The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

How to Build a Coaching Culture in Your Business w/ Chad Dyar

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Sales is hard to stay on top of. When the industry, and the technology that pushes it forward, is constantly changing, it’s natural to want to keep up and change with it.  

Big, sweeping changes feel exciting and innovative, but have you stopped to consider whether you’ve mastered (or even tested) the art of change management? Or do you tend to just announce a change with the expectation that everyone will buy-in? It’s an important question to ask yourself as a business leader.

We sat down with Chad Dyar, Director of Sales Enablement at OnDeck. His role is about change, but more than change, it’s about healthy growth and development. As the leader of the sales enablement team, his focus is on driving sales productivity and efficiency through performance management, process improvement, technology implementation, new tool adoption, and creating development opportunities.  

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast,this podcast is brought to you by out reached at io the leading salesengagement platform, helping companies, sellers and customer success engagedwith buyers and customers in the modern sales era, check out salesengagementcom for new episodes, resources in the book on salesengagement coming soon now, let's get into today's episode. Welcome back to another episode ofthese sales engagement podcast, I am your host Jo Icnello senior contentmanaging eter over at outreach, and we have another tremendous show. Today.We've got Chad, dier director of sales mablement at Ondeck. He 's here to talkabout t e Roll of coaching and organization how to really do it thrdand sixty vew and an exciting new position he's creating over at hiscompany, but before we get to that, I'm going to throw it on over to Chad, whocan introduce himself tell us a little bit about his background and what he'sdoing over on Deck Jad. Thank you so mone for being on the show, thank youfor having me Joe, I'm Chad, dire direct yoursells namemen an on Todeckand I've been here for two years. I came on board as a sales directorworking in our renewlals department, and I was working on so manyinitiatives that were related to anablement that they created thatposition at the end of last year and we got off the ground running with salesenablement January this year. They give me a team of marketing, ofps contact,ops, some enableent people and we're also the races so yeah my backgroundbefore this. I actually went to school and drained as a professional, opfersinger. So the first half of my career, I was on stages and singing, and then Istol howe figured out how to transition that over to sales and being asdramatic as possible while closing deals and yeah. And now I think, that'sgiven me a legup and a lot of the things I work on now, becauseperforming was a lot about creating community working on stage with a groupof people to put something together as a group and persentate, and I look atthe customers and prospects I have now.

But, like I looked in my audience whenI was performing so that's my approach, but a weird little to the side, maybe alittle different, but it's yielded some really interesting results of my career.That's incredible! You know I did do a little snooping on your linked in and Isaw the ad a musical background. I was actually a classical guitar major incollege, so he have ha yeah. We have that kind of in common. There actuallygo in a little bit more about how that influences your day. Today I mean youhave that comfort, probably in front of large groups, you're able to kind ofcommand the attention of your sales team. So yeah can you go into thatlittle bit? Yeah. The word that I think most people use is creative. I thinkI'm just a big Ham. I love to get up in front of people, I'm pretty fearless,I'm frequently in costumes in my office just trying to get people's attention.As matter of fact, W we launched a magazine this year called theenablement weekly to bring actionable marketeting contents, our salespeopleto launch it. I dressed up as axel prose and did an interview segment inmy blond wig and my little head banging music, so yeah, frequently I'm puttingmy performance degrees to work in the office and then also training. I meantraining. I have to get up in front of a room, W fulof people and try tocaptivate them and make them want to listen interact with me and having abackground of just understanding people, because a love bout performing isgetting into the head of whoever you're playing and learning how to do thatacross all the rules that I played with tbeer makes it a l to the years makesit a lot easier now, when I'm getting to the heads of the people that I'mworking with training with even my Isales leadership team understand inthe personalities I'm dealing with what motivates them and being able to appealto that to get the initiatives, I'm working on moving forward Axel Pros,I'm a big fan of a good pun. So that's that's awesome. It's all aboutmarketing! Contenye, get that writing put in there yeah exactly Neter enablement, weekly newsletter.That sounds pretty interesting. How much of that is, or how much of yourjob is kind of building this community within your sales team, to reinforcetraining? It's a big part of my job. I think the two big pillars of what I do.One side is enablement technology, which is like our marketing an sale,stacks barking, aunimation tills are...

...little one off marketing souls and thenall the sales enablement tools which we just started building out this year,and then I have a really deep relationship with ourselves for teaminside of the Tech Organization. So that's one side of it. The other sidewhich I'm really going to jump into do more next year, is the sallseffectiveness side, which includes training, performanance management,understanding how to get everyone on the fills for doing the things weneeded to get them to do, and then taking really good measurement of thatover the course of t e time to find out what's working at. What's not that wecan pivot, because I think a lot of time in sales we'd like to make bigsweeping changes, we decide we're going to do something. We kind of drop itlike a bomb on the sales team and change management is not necessarily astrong suit for a lot of sills organization INS. It's usually quick,and we have to do this to make this and hit this number, and I think my job onthe team is taking a step back and putting together a little bit more of aa long term strategy when it comes to our tols and our training, so that wecan move people in th direction. E need them to move into over time. So there'sa lot of daytoday and my partner is E. Director of rebbops is really focusedon the day today. But for me, I like to work with my team on what's next year.Look like the year after that. What tools are we going to get? What's ourhecosystem going to look like and how's it going to benefit ourselves? Seenhaws it going to remove forfiction from the process, give them a betterexperience, but then really footissed on selling and then, when they do, that,the other side of my role says: How are they going to sell better is if I givethem all the best tools in the world, but don't teach them many tricks andthey're on the phones, just kind of saying whatever they say, and we have ahundred people selling a hundred different ways. We're not going Ta havea accurate measure of how the tools are working. So the goal is to get onereally nice training process down, get everyone on the same page and they geta thr and sixty de of what that training does for ourselvesorganization, every time gut back and retest them on that knowledge and thenfind out how they're applying it they today and their roles using toals likeexact vision, where we're listening, toe calls and making sure for teachingrelationship, selling, we're Listenong to make sure they're building thoserelationships. Let's Dag a little deeper into this kind of thre and sixtyview of ramping training, continual coaching.What's like the Breadan bunner of over your method, what are the things thatyou need to focus on day today to...

...insure the success for your teamovertime, simple to scale is my motto: Let's do one thing at a time and makesure everyone's doing it that they're bought into it and they're, giving alot of feedback, so we get it where it needs to be and then overtime. We addcomplexity. So for us we started with coaching and we didn't have a tool atfirst, but we were just saying: Hey: do it it's painful to pool cause? You haveto listen to the whole thing. It wasn't necessarily a hundred percent adoptionfor everybody, but we got people into the mentality of coaching. We built ascore car. We said here's what to listen for. Let's get these scoreslet'sget these players identified, T level they're at ABCDE FG. What ar we decide,we're going to call them and then let's move them up through the ranks and seewhere opportunity is with with Ourseles people when it comes to how they'reselling on the phones. So once we got that process built, which I a partnerwithout learning and development team to get that put together, then we gotour coaching tool. EXAC vision, Steve Richard came on sites. An gens areawesome, customers, Sixcessrap Gog, and they spent a couple of days with USmaking sure that everyone here got all the training they needed. Had all thequestions answered and after we got done with that, everbyone was use inthe tool. The managers wherewe're doing two Coachi coaching sestions pereveryone of ther team. A week. Everyone on the team was sending over calls, sosuddenly we're in this full fledge, coaching environment. We have our scorecards, we know what people are saying and we see whoue opportunities are fromiprovement, but on the other side of that we said, okay, we need to payattention to our coaches first, because they're having the most impact onemanager talking about ten people, if theyare low skill, that's TNEX badcoaching, going down the chain, so we fot up manager effect in this trainingfor to four this year and we said, have three workshops. The first pone waseffective coaching. We gave them prework, they came into the room, welet them all go around and talk about what was working and what wasn't. Itwas one of the best sessions that I've been in since I've been here becausethe managers came in pumped up with tons of feedback. They were all asexpected doing different things with coaching and we were able to take someof those best practices across the people that were considered reallystrong coaches. They were able to give a really really nice idea of what theywere doing. It was working and that's...

...translated across the team and ourentire coaching culture has come up stronger because of that, but e we didhave one event TOT HELPD US calibrate to kick off, and that was the coachingOlympics that we had early in the summer where we had every manager coach,someone who is not on their team. We had a panel of experts from all acrossbusiness, including some of our executives who sending the Rim withscore cards wit a calibration session. We agreed with the scoring criteria.Was We built the rout brick? Everyone had the same thing in their hand. Wespent a full day and watching managers coach. I think I seid in on, like eightpannels myself, an theywere half hour sessions, but at the end of the day weannounced a winter we gave we get a vacation to our winter, our managerthat won Hoas, Jordan Gasschol and she was recognized h immediately as beingthe strongest coach. Here's what she's doing right. So we took a lot of thatand put him back into our coaching curriculum. Here's why her team lovesworking with her here's, why they never miss a coaching session, here's thevalue she adds and that's the way that we've stalled it. We really startedwith the people that were doing it every day, make sure they saw a value,make sure that the coaches were invested in doing it consistently andnow that we've been doing it r for quite a while. We've actually seen somereally cool results and we're working on what the next level stuff is, and Idon't have to search for areas of improvement for them. Don't have tolook for oppportunities to train their present. They're there right in tourface here's what we're missing the markers, we're good at here's, what wecould be better at and I can just charrypick those things and managersfor giving me and that's where our training contents going to come from.You mentioned the word. Concigency t you've been doing this for a while. Howdo you reinforce this great coaching that you've implemented now? I've hadthese big initiatives, everyone's pumped up in the firt couple months andthen suddenly kind of dies off and people slowly migrate back to the waythey like to do things. How do you ensure that Ance Tou implement a greatcoaching culture that it continues sure we have what we call the monthlytouchback so every month I get all the managers in t a room for half an hourbefore the meeting. I think two managers who are doing somethinginteresting or Ave. I do lots of drive bys, I'm walking by all the time. Whatare you doing? What's going? Well,...

...how's it working, I'm also in exactvision, all the time, looking at notes and score cards and seeing who's MakiPam Progress WHO's. Not so I phink the two managers, I give them a topic andthen, when we have our touchback, they get ten minutes to present each andthen the last ten minutes is just around Robin. Like a popcorn. What'swork, ING, whatce, it's not lithshave a conversation, so they're always goingto be put on the spot at some point to come in and say I'm doing, someomething,it's cool and new, and I'm helping my team grow and there's some competition.It's really healthy. When you're coming month, the month and you're he theperson that has never been recognized because you have 't the anythinginteresting and the DPS are sitting in the room saying you know you haven'tbeen up in front of us in a while. I think that's the accountability thathelps US push it forward. I don't think we can do it forever, like there'sgoing to be other stuff. That comes comes up for us in the future thatwe're going to have to put our focus on, but right now, a half hour once a monthwith all the managers in a room that structured it's not just coming andtalk about whatever I have two people coming to speak on a topic and then tenminutes of just let's figure out. What's going on or ten minutes of, howcan we apply what we just learned, but that monthly touch back is what itgives us momentum and keeps it fresh on people's minds, but managers that aredoing all the day today. Coaching is interestiing to them. They have thesetools that they've nevever had before so a lot of them are really excitedabout it. So my goalis just to keep that moment, anm going keep theexcitement going and then figure out what the next levels are and weactually have an idea for what we're going to do in Qoneq, toq, three and qfour next year to add just a little bit of complexity at each layer to makesure that we're engaging people the right way and keeping it consistent.Like you said, it sounds like there's a lot of moving parts to all of this. I'mtired just hearing you talk about everything, you're doing to ensuresuccess for your team. How are you managing all this? How are you able to do the tactical stuff the day today,enforcement and training, but then think about every quarter of next yearand get everything ready to go? So that's why I'm hiring the siles effectfrom this manager on my team man support me because, like you said, I amdoing logisticics and I am doing planning, I am doing strategy but, likeI said, I leverage a lot of the people on my team. For most of this, I don'thave to. I don't wavt to get up and do...

...anything in these thirty minutemeetings. H. We have once some one coaching. I just have to pick twopeople and say: What are you doing this working? Can you come in and talk aboutthat? So a lot of is just organization and paying attention and then, like Isaid next year, we're going to have the sales effect, an thiss manager starting January and they're going to take over a lot of theeffectivenissinitiatives, including things like coaching training,performance management and be able to really drill down on all the thingsthat I had some cool ideas about, but haven't really been able to buildbecause of the just time and ban with, like I said, one tide of my business istools. One side is training and an effectiveness really hard to give thosethings any less than allof my attention to make it work and keep moving atforward for sales managers that may belistening or sales enamblement managers. What are some things they can doquickly. They can level up their process that can improve thetraining and enablement that they provide to their teams survey. Their team don't be scared tostart with the people you're working with when you have an idea for aninitiative before I sit down in a room, ND and waste hours of time. Doing thething that I thinks the coolest thing in the world, I grab a couple of peopleon the four that I trust see: Senior sales raps managers that I know erereally excited about what they do and say: Hey here's Tha thing: recently weadopted lessonly as our eleme system and we're building out a lot of ourmanager affected misscurriculum there. So the First Workshop was coaching. Thesecond one is effective, one on ones in team meetings, so I partner with LND.They built this really nice training. So in the Batan Group I picked five orsix people that I knew would give really good feedback and we put themthrough the less fiendly path. First got all their feedbackback and then,when we were able to add some of that feedback into the program and then sendit back out to the team. And then we have a workshop schedule for next week,we're going to get down as a group all the managers, all all the leaders onthe Salles team and Diig into that. So I'm leveraging my partners across theorganization I'm leveraging tools that we already have and then that's thenext level like they got coaching on lock we're going to have the month,like thirty minute re CAP, we're going...

...to focus now on effective one on oneswhich is going to be more like tipelane management, odeveloping, yourselvesraps, giving them an IIDEA about what their future future escape should looklike in their role and then the last piece is going to be ourselv strategyin December. We're going to atually have the DPS and sales all come in theroom, talk about what we're trying to accomplish and then white board ways toget the managers engaged in driving that strategy forward. So at the end ofthe quarter, we will have finished three months of manager, effectivenessand BEBE, ready to jump into two thousand and nineteen with a prettysolid plan now have to imagine all of this training for your managers ishelping retain your top sales talent. Talk to me about how important thatthat absolutely is and kind of the Aral Li that you're getting out of all ofthese things. That you're doing yeah, I think Iam one of those people as you might beable to tell who gets bored easy, maybe I'dohis conversation I like to keepmoving, and I l like things that Ceap me interested I sold for like almost adecade, so I know how boring it gets in Sycon sales when you got your pibeoneyou're, making your calls and you're. Having a lot of the same conversations,I sed to ntertain myself up by doing different accents with prospects, likeI had to figure out a way to keep it fresh, and my one of my job here is I'mkind of the circus clown of the offics as well. I want to make sure thatevverybody, I'm juggling to make sure they're all smiling and happy to behere, but also giving people the path, Thi's really important, and I'velearned and we just developed ourselves levels to give people steps all the wayup to say: Hey, you want to be a professional salesperson and not amanager and not at sales, opps or not enablement person. Let's give you somelevels to work up through. Let's give you some objectives to hit when itcomes to training and learning, demonstrating your learning anding. Youknow specifically around like quotas and achievement attainment, and letpeople be able to move up in six months or a year into different levelhle, sothey can earn more money have a different level senority across theteam. So we ave different people to left frodge for initiatives, because Iknow I'm going to grab my level for senior people when I need to asksomeone a detaile question about ourselves: process wor he business andit gives me people to go to it- gives them things to do this different in theday today, because ther liberal ones...

...are doing different things in our levalfloors. The quality of the LEDS that they're getting the quality of theopportunities that they're going to be working, we're working on and reallybuilding a strategy, moving forward to isolate those skills that we expectitfrom everyone to each level and empower them and then to give them something toreach for and the training is also just opening the path in front of them. N.You can be the salesperson forever, be the sales pro or, if you're interestedin other things, I'm one of the conduints that helps provide them witha map to where they could go. Do you like marketing? Do you like salesoperations? Do you like training? You want to come work with me on my andtraining, or in sells en ablement, so yeah. A lot of it is just figure outwhat those different paths are and providing opportunities for people toexperience, whether it's shadowing or just having good conversations orpayring people up with he mentors they're a little bit further down thepath and other departments t so that they have more opportunities to growand then in real time it keeps people competitive on the floor, I'm a levelto that wants to get to a level three, I'm going to sell more, I'm going tofocus harder, I'm a level three or four that wants to be a manager. I'm goingto prove myself I'm going to go to meetings, I'm going to get involved indifferent initiatives, I'm going to give a lot of feedback so that I'm morepresent in my leadership team. So I think that creates a level ofexcitement, his ongoing. It always gives people something to stretch forand in having that stretch and all these opportunities and understanding Imean look at me. I started a the company as just a sale, this directorand they created the role to use the skills that they perceived me bringingto the company, and I put that forward when I'm talking to people. Maybe youdon't know what you want to do right now, but let's talk about what you'regood at and how that could benefit the company down the road and let us buildit: The sales effectiveness managers. A great example: that's not really a rolethat you hear about a lot I mean I haven't heard about it a lot, but partof my job is effectiveness, and I can't do all the things all the time, so theysaid Hey, let's, let's find this person, let's get them to come in reallyfocused on what the skillset needs to be and we put together really awesomeprofile for what we were looking for and our pimewline ond candidates, forthat is awesome like we have. The skill sets on lock that we're looking for andthe people that are applying ore right in the middle of that road, and itmakes me really excited to get that...

...higher on board and started I inJanuary, and because I'm insane all the time I already had ther in ninety dayplan written down- and most of that is the things that I don't want to do inthe next ninety days. So I'm pretty excited about getting this roll onboard. So explain me, you say you have these different levels of sales rolesright. So if you come in as a one you hit certain milestones, you can move upto two and so fort, so on and so forth. How do you balance that with businessneed right? Because you may have a team of level FORCS and there's no Wenr togo, because your business doesn't need anywhere to go up more yeah? I think because it's new wehaven't hit that wall. Yet we already have some creative ideas. When we getthere, we have some sales people that have been here. I think aure averagetenyears, like four years here, three or four years, which for sales team isOnte, yeahthey're, happy, they're, happy they're, making money. They seeopportunity the companies growing. I mean there's just a lot of excitingthings happen than it make people say. Well, we want to be here because wewant to see what happens next, but by the time you get to level four you'vebeen in sales for a while and you like being in sales and what we're findingwith most of our fours is they're about the money they want to cash, the paycheck and that's what they want to do, which is what level force for it couldbe. I want to be a team leader. I want to be a manager, but some people arelike. I don't want to do any of that, like we've grabbed a few people andsaid: Hey you've been here a while and you're really good. We should do thisand this and this e're Lik. No, I just want to make you know how much you'regoing to pay me to do. That is the first question and then, when it's notthe same number they're like I'm happy where I am so when you can get to levelfor which it takes sometonit to get to it's, not one of those things that,like everybody's, going to be lovel for next year, you're making a good enoughincome to where, if you just want to be here and sell and you're happy doingthat, you're going to earn well D- And you have some security in the positionby just maintaining. But we do ask a lot of our fors. Our force have thehighest quotas. Our fours are working on some of the bigger opportunities, soit's a push for them as well to be able to maintain, and then there's alsothings like presidents club bragging rights. We still have those things inplay which keep people pushing forward and EUR level. Fours are usually theones who are on those rips.

That's awesome, man, that's a goodthing! In a previous company, I worked at the the milestones needed to move upfrom like SDR one strto and so on. We're pretty attainable, AP ratherquickly. I mean you could hit those and you go to a two in the first threemonths. You can go to at three in t next four months and then you hitceiling, but it sounds like there's kind of a choosy, your own adventure.At that point, you can kind of o talk to the management and see if there'sroom in marketing or CS or enableman or whatever yeah and our cycle, it's a sixmonth cycle and you have to meet all the qualifications. You can blow outyour number for six months, but there's a training track with five competenciesand if you haven't gotten all the way through that which is a it's a littlebit of dedication, it's going to be probably require an hour two hours amonth of just getting through all of the training content and going to thecourtses. You have to go to to satisfy that to move forward. So, if you'reresting on your laurels- and you hit your number even if you blow your quoteout you're like a hundred and twenty five percent and you're happy to behere- can't get promoted. If you haven't satisfied all of the CRITERImove to the next level, and that's one of the things that we're finding out,we have people that are hyperaggressive when it comes to. I will do everythingI have to do and then push to get that number to, and then those promotionsare easy to happen on cycle and thereare people that are just happy tobe here and as long as they're performing D, we're happy to have them.At's awesome chat. If there's something you want to leave our listeners withone takeaway, what would that be start simple? I know we went through amillion different things here, the seed of the idea and getting the Byin of thepeople that are going to be executing. It is crucial. The first thing that wedid was have the conversation and it led us Dow on a path. It's been amazingand really fruitful, but if I didn't sit in the room with twenty people andsay why will this work? Why won't this work and make sure that I had a bunchof champions on board saying this is the right first thing to do, becausecoaching that seems like it's not a left field to be the first tool that weset up to be the first idea that we have. But you know in the back of theheads of the leaptorship, we thought this is the biggest Bangin for our buck.We get a group of managers, Wo Become Better a coaching. We get people thatare better on the phone. We give our...

...customers a much better experiencethrough talking to people who getting coached and paying attention. That'sgoing to take us somewhere great, and it has so start simple and get the Byonof your people make sure your leadershipsoonbord a if everyone's onthe same page and you move forward as he group you cre, you create a cultureof what, if you're, trying to create instead of just a project or aninitiative, and I think changing the culture is what creates success inmomentum, especially in your situation at Ondeck. You've been very proactivewith this right. A lot of people bring in coaches because they recognizethere's a big issue and it's kind of too late that the sales process hasbeen broken for a while the culturehas been broken. So I love the fact thatyou are getting out in front of all of these things and building theseprocesses ahead of time, so that you don't have to go back. Oh Yeah, when you want to make a change,and you have a coaching culture where people are sitting in the room withtheir managers. Anyway, we can enforce that change immediately. I look at T,like an army, with our generals out front, we're all marching in the samedirection if we were pointing in all different directions, there's going tobe too much friendly fire to get anything done. But when we're allpointed in the same direction, our leaders are focused. Our managers aregiving the same consistent message in our team, which clear what's expectedto them. We move forward in the same direction and we can a move a littlebit faster because we're all going together chat if people want to get ahold of you just to pick your brain or learn more about ondeck. How can theydo that? If you connect with me on linked in that's the best way to get me,I put on my real contact information on there. So if you con ECT, you can getmy number my email all the ways. My favorite thing in the entire world istalking to my network Tryi, to schedule two o three conversations and week withreally smart people. I know I have lunch with my friend Max from outr eachearlier this week and I ficked his brain got. Some really cool ideas cameback and excited, so I love doing that. If you're in New York City look me up,we can have coffee if you're not emails, greater I'm happy to do a face to facewebmeeting anytime as well fantastic. I want to thank you forbeing on the SHOWTO Day, Chad, great stuff and good takeaways, for peoplethat want to implement a very effective Nablemant and coaching society inThadoor Company. It's fantastic, and I...

...want to take all of our listeners fortuning in today, and we will see you next time on the sales and game Ompodcast. Thank you. This was another episode of the Sales Engagement podcastjoin us at sales, engagementcom for new episodes, resources and the book onsales. Engagement coming soon to get the most out of your sales engagementstrategy, make sure to check out how reach te IOF. The leading salesengagement platform see you on the next episode.

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