The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 4 months ago

The Great Resignation: Retaining Your Top Talent

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The great resignation.

We’ve all heard about it. In the United States, COVID-19 has led to what’s been dubbed “The Great Resignation.” According to recent research by Microsoft, more than 40% of the global workforce are considering leaving their employers this year.

That’s a lot of talent walking out the door. So how do you keep that talent? How do you invest in your workforce so that they won’t want to leave? It’s like that Richard Branson quote: “Train people well enough so that they can leave. Treat them well enough that they don’t want to.” On this episode of the Sales Engagement podcast, we sit down with Jerice O'Malley, Head of Business Development & Sales at Amplify Consulting Partners Inc, to talk all about:

- The Great Resignation and how she’s seen it impact the consulting world

- Advice for managers who are looking to retain their top talent

- Why people follow leaders from company to company

- Why people are staying at jobs for less and less time these days

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

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Welcome to the sales engagement podcast. This podcast is brought you by outreach, the leading sales engagement platform, and they just launched outreach on outreach, the place to learn how outreach. Well does outreach? Learn how the team follows up with every lead in record time after virtual events and turns them into revenue. You can also see how outreach one's account based plays, manages reps and so much more using their own sales engagement platform. Everything is backed by data pulled from outreach processes and customer base. When you're done, you'll be able to do it as good as they do. Head to outreach that io on outreach to see what they have going on. Now let's get into today's episode. Everybody broke but chest in your parttime podcast and the sales engagement podcast and fulltime xtr enable. One manager here at ourtreach and I am delighted to be joined today by a super talented sales manager and a very nice lady, Jery so Malley. We're going to be talking about the great resignation and how to come back, that retaining your tough talent race. How you doing? Good, Dabby back. Yeah, thanks for having me back for really excited to chat today. Me Too, and for those who may have missed your previous episode, you also check it out. It's all about sponsoring phones, mentoring supporting women in the workplace juries. Because you tell us where do you work and what is your old there? Yeah, so my role I'm ahead of sales and business development for amplified consulting partners or management consulting firm, and my keen interest is actually on the data and analytic side. So the pillar internally gets a lot of love for me and I'm trying to up that on the rest of our pillars. That's awesome. It's a good time to be keen on data. I feel like the rise of like everybody's trying to be more efficient. We got revenue innovators, always things working from home in front of do more with less, so that's good. Yeah, it's definitely been a...

...fun ride. No complaints. Awesome. And how many sailed up do you have on your team these days? That's a great question. So I'm fortunate to have a small but large team. So there's the first company I've worked at where our entire leadership team is actually selling. They're out there doing their thing, their relationships that they've had for many years. Those are the folks that we're doing work with. So we've got three sellers at the top. Are Three Sea levels. Then we've got a slew of account managers. We've got about for count managers and then too on the director side, so we've got six. And then my team. There's three of us. So all in all were right around a little bit of over ten people that are actively selling. But my immediate team is actually myself, one AE and one pre sales architect. So it's Kutty, the ying and the Yang. Everyone contributes in their own way, but I would I would say it's kind of a team of ten. That's great and it's cool that you've got like a smaller squad because he gets know everybody and get to work on deals the same people every single time. I imagine that's probably good for business and just process of like you know each other well enough to kind of read each other's minds. Yeah, I mean there's there's the good in the bad with everything. It's definitely been new for me to have three leaders at the top contributing in that way. The good is more more power behind, you know, our growth and expansion. The bad is just the additional coordination layer that you're going to have to add into the mix. But it's been great. You know, the company's actually doubled revenue in the last year grass. But it kind of leads to the topic of today, is like how do you how do you sustain that growth? How do you keep your people happy? How do you just prepare for for what's to come? Right, do you put in a...

...plan to keep and retain your people? Do you expect the people to leave? So yeah, it's definitely a great topic to chat about. Totally and like I feel like, I'm sure I'm going to butcher this, but I think it's a Richard Brand and quote where he says like I want to hire and coach people so they become like the best of the best. Everybody wants to hire them, but treat them all enough so that they don't want to leave. I feel like that is so ideal. But yeah, you're right, like how do we actually do that? So we heard all this stuff about the great resignation right, like everybody was preparing for everybody to do it really aunty. This summer. Vaccines are coming out. People are ready for change or sick of being at home and in some cases I feel like it happened right like it did. Seem like there's a lot of movement in the industry, but I don't know. Do you think it was any worse this year? Greece, like I feel like sales people, the war for talent is always happening and sales people t and you know, there is a lot of opportunities, so they move a lot. But do you think it was worse this year than in the past? I say so. My answers actually not going to be on sales specific it's just generally speaking. So, as a consulting firm, we don't have a product per se. Are Our product, or our talent, if you will, are our people, and so our people are People's ideas, they're consultative nature, their personalities, their expertise like that is really what makes us succeed as a company. And so thinking about each one of our employees, from the back end folks, operations, sales, to the folks that are contributing to these projects, we've been thinking through how do we how do we keep our people right? The topic of I think, as it relates to our immediate sales team, I'm fortunate enough that the two people on my immediate team, Brendon to Ian, actually followed me from our previous company. So I've had that great chance to work with...

...people that I've worked with before I hired them, because I knew how they how they worked, I knew what they're looking for, setting up a great foundation. In terms of our consultants, I feel like that's an even hotter market where, especially the the the chat on data analytics consulting, our people are getting offers from from every company. I mean everyone in the market is just getting offers, whether it's consulting firms or companies directly. It's been tough. I definitely have seen a lot more churn. Generally speaking. People are kind of shortening their durations at companies and really going to companies that have have values that aligned to them, compensation is fair and the compensation is not purely just their base salary. It's like, what do the bonuses look like? How am I incentivized to stay? I think an interesting thought is you know, from a consulting perspective, people have some great offers when they come on board, but what's missing is what happens your year two, your three year four. Sometimes it makes sense to leave a company and come back. We're seeing a lot of those boomerangs. Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting to when you talk about like compensation, the for folks who have left and come back, was like the reason they left initially? Purely they sound calm, or was it something else? Like when you say that that year two, your three, what do you mean by that? Yeah, well, thinking about consulting and thinking about salespeople kind of two different things here. But in terms of consulting, it depends on or just anyone operations in general. It depends on what the initial offer looks like and how the bonus structure happens. Like I said, you're to you three, you four, and it's almost like all these companies are putting all of their energy and effort into the land,...

...right the land of hiring someone and setting it that trajectory up front, and so everyone's on board. I do think a lot of times people just sign on, they're really excited but they have no idea what your two happens. So that's where we're at right now. Totally, and I'm imagining though, like that, your two and three. Sure compensation does need to be there, especially with Consultans, like if you're highly incentivized, they were the first year, where you're like, look, I like my team, but this is an offer. I can't say no to what or some other and then you know, they invitably leave and go somewhere else in the brabs come back. What are some ways that y'all are thinking about keeping folks, because at some point will reach a ceiling where it's like all right, either my specific company or the industry like we can go above a certain threshold before it's like astronomical and like totally unreasonable, totally and and that's that's kind of the most exciting part of this conversation. So going back to my team, I work with them before. We all kind of went different directions. I moved over here. They that you kind of followed me over here and and I think for me, the fact that I have, going to use a term, the fact that I have this loyalty behind me, it really means something at a deeper level. And so what I would say is connecting with your people on both a professional and personal level is really, really important. I've learned to improve my skills as a manager. For instance, you can have one on one's with your team, and some of you guys have remote team members, so that's really all you have. Thirty minutes, one hour a week, something like that. But one of my direct reports lives here in San Diego with me, and so we've actually changed our oneonone to go into the driving ranger, going to play a full eighteen. He loves to golf and the reason I'm sharing that is we've found something that that works. He...

...gets him exciting did I also like enjoy doing that. But we connect on this different level where we're not always just talking about work and career path. You're really getting to know that individual. You care about their success, you care about what they want to do, and that personal connection, I think, is number one. The second thing I'd say is when you do have these conversations, is really as I mentioned before, is is understanding them holistically, and so maybe their career path is one topic, but it needs to support their other aspirations. Maybe there's, you know, the family life component, maybe they want to relocate, maybe they want, I don't know, kind of throw something out there that doesn't hundred percent relate to work. Making sure that you hear all of those things and connecting with them is really important. The last thing I'd say is on the compensation front. You're right, we're going to hit a ceiling at some point. I think the important thing to notice is you need to know what industry standards are offering, whether it's full package compensations, whether it's the specific dollar amount, whether it's the job title. Again, connect with your employees, understand what specifically they are driven by and try to find some alignment there. I think at the end of the day, you're going to have team members that are driven by one thing and it could be job title, compensation, worklife bounce. It could be one or could be all. I think the best thing to to understand is just take the time to understand your people. Understand that some of them are going to leave, but the people that you will want to work within, the people that want to work with you, you're going to you're going to find a way to balance it out. And the last thing I would say is advocate for your people. You brought them onto your team. There's there's that loyalty that's in place. There set some boundaries and expectations of what they can expect at your company, but it's your job as the manager to really be that servant leader, to advocate for them. If they want X,...

...is it possible, and go to bat for them. If you're not going to go to bat for them, you know why are they on your team? At the same time, you have to set expectations and the best person to set those expectations is their manager, not their skip level, not the sea level, but you need to have that personal conversation to say hey, this is what's expected and here's what we can do. So all of that, I think, leads to people staying, leads to people enjoying their time and at the time that they do need to leave, you know it's a peaceful exit. Who knows, maybe they'll work with you at your next company. Totally. Yeah, the the sales world, consulting role, whatever industry you're in, I find it becomes very small and a great way and you'll totally run into people again. There's so much to unpack. Their dury something I got. I was like taking like a crazy person, but I want to double tap on like the golf situation one, because I think it's phenomenal. You're right, like you have to get make the effort as a manage. I think dancy know people outside of the office, whether that's like we're going to dinner, we'll go walk and get coffee if you're in a remote situation, like taking the time to do something that's like not work related, because it's important to get people out of the box and I think that's what we lost so much of in Covid was like, man, I now I have to plan my small talk. I have this like odd little thirty minute window, like let's not go out small talk. How's your family? How's your job? How are you feeling about all those things, they'll start about your number. It's very rush so like do you have any advice for managers or like I'm trying to find that human aspect again when I am in, like we're talking about earlier backtoback meetings and I don't have a ton of time and I want to be conscious of like people are sick of screen time at the end of the day. You know, yeah, that I totally see that and you know I'm not I don't not say that this works, but this is what we've done. So my pod we will meet individually for an...

...hour at a time and then we actually have daily stand ups together. They used to be tactical, but now we've changed it into like how can we, as a team, eliminate those roadblocks for each other? And and I just comment it on someone on Linkedin had posted something about this. I think as a manager you need to find the right amount of availability for your team, but at the same time you've got to get work done as well, and so we've carved out more time each morning so that we can come together, we can figure out what's happening and we're available and I think throughout the day if there's something else that comes up, you know we're going to have another touch point the next morning. If something is an emergency, you guys identify the form of communication for them to escalate and reach you. Otherwise you guys are really just operating on your own track lines. So that's what we've found that works. And the last thing I'll say is we are all very respectful of our work life balance and so you know, before eight am, after five PM, there's there's no talk about work. Obviously there's certain things that escalate probably towards quarter end you got to have those conversations, but really we do our best job of not communicating after about work, after those hours or before those hours, and it's been working. So yeah, that that works for our team. I think that's so great because the common bird that's coming through is just the need to to overcommunicate. And I think, but I know with my like what I had, I've been able to Andre. Now I don't have to direct report, but when I did and the pandemic hit, like everybody went out of their way to like over communicate. So we had daily Huddles, we had like multiple one online, there was like pod sequencing time and candidly, I feel like maybe this is just my own little bubble, but it seems like people are kind of getting away from that...

...because remote is becoming so normalized. But it clearly with teams who make it a priority. Okay, we have to talk to each other and it can't just be when something's on fire. There's a lot of success then. Yeah, and I think what ill piggyback off there is what we were doing at first was the the daily stand ups where we would go line by line in sales force. What are we focusing on this, you know, today, and then we would go line by line over every single detail and my team was the one that actually spoke up to me and said, drees, it's actually not a really good use of any of our time. Why don't we just, you know, we have to better manage our own calendars and our own responsibilities. Let's meet on a weekly basis and then on those daily sinks. Let's not eliminate that time block, but let's just be available for each other. I'll admit half the time we don't even talk about work, which is fine, yeah, and the other half the time and say, Hey, I actually really need your help to eliminate this road block. Can you help me out? We're all line there. We go tackle that and we're on to the next. So I love that. You know, I maybe it's in in the period of covid where people are having to speak up and they have to share what what is challenging. That's something that I've seen my team grow and be able to communicate. That's great. The other topic that you brought up was like, like, I feel like I have a really like loyal squad of like people followed me from their purdup to this job right now. If it's thought about it, what do you think some of those reasons are? I mean part of it sounds like you just take the time to invest in your people. Super Important. What else do you think contributes to that? Because that's like the dream, right like to keep your crew of people who work really well with you know you can get a lot of stuff done and have fun with and then just go work on different projects together. That's the best. Yeah, I'll admit that I still like it's such...

...a warm feeling. This is the first time I have joined a company where I've had that. Call it loyalty, call it whatever you like, but I've never experienced it before. And there's actually seven people from my old company that are now here at are a hundred and ten person company. It's not only warm for me, but I've seen one of our team managers. His name is Dan. He was an individual contributor at our last company and he actually came onto the company before I did and was offered a team manager role and, oh my gosh, the praise that he's receiving from everyone at the company. It's just so empowering to see that someone took a chance on him to put him in a in a management role, and and those folks, I don't know if they followed him, they followed me. It's probably combination of both, but I think the moral of the story is if you find the people that you want to work with, continue working with them, you never know what doors open or clothes, and then spend the time one on one with your people. Dan and I, the team manager I'm mentioning, we actually developed a really good relationship at our last company and I believed in him, Ian and Brendan, who are on my team today. You know, I brought on them on to my team and you know, in the future brought him on to amplify. So I think there's a lot to say that your everyday behavior and how you communicate with your co workers really has a long lasting impact. I feel very fortunate that I have these folks that I work with. It feels like the family has moved and we were a little pot of seven, but being part of a large organization, we feel very close to each other and it helps, especially in covid right, because none of us have never met any of these other people in person. So, all that being said, is true. People well, invest in your people, the individual contributors and the management level, because you never know what's going...

...to happen, who's going to get promoted, who's going to be, you know, running strategy, or who's going to be the one that's actually executing on things? Each one of us is important and make those long lasting relationships hundred percent pre stories. Oh Yeah, oh, somebody else too that I wanted to ask you about. We're just like, okay, they're sometimes it does make sense to leave a job, right, but I at least in Sass sales, like you make it past a year, like you're a quote, veteran, two years and a beyonce, like, Oh God, you're a dinosaur if you've been here forever. And it's like I really enjoy that, like I feel like I've been an hourage three an a beer that I feel like settled in, like I've got my people, I'm learning every day, like I'm having a great time. So, like, what do you think is an acceptable amount of time for somebody to stay? Like is it is the year? Like still like okay, yeah, like that's chill. Can Bounce another opportunity if you want to. Or do you think? Yeah, I guess long wounded. Question. What is an acceptable amount of time for somebody to say, at a job these days. Oh yeah, that's it. That's a tricky one. Well, I'll share the expectations that I set with with my team. So again, my AE and my pre sales guy, both of them, I said I want you here for two years. After that, I want to help set you down the path ath of where you need to go, and both of them, in my opinion, are going to follow that track. There's a bit of an age difference there and say there's a decade in between both of the folks that I'm mentioning, and I've seen the numbers that certain ages happen to hop from job to job and sometimes it seems like the one and a half to two year mark is one that happens and I think from a different generational perspective you're seeing people stay...

...the lifetime and then there's kind of the middle ground and I feel that's like the two to three year mark. So I guess to answer your question, it's still feels like today's Day and age is two years. You're either going to get a pretty decent promotion or you're going to move on to the next company. And for companies that aren't able to do that promotion in that timeframe, I think what's really important is you have to set the vision. You have to set the vision and you have to communicate that out, because someone may stick around for three to five years if they know where they will be at that point. Strategies can evolve, but you know, if you're making decisions in a corner and you come back and the strategies continue to move with no like vision of attached to it, people are going to going to move, even if you offer them, you know, the bump. So so all that being said is I'm going back to the two year mark. Stay with a company for two years. Hopefully there's a opportunity to promote you to have an additional learning experiences and find a company with a strategy that you can get behind and they have the values that you share. Yeah, and I think if I'm here any correctly, like it's so important like on day one, like you said, paint the vision and talk about like Hey, here's the opportunity at hand and it's not just like hey, I'm going to work from this title to that title or whatever. Like the tactical thing is like you're to learn all these things. Here's a project you're going to be attached to and like you will have. Whatever you leave here, your resume and your job experience will be stronger and hopefully, you know, like you've taken things away from it, because I think that's what most people like. Great employees are not just there, in my opinion, to you know, punch the clock or whatever the term is. You know, they want to learn stuff, they want to be challenged all the time and then time flies and then of its already been this long. Yeah, and and now the last thing I'd say. There was a book I read. Of course I don't remember what the book was called, but it was talking about having kind of...

...the Richard Branson think, having generals and lieutenants. And if you think about the sea levels as your generals and the lieutenants in this case, kind of that Middle Management Layer. I'm so happy that I'm working with these other middle managers, so we're all on the director level and my colleagues, I feel like we're able to run the company. Of course we have our sea levels that are doing their part here, but we have such a solid group of lieutenants then it allows the space and breathing room for our generals to go and figure out what our strategy is, and I think that's another key thing here, is a lot of the times there's that missing piece between your sea levels and the individual contributor at the ground level and if there's no time or as a company grows, it's going to be more and more difficult to make that connection. Having those lieutenants or that MI middle management, that director level to communicate out the vision at a more tactical level can be connect with your people. That is incredibly important and I feel like that's one of the reasons that we've grown and we've been able to do what we do is because our our director level has been able to be that that level to liaise up, up and down, up and down the line. What of it? Well, I feel like I could talk to you about this all day, but I do have one left question for you. When you're thinking like as a leader right, where do you want to go? Are you thinking about longevity, like, what are thing that you look for? We're like, yeah, I could see myself doing want to tell people to do, staying here for two years at least, organize cool projects. What are like those things that get your spidy sense is going? We're like, yeah, this is a good spot I should check it out. I'm going to answer your que and twofold, one for a he's and one for future leaders. For the a's, I think the most important thing is going to be your manager, your direct manager. So during your interview process you need to learn as much as...

...you can about that person. How long have they've been at the company? What's their leadership style? You know, maybe talk to some of their previous a he's that reported to them, because that person's your advocate. They're going to protect you, they're going to help get you to the next level and you're kind of writing their coat tails and potentially surpassing them. Finding a company with the values that aligned to you, with the strategy you can get behind and something that you're interested in right. You're not going to go work in some field that you're not interested for being in my role, you know I actually took like six to nine months of evaluating them before I came on board, and the number one through three reasons were the people at the top. I had a chance to meet our two cofounders and I really could get behind what they were offering as a company. They wanted to differentiate themselves from the pack and really focus on their people and not focus on just the bottom line, just on margin, and that was something different that a lot of companies haven't haven't been successful at. So the number one thing was, again, my manager. The second was the director level. I really looked at that middle management layer and said, is this the sort of group that I want to work with? Like, do I feel comfortable and my part of the team? Are the right people on the bus? Honestly, number one and number two like like. That's probably it. Your leadership, the strategy that they have, the people that you'll be working with on the ground floor, glass door. Go take a look at your company, see how they're rated. There's going to be the the ones in the tens. Maybe you can just just go ahead and throw those out. Look at the the rest of it. What's the average saying like take do your research and find a company again that line with your values and you're going to be set up for success totally. And I'm frankly trying to find the article and of course can't find it, but Manny Medine, our CEO would outreach, and our founders, Gordon was Andrew Kinder. They were featured in this gee choir article that was talking about their two thousand and eleven text oars, like entrepreneurship incubator, and...

...one of the things that was called out is, like they're told in this camp that, like a lot of times investors, and you know, Angel Investors, are making a bet on you as the person, and sometimes it's not because of your idea, it's like because of your team, in spite of your ideas, even if, like, your project doesn't look so hot. Well, yeah, I can really trust the screw and I think that's what you're saying too. Of like, if you are looking at an opportunity like that, I could get behind the executive team here, like all follow them out there. I totally trust them. Our values are aligned. Inevitably, the business is going to have to Pittot at some point and it's good to have people like that in your core and to be in theirs. Yeah, I'll end this with a golf analogy. So last week or last Friday, we had a scramble, and for those of you that don't know what that is, you can look it up, but you're you're playing eighteen holes with a team and we played best ball, which means you, you guys, kind of all hit at the same time and whoever's balls for this along, you're going to go with that one. Well, there were six teams competing and my team won and it was such a great moment because everyone came out to me and said, how did you win, because everyone knows I'm I'm like a two out of ten on golf. But in my opinion we had a bunch of players. The four of us were. We all had a good mixture of when we really showed up and we had the best ball right, but individually I do not believe any one of us would have won, and I think it goes back into like this whole team mantra. Though. Of what I'm saying is you got to find the right leader, you have to find the right team, because not one person gets a company moving forward. At the director level, at the at the leadership level and the individual contributor level. There has to be a solid mix. It doesn't have to be every single employee, but it has to be. You've got to...

...have that core, core group and you know, with those folks that have followed me from my last company, I know those people are going to move into middle management quickly and I'm really excited to see that happen and if we can continue doing what we're doing, I really feel like we can make this a place that we're really excited to be at. I love it. I'm glad y'all want. I was really trying to think of something funny to say. I don't know near line up about golf solves attempts to myself. Well, Durus as allays, this has been a real treat and I learned a lot, and I hope everybody else listening to too. If they want to get in touch with you, where can I find you? Yeah, they can't be up on Linkedin. Sjuriso Malle Jear iceee Oh'Malley, pretty standard name on that side. You could also reach me at Jurissa Mallie at GMAILCOM and find me and give me a give me Holler. Love to chat. Awesome. Well, thanks so much for you siduring rest of your night. Thanks, Brett. This was another episode of the sales engagement podcast. To help this get in front of more eyes and ears, please leave us a shining five star review. Join US at sales engagementcom for new episodes. Resources in the book on sales engagement to get the most out of your sales engagement strategy. Make sure to check out outreach that ioh, the leading sales engagement platform. See you on the next episode.

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