The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 2 weeks ago

The Great Resignation: Retaining Your Top Talent

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The great resignation.

We’ve all heard about it. In the United States, COVID-19 has led to what’s been dubbed “The Great Resignation.” According to recent research by Microsoft, more than 40% of the global workforce are considering leaving their employers this year.

That’s a lot of talent walking out the door. So how do you keep that talent? How do you invest in your workforce so that they won’t want to leave? It’s like that Richard Branson quote: “Train people well enough so that they can leave. Treat them well enough that they don’t want to.” On this episode of the Sales Engagement podcast, we sit down with Jerice O'Malley, Head of Business Development & Sales at Amplify Consulting Partners Inc, to talk all about:

- The Great Resignation and how she’s seen it impact the consulting world

- Advice for managers who are looking to retain their top talent

- Why people follow leaders from company to company

- Why people are staying at jobs for less and less time these days

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Sales Engagement

in your favorite podcast player.

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast.This podcast is brought you by outreach, the leading sales engagement platform, andthey just launched outreach on outreach, the place to learn how outreach. Welldoes outreach? Learn how the team follows up with every lead in record timeafter virtual events and turns them into revenue. You can also see how outreach one'saccount based plays, manages reps and so much more using their own salesengagement platform. Everything is backed by data pulled from outreach processes and customer base. When you're done, you'll be able to do it as good as theydo. Head to outreach that io on outreach to see what they have goingon. Now let's get into today's episode. Everybody broke but chest in your parttimepodcast and the sales engagement podcast and fulltime xtr enable. One manager hereat ourtreach and I am delighted to be joined today by a super talented salesmanager and a very nice lady, Jery so Malley. We're going to betalking about the great resignation and how to come back, that retaining your toughtalent race. How you doing? Good, Dabby back. Yeah, thanks forhaving me back for really excited to chat today. Me Too, andfor those who may have missed your previous episode, you also check it out. It's all about sponsoring phones, mentoring supporting women in the workplace juries.Because you tell us where do you work and what is your old there?Yeah, so my role I'm ahead of sales and business development for amplified consultingpartners or management consulting firm, and my keen interest is actually on the dataand analytic side. So the pillar internally gets a lot of love for meand I'm trying to up that on the rest of our pillars. That's awesome. It's a good time to be keen on data. I feel like therise of like everybody's trying to be more efficient. We got revenue innovators,always things working from home in front of do more with less, so that'sgood. Yeah, it's definitely been a...

...fun ride. No complaints. Awesome. And how many sailed up do you have on your team these days?That's a great question. So I'm fortunate to have a small but large team. So there's the first company I've worked at where our entire leadership team isactually selling. They're out there doing their thing, their relationships that they've hadfor many years. Those are the folks that we're doing work with. Sowe've got three sellers at the top. Are Three Sea levels. Then we'vegot a slew of account managers. We've got about for count managers and thentoo on the director side, so we've got six. And then my team. There's three of us. So all in all were right around a littlebit of over ten people that are actively selling. But my immediate team isactually myself, one AE and one pre sales architect. So it's Kutty,the ying and the Yang. Everyone contributes in their own way, but Iwould I would say it's kind of a team of ten. That's great andit's cool that you've got like a smaller squad because he gets know everybody andget to work on deals the same people every single time. I imagine that'sprobably good for business and just process of like you know each other well enoughto kind of read each other's minds. Yeah, I mean there's there's thegood in the bad with everything. It's definitely been new for me to havethree leaders at the top contributing in that way. The good is more morepower behind, you know, our growth and expansion. The bad is justthe additional coordination layer that you're going to have to add into the mix.But it's been great. You know, the company's actually doubled revenue in thelast year grass. But it kind of leads to the topic of today,is like how do you how do you sustain that growth? How do youkeep your people happy? How do you just prepare for for what's to come? Right, do you put in a...

...plan to keep and retain your people? Do you expect the people to leave? So yeah, it's definitely a greattopic to chat about. Totally and like I feel like, I'm sureI'm going to butcher this, but I think it's a Richard Brand and quotewhere he says like I want to hire and coach people so they become likethe best of the best. Everybody wants to hire them, but treat themall enough so that they don't want to leave. I feel like that isso ideal. But yeah, you're right, like how do we actually do that? So we heard all this stuff about the great resignation right, likeeverybody was preparing for everybody to do it really aunty. This summer. Vaccinesare coming out. People are ready for change or sick of being at homeand in some cases I feel like it happened right like it did. Seemlike there's a lot of movement in the industry, but I don't know.Do you think it was any worse this year? Greece, like I feellike sales people, the war for talent is always happening and sales people tand you know, there is a lot of opportunities, so they move alot. But do you think it was worse this year than in the past? I say so. My answers actually not going to be on sales specificit's just generally speaking. So, as a consulting firm, we don't havea product per se. Are Our product, or our talent, if you will, are our people, and so our people are People's ideas, they'reconsultative nature, their personalities, their expertise like that is really what makes ussucceed as a company. And so thinking about each one of our employees,from the back end folks, operations, sales, to the folks that arecontributing to these projects, we've been thinking through how do we how do wekeep our people right? The topic of I think, as it relates toour immediate sales team, I'm fortunate enough that the two people on my immediateteam, Brendon to Ian, actually followed me from our previous company. SoI've had that great chance to work with...

...people that I've worked with before Ihired them, because I knew how they how they worked, I knew whatthey're looking for, setting up a great foundation. In terms of our consultants, I feel like that's an even hotter market where, especially the the thechat on data analytics consulting, our people are getting offers from from every company. I mean everyone in the market is just getting offers, whether it's consultingfirms or companies directly. It's been tough. I definitely have seen a lot morechurn. Generally speaking. People are kind of shortening their durations at companiesand really going to companies that have have values that aligned to them, compensationis fair and the compensation is not purely just their base salary. It's like, what do the bonuses look like? How am I incentivized to stay?I think an interesting thought is you know, from a consulting perspective, people havesome great offers when they come on board, but what's missing is whathappens your year two, your three year four. Sometimes it makes sense toleave a company and come back. We're seeing a lot of those boomerangs.Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting to when you talk about like compensation,the for folks who have left and come back, was like the reason theyleft initially? Purely they sound calm, or was it something else? Likewhen you say that that year two, your three, what do you meanby that? Yeah, well, thinking about consulting and thinking about salespeople kindof two different things here. But in terms of consulting, it depends onor just anyone operations in general. It depends on what the initial offer lookslike and how the bonus structure happens. Like I said, you're to youthree, you four, and it's almost like all these companies are putting allof their energy and effort into the land,...

...right the land of hiring someone andsetting it that trajectory up front, and so everyone's on board. Ido think a lot of times people just sign on, they're really excited butthey have no idea what your two happens. So that's where we're at right now. Totally, and I'm imagining though, like that, your two and three. Sure compensation does need to be there, especially with Consultans, likeif you're highly incentivized, they were the first year, where you're like,look, I like my team, but this is an offer. I can'tsay no to what or some other and then you know, they invitably leaveand go somewhere else in the brabs come back. What are some ways thaty'all are thinking about keeping folks, because at some point will reach a ceilingwhere it's like all right, either my specific company or the industry like wecan go above a certain threshold before it's like astronomical and like totally unreasonable,totally and and that's that's kind of the most exciting part of this conversation.So going back to my team, I work with them before. We allkind of went different directions. I moved over here. They that you kindof followed me over here and and I think for me, the fact thatI have, going to use a term, the fact that I have this loyaltybehind me, it really means something at a deeper level. And sowhat I would say is connecting with your people on both a professional and personallevel is really, really important. I've learned to improve my skills as amanager. For instance, you can have one on one's with your team,and some of you guys have remote team members, so that's really all youhave. Thirty minutes, one hour a week, something like that. Butone of my direct reports lives here in San Diego with me, and sowe've actually changed our oneonone to go into the driving ranger, going to playa full eighteen. He loves to golf and the reason I'm sharing that iswe've found something that that works. He...

...gets him exciting did I also likeenjoy doing that. But we connect on this different level where we're not alwaysjust talking about work and career path. You're really getting to know that individual. You care about their success, you care about what they want to do, and that personal connection, I think, is number one. The second thingI'd say is when you do have these conversations, is really as Imentioned before, is is understanding them holistically, and so maybe their career path isone topic, but it needs to support their other aspirations. Maybe there's, you know, the family life component, maybe they want to relocate, maybethey want, I don't know, kind of throw something out there thatdoesn't hundred percent relate to work. Making sure that you hear all of thosethings and connecting with them is really important. The last thing I'd say is onthe compensation front. You're right, we're going to hit a ceiling atsome point. I think the important thing to notice is you need to knowwhat industry standards are offering, whether it's full package compensations, whether it's thespecific dollar amount, whether it's the job title. Again, connect with youremployees, understand what specifically they are driven by and try to find some alignmentthere. I think at the end of the day, you're going to haveteam members that are driven by one thing and it could be job title,compensation, worklife bounce. It could be one or could be all. Ithink the best thing to to understand is just take the time to understand yourpeople. Understand that some of them are going to leave, but the peoplethat you will want to work within, the people that want to work withyou, you're going to you're going to find a way to balance it out. And the last thing I would say is advocate for your people. Youbrought them onto your team. There's there's that loyalty that's in place. Thereset some boundaries and expectations of what they can expect at your company, butit's your job as the manager to really be that servant leader, to advocatefor them. If they want X,...

...is it possible, and go tobat for them. If you're not going to go to bat for them,you know why are they on your team? At the same time, you haveto set expectations and the best person to set those expectations is their manager, not their skip level, not the sea level, but you need tohave that personal conversation to say hey, this is what's expected and here's whatwe can do. So all of that, I think, leads to people staying, leads to people enjoying their time and at the time that they doneed to leave, you know it's a peaceful exit. Who knows, maybethey'll work with you at your next company. Totally. Yeah, the the salesworld, consulting role, whatever industry you're in, I find it becomesvery small and a great way and you'll totally run into people again. There'sso much to unpack. Their dury something I got. I was like takinglike a crazy person, but I want to double tap on like the golfsituation one, because I think it's phenomenal. You're right, like you have toget make the effort as a manage. I think dancy know people outside ofthe office, whether that's like we're going to dinner, we'll go walkand get coffee if you're in a remote situation, like taking the time todo something that's like not work related, because it's important to get people outof the box and I think that's what we lost so much of in Covidwas like, man, I now I have to plan my small talk.I have this like odd little thirty minute window, like let's not go outsmall talk. How's your family? How's your job? How are you feelingabout all those things, they'll start about your number. It's very rush solike do you have any advice for managers or like I'm trying to find thathuman aspect again when I am in, like we're talking about earlier backtoback meetingsand I don't have a ton of time and I want to be conscious oflike people are sick of screen time at the end of the day. Youknow, yeah, that I totally see that and you know I'm not Idon't not say that this works, but this is what we've done. Somy pod we will meet individually for an...

...hour at a time and then weactually have daily stand ups together. They used to be tactical, but nowwe've changed it into like how can we, as a team, eliminate those roadblocksfor each other? And and I just comment it on someone on Linkedinhad posted something about this. I think as a manager you need to findthe right amount of availability for your team, but at the same time you've gotto get work done as well, and so we've carved out more timeeach morning so that we can come together, we can figure out what's happening andwe're available and I think throughout the day if there's something else that comesup, you know we're going to have another touch point the next morning.If something is an emergency, you guys identify the form of communication for themto escalate and reach you. Otherwise you guys are really just operating on yourown track lines. So that's what we've found that works. And the lastthing I'll say is we are all very respectful of our work life balance andso you know, before eight am, after five PM, there's there's notalk about work. Obviously there's certain things that escalate probably towards quarter end yougot to have those conversations, but really we do our best job of notcommunicating after about work, after those hours or before those hours, and it'sbeen working. So yeah, that that works for our team. I thinkthat's so great because the common bird that's coming through is just the need toto overcommunicate. And I think, but I know with my like what Ihad, I've been able to Andre. Now I don't have to direct report, but when I did and the pandemic hit, like everybody went out oftheir way to like over communicate. So we had daily Huddles, we hadlike multiple one online, there was like pod sequencing time and candidly, Ifeel like maybe this is just my own little bubble, but it seems likepeople are kind of getting away from that...

...because remote is becoming so normalized.But it clearly with teams who make it a priority. Okay, we haveto talk to each other and it can't just be when something's on fire.There's a lot of success then. Yeah, and I think what ill piggyback offthere is what we were doing at first was the the daily stand upswhere we would go line by line in sales force. What are we focusingon this, you know, today, and then we would go line byline over every single detail and my team was the one that actually spoke upto me and said, drees, it's actually not a really good use ofany of our time. Why don't we just, you know, we haveto better manage our own calendars and our own responsibilities. Let's meet on aweekly basis and then on those daily sinks. Let's not eliminate that time block,but let's just be available for each other. I'll admit half the timewe don't even talk about work, which is fine, yeah, and theother half the time and say, Hey, I actually really need your help toeliminate this road block. Can you help me out? We're all linethere. We go tackle that and we're on to the next. So Ilove that. You know, I maybe it's in in the period of covidwhere people are having to speak up and they have to share what what ischallenging. That's something that I've seen my team grow and be able to communicate. That's great. The other topic that you brought up was like, like, I feel like I have a really like loyal squad of like people followedme from their purdup to this job right now. If it's thought about it, what do you think some of those reasons are? I mean part ofit sounds like you just take the time to invest in your people. SuperImportant. What else do you think contributes to that? Because that's like thedream, right like to keep your crew of people who work really well withyou know you can get a lot of stuff done and have fun with andthen just go work on different projects together. That's the best. Yeah, I'lladmit that I still like it's such...

...a warm feeling. This is thefirst time I have joined a company where I've had that. Call it loyalty, call it whatever you like, but I've never experienced it before. Andthere's actually seven people from my old company that are now here at are ahundred and ten person company. It's not only warm for me, but I'veseen one of our team managers. His name is Dan. He was anindividual contributor at our last company and he actually came onto the company before Idid and was offered a team manager role and, oh my gosh, thepraise that he's receiving from everyone at the company. It's just so empowering tosee that someone took a chance on him to put him in a in amanagement role, and and those folks, I don't know if they followed him, they followed me. It's probably combination of both, but I think themoral of the story is if you find the people that you want to workwith, continue working with them, you never know what doors open or clothes, and then spend the time one on one with your people. Dan andI, the team manager I'm mentioning, we actually developed a really good relationshipat our last company and I believed in him, Ian and Brendan, whoare on my team today. You know, I brought on them on to myteam and you know, in the future brought him on to amplify.So I think there's a lot to say that your everyday behavior and how youcommunicate with your co workers really has a long lasting impact. I feel veryfortunate that I have these folks that I work with. It feels like thefamily has moved and we were a little pot of seven, but being partof a large organization, we feel very close to each other and it helps, especially in covid right, because none of us have never met any ofthese other people in person. So, all that being said, is true. People well, invest in your people, the individual contributors and the management level, because you never know what's going...

...to happen, who's going to getpromoted, who's going to be, you know, running strategy, or who'sgoing to be the one that's actually executing on things? Each one of usis important and make those long lasting relationships hundred percent pre stories. Oh Yeah, oh, somebody else too that I wanted to ask you about. We'rejust like, okay, they're sometimes it does make sense to leave a job, right, but I at least in Sass sales, like you make itpast a year, like you're a quote, veteran, two years and a beyonce, like, Oh God, you're a dinosaur if you've been here forever. And it's like I really enjoy that, like I feel like I've been anhourage three an a beer that I feel like settled in, like I'vegot my people, I'm learning every day, like I'm having a great time.So, like, what do you think is an acceptable amount of timefor somebody to stay? Like is it is the year? Like still likeokay, yeah, like that's chill. Can Bounce another opportunity if you wantto. Or do you think? Yeah, I guess long wounded. Question.What is an acceptable amount of time for somebody to say, at ajob these days. Oh yeah, that's it. That's a tricky one.Well, I'll share the expectations that I set with with my team. Soagain, my AE and my pre sales guy, both of them, Isaid I want you here for two years. After that, I want to helpset you down the path ath of where you need to go, andboth of them, in my opinion, are going to follow that track.There's a bit of an age difference there and say there's a decade in betweenboth of the folks that I'm mentioning, and I've seen the numbers that certainages happen to hop from job to job and sometimes it seems like the oneand a half to two year mark is one that happens and I think froma different generational perspective you're seeing people stay...

...the lifetime and then there's kind ofthe middle ground and I feel that's like the two to three year mark.So I guess to answer your question, it's still feels like today's Day andage is two years. You're either going to get a pretty decent promotion oryou're going to move on to the next company. And for companies that aren'table to do that promotion in that timeframe, I think what's really important is youhave to set the vision. You have to set the vision and youhave to communicate that out, because someone may stick around for three to fiveyears if they know where they will be at that point. Strategies can evolve, but you know, if you're making decisions in a corner and you comeback and the strategies continue to move with no like vision of attached to it, people are going to going to move, even if you offer them, youknow, the bump. So so all that being said is I'm goingback to the two year mark. Stay with a company for two years.Hopefully there's a opportunity to promote you to have an additional learning experiences and finda company with a strategy that you can get behind and they have the valuesthat you share. Yeah, and I think if I'm here any correctly,like it's so important like on day one, like you said, paint the visionand talk about like Hey, here's the opportunity at hand and it's notjust like hey, I'm going to work from this title to that title orwhatever. Like the tactical thing is like you're to learn all these things.Here's a project you're going to be attached to and like you will have.Whatever you leave here, your resume and your job experience will be stronger andhopefully, you know, like you've taken things away from it, because Ithink that's what most people like. Great employees are not just there, inmy opinion, to you know, punch the clock or whatever the term is. You know, they want to learn stuff, they want to be challengedall the time and then time flies and then of its already been this long. Yeah, and and now the last thing I'd say. There was abook I read. Of course I don't remember what the book was called,but it was talking about having kind of...

...the Richard Branson think, having generalsand lieutenants. And if you think about the sea levels as your generals andthe lieutenants in this case, kind of that Middle Management Layer. I'm sohappy that I'm working with these other middle managers, so we're all on thedirector level and my colleagues, I feel like we're able to run the company. Of course we have our sea levels that are doing their part here,but we have such a solid group of lieutenants then it allows the space andbreathing room for our generals to go and figure out what our strategy is,and I think that's another key thing here, is a lot of the times there'sthat missing piece between your sea levels and the individual contributor at the groundlevel and if there's no time or as a company grows, it's going tobe more and more difficult to make that connection. Having those lieutenants or thatMI middle management, that director level to communicate out the vision at a moretactical level can be connect with your people. That is incredibly important and I feellike that's one of the reasons that we've grown and we've been able todo what we do is because our our director level has been able to bethat that level to liaise up, up and down, up and down theline. What of it? Well, I feel like I could talk toyou about this all day, but I do have one left question for you. When you're thinking like as a leader right, where do you want togo? Are you thinking about longevity, like, what are thing that youlook for? We're like, yeah, I could see myself doing want totell people to do, staying here for two years at least, organize coolprojects. What are like those things that get your spidy sense is going?We're like, yeah, this is a good spot I should check it out. I'm going to answer your que and twofold, one for a he's andone for future leaders. For the a's, I think the most important thing isgoing to be your manager, your direct manager. So during your interviewprocess you need to learn as much as...

...you can about that person. Howlong have they've been at the company? What's their leadership style? You know, maybe talk to some of their previous a he's that reported to them,because that person's your advocate. They're going to protect you, they're going tohelp get you to the next level and you're kind of writing their coat tailsand potentially surpassing them. Finding a company with the values that aligned to you, with the strategy you can get behind and something that you're interested in right. You're not going to go work in some field that you're not interested forbeing in my role, you know I actually took like six to nine monthsof evaluating them before I came on board, and the number one through three reasonswere the people at the top. I had a chance to meet ourtwo cofounders and I really could get behind what they were offering as a company. They wanted to differentiate themselves from the pack and really focus on their peopleand not focus on just the bottom line, just on margin, and that wassomething different that a lot of companies haven't haven't been successful at. Sothe number one thing was, again, my manager. The second was thedirector level. I really looked at that middle management layer and said, isthis the sort of group that I want to work with? Like, doI feel comfortable and my part of the team? Are the right people onthe bus? Honestly, number one and number two like like. That's probablyit. Your leadership, the strategy that they have, the people that you'llbe working with on the ground floor, glass door. Go take a lookat your company, see how they're rated. There's going to be the the onesin the tens. Maybe you can just just go ahead and throw thoseout. Look at the the rest of it. What's the average saying liketake do your research and find a company again that line with your values andyou're going to be set up for success totally. And I'm frankly trying tofind the article and of course can't find it, but Manny Medine, ourCEO would outreach, and our founders, Gordon was Andrew Kinder. They werefeatured in this gee choir article that was talking about their two thousand and eleventext oars, like entrepreneurship incubator, and...

...one of the things that was calledout is, like they're told in this camp that, like a lot oftimes investors, and you know, Angel Investors, are making a bet onyou as the person, and sometimes it's not because of your idea, it'slike because of your team, in spite of your ideas, even if,like, your project doesn't look so hot. Well, yeah, I can reallytrust the screw and I think that's what you're saying too. Of like, if you are looking at an opportunity like that, I could get behindthe executive team here, like all follow them out there. I totally trustthem. Our values are aligned. Inevitably, the business is going to have toPittot at some point and it's good to have people like that in yourcore and to be in theirs. Yeah, I'll end this with a golf analogy. So last week or last Friday, we had a scramble, and forthose of you that don't know what that is, you can look itup, but you're you're playing eighteen holes with a team and we played bestball, which means you, you guys, kind of all hit at the sametime and whoever's balls for this along, you're going to go with that one. Well, there were six teams competing and my team won and itwas such a great moment because everyone came out to me and said, howdid you win, because everyone knows I'm I'm like a two out of tenon golf. But in my opinion we had a bunch of players. Thefour of us were. We all had a good mixture of when we reallyshowed up and we had the best ball right, but individually I do notbelieve any one of us would have won, and I think it goes back intolike this whole team mantra. Though. Of what I'm saying is you gotto find the right leader, you have to find the right team,because not one person gets a company moving forward. At the director level,at the at the leadership level and the individual contributor level. There has tobe a solid mix. It doesn't have to be every single employee, butit has to be. You've got to...

...have that core, core group andyou know, with those folks that have followed me from my last company,I know those people are going to move into middle management quickly and I'm reallyexcited to see that happen and if we can continue doing what we're doing,I really feel like we can make this a place that we're really excited tobe at. I love it. I'm glad y'all want. I was reallytrying to think of something funny to say. I don't know near line up aboutgolf solves attempts to myself. Well, Durus as allays, this has beena real treat and I learned a lot, and I hope everybody elselistening to too. If they want to get in touch with you, wherecan I find you? Yeah, they can't be up on Linkedin. SjurisoMalle Jear iceee Oh'Malley, pretty standard name on that side. You could alsoreach me at Jurissa Mallie at GMAILCOM and find me and give me a giveme Holler. Love to chat. Awesome. Well, thanks so much for yousiduring rest of your night. Thanks, Brett. This was another episode ofthe sales engagement podcast. To help this get in front of more eyesand ears, please leave us a shining five star review. Join US atsales engagementcom for new episodes. Resources in the book on sales engagement to getthe most out of your sales engagement strategy. Make sure to check out outreach thatioh, the leading sales engagement platform. See you on the next episode.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (315)