The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

How This Former Kindergarten Teacher Is Teaching Sellers To Stand Out w/ Josh Braun


We hear from Josh Braun, who shares with us his secret tool for getting the sale--and it's probably not what you think. Josh is a former kindergarten teacher who is bringing his teaching skills and insight to the B2B sales game and we're excited to have him on the show to talk all things engagement. Tune in!

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast,this podcast had brought you my outreach, Ottaio H, leading sales ofEsan Platform, helping companies, sellers and customer success engagedwith fires and customers, and the modern sales eror check out sales, anagcom for new episodes, resources and the book on sales amgagement. Comingsoon. Now, let's get into today's episode, everyone welcome to the salesengagement podcast. It's made more consaguen the BPCLS at outreach orleading sales engagement platform in the universe, and I have with me one ofthe fourmost experts on sales engagement in the universe, Josh Brownwit up Josh Mark. Thank you so much for having me on the big show my friend,I'm honored. I hear that they call you the Heman of sales engagement. Is thattrue? As long as you call me that, then, that's all that matters to me o'sAwesome Day, is my little nine year old son watched some show on Netflix thatabout old toys and fell in love with Heman, so we literally got like twentyHeman action figures for his birthday and there's nothing cooler thanwatching your nine year old play with all the toys you played with as a kidtat is the best you sound like you are dad of the year. My friend I found Al Correction. My wife foundtrap jaw, which is a guy of the hook that can slide down a piece of twinetwenty feet and basically has it done anything else. For the last three weeks,it's been awesome. I'm concerned that your son has a hook, but we could talkabout that later. Why tells us a little bit aboutYourself Josh? Why are you interested in sales engagement to me a little bitabout what you do so my first sales job was a kindergarten teacher mark. Idon't even know if you new that and I was selling reading and the love ofwriting to five yearolds, and that is a tough sale. My friend, and so I learnedther early on that teaching and selling and helping are all intertwine, so Ihave roots an education. I later went on to work at Nickelodeon Studios,where I wanted to go into video and ended up twonoing students on the sidein between takes and really loved teaching. So I spent the first part ofmy career teaching and then the second half of my career selling, and it turnsout those two things are pretty much the same. I can honestly say: I'venever met someone that worked at Nickelodeon that I knew for Clarda. When I sid worked atMecoronyand, I sliced the melon for Malissa John Hart on a show calledCLINISS expains. It also, let's just clarify exactly what I did, but I am inthe credits so its all I camp. That's awesome. So tellme a little bit about what you do now. Yes, so now I help sales organizationsget more meetings with practically anyone they want to. By creatingoutreach, tbut actually puts a smile on people's faces, and the second thing Ido is once you have those conversations: How do yo take those conversations andturn them into revenue, and I work with inside sales teams to accomplish bothof those things yeah. So one reason we wanted to have josh on the PODCAST ISHE OAVE had a couple webenars together and several conversations he's one ofthe most creative, interesting people. I think in sales in the salesengagement world right now, and one thing that hit does is, he puts verythought, provoking well written, Ten, second reeds on linked in prettyfrequently and a couple of those caught. My Eye- and I said: Hey like Joshwrydot. We talk about these on the podcast, and so why don't we talk abouteach of those Josh today, in this context of trying to get meetings bymaking people smile and turning things a little bit differently than a way?Most people are doing sales engagements, Soun Cool Yeh. So let me let me tellyou a story and then we could talk about the learnings and theapplicability for you as a salesperson, specifically on a discovery call. So Iwas in the mall trying to kill some time. As often I am when my wife isshopping and stumbled into fit to run,...

...which is a running store now. Myhewmark I had just bought running sneakers about a month ago. Didn't havea pain, didn't have a problem by running sneakers nearly went in thereto just kill some time. So if the sales associate walked up to me and said Joshwapings you in the store today, I would have said I'm just browsing if thesales associate her name is Lizz. If she asked me, can I help you a Wuldhave said no, I'm just browsing. If she said you have a problem, Wif you're,running sneakers, I would have said nothe find I just brought them no sale,but Wiz didn't ask any of those questions. Instead, she asked thisquestion now. Listen to this mark. This is a pretty interesting question. Shesaid Josh. When was the last time you had your gate, checked hm I'm gonna get, she said. Never Ididn't even know what the hell that was, that tell yo honest, so my responsorwas what do you mean, and so, with that one question she was able to get me to start tothink differently about something I had never considered before. In this case,whatever the heck of gate was and moments later, I was on a treadmillwhich they had set up in the store with a camera, and I'm taking this thingcalled a gate test which apparently checks to see. If you have a ponatedfoot turns out that I in fact did have a pronated foot. You can actually see apicture of this linkedin and because my foot was ponated and because I runwrong distances, the shoes that I had were going to be prone to injury.Specifically once you start getting into half marathon distances, and soshe said hey, because those shoes aren't met for pernated feet, you runthe risk of getting injured, now check out what she did their mark. She mademy shoes all F, a sudden, not safe, all of a sudden, the old Jewish guy,with the fear of getting injured, running long distances. As nowinterested, I had a problem I didn't know. I had she dad me thinkdifferently and the current thing that I had was no longer safe, Alwath, onequestion and ps a hundred and fifty dolrs later I bought the shoes and MarkMiss Sales Guy. What do you think the takeaway here is of that lesson thatlives dead? Well, I think there's a couple. One is don't approach you theway that everybody else approaches you so you're engaged with. You engage withher and it. Secondly, is ask a question that invites some kind of inspectionwhere a potential problem can show up. That's what I'm reading? How did I do ahundred percent right, and so we talk a lot about discovery, calls we we'reasking people about their problems and they're all fraing the same right. Youknow, typically, when I work with HR directors, they're struggling with abian sot. I don't suppose any of those resonate with you do they know. If lasask me that question typically Josh when people come into the store, theyhave bad sneakers theyre looking for socks, whatever those true things are,would have said. No, that the thing that's unique about whatwis did and what I would ask sales people to do is find a question foryour business that', similar to the gate question. We could talk aboutanother example as well, but that question gets me to think differentlyabout something that wasn't even on my radar before, in this case pronatedfate that I didn't even know I had so it's about finding problems not aboutasking for problems and the best sals people that I've ever had the pleasurebof meeting, find problems and find opportunities and show people what'spossible rather than just asking for problems I', be interested to know likewhat is the exercise you would take someone through to help discover whatone of those questions might be, because it's easy to say. Well, Heyjust look at it figure it out and get your version of it, but like how wouldyou guide someone to that process? Let's not talk about it. Let's do it,let's go without reach W, let's do without reach, so I have a customer, aprospect. It doesn't matter who it is and they have an inside sales team andthey're, currently sending out emails...

...using traditional tooms like outlookand te crating tasks and sales FORC to be able to follow up. So let's talkabout a gat question for someone like that that could be a potential outrage.Customer I'm GNA ask you to put on your thinking, Hatmark and I'm Gn- I'm gonnahave put on my thinking at to, but let's actually do this in real time.What is something that someone might not be thinking about because to themthis is, I don't have a problem sending emails. I send it. I go into my setmail, I send the other one. I create tasks. If I don't have a problem, I'mdoing this job. What question could we ask to all of a sudden get them tothink? What do you mean? What are you talking about? Well, I think that asking people theyunderstand exactly how long it takes to craft and to send out an email peremail. They sendd is an interesting question right, thit's, one that wethink about. A lot is like, if it's taking you five or six minutes to doall of the mechanacians and clicks and screens and tabs to send something outversus thirty seconds. That's a lot of productivity lost ther. So let's,what's the question thow you're, giving me a statement here, I'm going to pressyou a little bit on this. Remember Yeah! That's this was Jash. Have you ever had a gate test? That's asimple as it was like. Have you ever had a Gat test, alotosame level ofsupplicity I'd say: Have you ever measured how long it takes someone orlooked at how long it takes someone to send an email yeah I mean that's agreat question or another one that I might say is have you ever consideredhow you can have three less sales people and still get the same number ofmeetings? That's a good one right! I mean like here's anotherexample right, let's say I'm selling a smart, lock, so smart rocks, I can openup with my thumb, finger print Blu teoth are my phone as opposed to just akey. So I might ask someone what happens when you're out to dinner, andyou realize you forgot to lock your door. Oh my God, I'm he screwdsomeone's Goin to come in. That's I don't know what happens when your kidsare standing outside your door and tendergroe wreather in Chicago and theyrass the key. How do they get in and you're not around Gee, I don't know that's a problem. Idon't know what we woeld do in that situation. So when you think me you're just reallynaturally good at this, I don't think a lot of people. You know you're in a ata different level than a lot of people like you can. Just if I said, Hey,listen, give me one of those questions for my son's Nintendo switch. You couldcome up with one for that, just like off the top of your head so like. Howdo you think about it? Where do you go to come up with that question tes? Wewe have to figure out what is meaning fo when I sy mooningfully different, Imean why does it matter to the prospect? So it's not enough to say outreach ispurple and we're the only ones with the purple logo, or were the only ones thathave this aby technology whatever that is, that might not be meaningfullydifferent to the prospect. So we have to understand what is the prospectdoing whit's their job now, and how do we make that job better right? What'sthe job e're doing now, and how do we make that job better and from there wecan start to ask a question that closes that gap right, so the job I'm tryingto do is get into my house. If I lost my key, I'm no longer able to do that,and so to be able to close that gap. We have the smart technology right withoutRach the job I'm trying to do really isn't to send emails. That's not reallythe job. The job I want to do is book meetings and I want to do it with theleast amount of money in the least amount of Hous postle possible. So haveyou considered raising what you can go from booking five meetings to tenwitrhout, adding any additional people? Yea Ben? You know it's not aboutsending more emails, N and automating this and automating that that's a ameans to an end, so step number one is understanding where the prospect is now and what other things might they not bethinking about, and how do you help close that gap so with Liz Ge? I wonderif Josh is thinking about permated feat? That's one problem we solve. I wonderif he's thinking about other problems...

...that we solve, so it will start withlisting all the types of problems that you help: People Selfe and thenfiguring out what questions you can ask to be able to get people to say what doyou mean? I haven't thought of that. What are you talking about yeah and I'mnot sure people have heard everybody's Hurd, yet your Mario fireball thing,but this goes right back to that, so give us a little lesson on Mario andfireballs yeah and for clarting. This is not mine. This is a from useronboarding, so foor credit to those folks, but it's a really great analogyfor understanding, features and benefits, and it sort of goes like this.If you guys remember Mario, was a character in a video game and he had aproblem mark what was Malias probem. I don't know if Youve remember this. Whatwas Malio's problem? Oh, I know exactly what it is. My kids play still playthis game. They have the little squat mushroom, dudes or wanting to eat them.That's the problem. Bowdacan Bo back in my day was Princess Peach, yeah, IAScaptured by Gozer, and she was held up in a tower. So your customers have aproblem too. So for Marro. The problem was princess. Peach is in the castleright in order for him to get Princess Peach he jumped on a flower and thatflower gave him a fireball and that firebar was the thing that allowed himto defeat the monsters and ultimately rescue peach. So here's the analogy:Mariol, that's like your prospects. They have a problem. The Flower is thething that you sell, but what people buy is the fireball the thing that youallow them to do better so back to out reach it's not about the marketingautomation technology. That's the flower, that's the! What what peopleare interested in is how that makes them happier. I use out each every dayfor my business and I'm not just saying this because I'm on a podcast, I say toeverybody, and I recommend it to everyone that I work with, because itmakes you happier how does it make you happier? It allows you to book moremeetings that are higher quality, that converted to revenue with less people,so lower acquisition costs, that's the Fire Ball. So in your business wefigure out what the fireball is. That's, what people buy? We figure out theproblems and then we work backwards to come up with the questions. So you have this story about the gaythat rike really says. Hey Way to engage. Someone is to ask a questionthat causes them to consider. Do I have this problem or not to that? You canhave a great conversation that maybe they don't have the problem. Maybe youwould have said Hey, you know. No, I KDON'T I've never taken a gate test.You would have taken it and she' been like hey. Your shoes are perfect. Iguarantee you would have come back to her later in the future right, but soyou have another story of Unlinkin that you did about someone, because you weretrying to get your roof power washed right, yeah yeah so make a great point.The mirke I want to. I want to stay on that for a while. When do you educatethis gets back to the roots and teaching right all great sales. Peoplecan learn a lot from from teaching like read some books on teaching andpedagocy right and when you teach someone something you don't know, you've been in this situation too march.I'm sure if you've been a seminar and someone taught you something and you'relike wow, that was super smart, I'm a little bit smarter now than I wasbefore I stumbled across this person. It feels good and you're automaticallyAttractiv to that person. I mean Jason Fod, my body over a base camp, cause itout teaching the competition right when you can teach someone something theydon't know that can make them happier. There's a hero effect around an that'sexactly what happened when I was looking to get my roof pressure cleaned here in southFlorida got three beds and two of the bids were about the same,and one of the bids was about twenty twenty five percent higher, but thatguy did something very different right: it's cleaning the pressure, clianing aroof, it's a pretty commoditized thing like appin machine, but how wis thisguy able to get twenty percent more money, and why was I glad to write thecheck? Here's what he did...

...when he came over to the house. He saidyou know Josh. Would it be? Okay, if I educated you a little bit on thepressure cleaning business because you might not know about it since you're,not a pressure, cleaner and, of course, I said share I mean: Isn't it justpressure cleaning, RIII GOE S? Well, one of the things you have tounderstand is that there's different types of pressure cleaners- There'sguys like me that have been doing it for twenty years and that's all we dothere's other people that look on some tack and see that you want yourpressure, your rooth pressure, clumed and then just sip over to hun depo geta cheap pressure cleaner and just do it on the weekends. And so we have to askif people are insured, because if they don't have this very specific type ofinsurance, then you might not be covered. If something does run, notJash, I notice you have Spanish tile roots, you have extra ones- and I saidmeidonagoes hat's good to tme, because if you're not with us, if we break atall roof, which we hope we dont well find hete exact roof tyle and willreplace it at no extra charge. So it's important when we're shopping to makesure. But you ask the question: Do People have the proper insurance nowfor all? I know they did, but it didn't matter because he was first, I believethem. I was educated and I signed right there on the spot. It's a great exampleof bringing incremental value and safety to the sale. It's kind of crazy,too that how much we almost feel like thispsychological need to think the person that took us up a level and Getabusiness pay im more or whatever, even if maybe we feel like somebody does itjust as good, but I don't know there's something weird about humans. That'slike that, its o! Thank you, SS, a good part of humanity. I guess I ii'll giveyou one more example to your point mark. I was bitding out a job to get my salesworkshop, video taped. I got three beds, five hundred Buckseach, the fourth guysaid. Can I call you and ask you some questions the only one on Tom Tack,sure he called and said: Hey have you considered interviewing people after the sessionand you could use those interviews as Testimonias on your site? No, I didn'tconsider that great. Have you also conthat's an extra couple hundred bucksButi wanted it? Have you considered adding a second Caben, so we can getthe reaction to the audience so that we can make the video and thereareinteresting. Now I have to consirder that I want that Se de chopped up theput on ontome, so it's chapters the trailer made, so you can see what hewas doing. That's what I call value selling, not about like the allli stuff.It's like incremental ideas to make me happier. She brought those on soinstead of five hundred bucks, he was twelve hundred and I was glad to payhim glad to pay him because those ideas made me happier. How do you translate that over intosales engagement? So how do you have that o that first cold email first codecall? How do you kind of create those same sort of moments? Because yourstories are both like Hey, I woent and ask somebody for something and thenonce I'm engaged there giving me the information, how do you do it?PREENGAGEMENT Yeah, so a couple thins with the adon store with thevideographer, I think anyae you probably are selling multiple types ofproducts. You probably help solve multiple problems at the end of thesale or certainly during the honeymoon stage, simply ask a question: Have youconsidered? Did you know ou Ar Soself, and if you did that, I pretty muchguarantee not fifteen or twenty percent of the time somebody will reon forardin ten percent of that time, Bo bye, but for whatever reason we just don'task that question. I M A simple: Don't ask that question with regards to thetop of the final to your question mark we can go back to that Sarmin exampleand ask one of these TAT provoking prodding questions that make peoplefeel think differently. So, if I was writing an email, I might say somethinglike have you ever gotten your gate checkedButif you haven't. These are some of the things that you might not be awareof. Would you like to learn more ye...'the S, it's a same approach, sameexact approach, but the actual ad on for the incremental videographyrservices. That would happen at the a level sort of at the end of the saywhen someone bought had that ad on stuff or very shortlyafter the sale once they'rein the honeymoon stage yeah. I was just talking on a previousepisode, David Delani, and about sales engagement, strs, and you know, as moreand more compani spit up str shops as activity becomes a commodity. You knowyou used to could say three R four years ago that your level of activitywould be a differenttiator n performance is not anymore, and so asmore and more people do more more activity. There's more and more noise,like people used to say I, it was noisy ten years ago, andtip in two o threemore years, it's going to be even noisier you're, using these kind of asstrategies to like break through the noise right and get that initialreaction of curiosity. That causes it to keep going totally Mans your point.This Guy David Trot who's an old Ad Guy, real wise guy. You should google him upon Youtube, Heehas, a really great anawlogy. You know you- and I havetalked about this mark. It's like, if you think, of the emails that you'resending out, especially if you're using just templates off the shelf. Thoseemails are like white circles to your prospect. They all look the same. So ifa prospect gets nineteen of these white circle, emails, moning, you're, justfilling in the blanks of these templates that you found and you're thetwentyth one. You get five percent of their mindsharejust because you're a white DOT 'm. So in order to get more mindshaire, youhave to be a little different. You have to be a red X and when your REDX, whenyou're different meaningfully different, we could talk about how and I know,Mark Yu and I've done a podcast on this. Something really happens interesting tothe brain. All the right. DOTS go over to the left side and the Red Ecx stands by itself on theright side. So just by being different. Just by sending a green envelope in themail, you now have attention fifty percent and because thebrain puts all the things together that it recognizes into a pattern. That'swhat you get really walmark! I know when one of our first jhams and I hadto kind of Co cal me and that you started to Co carn an mastor, far wayyou're going to Co. Come me about outragand. You said something to theEffectaf Han. I might Putchon this Josh Man. This is mark from out reach. I wasan you site and it says that you know people book more moonings using somedifferent things that make people smile. Tell me why that tell me how how thatstrue I dodn't believe you. It was something like that and I was like allof a sudden defending myself and it was such a great red x moment to just kindof jump in there and you do that really. Well, I think, on some of thecokecalling stuff that I've heard you talk about yeah yeah, he said thatpattern. Disrupt is so big WBUT. You know, I'm lucky work for a trade bossmet Mial, and he taught me about that. He went for twenty robins for years andthat's one of the things Tony robins talks about a lot is like your Bab.Your brain is meant to identify pattern and once it identifies a pattern, itknows the way that it should act and act that way and it kind of goes backinto cruise control survival mode. Looking for the things of danger, AndsoWHONC, you start to understand that you really get the fact that, like you knowwhat man like people out, there are looking for something that's differentand not you know you can say that in a cliche way, but it's actuallybiological and when they see something different, they cannot help but toanalyze it to see if it's friend or foe and to Cin O lout to that even guys end.The discovery calls like I'm on a lot of discovery calls I do a lot ofcoaching and these discovery. Cars are very much starting in a white circleway now, but somewhere along the way. Someone read something about setting anagenda, and so do you have thirty minutes? I'm going to ask you somequestions. You can ask tme some questions and at the end of the moning,we're going to decide o? U, O, you guys, have seen all this Samler ask wher toset up a meeting, but what I've been coaching people on and what I've beendoing is something a little bit more red acx. So I was on a disco call acouple weeks ago and I saw a VPM sales... a YouTube vidyo having a a companyParty and she was wearing with red red, bright red pants right ND. So I got onand Wen guys the first second of the call soon as she jumped down Thazoom. Isaid Visa Tet Pants for a holiday party. Do? U is that required to get into youholiday party? Can I wear blue pants is yellow permitted and all of a sudden,the energy of that meeting, completely changed and she was smiling and theguard went down. is nothing better to rower our guard than what marked IDwhen he well played co called me or when I do with the jeans, so I'mbegging you guys to come up with your own red ax. Even if you start a meetingin not wery, try it now wer bond, sometimes maybe even the best comediansbomb, but what's the alternative he white circle yeah, I think that's the thing ispeople are so scared of bombing but bombing and being the white circle. I'dsay the percentage of difference in your overall effectiveness is aboutzero of, whereas the the benefit of the risk of the red X is so great. You haveto go after it totally agree. Well, hey man he's been a greatdiscussion. I think that maybe you and I should have another one soon aroundthis like red, acting stuff. I think it's just so interesting. I lovetalking to you every time really appreciate the time. Where can peoplefind you? How can people get Ahold of you, you guys so Il plue the book? So Ijust read that it's not actually a book bark. This is a new thing. It's calleda living book, meaning it's a Google dock medum that I add to it everysingle month and it's a book of plays some of Whit. You heard on this podcasteach play is a page and each play helps you either book more means or closemore des, and if you want to learn more about it, sales, DNAOL, Badass, theresthe landing page and you can grab a copy for you or your organization thatsells the NATCO SLA Badass boom and Gota encourage you to go check it out.The one thing that's great about being around smart creative people is, itmakes you more creative and I think, just going to that book. Reading itlooking for some other stuff, Josh is doing on Linkdan, followed them onLinkin, just seeing his creativity and how he thinks about things willautomatically raise up your level of creativity which will make you betterat sales engagement. So, thanks again, just for the time of the day, man Prettsure the marktens fore, having e on Yep and so gods hey. This is wrapping up otthis episode of the sales engagement podcast. We will see you on the nextone thanks a lot. This was another episode of the SalesAgagement podcast Jonus at sales, engagementcom or new episodes,resources and the book on sales mgagement coming so to get the most outof your sales and Gatin strategy, make sure to check out out reach o io theleading sales and metl pot. So you on the next episode.

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