The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 8 months ago

Hunting Whales? How to Multithread into Enterprise Deals


Most of the time, you need to engage multiple stakeholders to get a deal across the line, so relying on a single internal champion just isn’t cutting it anymore.

Solutions are growing in complexity and budgets continue to become more restrictive. Which means decisions are made unilaterally. This is especially true for enterprise deals.

So, how do you identify the right stakeholders and their priorities in order to close more deals?

Join us as we hear from Jamal and Andrew about:

  • How to discover the priorities of each stakeholder in an enterprise deal
  • How to tailor your demo conversations to the priorities of each stakeholder
  • How to read 10-K reports and analyze quarterly analyst calls

More information about Jamal Reimer and Andrew Mewborn and today’s topics:

For more engaging sales conversations, follow The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, our website, or anywhere you get podcasts.

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast. This podcast is brought to you by outreach, the leading sales engagement platform, and they just launched outreach on outreach, the place to learn how outreach well does outreach? Learn how the team follows up with every lead in record time after virtual events and turns them into revenue. You can also see how outreach runs account based plays, manages reps and so much more using their own sales engagement platform. Everything is backed by data pulled from outreach processes and customer base. When you're done, you'll be able to do it as good as they do. Had to outreach thato on outreach to see what they have going on. Now let's get into today's episode. My Name is Katie Ray. I am the community engagement manager for sales hackers. So today we are talking all things enterprise, really focusing in on multi threaded approaches, sealing the deal, you name it. So I'm going to let Jamal introduce himself, then Andrew, and then we're going to get started. Ready for me? They yeah, like there we go before. Yeah, so I'm Jamal, Jamal rhymer. I live in southern Sweden. I'm a longtime individual contributor. I've been selling software and services and tech for nineteen years and I was at Oracle for about thirteen years and I just left this summer and since then I'm out on my own and my main thing is helping coach enterprise sellers and how to sell really large deals. And hello everyone. I'm under me born. I'm going to pull early employee over to outreach that I oh and for about the fat past five years or so been working with hundreds of organizations on their sales process, on sales tactics and working with great sales individual contributors like Jamal here, as well as great sales leader. So excited to get into the multi threading approach today and give Y'all some great nuggets to take home with you wherever you are. So cool. Let's get into a Katie Andrew all, let you start asking Jamal some great questions. Perfect, let's do so. One are the three or four takeaways that everyone's going to learn today? Again, the the holistic topic here is going to be multi threading and to enterprise accounts. But here's the takeaways want to give you all today. So the first how to discover priorities of each stakeholder in an enterprise deal. Okay. Secondly, how do we how do we tailor demo conversations to the priorities of each stakeholder and your in in your enterprise deals? Third How do we re K, report and analyze quarterly analyst calls? Jamal, who is on the line as well, is the guru on this. So cannot wait for that part. And then, lastly, the most the most common multithreading mistakes and how to avoid them. So we'll go ahead and get into those topics today. Man, why don't we go ahead and get started and you know, let's start from the basics. Jamal, want to hear from you. What does it mean a multi thread and organization and why should people be multi threaded in these enterprise deals? So multi threading and in any selling situation, in any BEDB situation, basically means having more than one contact within an account. So many of us have lots of accounts and were smiling and dialing and going through the are prospecting process. And you know, there's a lot of depending on your role, in the size and volume of the signs of your territory, in the the volume of outbound that you're doing you're going to get a lot of rejection and most of us, when we finally get somebody who talked to us, we just loved to hold onto that relationship and just nurture it like it's, you know, God, God's gift to my sales process, which is exactly the opposite of expanding across an organization to talk with lots of stakeholders. So, in short, multi threading means to be engaged with multiple steadholders within an account. And let's get into the nuts and bolts here, Jim. Also, where do you up start one...

...multi threading it to enterprise deal. Let's say I know I'm a wrapper, right, I know I need to have marketing, I know I need to have sales, I know I need to have sales, enable man, sales development it. All these folks like when do I start that process? Exactly, hi, I start from the first call. I mean, should we just see? We just keet into the meat, like just get it into, get into the me. Yeah, just get write. So my experience with multi threading and accounts actually started with my first selling experience, which was selling books door to door. In College. I used to sell bookstore door. There was this, there was these study guides and there was a bunch of college kids with only people who sold the books, college kids every summer and my first summer I absolutely sucked. After working thirteen weeks, eighty hours a week, I brought home twenty two hundreds. I absolutely sucked at selling and the the city. The experience was so hard. I was I was terrified of it. So I had to come back to do it again. So I couldn't leave something that terrifying in my life, just giving me nightmares every night. So I tackled it again, but this time my student manager had me follow someone who was an awesome, awesome scales Rep. so I'm just standing there while they're going to the door and they're that, you know, they're going through their approach to the Mrs Jones is, we always say, Mrs Jones, opens the door and he immediately launches into hey, I'm sewing so from this university and I'm talking with all the families in this neighborhood about they set of study guys that every body's going to be using. And he starts rolling off all these names of all the families and all the kids, names of everybody on the street, everybody in the neighborhood, everybody in the the the kids of the families class and all of a sudden this this woman just has come on in. You know, she just had to know what was going on that all of her friends and neighbors and, you know, community members were a part of. And I just took that approach and I brought it into prospecting in the BB scenario. So what I do is, you know, if I'm calling it. Hey, Andrew, I'm Jamal, I'm from Oracle and I sell software and I'm not even sure if you're the right person to talk with, but I'm having conversations with a lot of your colleagues about x business topic. I don't talk about products, I don't talk about features or functions, I don't even talk about software, talking about x business issue, like Soanso and so and so, and I name all the people who have done research in Linkedin, who are who are around them, and that does a number of things right off the bat. Number one, it immediately lets them know that I'm already loosen the account and having conversations, and so it absolutely stops the the dreaded oh my Gosh, now I've talked to this guy for an enough times. I need to get higher in the account. But Man am I going to tick him off if I go over his head. It completely eliminates that because from the first conversation they already know that you you know who's who in the zoo and you've done your research and maybe you're even talking to him already. So I don't want to go on too long, but you asked me when do you start multi threading in an account, and my response is immediately upon the first call and in every call. So I've got a question for you, Jamal. Why does that matter? Why? Why do we it in the extra work to try and with fifteen people for only eight of them may have somewhat of a say, versus just trying to go straight to the see so or whatever? Well, there's a lot of value in getting straight to somebody who's very senior, but oftentimes if you're going in cold, or relatively cold, you're going to have one shot with that senior stakeholder. You got to make it count. So you got to do your homework. Now there's different types of homework. You can do homework on the individual you can do homework on the technical landscape.

If you need to know that to tell your story better. You you know, there's lots of contextual discovery that should be done to take that one shot with the SE. So, but let's say you're let's say you're in a sale cycle and your main contact is one person and maybe it's not the see. So, if it is or if it isn't, what you're doing is you are creating one of those in Indiana Jones, that kind of tight rope bridge, you know, between two mountains and it's like one way to get from where you are to where you're trying to go. And all it takes is to snip two chords and that whole bridge is gone and you're there's no way you're crossing that ravine. Meanwhile, while you're while you're multi threaded, you basically got multiple bridges to get across the river. We've got a message here from Shannon. So she's recently had to make this switch from a BDR that's really dealing with Sanbam and market to enterprise and so really focusing on this multi threaded approach. But what she seems to be struggling as how do you figure out who are the right people's to talk to? You know, she knows her ICP, she knows that hype of buyers she wants. But how do you know? You know who you're going to be spending this time with instead of just, you know, talking to five gatekeepers. Do you talk with the gatekeeper, the network Admin, IIC director? How do you? How do you figure out which ones to talk to? Well, firstly, whenever speaking with anyone within an account, just just be a human being. Yeah, no, don't be a smiler and dialer and don't have any kind of affect in your voice or you're trying to pump them up and be super duper friendly. Just be a normal human being. The point is just be sincere and authentic. Yeah, and as you're being sincere and authentic, yess, I'm going through what I'm trying to convey to the person you know. So I would say, Hey, you know, Katie, I work at Oracle. I sell software. The software deals with this kind of area and you know, you might be the right person to talk about this or not, because I'm having conversations with other but it's really dealing with X, Y Z business issue and if that touches your world, I would really love to get your input. On just a couple of things, like and then I start having a business I ask him about you know, what's it like for you when you're trying to that at the NA? Is that harder? EA, easy, your in and and I start to ask them what's their work life like? Yeah, if they respond and they know what the heck I'm talking about and they can have a relevant response, then we have a dialog and as we do, I'm just looking for can we even help this person? And along the way in the conversation I start to talk about okay, so, if this is the issue that you face in this business process, are you the only one? Does it hit others? You know, okay it. Now we're talking about a team. Who does that team roll up to? Who's really going to have the WHO's going to care enough about this issue and the ability to fix it? Yeah, that's it. And you're just having a normal conversation, but you're just always looking. So, if this is an issue, how what's the scope of it and where does it roll up to? And Yeah, and then I oftentime I give a lot of power to them, or at least so it feels, because I'm like, what do you think we should do. I mean scale a one to ten. How much of an issue is this? And if it's above a five, I'm like, okay, well, maybe we should have some more conversations and maybe get some other folks. Of all, I really loved your little verbiage on ability to fix it, because you're using fire conversation terms and people don't want to say no, I can't fix it right like that's I don't want to say I can't fix it. So I really love that little nugget. How does this work during an our P in your you know kind...

...of stronghold into just dealing with procurement? What would you suggest with that? It's a tough spot. That's why I'm a big fan of either not responding to urfps or I do. I do push back on RFPS. So if I get an RP and we have a read and I go through the with, you know, either my pre sales person or some part of my team, and if it doesn't look like something that's absolutely tailored for us, I'll basically work with the team to give me the AMMO that I need to go back to the customer and say, you know, I can tell you spend a lot of time on this RFP. But if you're trying what I what it looks like is you're trying to achieve X. is that right? And if that's right, I say I don't think we can help you because we're not going to help we would achieve x a very different way and we don't even think x is the right thing for you. It's probably more like why and I haven't earned the right to really kind of go through this. I'm happy to do it if you want to go over. I'm thank you for bringing this to us, but we're not going to respond with this RP as it is. Yeah, that's really good, interesting and I want to kind of hit on a point that Shannon on her question that she asked earlier to is is, Shannon, as you're moving to that BDR, from that Dr Role to the enterprise role, one thing to look at to is, you know, look at how previous deals were done in the past. Ask other reps on the enterprise side and look at their mutual action plants that they use. How did they get the deal done? Who is involved and in part of that process you're going to make some hypothesies on on who actually should be involved in the process on there and right, and they this all goes back to discovering what Jamal was saying. You know, when you have those initial conversations with particular stakeholder's right, maybe it's the first person you're meeting within that account collaborating with them, and ask hey, it looks like Johnny, Sally and Sarah would be involved in this process at some point. Am I write and that or, you know, are they working on other projects that that have nothing to do with, you know, what you're trying to solve. And again, if we want to go into that, Alex Link that article here in the chat. But that all comes down to doing your homework beforehand right and making an assumption or hypothesis on who exactly need to be involved based on how deals have been done in the past. Right. So if you look like at a sales platform, if any of you are all selling sales tech or some type of Martech here, you maybe will involve marketing, sales, enable man to it and these other departments. So if that's how deals have been done in the past and don't reinvent the wheel, or I utilize those same departments and when you're trying to get into these accounts and in those initial conversations and do your homework and knowing who those people might be specifically too. So just wanted to call that out there. That's really good point. We've got a question here from Melissa. This is actually really interesting and I love I love her response as maybe an overly polite Canadian problem, but what are your strategies for multithreading but not wanting to step on the toes root champion? For example, if we do a demo in the CMO attends and is interested, how do you approach setting up a conversation with the CMO without offending your champion? So I'm assuming she means the champion is separate from the CMO in this. Do you cut them out to you allow them to be a part of that conversation? What do you do with them? One thing that works for me is it's walking a balance between giving a lot of power and choice and voice to all customer stakeholders as well as trying to guide the conversation in a direction that you know is right for them. So in this example, if I had kind of the number one and number two in the room and the number two is a person that set it up at number one, who's really holding the keys to the kingdom. I would basically in that meeting, engage both of them in the dialog. And so you know, you asked number two question, you asked number one question, and when I would get to the number one I would basically say something like well, it sounds... you're really engaged in this and it sounds like you've got a lot of opinions. What's the right way to work with you to kind of work through all that stuff? We can do some of it here, but we won't get twenty minutes left. Should we set up some next steps? Do you want to? You know, traine emails what you want to do and I leave it to them and when they state what they want to do, which links me to them, number two really can't say anything and it's just a natural part of the conversation. As sound out of that. If you do have a CMO that attends, I would bring in your Cmo for that meeting as well. Right see others to give their perspective and as part of the agenda, what I would set up is in the agenda. I'd say look, Hey, I have my cmo on the line here and if you if you were able to get your CMO on the line there. And as a next step here, typically what we do is set up a separate conversation just between my cmi and your Cmo to give you some level of value in our perspective on our product or this business issue. Or have they how they've handled in the past? So leveraging your CMO to continue the conversation with that CMO, because CMO executives like to speak to other executives, right. I mean it's much easier for them to continue that conversation with other executives. Just to be straightforward here, like if you get them on the line once, you emailing them and getting on the line again, it's going to be a very tough so, you know, leveraging your CMO to build that relationship. And again that's part of multi threading, right, is connecting sea level executives at your organization to see level executives at other organizations. I actually learn a lot of this from Jamal, so shout out to Jamal and his masterclass on that one. But that has been very successful there and again, if you do, for have those executives join your meeting, for sure, for sure for sure get your executives of bold as well. Some of you maybe like freaking out right now because I remember the first time, but I talked my vp of sales and I said, look, I am prospecting the other VPS with this, with this, I could resonate with you. What are your thoughts? And he was like, look, if you get a call and it's with someone really high up, just ask me. I'll fly out for the customer meeting. So some of you this could be the first time you're hearing this. Ask Your higher exact if you have a good relationship, and even if you don't, ask them, because many of them one want to be able to do something like that and see the process and be a part of that relationship. But exactly what Andrew said, a lot of you know above the line exacts. They want to talk with other exacts and so making that relationship and it's really great net working anyways. So don't be afraid to ask is a lot of times you'll probably get some really good responses. So let's see, we've got another question. Oh my gosh, I know we're not really stick into the script today, so welcome to Mr Todes wild ride here. So Jamal. Another question we have if the stakeholder you have an initial discussion with typically has an aversion to what you're selling because their job may be harder as a result of buying it. Oh, I love this. This is a great Jason. It's very valid. And so let's just be clear. There's no magic bullet and sometimes you're just kind of stuck and they're going to sour the conversation and make things difficult because your solution is a risk to them in some way. That sometimes that's just kind of where it's at. But in the approach that I use, because I'm immediately mentioning other people, I'm signaling that, Hey, I'm happy to talk to you, but you're not the only person I'm talking to, and so immediately they understand that I'm having an institutional conversation. I don't not only this this one on one. So mentally it has either erased or highly reduced any pushback that I get when I speak with others anyway, and I try to make the the canvassing of at least several stakeholders rather quick so that I can actually have multiple people to... if one of them goes sour or goes dark or, you know, starts to make trouble. I've got these others to kind of balance out the conversation. And you know Andrew's great point about using executives. It's like, I don't know if you anybody ever watched like the original star Trek, but there was, there was an episode or two. You know, chess, as we know at the game of chess is a two dimensional game, rights on a flat board, but in a couple of star wars episodes they had this three dimensional chess. There was like two or three boards on top of each other and you could move the piece from here to here and all stuff. When you introduce I call it executive whispering, if you start to introduce different levels of executives, both on your side and there's that's like uber multi threading. And then some one person who is feeling a threat or is in some way down on what you do is going to be mitigated by all these other developing relationships from all these other stakeholders. They're like yeah, I want to get rid of those people that that other woman has because they're just a drag on our bottom line. We don't need the people who we can get tech to do the same thing. Interesting, Andrew, I'm sure you've you've probably had to face this as well. Yeah, absolutely. I would say in every deal there's, you know, at least large oil, there's going to be someone that is not going to be happy with with what's going on. Right. So in that case there's a you know, this is the importance of multi threading, right, is not relying on one single person that maybe the blocker or may you know, find it harder, their job harder with your system. But I think one perspective here is again bringing and someone at that person's level that can talk through the system and hopefully make them feel more comfortable about what it really is like to integrate this system and why it's low cost of ownership overall. On there and and also, you know, relying on your champion or someone that's an influence or to help get in that person's ear to help them understand like hey, this is the priority of the business, not the priority of, you know, what you want to do today or tomorrow. Right. So, at the end of the day, that going back to the beginning here in why discovery is so important. We always talked about discovery. I that's why it's important understand and the business priorities right like that is going to triumph what anyone cares about how hard it is to flip a knob or flip the switch on your product. Right, if the business priorities to you know, create a Delta between X, Y and Z and an increase in you know, ABC, whatever it may be, that's what you can go back and rely on it again. That comes back to, you know, that multi threading approach, understanding priorities of multiple stakeholders and the deal. We've got another question. I'm speaking with other people at your organization. When we say that, are we being true? I know that there's definitely some sales leaders out there that say, Oh, well, it's really you know, it's fine. It's not fine, right. What how do you respond to that, if if you are being false in it, or do you even go through that approach? Well, so the way that I the way that I read the question is really, Hey, in your first call, when you haven't talk with anybody else yet, what do you say? So what I say is, Hey, Katie, I'm joll on for morecal. I sell software. It does this kind of stuff and I've got a whole list of people that I'm going to be calling to have this conversation within you're the first one. Now. I don't know if you face these issues or not, but I wanted to get your input on it and then we can dive into the conversation. So you always want to be truthful. You know, you don't want to be anything else but just naming all of the people put them on notice that you know who the players are and and you you're not kind of driving your truck into one garage into which...'re going to get stuck. You know you're out on kind of this this open roadway. M Yeah, I've seen it work. To Jamal, to build on that, we did a podcast recently with Tom Wentworth. He's a CML record of future and in talking with him I said, you know, Tom when someone you're going through buying cycle yourself like you, what keeps you engaged? And he goes you know, it keeps me engaged is knowing that my fellow CMOS at other companies are using the your same product or interested in your same product, because I am doing myself a disservice to my business if I am not using what other top companies are using themselves. So when it goes to multi thread, everyone like yeah, you can multi turn your organization, but to get that conversation and going back to that, like, you know, it's leveraging that Fomo right and understanding that, hey, people at the exact level that you're speaking to, they all want to understand when, e. everyone else is doing right, don't you? We all where. That's why we're on this call, right, we don't. We want to understand what other account executive is, what other ICS are doing. So, you know, when it comes down to that, like also, you know, leveraging names of folks at those people may be interested in. Right, that's also a way to go about that situation too. Well, let let's be clear. You're adding a new layer to multi threading by bringing and stakeholders from other crostomers. And when you find yourself in a market where you have a community of your customers, you just this nearing you that you just laid out, or Semos, right, when you have that community of Cmos, you can absolutely leverage it, because the phone was absolutely there. I mean I was just in a case last week where I was consulting with the company. We were on the phone with one of their board members because we were going to be doing some executive work with with their network. And Yeah, he was just he was saying how important it is. This this fomo is is so real. So there was a company who got a lot of traction around one product and everybody use them for that one product and then they started to build these other products and he said, you know, when they came to me that they were building this other product, I was highly skeptical. Skeptical because it was it was a reach from their knowledge base of what they knew how to build, just but I didn't want to miss out because everybody was waiting for this product, so I told my team just go get a POC going just to make sure. So it's just kind of some social proof to add to the idea that, you know, when you can do multithreading within an account, but you can start to use that concept outwardly to the customers and it's hugely affective. So I know we've got a little bit of a limited time. Yard love for us to kind of go into more of what some of these like common multi threading sticks are or jump into the K report in some questions. So what would you like to focus on? First. Yeah, I think something like common multithreading mistakes. Right, and I've done it. I'm sure a lot of folks have done it. Very common. You know, you're going through a deal, your three, six, nine months in, however, and you relied on one person, one department, and the deal starts to go sour and then you say well, we should. Well, who else can we get involved? Right, what other sea level executive would be involved? Would like this right, and it's it's really starting too late on the multi threading process. And this goes back to what Jamal was saying at beginning. Start it early, right. This starts at your first conversation making a half ass of who else should be involved or who you know should be involved. Right in making that assumption and trying to do that from the get go. So, yeah, I think going back to you know, the takeaway here is like starting it too late in the process when the deals going sour. Right, super common mistake. I think,...

...getting to it early and often and trying to multi throated. If you know the departments is should be involved, right, get them involved if you know that's how it was supposed to be done. Don't assume that. You know you can just put it off until later and procrastinate right like. Just go for it now and start that multi threading process in terms of, you know, working with your champion to understand who those people are and coming up with a strategy and heart to approach is conversation with them, whether that's with you yourself're getting your other executives involved to basically help get that conversation on the bugs. Let me let me add to that, Katie. Another mistake is thinking you're doing a good job multi threading when you have three or four connections, but not getting more of your team involved in the muddy multi threading process. So if you go back to the chest analogy, you're never going to win a game of chess if your pawn is the only piece on your side that you're playing against a full team on the other. So your customer has everybody in place, the CEO, the CEFO, the business had, the it guy, the procure a guy, the leave guy, they're all there and if you're the only one, even if you're trying to take them off, take them all on. It's supposed to be. You don't want to be fighting your customer, but you get the analogy, you gotta Bring Your whole team right. You're inviting everybody to a dance. You got to introduce everybody. And so if you think you're doing a good job of multi threading and you are the hub of all the relationships, you're way missing out. Your way missing out, because all these other relationships are super important to to ignite. Yeah, and as something else to add on, that is something very common. You know. See, two is like the conversation stops after your champion brings another stakeholder to say. They bring in a CML, all right, and you bring in your Cmol. They say hi to each other. Hey, I'm a CMOL, your smut to. You know, we're both awesome, exex right, and then after that meeting they never speak again. So I think having not an output of that meeting for O CMOS is also important, and that comes down to briefing your sex before they get out, you know, before they get in that meeting. If you're bringing axextor meeting to meet with other exects on the customer and briefing them, and I have a briefing documents somewhere that I'll put out there. But briefing then I would hey, here's what we are. Next step is or goal for you, Mr Mrs Cmo, at my company, after this meeting, we want you to meet with the CML again, right, and here's how you're going to meet with the CMO again. Here's a strategy we can pitch. Right, Hey, let's talk about like how you increased rol on, you know, in bounce source leads, Yada, Yada, Yada, and alist what you put in place to do that. Right, let's set that up so we can keep the conversation going. All right, and I think where we were we make the mistake again is bring them on the call but then either not having them say anything that adds of any value or not having any action items to go after this, after that call. So, yeah, you got to have those the next steps, right. I mean so many of us, I'm sure I'm not going to make you raise your hands, but I know so many of us, we've always struggled with next steps or we think the calls going so well, so we get incredibly excited. Or maybe that's just me, but I get incredibly excited and I'm like, Oh, it's fine, great, will talk to it, and I'm like he's never going to call me back. How do you communicate the detractors or how do you find the detractors early on and how you turn that around as we begin this relationship in a multi threaded approach? It's a great question. My effort is to so the ideal. You never really reach the ideal, right, id the ideals like perfection, but we can always try to strive towards it. So my ideal situation is to have a oneon one relationship with every stakeholder that's going to be a part of the decision, even if they are a part of like a voting block. They're not like a decision maker, but they're part of like a voting like like a group of users. Right,...

...even if I never get there, I'm going to try. Yeah, if I'm if I'm trying to have a oneon one relationship with every stakeholder, that means that I'm always reaching at hey, Katie, you know we should have it. We meet in meetings but we never meet on one. We should do, you know, ten minutes on zoom next week. What do you think? Andrew, same with you there and through the just a reaching out and, you know, kind of a gut check here. Does this person want to meet with me. You're not. Some folks will just avoid you and then you got to look into are they just super busy? Do they think that this is beneath them, or are they against my cause? Yeah, and then once you get to that next level, you don't want to confront them like hey, with you know, but you don't want to communicate, you know, and just sometimes you got to do a by email if they're not going to respond. But you know, you you want to be forth right. And what I say is, Hey, it looks like we're there's some real buy in or some some momentum growing with this whole concept. But I sense that you're really holding back and maybe you're not seeing any benefits for your job or your role or whatever. And if that's the case, I just would really love to know, because I either you're not being included in the right way and we need your voice. If this is going to work, we're going to need your voice. But if it's not going to work, I really also want to know why, because we have to we have to make that a part of the equation if we're ever going to get to a go, no go decision. And and it's another way to invite an honest dialog, right, and even if they disagree, you're giving them the space to do that in a way that isn't going to escalate. But that's that's an approach I take. Andrew, what do you think? Yeah, I call that out early. Exactly. I call it out early to again, not waiting until we it magically goes away. If Top, if people make an opinion there, typically going to keep that opinion, as we all know, and so the earlier you can address it the better, right, versus going on for nine, twelve months and then way of saying and well, I just hope they change your mind about that. You know thing that they don't like. Right, calling out as soon as possible and just putting it out there. I think it's the as soon as you figure that out. That's the biggest takeaway, I would say, in your approach there, Jamal, and not waiting weeks, days, months, however long, but just trying to get that cleared up as as possible. So I think inquiring minds want to know. What are maybe one or two little pieces of advice that we may not have covered today that you would want to give give to our team that's here to really help either encourage them, remind them, you name it. What does that look like? On the topic of multi threading or yes, it's almost a review because it's start early, because it's like a garden. You got a plant those seeds and then let them grow. It's not like flowers are just gonna show up and you just got to start right away. And so often we don't realize the value of multi threading until it's way too late to make any changes. You know, Andrew said, Andrews talked about starting it too late. I've been selling for nineteen years and I'll still run into situations where I'm single threaded, either because I've gotten lazy or because it hasn't worked right. I've tried and I can really only get one person to really engage, and that's never a good sign. So it's just all always be threading, you know what I mean? It's like you never want to stop. You always got to take the pulse of everybody if you're going to try to drive toward that ideal. So ATC is gone, we've got eight ABT ABC. Then you know there's some fluffy stat out there that is like you know each you know, enterprise deal is that it takes about eight, your name at nine stakeholders to get a deal closed...

...dries. So just looking at something like that, and might be more. I don't know the exact number. It's basically a lot of people are involved today in order to get a deal close, especially post covid all that. See if CEEFO, you know the see if I was going to be involved in your deals. Right, you can just expect that. So again this goes back to, you know, sitting down and understanding, like what are you to expect in the deal in terms of who needs to be involved, sitting down and coming up with the plan of attack based on that and not just relying on your champion to, you know, do everything for you, having it, you know, having a strong champion is great, but be you need to be the guide as well. Right, hey, Mr Mrs Champion, here's who we really need to have evolved if we want to make this deal real and when it comes to closing bigger deals. I know some people on here can can speak to this. But like, we may get luck and close, won't you know, a deal or two here with with one or two stakeholders involved, but to really get those large deals I don't know if you, if you all ever experiences, but for those larger deals I've never had just one or two people involved. It's been multiple people. It's a it's a must, it's an accessy. It's not going to happen. So if you want to do the land and expand, you know, one small ticket price and then kind of work your way up the mountain, you can do that. But if you want to go for the whole pie, initially right, it's going to made that multi threading approach. So with that that's my biggest piece of advice to take away here, Katie. I love that you guys. This is sing it so much fun. I told the Andrew before we hop on the call. I know somebody who have joined me on other events. I said I don't know if you know what you're in for, because we've got a lot of energy and we pack so much information and I know we weren't able to cover everything, but Alex shows through in our linkedin profile links for Jamal, Andrew and myself. Also check your email if you want to review a lot of the stuff that we discussed. Everything is going to be sent in a recording within at least twenty four hours of the event and if you liked anything that Jamal and Andrew had to say, ask them. I know Jamal has got a fabulous master class that he's got going on. Do you want to spend a minute and kind of share a little bit about that real quick? Sure. The master class is a non traditional approach to learning how to do super large deals. Somebody told me yesterday yet it's the cheat codes. You're giving us the cheat codes in how to do Maya deals, and I'm like, yeah, that pretty much is what it is. So it's a sixweek program once or twice a week, depending on how you do it. You can book a call with me if you want to talk about it and make a deal. Secretscom awesome. Yeah, if you have any other questions, don't ever hesitate to reach out to any of us. Go to sales happercom post questions in our community post. We have a huge discussion board with over like Seventyzero members all over the world that are just willing to answer any questions you have. Thank you so much, Jamal and Andrew, and I know I learned a lot. I'm sure our guested and in remembers it as well. So I asks everyone, this was another episode of the Sales Engagement podcast, to help this get in front of more eyes and ears. Please leave us a shining five star review. Join US at sales engagementcom for new episodes. Resources in the book on sales engagement to get the most out of your sales engagement strategy. Make sure to check out outreach that I oh, the leading sales engagement platform. See you on the next episode.

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