The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

Growing Engagement Through Sales Development w/ David Dulany

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Mark discusses the importance of sales development to growing your sales engagement with David Dulany, Founder and CEO of Tenbound. Tenbound is a leader in helping SaaS companies build and develop their Sales Development programs. Tune in!

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast. This podcast is brought to you by outreach dot I oh, the leading sales engagement platform helping companies, sellers and customer success engage with fires and customers in the modern sales era. Check out sales engagementcom for new episodes, resources and the book on sales engagement coming soon. Now let's get into today's episode. Everybody, welcome back to the sales engagement podcast. On sales engagementcom. Super excited to have you. This time we have one of my oldest SASS SDR buddies, David Delaney, on the line. What's up, David? Has It going man? What's Mark? I'm happy to join you. How are you doing today, buddy? Good, good, Hey. So, why don't you introduce yourself real quick? Tell us where you work in what you're doing. Give us a little bit of a one. Sure. Absolutely so. I am David Delaney. I run a company called ten bound if. We do training and consulting for sales development for one hundred percent focus on sales development and so big fans of everything that you guys do over an outreach and just came off of the sales development conference, which was the first and only conference focus one hundred percent on sales development here in San Francisco, three hundred fifty sales development leaders at the Ritz Carlton Back on August thirty. So excited to talk with you more. You are probably one of the first dudes I ever met that was just like Liv in the SDR, sales development thing, like way back when, like four years ago, and you know it was still a little bit of a new concept. What attracted you to that specialization so early? Yeah, absolutely. I mean it started back when I was a sales wrap. I sold sales training for about seven years at a company called achieve global, and one of the things that we really struggled with was just getting in front of new customers and setting an appointment. So it's always something that had fascinated me, like what is the process of getting in front of new customers and being able to set sales appointments and that intersection between what marketing is doing, what the product organizations doing, what sales is doing, and so when I joined the team at glass or I went to my manager and just pitched hey, you know, why don't we start a sales development team here? We had pretticular revenue from Aaron Ross and they had had success at sales force doing it and glass door was a subscription. He gave me enough rope to hang myself. We ended up starting the program and it became successful and the rest is history. I mean, ever since then the sales development world has just exploded and outreach and products like it have been a big part of it and it's been really, really interesting. It's still really interesting to me every day that all the different aspects of it. It is kind of funny. It's almost like this contagious...

...disease, like once you really start thinking about that one little aspect of sales, of getting people on the phone, getting that meeting book, maybe doing qualification, if you're letting your strs go that far into the process, like it really becomes like this awesome playground of things that tinker with. Right. Yeah, I mean it's a tremendous amount of creativity has to be involved and also coordination. I'm probably add I've never been dying sales, but I tend to be interested in a lot of different things and the cool thing about sales development is that it gives you a little taste of so many different parts of the go to market, you're talking to field events, you're talking to people running demand jet programs, you're talking to the sales team, you're talking to the operations. You knee deep in sales operations, and so it really keeps you interested and fascinated. And the other thing is it's a very important part of the organization. I mean it's a lifeblood. It's the oxygen that keeps things rolling and it's becoming more important every yet. So yeah, yeah, you can never have too many meetings. At least I've never heard of somebody that had too many. And it really is I mean it's like you think about revenue, is what keeps everybody employed. It it's like, yeah, I'm makes you attractive as the company and hitting your revenue targets. And then you just reverse engineer that. It's like, what does it take to create revenue? You need pipeline. Will was it take to create a pipeline? Will? You need to talk to people, you need to have conversations. But what does it take to have a conversation? Well, it's coordinating all the things. It's what we do every day as sales development professionals. And so you know, if you look at it that way it's like yeah, it is a very important department. So what do you say to people that are like, Hey, you know, we sell in such a way that, like, our guys have to eat what they kill, they have to hunt, they have to be out there and close in. Like they get soft and happy when all they're doing is taking a meetings from SDRs and stuff. What's your posture when people say stuff like that? I would say that totally makes sense. I would say that sales people will never be off the hook on prospecting. I mean, I'm a huge fan of Mike Weinberg and new sales simplified and everything that he writes, because sales people will always have your prospect. It's a huge part of the job. You've got to understand the market, you got to understand the territory, you've got to get on the phone and make calls. Whether you've been in sales for five minutes or fifty years, you've got a continuously prospect and so that never goes away and I think you're being super naive if you think that sales development is going to come in and solve all your problems. I actually think that that's a problem that we see out there in especially like the SASS technology world, is that people, there's a lot of finger pointing towards development, like you guys suck and that's why I'm not hitting my goals. And that is just completely the wrong attitude. I mean, if you're in sales, you have to prospect,...

...you have to hunt at all times and update. We used to call them your rolodecks, but you know, you have Linkedin, you know your first connection, like you got to build those relationships constantly in your territory. But it's also critical that when you're in there closing a deal, when you're on an airplane, when you're in a situation where you simply cannot prospect, there's somebody over there that's doing it for you and is helping you to fill your pipeline, because you can't, like if you're closing this huge deal in a board room in New York City, you're not making cold cause at that moment, you got to have a sales development department that's also helping you to fill that pipeline. So they work in connection. Long answer, but I hope, hopefully, that's that makes sense. Ye Know, I mean big question. It deserves a long answer. I think that it's super interesting to me that people will say on either extreme and I think balance is always the key and let in everything. I mean that's kind of a generic thing to say, but when you're balanced, like things are going well, when you're only relying on yourself, then you could get in trouble. When you're only relying on someone else, then they can get you in trouble. Why not just team up and make the best of it? Right? Yeah, Dude. I mean that not to totally shift gears, but that's like the constant argument of should I be cold calling a hundred percent, or should I be social selling or should have a emailing? It's like it's such a ridiculous argument because it's basically like I learned from Chris Beale at connect and sell, that you'd boil the whole thing down to conversations. Sales Development is about conversations and how you go about getting those conversations is just the activity that you have to do. For some people it's making tons of calls, it's emailing, it's social it's doing everything that you have to do, going to events, going to meet ups and stuff like that. You're trying to forge conversations with people that are either knowledgeable about your product or don't know anything about it, and talk to them about why they should potentially check you out, but that you could help them. It's this use whatever means necessary to forge those conversations. Yeah, hear, yeah, the Wise Chris beal. We I think we all owe at least a half a dozen interesting conversations to that date. Oh, I know, the guy is amazing. I mean he posts like all their stats every day on linkedin about what they're doing and it's just totally transparent about it. How they help their customers. Is Very wise man. He ghosted me on the conference this year, which irritated me because they were platinum sponsors last year. So, Chris, if you're listening, I'm a big fan and I want to get you back and here. God damnit. Hah Ha ha. He totally deserve that. One reason why I wanted to have you on, David, was because we're here to talk a little bit about sales engagement. But the first group of people that really embraced sales engagement and like took off with sales engagement platforms like outreach, where SDRs and you just had this huge conference with all these unbelievable minds that are talking about sales development...

...and tell me about two or three things that came out of that conference that people that are talking about sales engagement are discussing and thinking about. Yeah, I mean, I'm just too just on you to your point. Like I remember when we first started to try to do real sales development, like the modern era sales development, and it was like sales force and post it notes and excel files and like notebooks and death phone, which nobody even has anymore. And God, I mean the stuff that the sales engagement platforms like you guys have done is just like accelerated. It, I. Leaps and bound. So we're we're out of the Stone Age or actually into an era of effectiveness thanks to what you guys are doing. But coming out of the conference, yeah, I mean, dude, we have three hundred fifty of the top minds in sales development under one root for one day. And there was a few things. One is, during my keynote I touched on the dawn of the chief sales development officer and I went out on a limb. I'm here. Okay, I'm probably like five years early on this, but I even't talked to. Yesterday I talked to Holly Katsman at high spot who, if you're not aware of it, is just an amazing sales development leader and she reports directly to the team. I mean she could be the first chief sales development officer. I could see that happening. And the reason that I propose that, and I think the reason that it got so many like applause and everyone was screaming about how awesome it is, is because you think about sales development, it really is the connected tissue between so many different areas of the business as far as, like I was saying, field marketing, demand and sales operations, even product that at some point in the future, especially at the bigger companies, there's going to be someone on the sea level who's in charge of creating appointments for salespeople that lead the pipeline and revenue. And so I put it out there. It's up for debate. If anyone wants to debate me. I'm always on linked in every day. I just like things all day, so just jump on there. But I think we're going to see this chief sales development officer at some point in the next five years. I'M gonna have to bite in here. I'm going to take the bait. So is a ceasweek and a half, thirty seven people sitting at the table and a couple years? Is that what you're proposing? There's the chief content motter. This is the chief videographer, Guy, the CVG. Have I heard? I definitely you don't want to be on the ship, for sure, but if you think about it, think of all the different things that go into getting someone to sit down with you, to take a zoom meeting, to sit down with you at the table and talk about potentially looking into your product, if you think about the different departments that have to be running on all cylinders. We're talking field marketing, demand and operations, sales, even product when you think about it. The other big feat or that I took away from the conference was Liz Caine's speech on product led sales development...

...and talking about how the companies are actually morphemite products to lead from a premium perspective and then basing their sale development programs on falling up and getting people to flip from fremium to higher level packages. And some of the highest growth companies out there are following that model and they're building their sales development program to match that. And I'm again going out on a limb here, you could have what potentially were other sea level people eventually reporting into the chief sales development officer to make sure that everything's aligned and focused on getting sales people belly to belly with new prospects. Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of poking fun, but I think the point is valid that you be hard pressed to say that there's a function more important than creating pipeline. Mean, pipeline is oxygen, and you said earlier of revenue and well, I don't know if it necessarily needs a sea sweet place at the table. I do think that thinking of it as an entry level sales position, a place where you go like must your chops for a year so you can get a quote unquote, real job and the or a place for you to cut your teeth and all that kind of stuff really diminishes the impact and the level of importance that we place on the people that are doing that very difficult job exactly. And so I'm basically I'm taking it from the mail room all the way up to the thirty second floor with the three hundred and sixty view of several park so yeah, I mean it's just giving it that importance because, if you think about it, the dark sides of all the technology that's been created around sales development has been the amount of noise that's out there and how much more difficult it is to get in front of new prospects with all I mean, every Sass company now has a big sales development team that's doing exactly the same thing. They're using a lot of the same tools, they're using a lot of the same messaging. I mean there's just a ton of noise out there and it's getting harder and harder to get in front of prospects for your average Joe. So it becomes more and more important that you think of it strategically and put the support behind it as an organization versus just going Oh yeah, it's it's like an AF. Your thought like, Oh yeah, let's hire some people, like we're not really going to train an we'll just hook him up on outreach and there you go. Yeah, we a hundred phone calls every day now. Dude, we got up the game because from a macro perspective, you canomically like we've been in a progression here. For a long time the economy has been really good. We're do for some kind of correction. It's going to get more and more competitive. It's going to be get harder and harder to do this and if we don't take it seriously and look at it strategically, we're not going to be able to perform as well as we have them. So how are you thinking about? How you telling the clients to think about the fact that more and more companies are opening up SDR shops, more and more companies a habit, our shops are starting to put the importance and enablement...

...behind it to make those people really pay off. And so we used to say there was a lot of noise, but quite honestly, like just around the corner, there's so much noise that is going to make right now seem like a whisper. Like how are you helping people understand that? Like just because you spin up an str shop or you're good at it, doesn't mean that that doesn't guarantee you're going to cut through all that noise. Like how are you guys thinking about that? Yeah, I mean, and this is something that we talked about a lot and not a lot of people take as seriously and it's actually what we base are training on in ten bound, which is start with the buyer. Start with the people that you're actually going after and get a deep understanding of what they are dealing with on a daily basis. What are their paid points? How are they measured? What's a general persona of the people that you're actually talking to? Start there and really immerse yourself, like if there's any STRS, they're listening to this or SCR managers. Immerse yourself in the market place that you're calling into. Start they're like, read all the blocks, go to the conferences, interview the people that are in that role at your company. Just one of the best salespeople that I've ever met as names se heeled man Suri Oh, he spoke at your conference at you guys know. Yes, he'll. He's a man. We used to share a double lie that glass door and when he came in, like I could tell that he was like a rock star. But he immersed himself in the HR world and the recruiting world and just knew their vocabulary, knew where they hung out and I knew the things and started from that perspective and then he built in all of his knowledge about how glass door specifically met their needs and was able to really articulate that. But he what I see over and over again, and quite frankly, it keeps the lights on here over at ten bound, because that's what we help people with, is they start the sales development program by learning everything about their product and like what they do and all the bells and whistles, and it's like, dude, nobody gives a shit. Yeah, I mean, excuse my language, like people are very busy, they've got all those stuff going on in their own life and they're trying to solve specific problems. Then if you come up to him and you're like, dude, I can solve your problem and here's exactly the knowledge that I bring, here's the case studies and I can help you, then they will be able to have a conversation with them. If they lead with their product, if they leave with whatever they're selling, then it's just it's a get at and that's what I recommend. Yeah, it's kind of funny. I think a lot of people start with sales engagement and sales development thinking about what can we do with sales engagement and sales development, thinking about the prospects that we're going after rather than thinking, all right, what does that that person need? And when you start with that like prospect centric, non you centered just rolls from there. Because, I mean, listen,...

...the reason why sales people get characterized as use car salesmen and sales e and untrustworthy is because I know there's a lot of people that are that are just selfish and they're worried about getting the sale. They're worried about telling you what they can do for you rather than just being empathetic, sitting there listening, helping to understand and trying to help solve a problem, even if it doesn't fall in your favor. If you solve somebody's problem, they'll come back to you for the next problem that maybe you can solve for them in a way that sells your product. So yeah, I mean, dude, it's and believe me, this is way easier said than done. I mean there's a tremendous amount of pressure on salespeople to deliver the goods everybody's. The sales department is under the most pressure probably at the whole company for most of the time, you know, and and they they're looking for instant results, and what we have to figure out the balance on is it takes a little bit of study and patience and going out there and talking and getting to know your buyer and their world. And at the same time you're going to be under a lot of pressure to perform, and I think that's why people just abandoned like trying to figure out the market and figure out the buyer because they're under so much pressure they just have to perform, so they just send out like millions of canned spammy emails and they feel like they're they're doing something. Or people get into industries that they're really not interested in. It just it looked like a good brand and they need a job and they're like okay, well, now I'm selling, you know, router switchers to ID and they're just like, I don't really give a shit about this and I don't give a shit about the people that I'm helping, and so I'm just kind of putting in the motion. So you got to learn about the market, learn about the people, and then you kind of got to care about I have something that I can really help these people with, and you got to kind of care about it and look at yourself in the mirror and like do I really care about the people that I'm I'm trying to help here, or I'm just doing it for the money or going through the motions? So it's tricky. Yeah, no doubt. Well, Hey, yeah, I'd like to end our discussion by asking you what book, What Resource, which podcast, what blog do you read that helps you? Levels you up the most, gives you the most inspiration, helps you learn the most. Like where do you go to get outside of yourself to learn about sales engagement? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've got a few things. One is a subscribe to an email that comes every day called the daily stoic. Stoicism, or being STOIC, kind of has a stereotype of, you know, a cow in a field, you know, being helped with rain and just kind of sit there and kind her gout, but actually the stoicism is it's a really interesting philosophy on looking at life from a very realistic perspective, understanding what you can control and what you can't control, and trying to spend more time in the can...

...control, you know, aspect and really developing yourself as a person. So if folks haven't heard of that you can probably Google like daily stoic email list. I would definitely get on that because every day, you know, he just writes like a little passage and brings up some examples and gives you a little taste of stoicism and it's been it's been really helpful for me. Well. Thank you, Mr Delaney. As always, it's been in pleasure. Why don't you tell everybody any where they can get a hold of you and where they can find out more about ten bound? Yeah, absolutely. I don't know when this is going to post, but we actually have two public seminars and a meet up coming up. Public Seminar is going to be sales development management training. We can get up to eight people and those we've got one in San Francisco October eighteen and one in Boston on November fourteen. Unless I said Boston, so I'm trying to bring him us. And then we gotta meet up that night, which is actually sponsored by outreach. It's going to be about driving diversity in sales development and trying to get more non Bro Culture type our thanks. Oh, that's also November fourteenth in Boston. You can get more info on that. Ten pound T and Bo and dcom forward events and mark. I just appreciate you having me on the show. Thank you so much, man. Yeah, Hey, thanks, David. We'll talk again soon and for everybody else, check us out at sales engagementcom. We'll have another podcast coming up soon and we'll see it in this was another episode of the sales and beachment podcast. Join US at sales engagementcom for new episodes, resources and the book on sales engagement coming sooner. To get the most out of your sales and gagument strategy, make sure to check out outreach that I own, the leading sales and metment plot. See you on the next episode.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (331)