madethat recommendation pretty much when I started not thinking much of it andthen I see you ended up influencing almost overnight so now I've done likefor I think, of base sessions that are maybe like forty five minutes long, butthose have been a really cool opportunity because it's kind of likeyou know, part to get a little cheesy where it's like. What would you do ifyou weren't working? You know if you, if you didn't, have to work again? Whatwould you do with your time? It's like is is a question, but I think thatthere is that was a really cool opportunity to get to know kind of theculture some people, especially that are on completely different times,things that I may never meet in person unless I get a etate but a thing thatye from yeah, hopefully I'm like I'm down for it. I don't love the flight,but in happy a first as yeah yeah. That's what you got to do just firstclass on the eighteen hour flight so easy as we can. You go well yeah and I think, like fromgetting a new company's culture, is one thing about like building it orchanging. It is a whole another thing and you to do something reallyincredible with thousands of followers. Now on your podcast clubhouse sessions,like you created a community which is super impression so like. How would youdescribe the Vibe of your community that you built Sastyana Open, like I alwaysi think I don't know ifit's if it's just me, but the first...

...thing that comes to mind. It's like alow barrier. E entry, like I feel like people, can just come to theconversation as themselves and there's like it just doesn't feel like there'san ego element to it and they agree with something I struggled like for along time is like I always feel like. I have to like put up a front a lot oftimes and like assert myself as dominant and whatever situation, and inthis case it's like many times Gabriella. I will come to aconversation saying like we just let us session on ages and, for instance, veryuncomfortable topic to lead a session on, especially with both of us beingmillennials lit. We can only speak from a certain Lens, and so I think, likeeven in those instances like walking in and acknowledging like Hey, we are allso here very much to learn and like understand from other people'sperspectives, and we are not we're here to kind of help. The conversation keep rolling,but like we're very much here for the same reasons you are, and so let's cantogether, and so I think for me, that's like the big piece that kind ofresonates. It's like it just feels. Like everybody can come to theconversation. We don't have to have an EGO or an air about it and we're justlearning and we're getting better and it's all gay. I never even thoughtabout the question of like what's the culture of women in Sales Club, like Inever really begot about that, I answering that question, but yeah Imean L, how like simply share, and it's very much it's like exactly whatAlexina saying I feel it's like a very authentic place. Like there's no front,I joke around us to a Sassy piece because he jumped on car last sessionand alices like Oh, hey GB, can you make me a moderator? I'm like? Oh, ifyou say please right like or as so. I think there is a few things which is, Ithink, there's a deep sincerity of Alexin and I not like when I feel likethe conversations that we had and when women in Sales Club is first for thestarting was like all right. Hey like what do you, what do we want like? Wewere intentional about this, and I think that shows up more conversationslike do want this to just be women. It's like no, what there's been so manymen who have been so influential and so helpful in our careers and so like weunder an all SAR like a S. I've come across more men, who've been moresupportive in the experiences that I've had, but when I think about all thesupportive people that have come across in my career, so I'm like all righthand like there's something here. We also want to have men like that's Goin,to be super important. It's it going to be a man vouching kind of thing, so youhave is integrated, very harmonious experience as well, so and then andthere's a lot of respect for it too. So I don't know. I think it's like this.It's not a matter of it's a utopia by any means, but there's a there's. Theability to have conflicts for it to be healthy for use, develop for us to grow,and I think it's very much an alignment with like my own values. I would imagineit's the same thing for alsen values, but what you're hearing what you'reseeing with Alexina me like? That's what you're going to get when he'sgoing to the women in sales blub totally, and I think, like there's suchan appetite these days. You know because we all have been so isolatedover the last year to find those communities and find somewhere whereyou can have conversations and specifically, like pointed targeted,sometimes difficult ones. I think you're right, like that's really whereyou get to know people of like you know, I can't see people's faces on clubhouse, but you'll start to understand like this. Is How so and so reacts when,like they're feeling like they disagree or they're uncomfortable, and it's justlike another way to get to know your teammates, so that is incrediblyvaluable, but also on, like the professional development side. There'sno denying that stuff like this brand recognition, like it's paramount tolike building your brand and like, like you, said, dv like getting job offerslike people, it's important, a people know who you are so with that in mindlike do you think that this kind of stuff is just going to be the norm?Moving forward, like everybody should start thinking about? Okay, like whatother communities am I integrated in, because it's not the the business cardnetworking events of the past- I will be honest. I don't know if this is aselfish take. I hope that it becomes like. I hope the future is likelinkedin profile would places V. I hope that brand building is like a componentalmost of kind of even like a for apple can er and it doesn't mean like you,don't have to go like above and beyond and like do anything crazy. I don't. Ipost once a week pretty consistently once a week. That's it. I know peoplepost like seven days a week. I know people are in ten different communities.People there into it's, not necessarily to say, like you, have to have yourhand in all these different pots and, like I think, brand building is made ofmany things. I think we think it Ramedan Gan to like social media andit's bigger pot. It's like ability, you know getting to like these communitieslike being a part of days. That's not even necessary a social media thing,that's kind of behind the scenes, but I think what's really interesting aboutthat is there's like the self development aspect like there arepeople that I have run into in the same kind of communities that are focused ongrand but they're, also like very focused on, like self develment,getting better getting to moll other...

...people, understanding like whatchallenges they're up against. So they can ask they like talk about the onesthey're up against an haillot. So I guess for me, I think breining will bevery interesting to watch, because I think it's pre more integral and, as Ithink about like even looking through, like my inbox, I get messages everysingle day. A lot of them tend to be men who are in revenue, leadershiproles who will actually reach out and say, like hey your quoties hier profile.Now I'm looking into this woman in Sales Club now, I'm thinking about likewe, don't really have that many moving on our team like what do we do? Wheredo we start? And so I was like thing really cool about Brian. That can kindof tather back to a lot of your values. If you do it Cleckley and there's alsolike we talk about this Thursday night sales, a lot, it's like the idea ofcommunity goes his audience and like there's, people that are on there andtheir brand is very much to build like an audience that they can talk at, andI think, for you know, I'm not going to speak for Gabriel, but for myself,specifically like I'm very much in the community Nanse. So if my grandhopefully comes off as me, being someone who wants to hold build out acommunity and be very community focused rather than you just pocket peopleonline. So that was a lot, but that was my kind of peace on this. I love thatwhat you said, though, about like community, were his audience becauseyou're right like we can all we all have the power of the megaphone onlinked in to just like post stuff or whatever your social media vice ofchoices but yeah like if you're down actually connecting with those like thesame reason that you can't just pitch people in their dams because e Don wego, you can worse, you think about that G,so you're going to make this a permanent sign hustle. So so real quick remind me. What's Thequestion we quo? Do we think that the need to build brand and like do thesesite like have a podcast? Have a club house have like some like forum, isgoing to be the norm moving forward? And it's not like, I hope, an excitingsignore's for okay so that to put all your business out there Alexine, but Ialexine had shared with me. One of her strengths is who like, if you look atthe Clifton strength, fonder and it's winning over others and so a lot of it.A lot of her strengths are suited for a community, so it makes sense I getexhausted, watching Alex en an action like she she does but like I was like,I respect it, but I was like for me. I was like I'm tied. I I'll be honest. Ilike a thinking about doing all of the things all at once. Yeah. He personallyis exhausting, and I found- and that was the experience that I had last yearwhere I was joining reg, collective and rum genius, a D- And there was allthese tinge that there's so many things that are out there and so for me. Iactually felt really really scattered, and so at the beginning of this year Ireally had to consolidate a lot of things. It wasn't just a matter of or aI has yeah I had. I just had a consolidate I had to give in to alinement with myself on my grit. If I'm going to dedicate myself to like tosomething what is it going to be, and then a lot of it was a right like whatare my strength. I, like my strings, are much more like the ideation side.Like I like to read, I like ideas, I'm a thinker right, I'm kind of likeanalytical in that way, and so I'm much more introspective and so like I'llI'll, do a lot more inner work, and maybe I come up with something and I'mlike all right for or I M, I m approaching a situation that Sapis atwork or yeah. I was just say if it's at work and I'm like okay, well, there'ssome message that I need. Let me go out and look for that information. I find II come to a resolution. I try it out at work, rully well for me one two threetimes and I go: Will it work for me? Maybe it don't work for others and solike? I don't necessarily go to the mindset of like Oh, I want to build acommunity and I want to be connected to all these other people, because that,for me personally is exhausted, but I do want to be a value, and I thinkespecially the Astalli, to wit at least what I observe is that there's not alot of people like there's a lot of content about Sdeins, tactical thingsand whatever as but I'm like, there's still so many people who are trying tofigure out like how do I do my drive and how do I do my driver and theymight not be giving that kind of instruction at work. I've been in toexperience the FIR, so I'm like all right. I'm investing all this time intolearning for myself like best way for me to actually continue to learn, is toteach so like. For me, it's not a matter of like Oh, I have a bad ance, Ithink of it more so like like be like a professor or be a coach. So, like I'm,not sly, talking at people go like okay, here's some to spect. That could behelper for and if somebody, I don't have a crop ton of people reaching outto me on Linkedin on messages, unless I like have a post for I'm asking forpeople to like reach out to me, but like I do have like maybe one or twopeople who will reach out andh share:...

Hey, listen, I'm going to try yourstuff out and I'll ask or a cool like keep me updated on how it's workinglike. Let me know how you applied it if you're, making changes I'd, be reallyreally curious and not follow up as well. So I for me it's not and likemaybe just my community is much smaller in that way, but I kind of like thisidea of all right, I'm doing a lot of work to learn. I can share that out.That's one way that I learn is through teaching and then, if there's one ortwo people where it resonates big time like that's more than e, not for meyeah totally and I think like what you're both are touching on is, likeyou know, it's important to find your community, like your group of peoplethat you like vibe with, but of course we can't do it all if we try like if Itry and be GB or Alexine like it may work for like a couple of months butlike not sustainable because you're, just like, like you said as anintremere. That's me too, like I can't do those things I I come home exhausted.Just like my human battery is so low and then I like can't bring my wholeself to it. So yeah. I totally agree like finding your knees like whatyou're good at just doubling down on it. Is it's so important? I also some alsojust thinking about like I have so many conversations withfolks like in the so. Your position we're coming through and I've had aconversation with Co. Workers of mine will peers and the conversations willhave with me. It's like. Oh g vise, doing all these things and it's like, Ifeel like I should be doing more and I'm like no don't like it's like justhonestly. Just like beat like be yourself. I think that that's that'spart of being a guess, part of branding, because there is the linked in socialbranding and what not, and because, by the way there are downsides to it. NotIn we want to get rail about it. There are some doubt sides to it. What arethe top of your head? Like come just a cup. I think, like the bigger that yourprofile gets for whatever reason it's like there can be a target on your backeither one of them just talk on your back like and yeah so like so, and Ithink the reason why I could be just because it's I feel like I have to dothese things. I don't think I can do these things and all of a suddenthere's just insecurity that might take place, and this happened for meactually before I started really like posting on Lindon. I said the story ofa Gillian Times, but there is somebody that I really respect and really remoteadmired. Now, where I looked at their profile and they were saying all thethings that I wanted to say that I never said, and they were getting somuch the for it. I think there was that moment where I was like emeer drivingout to my grandparents. I see what I'm driving out to my grandparents Mirroon,but I'm Straam, grandparents house and I was like you know what this feelingthat I feel right now is jealousy like I'm legitimately jealous right now, andI don't want to be jealous so like what you like. Where is this coming from,and I think I just recognized I'm like right, listen, Gabrielle! Are youreally expecting for somebody else to dim their white just because youhaven't figured out how to turn yours on like that makes no sense right, butnow for me I I now like making blanket statements like for me. I've had to doa lot of personal work to even get to that place. Where I can start toquestion, why am I feeling jealous? I don't wantto feel jealous. What do I need to do to not be jealous? What is a ship thatI need to make, and so for me, I realize a ship was rather than lookingat what this person is doing and what an internalizing, what I'm not doing asI can't do it. I have an opportune, like I'm a learner right, that's mystrength. I'm going to learn from this person, I'm going to look at theirthings, I'm going to look at their entire. I I've done Nicky Ivy, Sera,Brazier Right, like I've gone back years in their linked in profile. I'mlike Oh Dat. I was like what they're doing or what they were doing like iswhat I'm doing now like they had to start from somewhere. So like. Let melet me just practic compression, so I don't know that everybody recognizeslike it takes a lot of work like it's one of lot. It's a lot of friggin work.It doesn't happen overnight. I know. From my end, I get people who were like.Oh Hey, you're, more you're, more invested in your in your brand than youare, and let's say your work when that's absolutely not the case, so Ithink there can e times where there can be Ogbot, st the brand and they're notactually taking me seriously as a professional, so that to me wow, thenhow ol and I've heard this from other folkslike to work not covers with friends of mine who started becoming an influencerin their own thing and so an they got a lot of shade honestly at work. So theystarted to not be taken US seriously. So I think that there is a piece oflike I don't know that, like every anybody and everybody should be thateveryone needs to build a brand. I think that other other things I thinkabout for a brand are when people think of your name, whether you're on Lintonor not. What do they experience? What's the feeling that they associate withyou? Are you trust worthy? Are you reliable? Are you somebody with areally strong character? Are you someone who is a really hard work? Areally strong work ethic right, so when you're, like thinking about yourreference, is your reference somebody...

...who's going to requisit your brand verywell, despite the fact that you might not have any followers on linked on whocares? But it's like what do people come to expect from you when they mayhear your name like that to us like simply what brand is we went on ajourney, so we went, you did yeh a yeah, but to the earlier point that'sthe piece is like brand is bigger than just social media present. So it's likeyou know when we bring it back home, that's kind of the underlying theme, soyeah and I think, like what you just experienced here very much speaks toalso the women in Sales Cubren like Gabrielle, and I don't see perfectly Ito e on so many things, and it doesn't mean that we're like you're wrong. LikeI don't agree, we are going to have different opinions and it would be soboring if we went to every conversation and had the exact same opinion andthings like there wouldn't be interesting, and so I like that, I likehearing her side on things I like here, you know I like talking about my side.I like hearing some other people's side. This totally different devotes of USsometimes- and I think, like that's the piece when I think of like theinclusive and for sales teams in the future. Like that's the corpes TAT'smissing, is it's not just like representation from people fromdifferent groups? It's also like that ability to have live. Differentexperiences have different ideas, different understandings of differentthings and then be able to come together and realize like. Oh, I wantto take a little bit of that. This makes sense, like I keep a little piton,my own old mash, it all together and we have a better SAS team. So as if we'reever to re brand, you have to do. I don't even want to use the worddiversity but like I think that there is there's something really curiousabout like how engaging a conversation can be. We even have so many differentpoints of view exist at the exact same moment. It should be like the CO existbumper sticker would ye like like that, would be our swag made im like t o T. sometimes I thinkthere is yeah, but there's that piece there of. I think there was like onenight or like one morning. I forgot was he about to go to bed or a Araoua likewaking up in the morning, and I was like you know what it is Alex andreally respect you. You know like, as I really you know, I really accept youand I like yeah. I accept you. I respect you and like just be like youknow, she's had an experience and for her that experience is true and it'sthe same thing for me and it's the same thing for other people and this group,and so like the more that I think we can share the more of an opportunity.We actually have to connect more deeply. So you do have the sense of communitylike or hey like it might be more big and more expensive, and for me I stillfeel like I get to have that like deep connection that meaningful under, likeunder the hood top right, where I used the word intimacy the other day andshe's like be easy, like not the physical kind, yea 'll, we just did discussion thatwas LG Kia plus in sales and like to your point, it's audio. Only multiplepeople tried, like you, could tell your, including myself, including Gabrielle.It was like deeply dug deeply heard some like really tough stories thatwere hard to hear, but also like receive some incredible messages. Afterlike it was just this really beautiful and like that's where I get to whereI'm like. I wasn't embarrassed in that context of like crying on a speakerphone like I, I felt zero embarrassment and, if someone later were to ever, sayanything to me and be like how embarrassing that's on professional,like that's on professional, that you didn't cry on that session. So, oh myGosh, a Saturday that let me yether's that piece to where, likethere is like a vulnerability that that exists within this two or we are bothputting ourselves out there. We also are acknowledging that, like otherpeople are putting themselves out there and bringing their stories to us, andso there's also this kind of like responsibility piece to keep this asafe environment to to be mindful of everybody. That's sharing and also toyou know, a responsibility to help bring these people together and sothink, there's almost like this healing co, but I don't know, there's just alot. It's a lot of different yeah. All in one is a fit, is cool and I think,like thinking about last year, like the last eighteen ish months right thispande like so much you know we had racial. The justice broad at centerstage were the Panamic we're working from all mental hell, like all thesethings got brought up, and I think I realized that I live in, like liberaltech bubble in Seattle, and so I may be delusional and it feels like it'sbecoming more normal for people to have really vulnerable conversations at workand to talk about, like you know things in their real life that are happeningin the quote workplace that would have been like taboo before even or exactfor, like. I have never thought I D be talking about race relations and acompany all hands here we are, do you think? That's that's here to day orpassingtrend or I don't know what do... think? I hope so I mean a lot ofpeople put their stuff out there. Now, like a lot of people have openly talkedabout mental health, I'm more so fear for the company. That would try to usethat as kind of like backlash against that person for sharing something likethat, because that would be unacceptable, but I think, like yeah, Ithink there's this piece of I don't even know. What's it called it's like,we all went through a global trauma simultaneously, as in like as an entirepeople, so everybody had kind of like a like. I don't know anybody that lastyear was like. I had a great year and I feel, like my mental health, wentthrough the roof like e, I'm good things are great thriving in a lot ofself work, a lot of introspection, and I think, if that comes in this, solowering peace. It's like Hey, I'm trying to work on myself, I'm going toput myself out there more. I'm Meno like try to figure out like how to getbetter and in that like connect with others, and I think like that and a oitself kind of like Lord that barrier. So I think these topics, like mentalhealth, like racial and justice, like Agis, is a big topic right now that isgoing to start coming up more and more like we have a lot of jobs open insales right now and a lot of folks in the F Plus Age, backet who're, notgetting this role Omano, they are available. So I think there's a lot oflike these, these different areas that we should talk more about and I'm gladthat we kind of open he andor box, and I guess to answer your question. No, Idon't see us going backwards because you look at the up and cominggeneration like there. They are fully focused on like going to companies thatshare have a share value system. They care about these eves. So I'm reallyexcited for that generation to continue to rise up, because I think they'regoing to force some of this into the light, and some of this we kind ofhidden from as a corporate world and we've been able to turn a blind eye toyou and it's not going to be the case moving forward. It's just not going tobe acceptable to the people that are going to be coming into the work forforce in the people they already hear. So I think it's here to stay and I'mI'm excited about the regulation or like that. I like to do a I think, like I did say we were talkingabout predictions and so to build upon that. Let me ask you like what do youthink, like things that are going to Chaman? For starters, work from homewas like a no no for like sales of element teams forever, like Oh, my God,you can't even no body will work and then we were forced into it and itseems like it worked out. Okay, I don't know what else. What do you for seehappening with work requirements in general is the rest of two thousand andtwenty and moving into o thousand twenty one. Oh, this is one we're goingto conflict. An okay like I love Er, so I think it's different like I am. Youknow almost to a decade and my sales player as an individual contribuer likeI know what my work day looks like, and I know how to organize my calendar. Ihave like the skill said to you that, and I have like a very specific systemso for me, I think going back five days a week. Isn't an option like. I don'tthink that I would necessarily do that, but I also want to point out that thecompanies that I've worked with over the years have been more of start up,so we don't have like necessarily big team to get back together with, if youdon't have like a huge sales for to kind of like come back together andhave that sheer camaraderie. So I think you know first, many of us is going tobe some kind of high bray approach. I think that's more realistic is thatit's like a three days out two days in kind of thing, and we have a little bitmore flexibility. I would love to think that we're going to test out there fora gay work we here in the US, I think, we'll see you know we always we alwaysget the trickle down effective of Salon Valley, so I mean we'll see whathappens but but yeah I mean. I think that there is going to be thiscomponent, where people have now kind of you know whatever analogy what ityou want to use, but they tasted gold and like now they don't want silver. Soit's like now we kind of want to get back to you. It's like we want to keepsome aspect of what we've had, but I also think there is a piece wherepeople are longing to human coaction and especially if you're someone thatwas like single or living alone during the last year, like that, could havebeen a very painful time, for I know that it was Soroee, and so I think thatthere is a piece where we will probably seek out different ways to connect withone another, and I think that's why we're seeing these communities emergedso heavily right now. You know specifically for this: The seals textbase but you're, seeing this emergence of these communities, like we've neverseen in previous years, and I think it's for that reason because it's likewe still want to be connected, but maybe the medium has changed a littlebit so I'll be curious to see what it looks like, but I think that the hybridapproach will probably be here- The stead, I don't think, there's anyconflicts that fully on it was waiting for the aid I feel like you could haveLa. I don't know if we have a cool office or not, I've never been insideof it, not the Maher's. My thought is, I meanwhat brook was sharing of, especially between the SD, like the the SalesDevelopment Organization. I there was...'s like you, you couldn't talk aboutan sure working from home they're like no like what do they want to do? Arethey just like slack it off, or so it's like. I there there it's like this overemphasis on. We have to see people in the office who have to have the culturein the office and I will say, like I'm, itching, to get into an office, andit's not even so much of like I want to like work in the office, but there I'vehad an opportunity to do a happy hour with some other gongs ters who are inthe Chicago land area, and I was like I missed. The Camaraderie like these arenot even people that I'm working with on a day to day basis, but just thefact that their people we get along. We are all seem to be like working for thesame thing, but also like we just get along with people were invested in eachother as people we can go and have a drink and meet each other Seifi cat,others right so there's that, like socialization, that happens herespeaking, that's my dog, valable yeah, so on him or her by a yeah, very cutethat that to me is like those are, the kind of interactions and engagementsthat I miss. I think, just more. More importantly, I think is here to stay asour options all right. That's that's what I think it is yea, the HybridWillie, if you're the kind of person who wants to go in five days a week, sowhether you're like single or or married, or whatever I mean, there'ssome people who are married, who don't want to be at home rether like wait aminute. I did not marry this person to be with them twenty four hours a day.So now it's yes, so I think it's just workor employers really having to be intentional andawful about. How do we keep our employees engaged? And I think, onceupon a time, engagement looks like buying Onch, and you know so: yeahbuying, launch and catering and having the drinks and snacks in the cooloffice and all these like purps those like fun things, but it's probably be alot more like hey. What does? How do we support our employees? Mental Health,like? Does that mean investing born resources? Let's say like modern health,for example, or like people really want to develop and grow in their careers?Do we give them more access to coaching and what not, like all the money thatwe were spending on physical locations? Can that be realitates mething? That'sgoing to be that much more meaningful and significant for folks. So I thinkthere is this piece of or yeah like what does engagement mean, I think,like in a covin environment, we had to rethink what does engagement mean? Whatdoes it look like and how do we get there, and so that then reasonopportunity for companies to go all right? Well in a world where we can goback tin, the office like yeah, like what does engagement mean an maybe itjust means the fact that people have a choice as to like where they're goingto work and when they're going to work there yeah- and I think, like we'retalking about like a like engagement, is changing like for sure on theemployees site, but also the way we get in touch with their prospects. Like you,two are extra prospectors I mean you built a network. You built thiscommunity, you do it for a living. So obviously, you know what you're doingand haters have been saying: the Colt Hall is dead for I now how long?Definitely as long as I'm beside don't, I know it's so real. It's happening,you don't call your right. You're right, it is dead, is just be like t forever, Sago of likesales like Oh yeah, boo, cool coing, but it works obviously really well. Sowhat do you think like the next Cape Goat, like the next thing that peoplesay doesn't work, but it totally does might be sales developments, weirdquestion: In general, men like a whole department. I've heard listen, so thisis probably the one part where Alex a I like if we were ever to get into aflight, but his be the one so good. On my it's with you, we're going to show upat a podcast right. I no it's not that that it's not that at all. So I thinkthere was. There was a no because there was a there was a pole and it's likewho has a toughest job s D or a it's not so much like. What's the new scapego, I think it's more so like. What's the new sales verse Marketing AlignmentYeah, I I standa I'm like listen y'all like we're all the same team. Yes, bothof our jobs can freaking sot e o ar in different really hard so like, let's just let's just keep it.I'm sorry when I agrees kwanso I at I've also been I've also been a part ofSer orgs, and I think this is part like why I get the way that I get about.This is where sales development was the scape goat right and you have newleader to come in they're like or reason we're not doing well is becauseSARS don't know how to do their job and we are more junior or they don't knowhow to talk to people they're fresh out of college. They make up all of the butand then people end up losing their jobs for real for real. So, like I thinkit's that to me is why I say like who's the new scape goat, like as I've seenit happen a Bagillian Times, I'm like...

I'm just going to say, salesdevelopment as a whole is like the escape goat. I would not disagree with that. I thinkwhere we conflict is on certain aspects like they're, like I'm, in a full cyclesales role. I do my own prospecting. I got my own meetings. I rode my ownDamas. A close man deals like I'm in a very heavy role, but I'm also in acertain an organization where that will make sense. I don't think for everyorganization. I don't think it doesn't make sense for every organization tohave or not to have a sales development team. So I think for Gong. It makes alot of sense to have a sales fellor. I've, no issue with that. I would agreethat I did lead it, so I wasn't headed up an SDR team previously, and so Ivery much was on the receiving end of that, which was ironic because yeahthere was a lot of tension coming from the side, and then I came to that world.So I'm like what I so it was it interesting to be in the middle of it,because I was like I've lived in both world, so it was very fascinating forme and it did feel very familiar to that marketing versus kind of salesyeah most. The other thing that I think is kind of the next thing as Gabrielthat I would say that people are going to pot on is the social side like thesocial prospecting, social branding, there's a lot of people. I rememberthere was like this, a ward that came out for top sales people whatever- andI remember someone like went through and commented on every post like showme you're, like show me your W to. I want to see what you make you knowwhatever and my go even meet and I was in on too much time yeah, but I was like nobody's claimingthat this this was like a separate salary for them by any need. So it'slike so interesting, so I do think. There's this peace around, like maybe amisunderstanding of why some people are doing some of that and a prospectingwork scerce, social via social, and so I think that that's going to be likethe newer one is there's a lot of people that are usually what happens isthe one area that people are most uncomfortable with is the one that theytend to then I, as the the thing, that's not working, so if that salesdevelopment, if that's full calling social is scary, because the coldcalling you don't see the person's face, so you have a kind of a hidden lake.Social is scary because you're prospecting, they can see your face.They get click your company. They could afford your message to your vp if theywanted to. So it isn't a very like scary, real element about that, and soI think that that's kind of the underlying reason that we see verysimilar phenomena and told calling people you know unless you're sick,like me and and actually enjoy Colcothar, are a lot of people don'tand so they're like. Oh, it doesn't work like. Let me make sure thateverybody knows this and let this be a resounding message. So then I don'thave to do the full time, because it's a waste of time, so I'm with Arielwhere I'm like Yeah Col calling doesn't work, but I'm like setting like ninetyfive percent of my meetings be a cold tall. So I'm, like you, know very no. Iwas yeah. I was yeah, I'm like I cold color, that that was it like. That'show I try now it's not for everyone right, but I think as it's you know Ilike. If you do back to your strike, is I was like? Oh, hey, cold calling isdead and I go listen to a vigilia calls all the time, and so typically thepeople who respond the most and the most like adverse way to the raps. I'mlike you know these are probably not the right people to talk to to beginwith right. So I not the right, my admint sales people who have inflatedtitles and can't do nothing with that title and then you call them andthey're like you're, probably the thirtieth person who's called them thatday and they had a displayin for thirty a time I have no power right and his dad is like. I just have anappropriate the idol, sir or Ma'am right yeah. I don't that. That's like that'sthe way that I approach the haters, I'm just like I alike, consider the source right right. I think you have a greatpoint Alex en of, like you know, we're all scared in all capacities of thingsthat we don't understand or that like seeing illusive to us, so I guess mighttake away from this is like, if there's a prospecting strategy that I'm like onthe fence with the like O. No, it's probably good son that I should atleast try it just check it out. Yeah videos, videos that one for me Ye anTavies, the one that where I'm like I'm uncomfortable so are so trees like wedid. We did a sentine prospecting if people are doing back flips and playinga guitar and, Oh my God, Super Dry, so dry Leoh. I didn't get the memo that Isupposed to be funny. I'm sure you degrade. I definitelyappreciate both of your insights. I think we're just about a time I want tomake sure I can talk to you both all night but I'll. Let you get back toyour evenings, but if folks want to get in touch with you, I some if yourwisdom, Drt Club House, where might...

...they find you? Yes, so definitelyfollow. Gabrielle Myself, connect with us on Lindon. We love getting justlittle messages and then also we have a lemon in sales top linkedin page nowthat you can follow will be posting all of our upcoming events and we do hostevents from two to four PM central time. Every Saturday on club house say tunebecause there may be some new events coming out very soon and then on clubhouse. We are also under the same name, woman in Sales Club. So you can followthe club. You can get the event updates that way as well and yeah. You can findus one way or another, and we look forward to talking to you. I love itall right, Alan Modar, Gabriel, Blackwell and or GB fin on Linkedin. Thank you so much foryou and a lovely thing finish or to this was another episode of the SalesEngagemen podcast to help this get in front of more eyes and ears. Pleaseleave us a shining five star review, join us at sales engagement for you.Episodes resources in the book on sales engagement to get the most out of yoursales engagement strategy, make sure to check out outreach down io the leadingsales and feature and platform see you on the next episode. A.

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