The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

How to Stay Ahead of Data Privacy Changes: What You Need to Know w/ Daniel Barber

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Daniel Barber, CEO of DataGrail, walks us through what the sales profession needs to know now about impending changes to data privacy and how he views these changes as beneficial to both sellers and customers. Tune in!

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast. This podcast is brought to you by outreach dot I oh, the leading sales engagement platform helping companies, sellers and customer success engage with fires and customers in the modern sales era. Check out sales engagementcom for new episodes, resources and the book on sales engagement coming soon. Now let's get into today's episode. Hey everybody, thanks for joining us again on the sales engagement podcast. Really excited about today's show. My name is Joevin Dollo, senior content managing editor over at outreach, and our guest today is incredible good friend of mine, Daniel Barber, CEO and Co founder of data grail. You probably seen in the news lately. They are very much a top of mine for a lot of sales organizations and really just companies in general. We're here today to talk about privacy in sales. It's a big, scary, looming topic. It's going to be really exciting, though, so don't let us scare you too much. I'm going to toss it on over to Daniel, who is going to tell us a little bit about himself and the company and why is here today. Thank you for the invitations to join the show. Obviously love spending time with you. We were fortunate to work together, Dott in eyes, and I look forward to continue with that relationship now with you. It outreach, and I a little bit of background in myself. I've been in the application and daughter space for coming up the decade. So worked with email companies, to companies like responses, companies like toudup. I actually am an advisor to outreach today and advisor to chorus dot ai and also to a construction company, Construction Technology Company in Australia called sign on the site. But my main focus, my muse, is data grail, and so our focus is ensuring that companies and individuals statters protected, and so we are creating a new standard for data transparency for both businesses and for...

...consumers. So excited to spend some time on the topic today. I consider myself a sales professional and so excited to provide a few insights into how the individual, to your point, can navigate the new and unchatted waters of an environment where companies and individuals expect to understand how the data is being used and if, upon requests, can retrieve their information or deleet their information. So why is it so important that? I mean, I think most of our listeners would probably heard these four letters, GDP are and maybe they don't know too much about it, but it's a big deal over the ego and it's probably going to be a big deal here in the US at some point. So why is it so important now to start talking about data security and privacy, especially within the sales profession? Yeah, and I good, great question. So I think the concept of data privacy is somewhat not new from a standpoint of the EU has been at the forefront of this push, the socioeconomic change that we're now seeing for some time. So a little bit of backstory. There was a privacy call the e directive, that was put in place in one thousand nine hundred and ninety five, and so we've actually had privacy regulation protecting you European citizens for quite some time. What has become a reality now, and why it is sort of at the forefront of every news article that you see, whether it's The Wall Street Journal or CNBC or any other service, is because companies are actually being penalized, and the reason why they are is because they are holding information and, in some cases, making money from your data, and so now individuals are starting to become more aware. They want to understand how companies are using their data, and if you've followed the news of the last few days, you would have seen a company called a Polo, formerly Zen prospect, two hundred million records just fell off the...

...back of a truck and unfortunately that truck is probably going to put them out of business right and so this becomes very real for organizations that are in the data space, but also companies that are using data. So I few are a self professional. Ensuring that businesses understand why you're contacting them and, more specifically, individuals understand why you're contacting them, will become a much bigger part of the sale process, especially because this is not just a European phenomenon. We're now seeing the California consumer privacy actors passed in June, which will allow very similar provisions to what GDP are allows for European citizens, and was passed may twenty five, and that comes into place in early two thousand and twenty. Countries like India have passed a custom of data privacy deal, so citizens of venue very soon will have similar type of provisions that are now allowed and protect European individuals. So if you're a US company, you will be looking to protect the rights of the individuals that you are contacting, i. The data you have in your cm or within outreach. And so for that reason this is now front and Center for every sales profession and so, yeah, excited to dive into a little bit of that today. Then you mentioned a lot of organizations, businesses, companies. Okay, let's talk about the frontline sales development rapp who needs to send a hundred emails a day? Who needs to make fifty cars a day? How is this going to affect them personally? You know, they may think, I'll let my boss deal with a throw up, my CEO deal with this, but it's going to change their day to day correct? Yeah, it will. And so if you know, you look at organizations that are now operating in the EU. So I give a couple of examples, real live outreach customers that I've seen firsthand. So one, for example, docky sign, and so Docu sign, as an organization, is now only engaging with people in Europe that are consented.

So what this means is there's a new form of consent so the European team that are using outreach today within Europe, they are only sending emails to people that are consented. Now the consent itself has to be an explicit consent. So what does that actually mean? That means that the individual has to have completed a form through, in fact eloquor. So has to have completed the other pro form and actually checked the box, so the box is unchecked by default, or they must have checked the box and then receive the email and then the outreach scre can contact them. So what does that actually mean for the str in Europe? It means that no longer can they go into sales, course, and just add contacts, or no longer can they just go into outreach and add contacts right, and so this is actually changing the entire way they do business. Now, is that a better way of doing business? Probably, because, fundamentally, if the person has come to the website and given their consent to be marketed to, I mean that's that's a pretty good indication and sales should contact them. So I think it's going to for if you are and SCR you're going to be a lot more conscious about the emails of the communications that you're sending to people because your your poll of people has shrunk significantly. So so no longer can you and thousands of people to to a sequence you need to think about. All right, well, if I've only got x number, these are probably a little bit more valuable than they were before, so perhaps I should be a little bit more thoughtful about what I said to them. And of course you could not do that. You can go down the path of legitimate interests, which you and I have talked about before and we've written about together. However, legitimate interests does require that you explicitly state how you acquired their information, and that means if you got it from a Ditosaur, so you collected, or from Linkedin, you...

...still have to explicitly state that. And if they ask how you got that information and you don't provide that information, you put your company in jeopardy of a penalty, which I think facebook with their one point six billion dollar fine this past week, I think that becomes a pretty strong reality that your organization is at risk, and you make a good point about it. It's going to fundamentally change the way sales people interact with their prospects, but that's still a very scary thought. They've been doing it one way for so long. They've been buying less, they've been U data providers to fill their crms with contacts, and now that's just not going to be the case anymore. or it may still be, but they're going to end up being fined. So what do you say to an organization that may be resistant to to going this way or saying something like well, it's not in the US yet, I can still, you know, download all of x data providers contacts and just blast away? What do you say that that company that may be resistant? Yeah, I mean that's a valid point, right. So, today, if you are a US company and you are contacting folks in the EU, that those individuals are protected. So even if you're an American company and you have European customers, which you know companies everywhere, do you have to be super conscious about what you're sending to? However, to your point, if your feeling resistance in your organization, and maybe this is this is not a problem that people are focused on. What I would say that that is it's only a matter of time. Right. So, man bendy off, the CEO of sales force, advocated in much that there will be a national privacy build. The Senate is actually revealing that right now. And so this is a changing period right and so, in the same way that we saw the GDP are take two years to be implemented, we will see California's regulation in the beginning part of two thousand and twenty and you see an enormous number of companies update their privacy policy in the early part of two twenty, as I'm sure we all remember, in March and April of this year. But that...

...will make some pretty big changes and established some processes that paps companies. They're not taking the steps now, they could put them in themselves in a position where it becomes a little uncomfortable. So I think we taking a step back. If I'm in the sales professional or sty are looking at this this podcast or listening along, think about those individuals that you're sending emails to. Would they actually want your email? Would be the question that I would ask yourself. So if you were to read your own email, would they actually want what you're sending them? And if you've got a thousand people loaded into your less, to use your example, do you even know the names of the people you're sending them to, and I think a lot of people on listening right now be like, nope, don't I know. I know ten percent of the people, or less than that probably. So you're telling me there's going to be some serious growing pains but that ultimately it's better for the industry, it's better for individuals and it's better for business. Yep, Yep. I would also add, you know, there are significant number of things that people could do. So if you look at services like t to crab, for example, you can look at the individual companies that are visiting your website. Right. So we have access to intent dat or we have access to intent before they even visit the website, meaning you can look at people that are searching for your particular software or service, and so, if that is available to you, are able to add individuals to your outreach sequence that are at that organization. That is certainly the basis for a legitimate interest, and so there's there's a whole bunch of things that companies could do. The decision is, are you actually going to do that? Right? So, if you're investing in understanding WHO's visiting your website and then you're investing in understanding the intense of buy or intent of WHO's potentially looking for your product or service. Get a short list of companies right there and then. If I was an Sdi r again, which I was, just for the record, I love the job. I still do it today, I'd be using that list and...

I'd be contacting those companies because they're looking for the product that we have. So there are a lot of creative ways I think companies have available to them. The question is that they're going to take that step. Okay, now let's assume that you work for a company that is attempting to be compliant, that the mandate is gone out. Hey, we have to adhere to these new guidelines and you are a person who has to make calls and emails and try and play and deals. Right, what do you say to the individual seller, like, what are the ways that they can remain compliant while continuing to do their same outbound motions they've been doing for months or years? Sure, and so in this case we're talking about an individual operating in the EU today, or we're talking about an individual just operating, let's say, under the California Consumer Privacy Act, sitting in perhaps the the we work, where you got where you are today. Yeah, let's let's do that last one. Let's say we were San Francisco, got to make my call, got some of your mouth. Yep. So first at I think he is going back to the basics that we've done for for a long time, which is hopefully your organization is invested in understanding your ideal customer profile, which you've personally enjoy written about many times, and I think that is a step that's very important because once you understand the touch of companies that potentially could fit you as an organization and and ultimately would benefit from your product, then that should get you an available list of companies and then from that available list to companies. That are sort of two ways you can gage people that are potentially could be interested. Right. So hopefully your marketing team is feeding you the list of companies that are visiting your website, to the domains that are visiting the website every day, and hopefully you're also getting the list of domains that are showing by our intent to purchase your product or service. And so from those two lists of companies, now you you want to try to acquire contacts that are at those companies. And so you've got, you know, these are the new individuals, new companies that are coming in every day. And then you've...

...also got people who are in your marketing consented list, right, so people who have actually said raise their hand and said, Yep, I'm interested in hearing about information from your company. Those now become significantly more valuable and in reality, your marketing team is probably spent thousands, tens of thousands of dollars acquiring those. So let me super careful with what you actually do with those. So combining those two entities, right, you've got companies and people that are sort of evaluating whether you're a product may solve their problem, and then you got these people who have actually said, yes, I think your products will solve my problem. So those two people, they become the people that you engage with. I can share a program in fact video listeners that end up getting to see. We're doing a directmount campaign, right, taking a back to basics, and we have a monogram's notepad personalized to the individual's personal last name. We have a handwritten note sent from me. We have a book sent to legal professionals, because, guess what, people don't really send direct mail, and so I think services like send os so will significantly benefit because that is a it's a personalized touch and so I think, you know, combining those two touch points, potentially with a phone call, if they've consented to do that, you'll find that people will go back to basics and I think it'll will really see some success with that, because it's actually how people want to buy as opposed to being sold to that I'd like can clarification of something you mentioned. So you said if a domain is coming to your site or a company is coming to your side and browsing around, all right, now you have that. You know that company is interested. Can you then just pick and choose contacts from that company to get each kill? So, just because you may have been the person, Daniel, may have been the person going to the site to look at outreach or whatever product you outrange, can now contact Joe who also works at your company or also works at so surfe. You state in the email, a little snippet at the top...

...of the email that says I found your information on Linkedin. We saw that your company was visiting our website today, which prompted me to reach out, which is actually a very personalized message. Anyway, you probably get a response from someone if you actually said Hey, we saw that you were actually these sing your company was visiting our website today. I'm not sure if that was you, but I can really love me to have a conversation about potentially solving this problem that I think I'd identify that your company has. I've got a fifty chance that that person will were staring with that email and you're actually solving two things one year saying the purpose for processing, which is part of the requirement for GDPI and will be for CCPA, and it's super personalized. Right, Hey, I noticed your company came to our website today. The person is probably like, AH, I don't know, should I be going to website? Let me just click through and take a look, and then you can, of course, track them in the service called outreach, and so that is the legitimate aspect, or a legitimate interest aspect that you were speaking of. Is that still somewhat of a gray area? Are we going to see what I mean? There has to be some rulings that actually define where that where the walls? Yes, that's a great question, Joe. I think that's probably the greyest area. I wrote a post on this for sales hacker back in much or April, and I called him the good and bad and the gray, and the gray was alluding to exactly your point that there is actually not a lot of clarity of how companies are supposed to do this. What's called a legitimate interest balancing test. It's a legal term. I think it's challenging for business to understand and practically implement what that means. But I would say that having an audit tray or at least having, you know, some form of indication you've made an attempt, is a good thing, because if you were a polo this week right and you did just have two hundred million contacts fall off the back of the truck, the regulator is definitely going to be poking the stick at that organizations and prospect and seeing how else...

...they can find the company or really put them out of business. Your team happened to be sending thousands of emails. You probably don't want to be working as ND prospector I should say, a Polo today. Absolutely yeah, I am glad that I'm not there. In closing water from takeaways. What are something that you want the listeners take away if they had could take away one thing from this podcast. What do you want that to be? So I think this concept of data privacy, it's scary for sales professionals. You said that the beginning of the PODCAST. I would flip it back to the person who's listening and ask yourself again, would you want to receive the emails do you send and are you comfortable with companies using and selling and potentially losing your daughter? And if you're not, then these type of regulations are actually protecting youtube. And so the goal here is really data transparency. So you, as a listener, that says professional, also the consumer, also the buyer, should have visibility into companies and their use of your daughter. And so while these regulations may seem scary, ultimately they're protecting you as an individual, and so that's that's, I think, the bigger picture to keep in mind. It's very easy to just lays the line, and so I think the goal here is around own doted transparency, and so hopefully we get there right absolutely, and you are helping us get there, Daniel. So thank you very much. If people want to get ahold of you, how can they do that? Yep, so I am giving people consent. So thank if you've listened to this far, you officially have my verbal consent. Lovely. You can email me at Daniel at Dotta grail dot io compromise. I'll reply back immediately that I'll do my best. Can probably track whether I open the email if you send it throughout reach, so you're welcome to try that. I'm also on the white pages of the Internet, otherwise known as Linkedin. See can find me there or on twitter under a Guy Jin Dan. That's GAI JI and Dan. Probably wondering why that. That's strange. It's Japanese...

...for foreign person, because I'm generally far perfect. All Right, Daniel, thank you so much for being on the show today. Thanks again to all of our listeners and we will see you next time on the sales engagement podcast. Thank you. Thanks you. This was another episode of the sales engagement podcast. Join US at sales engagementcom for new episodes, resources and the book on sales engagement coming soon. To get the most out of your sales engagement strategy, make sure to check out outreach. That I oh the leading sales and musement plot. See you on the next episode.

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