The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

Growing Engagement Through Sales Development w/ David Dulany

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Mark discusses the importance of sales development to growing your sales engagement with David Dulany, Founder and CEO of Tenbound. Tenbound is a leader in helping SaaS companies build and develop their Sales Development programs. Tune in!

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast,this podcast had brought you my outreach Ottaio leading sales, AF vesanPLATF, heping companies, sellers and customer success, engage with fires andcustomers and the modern sales ero check out sales, an agcom for newepisodes, resources and the book on sales andbugement. Coming soon. Now,let's get into today's episode, everybody welcome back to salesengagement, podcast on sales. Engagementhcom super excited to haveyou. This time we have one of my oldest SASS SDR, Buddyes David Delani, on theline. What's up David Haws, it going Mam, Wut op mark I'm happy to join youhow you doing today, buddy good good hey! So why don't you introduceyourself real, quick, tell us where you work in what you're doing give us alittle bit of the fourunded one sure? Absolutely so I am David Lanney. I runa company called ten bound if we do trading an consulting for sales.Development were one hundred percent focus on sales, development and so bigfans of everything that you guys do over and outreach and just came off ofthe sales development conference, which was the first and only conference,focus one hundred percent on sales development. Here in San Francisco,three hundred fifty sales development leaders at the Ritz Carlton Back onAugust thirtieth so xcited to talk with you more. You were probably one of thefirst dudes I ever met. That was just like Livin. The SDR sales developmentthing like way back when, like four years ago- and you know it was still alittle bit of a new concept. What attracted you to that specialization soearly yeah! Absolutely I mean it started back when I was a sales wrap. Isold sales training for about seven years and a company called achiefglobal and one of the things that we really struggled with was just gettingin front of new customers and setting appointment. So it's always somethingthat had fascinated me like what is the process of getting in front of newcustomers and being avable to set sales appointments and that intersectionbetween what marketing's doing what the product organizations doing what salesis doing, and so, when I joined the team at class or I went to my managerand just pitched hey, you know why don't we start a sales development team?Here we had perticar revenue for Maron Ross and Theyhad had success at salesforce, doing it and last door was a subscription. He gave me enough rope tohang myself. We ended up starting the program and it became successful in therest is history I mean ever since then the sales development world has justexploded and outreach and products like it have been a big part of it, and it'sbeen really really interesting. It's still really interesting to me everyday, th all the different aspects of it. It is kind of funny. It's almost likethis contagious disease, like once. You...

...really start thinking about that onelittle aspect of sales of getting people on the phone getting thatmeeting book, maybe doing qualification if you're letting your sdrs go that farinto the process like it really becomes like this awesome playground of thingsto tinker with right. Yeah I mean it's, a tremendous amount of creativity hasto be involved and also coordination. I'm probably D. I've never been dyingtos, but I tend to be interested in a lot of different things and the coolthing about sales development is that it gives you a little taste of so manydifferent parts of the gotof market. You're talking to feel the eventsyou're talking to people running Tomanden programs, you're talking tothe sales teve you're talking to the operations, you need deep in salesoperations and so t it really keeps you interested and fascinated and the otherthing is it's a very important part of the organization. I mean it's a lifeblood, it's the oxygen that keeps things rolling and it's becoming moreimportant eve. Yet so yeah yeah, you can never have too manymeetings. At least I've never heard of somebody that had too many, and no it really is, I mean it's likeyou think about revenue is what keeps everybody employedits like makes youattractive as the company and hitting your revedu targets, and then you justreverse engineer that it's like what does it take to creat revenue? You needpipepline what Wos it take to create a pipeline? Well, you need to talk topeople. You need to have conversations. What does it take to have aconversation? Well, it's coordinating all the things is what we do every daythat selles development professionals- and so you know, if you look at it thatway, it's like yeah. It is a very important department. So what do yousay to people that are like Hey th? You know we sell in such a way that, likeour guys have to eat what they kill, they have to hunt, they have to be outthere and closing like they get soft and happy when all they're doing istaking the meetings from strs and stuff. What's your posture when people saystuff like that, I would say that totally makes sense. I would say thatsalespeople will never be off the book on prospecting. I mean I'm a huge fanof Mike Winberg and new, sells n, simplified and everything that hewrites, because sales people will always have to prospect. It's a hugepart of the job. You've got to understand the market. You got tounderstand the territory you've got to get on the phone and make calls whetheryou've been in sales for five minutes or fifty years. You Got Ta Continuo,sily prospect, and so that never goes away, and I think you're being supernaive. If you think that sales development is going to come in andsolve all your problems, I actually think that that's a problem that we seeout there in especially like the SASS technology world, is that peoplethere's a lot of fingerpointing towards se development, like you guys suck andthat's why I'm not hitting my goals, and that is just completely the wrongattitude I mean if pure in sales, you...

...have to prospect, you have to hunt atall times and UPDAT. We used to call him your Rola Dek, but you know e linkin you know your Chris Connecton, like you got to build those relationshipsconstantly in your territory, but it's also critical that when you're in thereclosing a deal when you're on an airplane when you're in a situationwhere you simply cannot prospect, there's somebody over there, that'sdoing it for you and is helping you to fill your pipeline, because you can'tlike, if you're closing this huge deal in a boardroom in New York City you're,not making cold cause at that MMOMENT. You gotta have a sale developmentdepartment. That's also helping you to fill that pype of line, so they work inconnection long answer, but I hope hopefully that's that makes sense. Yeahwell mean big question. It deserves a long answer. I think that it's superinteresting to me that people will say on either extreme and I think balanceis always the key and everything I mean. That's kind of a generic thing to say,but when you're balanced, like things are going well, when you're onlyrelying on yourself, then you could get in trouble when you're only relying onsomeone else, then they can get you in trouble. Why not just team up and makethe best of it right? Yeah Dede! I mean that not to totallyshift years, but that's like the constant argument of should I be coldcallign, a hundred percent, or should I be social selling or should of a email?And it's like it's such a ridiculous argument, because it's basically like Ilearned from Chris Bel at connect and cell, that you boil the whole thingdown to conversations sales development is about conversations and how you goabout getting. Those conversations is just the activity that you have to dofor some people. It's making tons of calls. It's emailing, it's social, it'sdoing everything that you have to do going to edvance, going to meetups andstuff, like that you're trying to forge conversations with people that areeither knowledgeable about your product or don't know anything about it andtalk to them about why they should potentially check you out, but youcound help Tham, it's theuse, whatever means necessary to forge thoseconversations yeah here, yet the Wise Chris Bel. We, I think we all owe atleast a half a dozen interesting conversations to that dude. I know the guy is amazing. I mean heposts like all their stats every day, I'm nly ded about what they're doingand it's just totally transparent about it, how they help their customers hes avery wise man. He ghosted me on the conference this year which irritated mebecause they were plotben sponsors last year. So Chris, if you're listening,I'm a big Fan and I want to get you back in Ferincac, her God, Damn it haha ha Haifyou totally deserve that. One reason why I wanted to have you onDavid was because we're here to talk a little bit about sales engagement, butthe first group of people that really embraced sales engagement and like tookoff with sales engagement platforms like out reach, werestr sand. You justhave this huge conference with all these unbelievable minds that aretalking about sales development and...

...tell me about two or three things thatcame out of that conference: that people that are talking about salesengagement are discussing and thinking about yeah I mean, and just to just on you toyour point, like I remember when we first started to try to do real salesdevelopment like the modern, Ara, cales development, and it was like salesforce and posted notes and excel files, and like notebooks and deathphone,which anbody even has anymore, and God I mean the stuff that the salesengagement platforms, like you guys have done, is just like accelerated itby leaps and bound so we're out of the Stone Age we're actually into an era ofeffectiveness. Thanks to what you guys are doing, but coming out of theconference yeah I mean Dude. We have three hundred fifty of the top mines insales development under one room for one day, and there was a few things oneis during my keynote. I touched on the dawn of the chief sales developmentofficer and I went out on the limb here. Okay, I'm probably like five yearsearly on this, but I even talked to yesterday I talked to Hally catsmanthat high spot, who you've Yore not aware of, is just an amazing silesdevelopment leader and she reports direct t, thegitive Tame. I mean shecould be the first chief sales development officer. I could see thathappening and the reason that I propose that and I think the reason that it gotso many like applause and everyone was screaming about how awesome it is isbecause, if you think about sales development, it really is the connectedtissue between so many different areas of the business. As far as like I'msaying, field, marketing demand and sales operations, even product that atsome point in the future, and especially at the bigger companies,there's going to be someone on this sea level, who's in charge of creatingappointments for sales, people that lead the pipeline and revenue, and so Iput it out there it's up for debate. If anyone wants to debate me, I'm alwayson La stand every day I just like things all day so just jump on there,but I think we're going to see this chief sales development officer at somepoint in the next five years. I'M gonna have to bite in here. I'm GOIN NA takethe bait, so is a ceas week, and I have thirty seven people sitting at thetable in a couple years is that what you're proposing there's the chiefcontent? Maer, the chief videographer Guy, the CVGYave R, okay, yeah yeah? Definitely you don't want to MAAo s for sure, but if you think about it, think of all the different things thatgo into getting someone to sit down with you to take a zoom meeting to sitdown with you at the table and talk about potentially looking into yourproduct. If you think about the different departments of have to berunning on all cylinders, we're talking field, marketing, demand and operationsales, even product when you think about it. The other big feature that Itook I from the conference was Liz can's speech on product, led salesdevelopment and talking about how the...

...companies are actually morefineirproducts to lead from a premium perspective and then basing their saledevelopment programs on falling up and getting people to flip from fremium tohigher level packages and some of the highest growth companies out. There arefollowing that model and they're building their selves evelpment programto match that and again going out on a limb. Here you could have whatpotentially were other se level people eventually reporting into the chiefsales development officer to make sure that everything's aligned and focusedon getting sales people belly O belly with new prospects yeah. I mean I'mkind of poking fun, but I think the point is valid. That you'd be hardpressed to say that there's a function, more important than creating pipeline Imean pipeline is the oxygen you said earlier of revenue and well I don'tknow if it necessarily need a c sweet place at the table. I do think thatthinking of it as an intry level, sales position a place where you go like bustyour chops for a year, so you can get a quote: Unquote real job in the work ora place for you to cut your teeth and all that kind of stuff reallydiminishes the impact and a level of importance that we place on the peoplethat are doing that very difficult job exactly and so I'm, basically I'mtaking it from the mail room all the way up to the thirty second, four, theth sixty view of ceveral park so yeah. I mean it's just giving it thatimportance, because if you think about it, the dark sides of all thetechnology that's been created around sales development has been the amountof noise, that's out there and how much more difficult it is to get in front ofnew prospects. With all I mean, every SASS company now has a big salesdevelopment team. That's doing exactly the same thing, they're using a lot ofthe same tools they're using a lot of the same messaging. I mean there's justa ton of noise out there and it's getting harder and harder to get infront of prospects for their average job. So it becomes more and moreimportant that you think of it strategically and put the supportbehind it as an organization versus just going yeah. It's like, like anafterthought like Oh yeah. Let's hire some people like we're, not reallygoing to train them, we'll just hook hem up on out reach and there you golike yeah make a hundred phone calls every day now dude we got. I up thegame because, from a Makro perspective economically, like we've, been in aprogression here for a long time, the economy h's been really good. Werd dofor some kind of correction. It's going to get more and more competitive, it'sgoing to be geting, harder and harder to do this, and if we don't take itseriously and look at it strategically we're not going to be able to performas well as we have been. So how are you thinking about how you telling thorclients to think about the fact that more more companies are open, ing up,SDR shops, more and more companies that...

...have is tar shops are starting to putthe importance and enablement behind it to make those people really pay off,and so we used to say there was a lot of noise, but quite honestly, like justaround the corner, there's so much noise that is going to make right nowseem like a whisper like. How are you helping people understand that, likejust because you spin up an str shop, wer you're good at it, doesn't meanthat that doesn't guarantee you're going to cut through all that noiselike? How are you guys thinking about that yeah I mean, and this is somethingthat we talk about a lot and not a lot of people take as seriously, and it'sactually what we base aure training on in en bound, which is start with thebuyer, start with the people that you're atually going after and get adeep understanding of what they are dealing with on a daily basis. What aretheir painpoints? How are they measured? What's a general persona of the peoplethat you're actually talking to start there and really impurse yourself likeif there's any SCRS, they're listening to Thi CRSR managers, immerse yourselfin the marketplace that you're calling into start there like read all theblocks go to the conferences, th interview, the people that are in thatrole at your company, just one of the best sales people that I've ever methis name Saheel mansery. Oh, he spoke at your conference at you, guys know H.Yes, hell he's a man. We used to share a Doubey at glass door and when he camein like I could tell that he was like a rock star, but he immersed himself inthe HR world and the recruiting world and just knew their vocabulary knewwhere they hung out, and I knew that things and started from thatperspective, and then he built in all of his knowledge about how glasdoorspecifically met their needs and was able to really articulate that. But hewhat I see over and over again and en quite frankly, it keeps the lights onhere over a ten bound. Because that's is what we help people with. Is Theystart the sales development program by learning everything about their productand like what they do and all the bells and whistles? And it's like dude,nobody Kins, a shit, I mean excuse. My language, like people are very busy.They've got all those stuff going on in their own life and they're trying tosolve specific problems. Then, if you come up to them and you're like dude, Ican solve your problem and here's exactly the knowledge that I bring.Here's the case studies and I can help you, then they will be able to have aconversation with them if they lead with their product if they leave withwhatever they're selling than it's just it's a ged Ed and that's what Irecommend yeah it's kind of funny. I think a lot of people start with sales,engagement and sales development. Thinking about what can we do withsales engagement and sales development thinking about the prospects that we'regoing after rather than thinking all right? What does that that person need,and when you start with that, like prospect, centric non ou centered justroles from there, because I mean listen.

The reason why sales people getcharacterizeas use car salesmen and Salez and untrustworthy is because youknow there's a lot of people that are that are just selfish and they're,worried about getting the sale they're worried about telling you what they cando for you, rather than just being empathetic sitting there listeninghelping to understand and trying to help solve a problem, even if itdoesn't fall in your favor if you've solved somebody's problem, they'll comeback to you for the next problem that maybe you can solve for them in a waythat sells your product. So yeah I mean dude, it's and believe me. This is wayeasier. Seven tat, I mean there's a tremendous amount of pressure on salespeople to deliver the goods everybody's. The sales department is under the mostpressure, probably at the whole company, for most of the time you know and andthey're looking for instant results and what we have to figure out the balanceon is it takes a little bit of study and patience and going out there andtalking and getting to know your buyer and their world and, at the same time,you're going to be under a lot of pressure to perform, and I think that'swhy people just abandoned like trying to figure out the market and figure outthe buyer, because they're under so much pressure they just have to perform,so they just send out like millions of Cann spanmy emails and they feel liketthey're doing something or people get into industries that they're really notinterested in it. Just it look like a good brand and they need a job andthey're like okay. Well, now, I'm selling you know router switchers to IDand they're just like. I don't really give a shit about this and I don't givea shit about the people that I'm helping and so I'm just kind of puttingin the motion. So you got to learn about the market, learn about thepeople and then you kind of got Ta care about. I have something that I canreally help these people with, and you got to kind of care about it and lookat yourself in the mirror and like do I really care about the people that I'mI'm trying to help here or I'm just doing it for the money or going throughthe motions. So it's tricky yeah. No doubt well, Hey I'd like to end ourdiscussion by asking you what book, what resource which podcast? What blogdo you read that helps you levels you up? The most gives you the mostinspiration helps you learn the most like. Where do you go to get outside ofyourself to learn about sales engagement? Yeah? Absolutely I meanI've got a few things one is I subscribe to a email that comes everyday called the daily Stoic stoicism or being stoen kind of? Has a stereotypeof you know: cow in a field ou knowing helthing with rain and just kind of sitthere and kindhery, but actually the stoacism.It's a really interesting philosophy on looking at life, from a very realisticperspective, understanding what you can control and what you can't control andtrying to spend more time in the can...

...control. You know aspect and reallydeveloping yourself as a person. So if folks haven't heard of that, youcn,probably google like daily stoic email list, I would definitely get on thatbecause every day you know he just writes like a little passage and bringsup some examples and give you a little taste of stocism and it's been beenreally helpful for me. Well. Thank you. MISTR Delaney has always as been inpleasure. Why don't you tell everybody where they can get a hold of you andwhere they can find out more about ten bound yeah? Absolutely I don't know when thisis going to post, but we actually have two public seminars and a meetup comingup. Public Seminar is going to be sales development management training. We canget up to eight people and those wee got one in San Francisco OctoberEighteenh and one in Boston on November. Fourteen en, as I said, Boston, so I'mtrying to bring him the next one, and then we got ta meet up that night,which is actually sponsored by our reach. It's going to be about drivingdiversity in sales development and trying to get more nonbro culture typear think so. That's also November fourteenth on Boston. You can get moreinfo on that ten bound, ten bondcom, fortsush events and mark. I justappreciate you Havei me on the show. Thank you so much man, yeah, hey thanksDavid, we'll talk again soon and for everybody else check us out at sales.Engagementhcom we'll have another podcast coming up soon and we'll seethem. This was another episode of the SalesAgagement podcast Jonus at sales, engagementcom or new episodes,resources and the book on sales amagement coming too to get the mostout of your sales and Gaton strategy, make sure to check out out reach io theleading sales and beateful pot. So you on the next episode.

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