The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

How Role Specialization Leads to a Seamless Customer Experience w/ Roy Raanani


Role specialization is becoming more and more important to the customer experience.

Roy Raanani, CEO of, joins us to chat about how the conversational intelligence leader creates a seamless customer experience (and how you can too).

If you want to take at a deep dive into the mind of customers to improve their experience, this is the episode for you.

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast,this podcast is brought to you by out reached at io the leading salesengagement platform, helping companies, sellers and customer success engagedwith buyers and customers in the modern sales era, check out salesengagementcom for new episodes, resources in the book on salesengagement coming soon. Now, let's get into today's episode. Everyone thanks toget for joining us onanother incredible episode of these sales engagement, podcast, IM, erost,Jovin, Nello senior content, managing editor at out reach, and we haveanother fantastic guest on the show. Today we have Roy Renai, CEO of Koris,dot, AI and he's going to be talking a little bit about handoffs about theevolution of role specialization, a lot of different things, but before we GEdo that, I'm going to toss it on over to Roy who can introduce himself tellus a little bit about his background and more about chorus rea. They swouldbe on the show my pleasure thank yous. Much for having me so tell us a littlebit about chorus and how you got there yeah. Well, we started the company alittle over three years O go. I am originally from Toronto, Canada, so Iapologize. Afany of your listeners have trouble with my accent, but I startedoff studying engineering and built my career, doing technical presales for anenterprise software company, and so that was my first exposure to the worldof start ups, the world of Tech and working remotely on the phone workingdirectly with clients and just realizing how important thoseconversations are with customers and the impact that a good versus a badconversation can have on their experience and whether or not theyultimately convert and become a customer. So I spent about eight yearsdoing law, art scale, consulting to large technology companies andeverything from Syric Tisale to gold mines in Interior Alaska. Before goingback to my first log, which was building companies and realizing Tho,it was an amazing opportunity to help companies have better businessconversations by analyzing and improving their sales and customersuccess calls yeah and dchances. Our listeners have probably had someinteraction with chorus at this point. It's been a part of a meeting. They'vehad and full disclosure. ARGO to market team uses corus and Corus employees Eseoutread. So just want to get that out there. We love each other's products.So yeah that's get that clear in the beginning here, but I want to talk a little bit LE. Let'sstart at the beginning, here we're talking about handoffs, but it's reallyabout creating this. This cohesive and enjoyable and end customer experience.Can you talk a little bit about that yeah? It's! You know. It's reallyinteresting, because if you look at the evevolution, what we're really talkingabout is a move towards role specialization and if you put on yourcustomer Centr cat- and I know that all...

...of us think about how we can put thecustomer front in the center, the optimal experience for a customerwould be one person across the entire journey that can meet all their needsfrom initial contact to doing the discovery to getting the deal closed toservicing and delivering on the commitments that were made, and thatwas how we starteed, but over time, there's a lot of pressure that happensin organizzations and obviously we look towards role specialization. We startedthinking about creating a specialized role for people that would just focuson doing the outdound prospecting and creating that initial contact, and wehad accounted executives that are spending more and more of their time.Focusing on more qualified leads to improve that productivity and then, ofcourse, handing off the customer at that point to somebody specialized inservicing the account and making sure that ther our needs are being met andon the plus side of that you're. Getting a lot more efficiency, becausewe know how different those motions are. We know that we have very differentways of compensating and rewarding people. We know that we look fordifferent types of skill sets, and so there were all of these benefits thatcame from that specialization. But every time you have a process andthere's a boundary or an interface, you introduce complexity, you introduce theneed for coordination, costs and there's a real risk to the customerexperience if it isn't done well, and so I think that in any organizationthere's an opportunity to think deeply about the customer journey. Thinkingabout those interface is thinking about who, in the organization owns what partof it is it. You know in many organizations the XDR teams may reportinto marketing, and then it gets handed over to sales, which is in e separateorganization, and then it gets handed over to customer successs, which mayyet again be a separate organization, and so really thinking about how tostructure the organization how to structure the incentives. How to makesure everybody's working together is where the team work comes into play atthe leadership level. Wl. Let's talk a little bit about those challenges thatcome with the benefits of world specilization. I mean it can be toomany cooks in the kitchen, but as we've found over time, this is the correctprocess. But it's not without challenges. Talk a little bit about thechallenge that you're seeing as these as all of these organizations workingtogether and then how can you overcome tothem yeah? I mean my my first pointmore my I should say my first observation from working with hundredsof companies that are customers of ours that we try to help with this problem.Is First and foremost, very little of it is intentional or as intentional asyou want it to be, and so at some scale at some level of scale, things don'thappen by accident, like everything has to happen intentionally, and thechallenge, of course, is information which is the corner stone of all ofthis is what gets lost. So the first thing that we tried to do is figure out. How do we understand whatthe most important information is to a...

...customer and make sure that thatinformation's being captured make sure that it's getting shared with everybodythat needs to be involved? The second thing that we look for is creatingtrust, and especially in high growth organizations. Sometimes things slipthrough the crack and if there isn't a presumption of trust between the folksthat are working together, that things aren't being done. You knowintentionally they're, just maybe not being done, because it's not documentedin the process or the process isn't being executed as well as possible, canlead issues so thinking through. How do you build tight relationships betweenthose teams so that they understand that they both have the customers bestinterest at heart? And if something happens, it's an opportunity to getbetter. It's an opportunity to learn from it to improve the process and notcreate any additional tension, and then, thirdly, I would say it's aboutcreating a really tight feedback loop so that as you're learning and as you're doingthese handoffs t, let's say, for example, that an xdr schedules, ameeting and the account executive ens up taking that meeting anddisqualifying the opportunity in many organization happens all the time right.In many organizations there may not be a feedback loop wore the accountexecutive shares that feedback directly with the xdr right to basically say:Hey Joe, really appreciate you scheduling this meeting for me by theway twenty minutes in we started digging into this, and it turned outthat they actually didn't have this aspect of our ICP, which means they'renot ready, which is why I'm sending it back to you and so thinking about howdo you create a process where you're closing that loop with the folks thatneed to you know that need to be aware such that you can improve the processsuch that there's clear, metrics and reporting on what is working, whatisn't working and going from there? I want to go back to trust a little bit,because, obviously, if without that feedback, Loup right and hen adisqualifies an account and the Fr, never knows why or the x never knowswhy. That takes a big hit to the trust factor right, you're, just you're inthe dark. You think I did all this work and you know thise guys just head thisgals just throwing stuff away. I'm sure you've come in to organizations whenthey started implementing chorus and you've seen that broken trust issueright there. How do you begin to repair that yeah? It's a really great question andyou're right. It's so important, one of the things that I think really impacts.It is a lack of transparency, and so you know one of the things and- and Iknow this you know this is one of the great implications of implementingsoftware like outreach when you start to get visibility into how manyactivities people are doing and that information becomes public to the teamand you start to see hey. You know this person. I can see why they'reperforming better, I can see what they're doing. Transparency helps solvea lot of issues with what we're talking about. Usually those interactions right,the phone calls or the meetings when the ate takes over are a black box, andso the conversation happens and there's... visibility to anybody, but theaccount executive of what happened in that meeting, and so it becomes. Hesaid she said once you implement something likechorus, and you can actually point to the conversation itself. You can answerthe question very easily. Was the opportunity not qualified, in whichcase here's a coaching moment for the BDR and the account executive? If yougive them the right coaching to say you know, Hey Rebecca whenever wee, do wedisqualify an opportunity? Let's really give? U Shout out to the xdr thatscheduled the meeting, because you couldn't do their job. We couldn't doour jobs without them and let's use it as an opportunity for you to coach themon what they can do differently or better or next time. That creates anopportunity to build trust and because the XDR can actually listen to thatcall that the AE had. They can see that hey. You know what you're right likethey were right. Bthis wasn't properly qualified and I can learn from that. On the other side, I'd there ave been alot of customers that, as they start pushing up market, the leads are maybea little bit less warm than they used to be. When somebody was coming in down,they were putting their hand up and basically saying I'm ready to buy andthat's transitioning to you know it's an outbound colder opportunity wherethe as have to work a lot more and maybe they're not used to the amount ofwork that they need to put in or the skills that are required on that callto convert the opportunity, and so they may unintentionally doesn't qualify itthinking this person's, not ready where, if their manager had heard thatconversation, they could say you know, you know what Joe. I actually don'tthink that this should have been disqualified. It might take a littlebit more work, but this is a part of your pipeline. Let's talk through whatwe can do to overcome some of those objections. Let's talk through some ofthe things that we could highlight to make to create the urgency around whythis is something that they should be looking at now, and so all of thattransparency, I think, helps create the trusts because you're not justoperating in a vacuum yeah. I one hundred percent agree- and I know we'refocusing a lot on xdr to AE handoffs here and you're, laying out a lot ofvery tactical things that people can do right away, but what about postsale?What about account executive to customer success and then by first Iwhat about when they gets tossed back on occasion, an you talke a little bitabout that yeah I mean putting my putting my customer centurtric hat onagain. I think it's you know for a lot of customers, it's really scary, to buya piece of software and not know whether or not it's going to play outthe way that it was promised during the sales process. It's a risk. It's a riskright and people. You know these buyers are oftentimes putting parts of theircareer on the line when they choose a vendor when they select to work withoutreach or when they choose to work with chorus, and so those initialconversations after they've signed the contract and it's you know in the pointof no return a lot of the time. They're not worried about the you know thespend or the you know the dollars that they're out they're worried about. Am Iactually going to be able to hit my objectives right? Am I going to getthat promotion ar I going to look bad...

...for leaning in to this particularvendor on this particular technology? And so I think that the trust pointthat we were talking about really comes into play and a lot of the time. The challenges that we hear from ourcustomers is that there, the the CSN doesn't necessarily have the fullcontext right. Imagine that there have been seven meetings involving multiplepeople where the account executive was running, the show really deeplyunderstanding their needs, but how much of that really makes its way into theCRM? How much like? How many of our account executives are reallyscheduling? A one hour call with the CSM to walk them through exactly whatthe expectations are. What it is that we committed to in the words of thecustomer so that the CSM can start the call feeling, like you know therewasn't a single missed, beat right like we talked about at the very beginning.Imagine that we only had one role and it was responsible for selling andimplementing and delivering the value, and so that's really the biggest challengethat we see and many customers get frustrated. If that informationtransfer doesn't happen and they're repeating themselves, it feels like abit of a bait and switch absolutely and it's yeah, I'm like mulling it over. In mymind, it's so difficult to make that experience on he on the Byer side to beso seamless, because you have so many people involved. I mean what are somejust like concrete takeaways right now today that our listeners can do to makeall of these handoffs better. I mean we've got sometimes as ar overpromising and now CSAs to pick up the pieces. We have SRS work, ING TheirButts off sourcing leads as ardceing things. Without the knowledge I mean,we've got over some things, but, like tiny little tactile things, people cantake away. I think the first thing I to going back to the a TCSM hand off thefirst thing would be there's real value in recording calls, and I'm not justsaying that, because the the so of a company that does it but Aes don't havethe time, and I think that we can all appreciate that it's very difficult forthem to make an hour t. You know sixty to ninety minutes to do a full hand offto the CSN, even though it's it's the right thing for the customer, I H andso being able to hand off very specific moments in key meetings, with theprospect to the CSM TAT that they can hear in their own words, what theprospect is looking for, what the expectations are is fantastic, secondly,putting things in writing right. So if you are creating a Mutaal close plan,if you're articulating what the commitments are, you're getting thatmutual buy and from the prospect becomes extremely powerful. Numberthree is, and I know that you can't do this for all deals for all cusotumors,but certainly as you move up market, we found that customer success can be areal differentiator in the sales process and so making sure that theaccount executives are trained on exactly what the CS process looks likeonce. A deal gets closed and can speak... it and even better. Ifimplementation is something, that's that's a key decision criteria for thebuyer, thinking about involving the CSN in one of the later stage, meetingsright and having them walk through. This is what the implementation wouldlook like. Obviously you want to make sure that you're only doing that fordeals that are very likely to close or that you have a good shot of at theright point in the sales process, but that also helps make that transitioneven smoother. I love that I love involving this. The the CSM in aladstage call, I think, that's you know. I don't think I've heard that beforeand I think at's it's super valuable yeah. We tend to do it a lot, becauseyou know I h with sales software. In particular, everybody knows the fear ofshelf where they they worry about. Are we going to buy something? Is it goingto be implemented? Is it going to be used and so for us, differentiatingthrough customer success as being a big winner for us in upmarket conversations,especially, and the second thing that we've done that's been extremelyeffective- is defining very specific stages for postsale in sales forcom,with very clear exit criteria, the exact same way that you have them inthe sales process, and so an example might be that the first you know,typically thirty days during the onboarding phase, you can't exit theonboarding phase until you have eighty percent plus usyour adoption right, sowhatever user adoption metrics you're looking for, let's measure them, let'smake sure that we're reporting on them and that becomes part of the stagegatefor exiting the onboarding phase. And so, if you do things like that, if youinclude an NPS measure, for example, you know the three things that we lookat our engagement, so making sure that eighty percent plots of users are onboarded and have become daily active users, making sure that there's ahighnet promoter score and then ultimately, looking for evangelism or acustomer referral right, and so those are very concrete types of things thatyou can think about and yeah I'd be curious. How many of your listeners arecreating separate stages postsale at the opportunity level to the measure.You know how long our customers spending in each one of those stagesand is their clear data that chose you know that wwe've hit certain milestones,that we know impact adoption, value and evangelism that eight percent numberit's really interesting, I'm imagining you have cs people there just bob down,I mean obviously with with tools like ours, people like them, they adopt thempretty easily, but for companies out there that you have to work pretty hardto get that adoption rigt up to eighty percent, I mean: Are you just hiringmore and more CS? People are on boarding, people like? What's I'm justblown away by? You can't leave that stage until you get eighty percent,that's a pretty high number yeah. I'm not I'm not really sure what to say. Ithink that a part of it comes down to product right and a part of it comsdown to change management, but we communicate those expectations to ourcustomers, so the customers that the...

CSM will actually say. You know hey joewe're going on board you, but I just want to be really upfront about what welook for. I don't consider onboarding done until we have eighty percent ofthe license seats as active users right as monthly active users, and once we dothat, we're going to do this this and this this is what we're going todeliver and then once we've delivered that I want to be able to come to youand ask you for a referral. That is my goal. That's what I'm being rewarded on!That's what I'm being measured on and that's Ourur goal. We want to make yousuccessful and then I want tot. I want to be at a point where I can. I can askyou know for you to refer us to other folks and it works, because theneverybody knows that we're all in the same page right and we actually sharethose score cards with our customers during the onboarding phase and beyond.So they see exactly where adoption is they see exactly where the value iswho's using who's not using, and then we help them drive that change throughthe ork mean. I I think, that's fantastic, andI hope that a lot of our listeners will start implementing someheng like that,because it just ensures success throughout the having the customer. You know having acustomer, I mean like you're, just you're, getting off on a good firststep and a good first impression and getting most of the organizationadopting your product and it's it makes everything a lot easier from that pointon. So if there was one takeaway rigt that our listeners could have- and youknow t if they've zoned out for the majority of the podcast Wat that be, Ithink the one takeaway would be spend as much, if not more time, looking atthe innerfaces or the boundaries between key parts in your sales process,as you do digging into a specific stage. So we all know how much time we spendreally thinking about the initial cold call and how to run it and how toimprove it. We all think about how to run a great demo or a great discovery.Call how much time are we spending thinking about that interface in thehand off and what we're looking for and how to measure if it's working and howto improve it and the hard part about that, is that the one person who ismost impacted by it isn't a part of the conversation they're not in the room atall, and how do you make sure that that voice is a part of the conversation andyou're putting them proten center, so that you can hopefully, hopefully wentoff of the back of the quality product that you have and on top of that maybeadd in the quality of your customer experience? Absolutely, I thinkeveryone rewind and play that one one more time, so it sinks in that wasfantastic right. If people want to get a hold of you and learn more about youor chorus, how can they do that sure things? So you can reach me on Linkdon,Roy Renani, R, a Nani or on twitter at Roy R, perfect and also go tocorastadei, I'm sure to learn more about your product. Absolutely I want to thank you for be on the showtoday Roy and I also want to think...

...chorus for being a top tier sponsor ofon leash this year. Andlhe she's, coming up in March in Sundy San DiegoRol you en last year, whut D, you think of it on leash, was one of, if not the bestcustomer conference that Ih'd been to, we sponsored it last Yearas, a platinumsponsor, absolutely loved it there's something about people that there'ssome thing about on leash as tir outreach customers that feel likethey're, really, students of the game, and so I felt like I had some the bestconversations about the future of sales, the future of creating repeatable highgrowth, well understood, customer centric sales processes, and obviouslywe have a ton of mutual customers without rage, and so it was a greatopportunity for me to connect with customers of ours face to face and justhave a really great time. So we're excited to be a sponsor again this yearand an even bigger, more successful conference than last year, yeah,absolutely and idn't and roys exactly right. It's a great time to to connectwith customers. It was the first time I met Roy. We sat at the same table atone of the dinners and it was fantastic, and now here we are on a podcast I want to have. I have a special giftfor all of our listeners, as we said only she's coming up and if you go toOnleash, got outriach Oio and enter the Promo Code. Pod goals, that's pod goals,all in word, pod Goa LS get twenty percent off regular ticket price, so gofor it. We want to hang out with you down in San Diego Woy wants to meet you.I want to meet you everybody at out reachwonts to meet you so go and buyyour tickets and we'll see you down there in March when the rest of thecountry is drenched in rain and buried in snow, come down to the beach and getsome Sut Joe. Can I add one more thing? I just realized that we have a. Weactually have a special offer for outreach customers, and so, if you wanta full year of Chorus Dodai for outreach voice to automatically analyzeyour outreach voice calls you can sign up at start dot, Corus Dotai laoutreach voice. Awesome, that's perfect! I mean I wouldhope that everyone would at least give it a shot. Maybe da call you up and geta demo a Corus, because it's fantastic and it's a kind of fun to listen toother people's sales. Calls it's great like it. You feel, like o kind ofeavesdropping. A little bit. Don't worry. They know you're listening, butit's always a good time to hear help. People Pitch and talk to customers sogo check it out and thanks again, Roy for being on the show, if you like whatyou heard today, go to bitunes, give us a good rating or go to sales, an gatcomand subscribe to the podcast, and we will see you next time on these salesatement podcast. This was another episode of the sales engagement,podcast joinus at sales, engagementcom for new episodes, resources and thebook on sales engagement coming soon to get the most out of your salesengagement strategy, make sure to check out ow reach. Do Io the leading salesengagement platform, see you on the... episode.

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