The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

How to Build a Coaching Culture in Your Business w/ Chad Dyar

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Sales is hard to stay on top of. When the industry, and the technology that pushes it forward, is constantly changing, it’s natural to want to keep up and change with it.  

Big, sweeping changes feel exciting and innovative, but have you stopped to consider whether you’ve mastered (or even tested) the art of change management? Or do you tend to just announce a change with the expectation that everyone will buy-in? It’s an important question to ask yourself as a business leader.

We sat down with Chad Dyar, Director of Sales Enablement at OnDeck. His role is about change, but more than change, it’s about healthy growth and development. As the leader of the sales enablement team, his focus is on driving sales productivity and efficiency through performance management, process improvement, technology implementation, new tool adoption, and creating development opportunities.  

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast. This podcast is brought to you by outreach dot ioh, the leading sales engagement platform helping companies, sellers and customer success engaged with buyers and customers in the modern sales era. Check out sales engagementcom for new episodes, resources and the book on sales engagement coming soon. Now let's get into today's episode. Welcome back to another episode of the sales engagement podcast. I am your host, Joe Agnolo, senior content managing editor over at outreach, and we have another tremendous show. Today. We've got Chad di are, director of sales enablement at on deck. He is here to Talk About Role of coaching and organization, how to really do three hundred and sixty view and an exciting new position he's creating over it a company. But before we get to that, I'm going to throw it on over to Chad, who can introduce himself tell us a little bit about his background and what he's doing over it on deck. Chad, thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you for having me, Joe. I'm Chad dire director sales enablehen it on deck, and I've been here for two years. I came on board as a sales director working in our renewals department and I was working on so many initiatives that were related to enablement that they created that position at the end of last year and we got off the ground running with sales enablement January this year. They give me a team of marketing ops, contact ops and enablement people and we're off to the races. So yeah, my background before this I actually went to school and trained as a professional opera singer. So the first half of my career I was on stages and singing and then I somehow figured out how to transition that over to sales and being as dramatic as possible while closing deals. And Yeah, and now I think that's giving me a leg up and a lot of the things I work on now, because performing was a lot about creating community, working on stage with a group of people to put something together as a group in percentage. And I look at the customers and prospects I have now well like I looked at my audience when I was performing. So that's my approach. Little Weird, little to the side, maybe a little different, but it's yielded some really interesting results in my career. That incredible. You know, I did do a little snooping on your linkedin and I saw they had a musical background. I was actually a classical guitar major in College. So we have it. Yeah, we have that kind of in common. They're actually going a little bit more about how that influences your day to day. I mean you have that comfort probably in front of large groups you're able to kind of command the attention of your sales team. So, yeah, can you go into that a little bit? Yeah, I the word that I think most people use is creative. I think I'm just a big Ham. I love to get up in front of people. I'm pretty fearless. I'm frequently in costumes in my office just trying to get people's attention. As a matter of fact, we launched a magazine this year called the enablement weekly to bring actionable marketing content to our sales people and to launch it I dressed up is a soul pros and did on interview segment in my blond wig and my little headbanging music. So yeah, frequently I'm putting my performance degrees to work in the office and...

...then also training. I mean training I have to get up in front of a room full of people and try to captivate them and make them want to listen and interact with me, and having the background of just understanding people. A lot about performing is getting into the head of whoever you're playing and learning how to do that across all the roles that I played to the year makes it a lot for the years. Makes it a lot easier now when I'm getting to the heads of the people that I'm working with, training with even my sales leadership team, understand in the personalities I'm dealing with what motivates them and be able to peel to that to get the initiatives I'm working on moving forward actual pros. I'm a big fan of a good pun, so that's that's awesome. It's all about our marketing content. You I get that writing pun in there. Yeah, exactly, and you enablement weekly newsletter. That sounds pretty interesting. How much of that is or how much of your job is kind of building this community within your sales team to reinforce training? It's a big part of my job. I think the two big pillars of what I do. One side is enablement technology, which is like our marketing and sales stacks. Marking automation tools are a little one off marketing tools and then all the sales enablement tools which we just started building out this year, and then I have a really deep relationship with our selves force team inside of the Tech Organization. So that's one side of it. The other side, which I'm really going to jump into more next year, is the sales effectiveness side, which includes training, performance management, understanding how to get everyone on the sales for doing the things we need to get them to do and then taking really good measurement of that over the course of time to find out what's working at what's not so that we can pivot, because I think a lot of time in sales we'd like to make big, sweeping changes. We decide we're going to do something, we kind of drop it like a bomb on the sales team and change management's not necessarily a strong suit for a lot of sales organizations. It's it's usually quick and we have to do this to make this and hit this number, and I think my job on the team is taking a step back and putting together a little bit more of a long term strategy when it comes to our tools in our training so that we can move people in direction we need them to move into over time. So there's a lot of daytoday and my partner, who's a director of robops, is really focused on the day to day. But for me I like to work with my team on what's next year look like the year after that? What tools are we going to get? What's our ecosystem going to look like and how's it going to benefit ourselves the team? How's it going to remove friction from the process, give them a better experience, let them really focused on selling, and then when they do that, the other side of my role says, how are they going to sell better? Is If I give them all the best tools in the world but don't teach them many tricks and they're on the phones just kind of say and whatever they say, and we have a hundred people selling a hundred different ways, we're not gonna have an accurate measure of how the tools are working. So the goal is to get one really nice training process down, get everyone on the same page and then get a three hundred and sixty view of what that training does to for our cells organization over time go back and retest them on that knowledge and then find out how they're applying it day to day and their roles, using tools like exact vision, where we're listening the calls and making sure, for teaching, relationships selling, we're listening to make sure they're building a relationships. Let's dive a little deeper into this kind of three hundred and sixty view of ramping, training, continual coaching. Let's like the bread and Butner of you over your method. What are the things that you need to focus on day to day to ensure the...

...success for your team over time? Simple to scale is my motto. Let's do one thing at a time and make sure everyone's doing it, that they're bought into it and they're giving a lot of feedback so we get it where it needs to be and then over time we add complexity. So for us we started with coaching and we didn't have a tool at first. We were just saying, Hey, do it. It's painful to pool calls, you have to listen to the whole thing. It wasn't necessarily a hundred percent adoption for everybody, but we got people into the mentality of coaching. We built a score card. We said here's what to listen for let's get these scores, let's get these players identified, what level they're at, abcde of G, whatever we decide, we're going to call them and then let's move them up through the ranks and see where opportunity is with ourselves people when it comes to how they're selling on the phones. So once we got that process built, which I've partner with our learning and development team to get that put together, then we got our coaching tool exact vision. Steve Richard came on site when g WHO's are awesome customers success for AP Gog, and they spent a couple of days with US making sure that everyone here got all the training they needed at all the questions answered. And after we got done with that, everyone's using the tool. The managers where we're doing to coaching, coaching sessions per everyone on their team a week. Everyone on the team was sending over calls. So suddenly we're in this full fledge coaching environment. We have our score cards, we know what people are saying and we see whe our opportunities are for improvement. Now on the other side of that, we said, okay, we need to pay attention to our coaches first, because they're having the most impact. One manager talking to ten people, if they are low skill, that's ten x bad coaching going down the chain. So we flat up manager effect in this training for Pew four of this year and we set a three workshops. The first one was effective coaching. We gave them pre work, they came into the room, we let them all go around and talk about what was working what wasn't. It was one of the best sessions that I've been in since I've been here because the managers came in pumped up with tons of feedback. They were all, as expected, doing different things and with coaching, and we were able to take some of those best practices across the people that were considered really strong coaches. They were able to give a really, really nice idea of what they were doing, it was working and that's translated across the team and our entire coaching culture has come up stronger because of that. But we did have one event that helped us calibrate to kick off, and that was the coaching Olympics that we had early in the summer where we had every manager coach someone who is not on their team. We had a panel of experts from all across business including some of our executives who said in the room the score cards, but a calibration session. We agreed with the scoring criteria was we built the root brick. Everyone had the same thing in their hand. We spent a full day watching managers coach, I think I said in on like eight panels myself, and they were half our sessions. But at the end of the day we announced a winner, we gave a we gave a vacation to our winner, our manager that one, who was Jordan Gaskell, and she was recognized immediately as being the strongest coach. Here's what she's doing right. So we took a lot of that and put it back into our coaching curriculum. Here's why her team loves working with her, here's why they never miss a coaching session. Here's the value she adds. And that's the way that we've scaled it. We really started with the people that we're doing it every day, make sure they saw value,...

...made sure that the coaches were invested in doing it consistently and now that we've been doing it for for quite a while, we've actually seen some really cool results and we're working on with the next level. Stuff is and I don't have to search for areas of improvement for them. I have to look for opportunities to train their president. There in the right in our face. Here's where we're missing the mark, here's what we're good at, here's what we could be better at, and I can just chary pick those things and managers are giving me and that's where our training content is going to come from. You mentioned the word constittency. Even doing this for a while, how do you reinforce this great coaching that you've implemented? Now I've had these big initiatives. Everyone's pumped up in the first couple months and then suddenly kind of dies off and people slowly migrate back to the way they like to do things. How do you ensure that, once you implement a great coaching culture, that it continues? Sure, we have what we call the monthly touchback. So every month I get all the managers in the room for half an hour before the meeting, I pick two managers who are doing something interesting. Or, if I do lots of Drivebys, I'm walking by all the time. What are you doing? What's going well? How's it working? I'm also in exact vision all the time looking at notes and score cards and seeing who's making progress us who's not. So I pick two managers, I give them a topic and then when we have our touch back, they get ten minutes to present each and then the last ten minutes is just around Robin like a popcorn. What's working, what's not? Let's have a conversation. So they're always going to be put on the spot at some point to come in and say I'm doing something, it's cool and new and I'm helping my team grow and there's some competition. It's really healthy when you're coming month the month and you're the person that has never been recognized because you have a anything interesting and the VPS are sitting in the room saying, you know, you haven't been up in front of us in a while. I think that's the accountability that helps US push it forward. I don't think we can do it forever, like there's going to be other stuff that comes comes up for us in the future that we're going to have to put our focus on. But right now a half hour once a month with all the managers in a room that's structured. It's not just coming and talk about whatever. I have two people coming to speak on a topic and then ten minutes of just let's figure out what's going on or ten minutes of how can we apply what we just learned? But that monthly touch back is what it gives us momentum and keeps it fresh on people's minds. But managers that are doing all the Daytoday, coaching is interesting to them. They have these tools that they've never had before, so a lot of them are really excited about it. So my goal is just to keep that moment and go and keep the excitement going and then figure out what the next levels are. And we actually have an idea for what we're going to do in q one, q, q three, Q for next year to add just a little bit of complexity of each layer to make sure that we're engaging people the right way and keeping it consistent. Like you said, it sounds like there's a lot of moving parts to all of this. I'm tired just hearing you talk about everything you're doing to ensure success for your team. How are you managing all this? How are you able to do the tactical stuff the Daytoday, enforcement and training, but then think about every quarter of next year and get everything ready to go? So that's why I'm hiring the sales effect from this manager on my team made and support me because, like you said, I am doing logistics and I am doing planning and I am doing strategy. But, like I said, I leverage a lot of the people on my team for most of this. I don't have to...

I don't have to get up and do anything. And these thirty minute meetings we have one some on coaching. I just have to pick two people and say what are you doing? This working? Can you come in and talk about that? So a lot of is just organization and paying attention and then, like I said, next year we're going to have the sales effectiveness manager start in January and they're going to take over a lot of the effectiveness initiatives, including things like coaching, training, performance management, and be able to really drill down on all the things that I had some cool ideas about but haven't really been able to build because of the just time and bandwidth. Like I said, one side of my business is tools, one side is training and effectiveness. Really hard to give those things any less than all of my attention to make it work and keep moving forward. For sales managers that may be listening or sales enablement managers. What are some things they can do quickly that can level up their process, that can improve the training and enablement that they provide to their teams? Survey their team. Don't be scared to start with a people you're working with when you have an idea for an initiative. Before I sit down in a room and waste hours of time doing the thing that I think is the coolest thing in the world, I grab a couple of people on the floor that I trust, see senior sales reps managers that I know were really excited about what they do, and say, Hey, here's a thing. Recently we adopted lessonly as our LMS system and we're building out a lot of our manager effectiveness curriculum there. So the First Workshop was coaching. The second one is effective one on ones and team meetings. So I partner with LD they built this really nice training. So in the Beta group I picked five or six people that I knew would give really good feedback and we put them through the less sandy path first, got all their feedback and then, when we were able to add some of that feedback into the program and then send it back out to the team and then we have a workshop schedule for next week. We're going to get down as a group, all the managers, all the all the leaders on the sales team and dig into that. So I'm leveraging my partners across the organization. I'm leveraging tools that we already have. And then that's the next level. Like they got coaching on lock. We're going to have the monthly thirty minute recap. We're going to focus now on effective one on ones, which is going to be more like pipeline management, developing your sales reps, giving them an idea about what their future future scape should look like in their role. And then the last piece is going to be our cell strategy and December, where we're going to actually have the VP's of sales, I'll come in the room, talk about what we're trying to accomplish and then white board ways to get the managers engaged in driving that strategy forward. So at the end of the quarter we will have finished three months of manager effectiveness and be ready to jump into two thousand night team with a pretty solid plan. Now have to imagine all of this training for your managers. It's helping retain your top sales talent. Talk to me about how important that that absolutely is and kind of D or a lie that you're getting out of all of these things that you're doing. Yeah, I think I'm one of those people, as you might be able to tell, who gets bored easy. Maybe these conversation. I like to keep moving and I like things that you keep me interested. I sold for like almost a decade, so I know how boring it gets in second sales when you got your pipeline, you're making your calls and you're having a lot of...

...the same conversations. Ice Entertain myself by doing different accents with prospects, like I had to figure out a way to keep it fresh and my one of my job here is I'm kind of the circus clown of the office as well. I want to make sure that everybody I'm juggling to make sure they're all smiling and happy to be here. But also giving people the Path is really important and I've learned, and we just developed ourselves levels to give people steps all the way up to say hey, you want to be a professional salesperson and not a manager and not a sales ops or not enablement person. Let's give you some levels to work through, let's give you some objectives to hit when it comes to training and learning, demonstrating your learning, and then, you know specifically around like quotas and achievement attainment, and let people be able to move up in six months or a year in two different levels so they can earn more money, have a different level of seniority across the team so we have different people to leverage for initiatives, because I know I'm going to grab my level for senior people when I need to ask someone a detail question about our sales process with a business, and it gives me people to go to. It gives them things to do. This different in the day to day because our level ones are doing different things in our level floors, a quality of the leads that they're getting, the quality of the opportunities that they're going to be working we're working on really building a strategy moving forward to isolate those skills that we expected for everyone to each level and empower them and then to give them something to reach for, and the training is also just opening the path in front of them. You can be the salesperson forever, be the sales pro or if you're interested in other things. I'm one of the conduits that helps provide them with a map to where they could go. Do you like marketing? Do you like sales operations? Do you like training? Do you want to come work with me on my training or in sales enablement? So yeah, a lot of it is just figure out what those different paths are and providing opportunities for people to experience, whether it's shadowing or just having good conversations or pairing people up with the mentors they are a little bit further down the path and other departments so that they have more opportunities to grow. And then, in real time, it keeps people competitive on the floor. I'm a level to that wants to get to a level three. I'm going to sell more, I'm going to focus harder. I'm a level three or four. They wants to be a manager. I'm going to prove myself. I'm going to go to meetings, I'm going to get involved in different initiatives, I'm going to give a lot of feedbacks of it. I'm more present in my leadership team. So I think that creates a level of excitement that's ongoing. It always gives people something to stretch for and and having that stretch and all those opportunities and understanding. I mean, look at me. I started the company is just a sales director and they created a role to use the skills that they perceived me bringing to the company and I put that forward when I'm talking to people. Maybe you don't know what you want to do right now, but let's talk about what you're good at and how that could benefit the company down the road and let's build it. The sales effectiveness managers a great example. That's not really a role that you hear about a lot. I mean, I haven't heard about it a lot, but part of my job is effectiveness and I can't do all the things all the time. So they said, Hey, let's let's find this person, let's get them to come in really focused on what the skill set needs to be and we put together a really awesome profile for what we were looking for and our pipeline of candidates for that is awesome. Like we have the skill sets on lock that we're looking for in the people that are applying or right in the middle of that road, and it makes me really excited to get that higher...

...own board and started in January and because I'm I'm in saying all the time, I already have their ninety day plan written down and most of that is the things that I don't want to do in the next ninety days. So I'm pretty excited about to getting this role on board. So explain me. You say you have these different levels of sales rolls. Right, so if you come in as a one, you hit certain milestone, you can move up to two and so for, so on and so forth. How do you balance that with business need? Right, because you may have a team of level fours and there's nowhere to go because your business doesn't need anywhere to go up more. Yeah, I think because it's new, we haven't hit that wall yet. We already have some creative ideas when we get there. We have some salespeople that have been here. I think our average ten years, like four years here, three or four years, which for sales team is something. Yeah, they're happy, they're happy, they're making money, they see opportunity, the companies growing. I mean there's just a lot of exciting things happen and make people say what, we want to be here because we want to see what happens next. But by the time you get to level four, you've been in sales for a while and you like being in sales. And what we're finding with most of our fours is they're about the money. They want to cash the pay check and that's what they want to do, which is what level force for it could be. I want to be a team leader, I want to be a manager. But some people are like, I don't want to do any of that. Like we've grabbed a few people and said Hey, you've been here a while and you're really good, we should do this in this in this. They're like not, I just want to make you know how much you going to pay me to do that is the first question. And then when it's not the same number, they're like, I'm happy where I am. So when you get to level four, which it takes a minute to get to, it's not one of those things that, like everybody's going to be a level for next year. You're making a good enough income to where, if you just want to be here and sell and you're happy doing that, you're going to earn well and you have some security in the position by just maintaining but we do ask a lot of our fours our force have the highest quote us. Our fours are working on some of the bigger opportunities, so it's a push for them as well to be able to maintain and then there's also things like presidents club bragging rights. We still have those things in play which keep people pushing forward. In our level, fours are usually the ones who are on those strips. That's awesome. That's a good thing. In a previous company that I worked at, the milestones needed to move up from like str one, ftr two and so on. We're pretty attainable wrap rather quickly. I mean you could hit those and you go to a two in the first three months. You can go to the three and next four months and then you hit ceiling. But it sounds like there's kind of a choose your own adventure at that point. You can kind of talk to the management and see if there's room in marketing or CS or enablement or whatever. Yeah, and our cycle is a sixmonth cycle and you have to meet all the qualifications. You could blow out your number for six months, but there's a training track with five competencies and if you haven't gotten all the way through that, which is a it's a little bit of dedication. It's going to be probably require an hour or two hours a month of just getting through all of the training content and going to the course as you have to go to to satisfy that to move forward. So if you're rested on your laurels and you hit your number, even if you blow your quote out, you're like a hundred twenty five percent, you're happy to be here. Can't get promoted if you haven't satisfied all the criteria to move to the next level, and that's one of the things that...

...we're finding out. We have people that are hyper aggressive when it comes to I will do everything I have to do and then push to get that number two and then those promotions are easy to happen on cycle and they're people that are just happy to be here and as long as they're performing, we're happy to have them. I'll awesome chat. If there's something you want to leave our listeners with one takeaway. What would that be? Start Simple. I know we went through a million different things here, but the seed of the idea and getting the buy in of the people that are going to be executing it is crucial. The first thing that we did was have the conversation and it led us down a path. It's been amazing and really fruitful. But if I didn't sit in the room with twenty people and say why will will this work? Why won't this work, and make sure that I had a bunch of champions on board saying this is the right first thing to do, because coaching, that seems like it's not a left field to be the first tool that we set up, to be the first idea that we have. But you know, in the back of the heads of the leadership we thought this is the biggest bang for our book. We get a group of managers who become better coaching, we get people that are better on the phone, we give our customers a much better experience through talking to people who are getting coached and paying attention. That's going to take us somewhere great and it has so start simple and get the buy Ao your people, make sure your leaderships on board and if everyone's on the same page and you move forward as the group you create, you create a culture of what if you're trying to create, instead of just a project or an initiative, and I think changing the culture is what creates success and momentum, especially in your situation at on deck. You've been very proactive with this right a lot of people bring in coaches because they recognize there's a big issue and it's kind of too late that the sales process has been broken for a while, the culture has been broken. So I love the fact that you are getting out in front of all of these things and building these processes ahead of time so that you don't have to go back. Oh Yeah, when you want to make a change and you have a coaching culture where people are sitting in the room with their managers anyway, we can enforce that change immediately. I look at it like an army with our generals out front. We're all Martian in the same direction. If we were pointing at all different directions, there's going to be too much friendly fire to get anything done. But when we're all pointed in the same direction, our leaders are focused, our managers are giving the same consistent message in our team's clear what's expected of them, we move forward and in the same direction and we can move a little bit faster because we're all going together. Chat if people want to get a hold of you just to pick your brain or learn more about on deck. How can they do that? If you connect with me on Linkedin, that's the best way to get me. I put all my real contact information on there, so if you can act, you can get my number, my email, all the ways. My favorite thing in the entire world is talking to my network. Try to schedule to a three conversations of week with really smart people. I know had lunch with my friend Max from outreach earlier this week and I think his brain got some really cool ideas came back excited. So I love doing that. If you're in New York City, look me up. We can have coffee. If you're not, emails greater. I'm happy to do a facetoface web meeting anytime as well. Fantastic. I want to thank you for being on the show today, Chad. Great stuff and good takeaways for people that want to implement a very effective enablement and coaching society in that their company. It's fantastic and I want to thank all of our listeners for tuning in today and we will...

...see you next time on the sales engagement podcast. Thank you. This was another episode of the sales engagement podcast. Join US at sales engagementcom for new episodes. Resources and the book on sales engagement coming soon. To get the most out of your sales engagement strategy, make sure to check out outreach die Oh, the leading sales engagement platform. See you on the next episode.

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