The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

Growing Engagement Through Sales Development w/ David Dulany

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Mark discusses the importance of sales development to growing your sales engagement with David Dulany, Founder and CEO of Tenbound. Tenbound is a leader in helping SaaS companies build and develop their Sales Development programs. Tune in!

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast.This podcast is brought to you by outreach dot I oh, the leading salesengagement platform helping companies, sellers and customer success engage with fires and customers inthe modern sales era. Check out sales engagementcom for new episodes, resources andthe book on sales engagement coming soon. Now let's get into today's episode.Everybody, welcome back to the sales engagement podcast. On sales engagementcom. Superexcited to have you. This time we have one of my oldest SASS SDRbuddies, David Delaney, on the line. What's up, David? Has Itgoing man? What's Mark? I'm happy to join you. How areyou doing today, buddy? Good, good, Hey. So, whydon't you introduce yourself real quick? Tell us where you work in what you'redoing. Give us a little bit of a one. Sure. Absolutely so. I am David Delaney. I run a company called ten bound if.We do training and consulting for sales development for one hundred percent focus on salesdevelopment and so big fans of everything that you guys do over an outreach andjust came off of the sales development conference, which was the first and only conferencefocus one hundred percent on sales development here in San Francisco, three hundredfifty sales development leaders at the Ritz Carlton Back on August thirty. So excitedto talk with you more. You are probably one of the first dudes Iever met that was just like Liv in the SDR, sales development thing,like way back when, like four years ago, and you know it wasstill a little bit of a new concept. What attracted you to that specialization soearly? Yeah, absolutely. I mean it started back when I wasa sales wrap. I sold sales training for about seven years at a companycalled achieve global, and one of the things that we really struggled with wasjust getting in front of new customers and setting an appointment. So it's alwayssomething that had fascinated me, like what is the process of getting in frontof new customers and being able to set sales appointments and that intersection between whatmarketing is doing, what the product organizations doing, what sales is doing,and so when I joined the team at glass or I went to my managerand just pitched hey, you know, why don't we start a sales developmentteam here? We had pretticular revenue from Aaron Ross and they had had successat sales force doing it and glass door was a subscription. He gave meenough rope to hang myself. We ended up starting the program and it becamesuccessful and the rest is history. I mean, ever since then the salesdevelopment world has just exploded and outreach and products like it have been a bigpart of it and it's been really, really interesting. It's still really interestingto me every day that all the different aspects of it. It is kindof funny. It's almost like this contagious...

...disease, like once you really startthinking about that one little aspect of sales, of getting people on the phone,getting that meeting book, maybe doing qualification, if you're letting your strsgo that far into the process, like it really becomes like this awesome playgroundof things that tinker with. Right. Yeah, I mean it's a tremendousamount of creativity has to be involved and also coordination. I'm probably add I'venever been dying sales, but I tend to be interested in a lot ofdifferent things and the cool thing about sales development is that it gives you alittle taste of so many different parts of the go to market, you're talkingto field events, you're talking to people running demand jet programs, you're talkingto the sales team, you're talking to the operations. You knee deep insales operations, and so it really keeps you interested and fascinated. And theother thing is it's a very important part of the organization. I mean it'sa lifeblood. It's the oxygen that keeps things rolling and it's becoming more importantevery yet. So yeah, yeah, you can never have too many meetings. At least I've never heard of somebody that had too many. And itreally is I mean it's like you think about revenue, is what keeps everybodyemployed. It it's like, yeah, I'm makes you attractive as the companyand hitting your revenue targets. And then you just reverse engineer that. It'slike, what does it take to create revenue? You need pipeline. Willwas it take to create a pipeline? Will? You need to talk topeople, you need to have conversations. But what does it take to havea conversation? Well, it's coordinating all the things. It's what we doevery day as sales development professionals. And so you know, if you lookat it that way it's like yeah, it is a very important department.So what do you say to people that are like, Hey, you know, we sell in such a way that, like, our guys have to eatwhat they kill, they have to hunt, they have to be outthere and close in. Like they get soft and happy when all they're doingis taking a meetings from SDRs and stuff. What's your posture when people say stufflike that? I would say that totally makes sense. I would saythat sales people will never be off the hook on prospecting. I mean,I'm a huge fan of Mike Weinberg and new sales simplified and everything that hewrites, because sales people will always have your prospect. It's a huge partof the job. You've got to understand the market, you got to understandthe territory, you've got to get on the phone and make calls. Whetheryou've been in sales for five minutes or fifty years, you've got a continuouslyprospect and so that never goes away and I think you're being super naive ifyou think that sales development is going to come in and solve all your problems. I actually think that that's a problem that we see out there in especiallylike the SASS technology world, is that people, there's a lot of fingerpointing towards development, like you guys suck and that's why I'm not hitting mygoals. And that is just completely the wrong attitude. I mean, ifyou're in sales, you have to prospect,...

...you have to hunt at all timesand update. We used to call them your rolodecks, but you know, you have Linkedin, you know your first connection, like you got tobuild those relationships constantly in your territory. But it's also critical that when you'rein there closing a deal, when you're on an airplane, when you're ina situation where you simply cannot prospect, there's somebody over there that's doing itfor you and is helping you to fill your pipeline, because you can't,like if you're closing this huge deal in a board room in New York City, you're not making cold cause at that moment, you got to have asales development department that's also helping you to fill that pipeline. So they workin connection. Long answer, but I hope, hopefully, that's that makessense. Ye Know, I mean big question. It deserves a long answer. I think that it's super interesting to me that people will say on eitherextreme and I think balance is always the key and let in everything. Imean that's kind of a generic thing to say, but when you're balanced,like things are going well, when you're only relying on yourself, then youcould get in trouble. When you're only relying on someone else, then theycan get you in trouble. Why not just team up and make the bestof it? Right? Yeah, Dude. I mean that not to totally shiftgears, but that's like the constant argument of should I be cold callinga hundred percent, or should I be social selling or should have a emailing? It's like it's such a ridiculous argument because it's basically like I learned fromChris Beale at connect and sell, that you'd boil the whole thing down toconversations. Sales Development is about conversations and how you go about getting those conversationsis just the activity that you have to do. For some people it's makingtons of calls, it's emailing, it's social it's doing everything that you haveto do, going to events, going to meet ups and stuff like that. You're trying to forge conversations with people that are either knowledgeable about your productor don't know anything about it, and talk to them about why they shouldpotentially check you out, but that you could help them. It's this usewhatever means necessary to forge those conversations. Yeah, hear, yeah, theWise Chris beal. We I think we all owe at least a half adozen interesting conversations to that date. Oh, I know, the guy is amazing. I mean he posts like all their stats every day on linkedin aboutwhat they're doing and it's just totally transparent about it. How they help theircustomers. Is Very wise man. He ghosted me on the conference this year, which irritated me because they were platinum sponsors last year. So, Chris, if you're listening, I'm a big fan and I want to get youback and here. God damnit. Hah Ha ha. He totally deserve that. One reason why I wanted to have you on, David, was becausewe're here to talk a little bit about sales engagement. But the first groupof people that really embraced sales engagement and like took off with sales engagement platformslike outreach, where SDRs and you just had this huge conference with all theseunbelievable minds that are talking about sales development...

...and tell me about two or threethings that came out of that conference that people that are talking about sales engagementare discussing and thinking about. Yeah, I mean, I'm just too juston you to your point. Like I remember when we first started to tryto do real sales development, like the modern era sales development, and itwas like sales force and post it notes and excel files and like notebooks anddeath phone, which nobody even has anymore. And God, I mean the stuffthat the sales engagement platforms like you guys have done is just like accelerated. It, I. Leaps and bound. So we're we're out of the StoneAge or actually into an era of effectiveness thanks to what you guys aredoing. But coming out of the conference, yeah, I mean, dude,we have three hundred fifty of the top minds in sales development under oneroot for one day. And there was a few things. One is,during my keynote I touched on the dawn of the chief sales development officer andI went out on a limb. I'm here. Okay, I'm probably likefive years early on this, but I even't talked to. Yesterday I talkedto Holly Katsman at high spot who, if you're not aware of it,is just an amazing sales development leader and she reports directly to the team.I mean she could be the first chief sales development officer. I could seethat happening. And the reason that I propose that, and I think thereason that it got so many like applause and everyone was screaming about how awesomeit is, is because you think about sales development, it really is theconnected tissue between so many different areas of the business as far as, likeI was saying, field marketing, demand and sales operations, even product thatat some point in the future, especially at the bigger companies, there's goingto be someone on the sea level who's in charge of creating appointments for salespeoplethat lead the pipeline and revenue. And so I put it out there.It's up for debate. If anyone wants to debate me. I'm always onlinked in every day. I just like things all day, so just jumpon there. But I think we're going to see this chief sales development officerat some point in the next five years. I'M gonna have to bite in here. I'm going to take the bait. So is a ceasweek and a half, thirty seven people sitting at the table and a couple years? Isthat what you're proposing? There's the chief content motter. This is the chiefvideographer, Guy, the CVG. Have I heard? I definitely you don'twant to be on the ship, for sure, but if you think aboutit, think of all the different things that go into getting someone to sitdown with you, to take a zoom meeting, to sit down with youat the table and talk about potentially looking into your product, if you thinkabout the different departments that have to be running on all cylinders. We're talkingfield marketing, demand and operations, sales, even product when you think about it. The other big feat or that I took away from the conference wasLiz Caine's speech on product led sales development...

...and talking about how the companies areactually morphemite products to lead from a premium perspective and then basing their sale developmentprograms on falling up and getting people to flip from fremium to higher level packages. And some of the highest growth companies out there are following that model andthey're building their sales development program to match that. And I'm again going outon a limb here, you could have what potentially were other sea level peopleeventually reporting into the chief sales development officer to make sure that everything's aligned andfocused on getting sales people belly to belly with new prospects. Yeah, Imean, I'm kind of poking fun, but I think the point is validthat you be hard pressed to say that there's a function more important than creatingpipeline. Mean, pipeline is oxygen, and you said earlier of revenue andwell, I don't know if it necessarily needs a sea sweet place at thetable. I do think that thinking of it as an entry level sales position, a place where you go like must your chops for a year so youcan get a quote unquote, real job and the or a place for youto cut your teeth and all that kind of stuff really diminishes the impact andthe level of importance that we place on the people that are doing that verydifficult job exactly. And so I'm basically I'm taking it from the mail roomall the way up to the thirty second floor with the three hundred and sixtyview of several park so yeah, I mean it's just giving it that importancebecause, if you think about it, the dark sides of all the technologythat's been created around sales development has been the amount of noise that's out thereand how much more difficult it is to get in front of new prospects withall I mean, every Sass company now has a big sales development team that'sdoing exactly the same thing. They're using a lot of the same tools,they're using a lot of the same messaging. I mean there's just a ton ofnoise out there and it's getting harder and harder to get in front ofprospects for your average Joe. So it becomes more and more important that youthink of it strategically and put the support behind it as an organization versus justgoing Oh yeah, it's it's like an AF. Your thought like, Ohyeah, let's hire some people, like we're not really going to train anwe'll just hook him up on outreach and there you go. Yeah, wea hundred phone calls every day now. Dude, we got up the gamebecause from a macro perspective, you canomically like we've been in a progression here. For a long time the economy has been really good. We're do forsome kind of correction. It's going to get more and more competitive. It'sgoing to be get harder and harder to do this and if we don't takeit seriously and look at it strategically, we're not going to be able toperform as well as we have them. So how are you thinking about?How you telling the clients to think about the fact that more and more companiesare opening up SDR shops, more and more companies a habit, our shopsare starting to put the importance and enablement...

...behind it to make those people reallypay off. And so we used to say there was a lot of noise, but quite honestly, like just around the corner, there's so much noisethat is going to make right now seem like a whisper. Like how areyou helping people understand that? Like just because you spin up an str shopor you're good at it, doesn't mean that that doesn't guarantee you're going tocut through all that noise. Like how are you guys thinking about that?Yeah, I mean, and this is something that we talked about a lotand not a lot of people take as seriously and it's actually what we baseare training on in ten bound, which is start with the buyer. Startwith the people that you're actually going after and get a deep understanding of whatthey are dealing with on a daily basis. What are their paid points? Howare they measured? What's a general persona of the people that you're actuallytalking to? Start there and really immerse yourself, like if there's any STRS, they're listening to this or SCR managers. Immerse yourself in the market place thatyou're calling into. Start they're like, read all the blocks, go tothe conferences, interview the people that are in that role at your company. Just one of the best salespeople that I've ever met as names se heeledman Suri Oh, he spoke at your conference at you guys know. Yes, he'll. He's a man. We used to share a double lie thatglass door and when he came in, like I could tell that he waslike a rock star. But he immersed himself in the HR world and therecruiting world and just knew their vocabulary, knew where they hung out and Iknew the things and started from that perspective and then he built in all ofhis knowledge about how glass door specifically met their needs and was able to reallyarticulate that. But he what I see over and over again, and quitefrankly, it keeps the lights on here over at ten bound, because that'swhat we help people with, is they start the sales development program by learningeverything about their product and like what they do and all the bells and whistles, and it's like, dude, nobody gives a shit. Yeah, Imean, excuse my language, like people are very busy, they've got allthose stuff going on in their own life and they're trying to solve specific problems. Then if you come up to him and you're like, dude, Ican solve your problem and here's exactly the knowledge that I bring, here's thecase studies and I can help you, then they will be able to havea conversation with them. If they lead with their product, if they leavewith whatever they're selling, then it's just it's a get at and that's whatI recommend. Yeah, it's kind of funny. I think a lot ofpeople start with sales engagement and sales development thinking about what can we do withsales engagement and sales development, thinking about the prospects that we're going after ratherthan thinking, all right, what does that that person need? And whenyou start with that like prospect centric, non you centered just rolls from there. Because, I mean, listen,...

...the reason why sales people get characterizedas use car salesmen and sales e and untrustworthy is because I know there's alot of people that are that are just selfish and they're worried about getting thesale. They're worried about telling you what they can do for you rather thanjust being empathetic, sitting there listening, helping to understand and trying to helpsolve a problem, even if it doesn't fall in your favor. If yousolve somebody's problem, they'll come back to you for the next problem that maybeyou can solve for them in a way that sells your product. So yeah, I mean, dude, it's and believe me, this is way easiersaid than done. I mean there's a tremendous amount of pressure on salespeople todeliver the goods everybody's. The sales department is under the most pressure probably atthe whole company for most of the time, you know, and and they they'relooking for instant results, and what we have to figure out the balanceon is it takes a little bit of study and patience and going out thereand talking and getting to know your buyer and their world. And at thesame time you're going to be under a lot of pressure to perform, andI think that's why people just abandoned like trying to figure out the market andfigure out the buyer because they're under so much pressure they just have to perform, so they just send out like millions of canned spammy emails and they feellike they're they're doing something. Or people get into industries that they're really notinterested in. It just it looked like a good brand and they need ajob and they're like okay, well, now I'm selling, you know,router switchers to ID and they're just like, I don't really give a shit aboutthis and I don't give a shit about the people that I'm helping,and so I'm just kind of putting in the motion. So you got tolearn about the market, learn about the people, and then you kind ofgot to care about I have something that I can really help these people with, and you got to kind of care about it and look at yourself inthe mirror and like do I really care about the people that I'm I'm tryingto help here, or I'm just doing it for the money or going throughthe motions? So it's tricky. Yeah, no doubt. Well, Hey,yeah, I'd like to end our discussion by asking you what book,What Resource, which podcast, what blog do you read that helps you?Levels you up the most, gives you the most inspiration, helps you learnthe most. Like where do you go to get outside of yourself to learnabout sales engagement? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've got a fewthings. One is a subscribe to an email that comes every day called thedaily stoic. Stoicism, or being STOIC, kind of has a stereotype of,you know, a cow in a field, you know, being helpedwith rain and just kind of sit there and kind her gout, but actuallythe stoicism is it's a really interesting philosophy on looking at life from a veryrealistic perspective, understanding what you can control and what you can't control, andtrying to spend more time in the can...

...control, you know, aspect andreally developing yourself as a person. So if folks haven't heard of that youcan probably Google like daily stoic email list. I would definitely get on that becauseevery day, you know, he just writes like a little passage andbrings up some examples and gives you a little taste of stoicism and it's beenit's been really helpful for me. Well. Thank you, Mr Delaney. Asalways, it's been in pleasure. Why don't you tell everybody any wherethey can get a hold of you and where they can find out more aboutten bound? Yeah, absolutely. I don't know when this is going topost, but we actually have two public seminars and a meet up coming up. Public Seminar is going to be sales development management training. We can getup to eight people and those we've got one in San Francisco October eighteen andone in Boston on November fourteen. Unless I said Boston, so I'm tryingto bring him us. And then we gotta meet up that night, whichis actually sponsored by outreach. It's going to be about driving diversity in salesdevelopment and trying to get more non Bro Culture type our thanks. Oh,that's also November fourteenth in Boston. You can get more info on that.Ten pound T and Bo and dcom forward events and mark. I just appreciateyou having me on the show. Thank you so much, man. Yeah, Hey, thanks, David. We'll talk again soon and for everybody else, check us out at sales engagementcom. We'll have another podcast coming up soonand we'll see it in this was another episode of the sales and beachment podcast. Join US at sales engagementcom for new episodes, resources and the book onsales engagement coming sooner. To get the most out of your sales and gagumentstrategy, make sure to check out outreach that I own, the leading salesand metment plot. See you on the next episode.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (315)