The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 8 months ago

Culture: Creating Conditions for People to Thrive w/ Ben Schemper

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Sales is conversations. Sales is relationships.

Leadership is conversations. Leadership is relationships.

How do you ensure that these relationships and conversations are happening on a foundation of true connection?

In this episode, I interview Ben Schemper, CEO at Abundant, about human connection, culture, and leadership.

What we talked about:

  • Leaders have influence to affect culture profoundly
  • Engaging not just the mind but also the heart
  • The importance of psychological safety
  • The traits of an abundant leader

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Sales Engagement in your favorite podcast player.
 

Hey folks, it's under me born. Now, before jumping in, I've got to tell you about on leasttwo thousand and twenty one. On May eleven through thirteen, were focusing onhow to win together in the new sales era. You'll learn new go tomarket strategies, get deeper funnel insides and actional takeaways for your entire org fromrevenue leaders, Highgro startups and fortune five hundred companies and are very special guestsor none other than Guy Raz the podcaster and author of how I built thisand carry lawns, the first female fighter pilot in the US Navy. ComeSave Your seat for this high energy online event at only stock outreached out ioh. Now let's get into it. Welcome to the sales engagement of PODCAST.This podcast is brought to you by outreach, the leading sales engagement platform, andthey just launched outreach on outreach, the place to learn how outreach.Well does outreach? Learn how the team follows up with every lead in recordtime after virtual events and turns them into revenue. You can also see howoutreach runs account based plays, manages reps and so much more using their ownsales engagement platform. Everything is backed by data pulled from outreach processes and customerbase. When you're done, you'll be able to do it as good asthey do. Head to outreach, that io on outreach, to see whatthey have going on. Now let's get into today's episode. All right,everybody, welcome back to the sales engagement podcast. If this is your firsttime to the PODCAST, welcome to the show. You're joined here by AlexFremer. I am one of your hosts, and I am joined by actually avery special guest, a very close friend of mine, Mr Ben Scamper. So Been Hey. First off, flo on the show man. Thanksfor having me, Alex, it's a pleasure to be here, and anybodywho's their first time, you chose the right episode to be your first timeto listen. Let me go on today. That's wrong. Saying well, Ben, I first want to just thank you for being here and honor you. I've known you for what is a five to sixty or something along thoselines. Along those lines, you have been a close friend of mine.You've been a close mentor of mine. I've done a lot of work withyou and with your organization and excited for you to be here and just talka little bit about, first off, who you are, because I thinkyou're very special, unique leader and individual, and talk a little bit about whatyou're doing in this world and what you're doing to impact so many differenttypes of sales professionals, so many difference of leaders, so many different yesof companies and organizations as well, in addition to people like myself. Sofirst off, Bennett, if you want to kind of kicks off with you, who you are, what you care about? Yeah, well, whoam I? What do I care about? Some of you watching video notice Ihave something on my face right now. I actually I was in a partof a virtual cacaw ceremony earlier today and contemplated should I keep this onmy face, because at the end you kind of spread some Cocao on yourface and I said, hell yeah, I'm going to keep it on myface for the podcast because I think it actually speaks to part of who Iwho I am and what we do. It abundant. And who am I? I am somebody who is very passionate about transformation and creating experiences for leadersto experience transformation themselves, and I'm really passionate about leadership. I'm really passionateabout developing leaders, helping others develop leaders. I'm passionate about culture, the environmentthat really potentiates results, potentiates business, and that's something that I've always been, whether I had the language for that or not, passionate about.I've studied it a lot, I've practiced it a lot when I've had theblessing and the benefits of being able to support thousands of leaders in developing leadersthemselves, developing culture themselves and really learning from them in the process and seeingwho's doing an amazing job who's struggling, and really seeing the different ingredients theycontribute to an organization or a team or...

...an individual thriving or getting stuck onthe journey. I'm passionate about leadership and I'm passionate about leaders really creating culturesthat allow people to grow and transform. You know so then you are CEOof an organization called abundance. Abundant is an unbelievably impactful organization that is notjust help being individual sales reps. you help being leaders. Like you said, you're hoping develop the culture as well. I guess you know give us alittle bit of background in terms of forstoff. What is bunnet and whatwas really your journey to starting this organization that has impacted so many? Nowat this point, yeah, I'll dive in and Alex feel free to kindof guide me you want me to speak to anything specifically. But yeah,we at abundant. We work with both individual leaders who could be a highperformer, high performing individual contributor all the way up to an executive, right. So we work with individual leaders. We also work with organizations and cultures, and in some ways it's kind of important to say that you can't separatethe two, because leaders must do the work first for culture to change,or they must do the work with their culture for Culture to change. Sothose two are kind of inseparable. But who we typically work with? Ourindividuals and organizations that are experiencing a certain level of success where they've they're experiencingachievement, right. It's like they know how to sell, they've hit bignumbers, they feel proficient at what they do. And that being said,there's there's something that's missing. It's like the work doesn't feel quite meaningful.It feels a little bit vanilla, and that's a really interesting, interesting placeto be. As a high performer or as a high performing culture, andI'll say to any leaders out there, whenever that's the case, that's anorange flag back. Whenever things are feeling a little bit vanilla, that's anorange flag that can quickly turn into a red flag, because the results mightbe there, the money might be there, the achievement might be there, thatperformance might be there, but if things are feeling vanilla and nothing changes, then that's going to accelerate into a situation that becomes a big culture problemand we like to help people with that before it becomes a problem. Andso those are the sorts of people end up working with and it's helping themreally discover what's authentic to them in terms of who they want to be asa leader or what the culture wants to be together. And in that whatwe find is higher levels of performance actually reveal themselves. And so what we'veseen over the last seven years and working with thousands of leaders and hundreds ofteams and organizations is that there's a kind of a threshold which you cannot crossjust focusing on achievement and like let's sell as much as we can, let'sbe the best in our skill set. Let's work as hard as possible.Those ingredients are are critical to high performance, but they can actually only get youso far. And the very peak of performance right, what's possible interms of what can be created, both by an individual or an organization,requires the fullest expression of an individual or the fullest expression of a culture.It requires people to not just be operating from their heads, but be leadingfrom their hearts. They requires people not just to be experiencing great results,but experiencing meaning and connection and long along the way. And so when organizationsand individuals really make an investment into making that a priority for themselves, whetherit's the investment of time, energy or money, that tends to unlock anotherlevel of performance and possibility for them. And it's not always a straight line, because sometimes the culture has to go through a shift or a transition oran individual has to go through a transition to experience that. But ultimately,again, there's a threshold that cannot be crossed without doing that deeper, moreinward, more meaningful workaround authenticity. I love what you say right there,just round you know, tapping into authenticity,...

...and I think a lot of thework that you doing correct if I'm wrong here, is as a topperforming rap or a top performing leader, it's really great to blow out quotaright, it's really great to get that huge check in your account or toget the new car or to get that feeling of significance from that title aswell, and then all of a sudden there's a certain feeling of feel likeI'm missing something. So I would love for you to kind of talk aboutwhat's the typical journey of someone who maybe they're at the top of their game, maybe they're super comfortable and they're starting to say like what, what elseis out there? There's something I'm missing year, and how you support themthrough that? Yeah, and I'M gonna take a little bit of an interestingtake care because you mentioned that question, like what else is out there?And, to be honest, a lot of individual a lot of a lotof people ask that question and you know, I think there's an opportunity for leadersto ask that question of like what else is out there that we canbe bringing in to our culture? What else is out there that we couldbe creating for our people beyond just an opportunity to make a lot of money, because I think a lot of people have seen that that's like. Itain't the s anymore. That's not what's most important to people. Is itimportant? Absolutely, and if you have an opportunity that can pay people alot, you're definitely going to attract more attention and your it's going to bean easier conversation to grow your organization and grow your team. But we livein a really interesting time in human history. It's one of the most complex,if not the most complex time in human history, and there's a lotof demands on an individual which is then experienced by a collective individuals or aculture. The demand of all the different information that we're inundated with with socialmedia and how hyper connected our world is, the demands psychologically of navigating the pandemicand how do I get my needs of connection met, and also thedemands of that of like really questioning your path or your journey, which Isee a lot of leaders and a lot of organizations that value leadership doing,really taking this this last year as a sign, as an opportunity to pause, to actually slow down a bit before the next leg of the journey andask why are we really doing this? where? Where do we really wantto get to? Beyond you know, Ipoh, beyond XYZ results and numbers. What's like? Why the F are we really doing this? And inin today's world? You know, there's what it means to be a humanis something different than it ever has meant before in human history. And anybodylistening to this, it's like you probably remember getting Internet in your home forthe first time. You probably remember you or your parents getting your first cellphone and like this is a fundamental you're listening to this probably on on yourphone or in your car. You might be watching this. This is beingrecorded on, like my computer. None of that stuff existed when I wasa kid or when Alex, when you were a kid, and it's nowsuch a central part of who we are and what life is like, andit's also central part of sales and leadership and organizing with the culture. Sothere's a lot to navigate that. There's been a tremendous amount of change andone of the biggest changes is how much input we all have on a dailybasis. So it's just recognizing like humans have a lot more demand on them. Your salespeople have a lot more demand on them than they ever have andthat goes beyond quota, that goes beyond the demands of their position. Andso, you know, I see a lot of organizations really listening to thatand answering the call of all right, like, what else is out therefor us to create beyond just a financial opportunity for our people? Because ofthe world is calling right now, in the market place is calling right now, and leaders are calling right now for organizations that are really creating opportunities,not just financially, but opportunities for connection,...

...opportunities for meaning, opportunities to bea part of something that really matters and gives a deep sense of purpose. M You know, I think through the pandemic it was very much alittle bit of a punch in the jaw, so to speak, or slap inthe face of Oh man, which direction are we going? I mean, we are so stuck in our ways, we are so about just growing revenuefor so many different types of companies and organizations and all of a suddenthere's this big stop and everybody had to really start to say what is importantto us right now and why are we doing what we do? And there'sbeen such an increased focus across the business world on social causes, on mentalhealth, on making sure that we take care of the employees and the peoplefirst, and no one in trusting that that's going to lead to positive customerand clients experiences. And I think a lot of organizations are going to say, okay, we know that's important, we know that we need to befocusing on that. BNE's come first. I think a lot of organizations,the people you know, myself, are saying it's starting to say a okay, but how how do I do that? How do I make my people feellike, you're, in saying, part of something bigger than themselves,part of a sense of a purpose in this changing landscape, in this changingenvironment? So how do you actually go about supporting people through that, tomake people feel hey, there's a purpose in a vision that we have?Yeah, well, we've got a threeday workshop that helps people with that.Now I'm just getting we do after that. You know, the the reality isthere's a question there that I think leaders have to be committed to askingand asking themselves again and again and looking for even better and better answers,and it's this question of it's not just how do we like honor the realitiesof mental health, and you know I'm speaking to it as like the demandson people psychologically are, however you want to define them. And the questionthat is important for leaders to ask is, what are the conditions in which mypeople will thrive? Hmm, what are the conditions in which my peoplewill thrive? And that's the question that, I believe, as leaders, whereyou need to ask, and there's a lot of intelligence to that.It's like how, what's the culture, what's the environment that we could createthat's going to bring out the best in our people, that's going to makethem feel the most alive, it's going to give them the most energy,that's going to give them most connection and sense of purpose, and then justtrust, like all right, well, those are the ingredients that we wereto write it out on a piece of paper, we would say, likewould lead to the best version of someone showing up. And maybe those ingredientsare different for you or for your organization, right, which is why you gotto ask it yourself. But it's like, all right, yeah,if someone's really energized, if someone is feeling really connected to their peers,if they're really connected to their purpose, right, they're engaged into their work, beyond the result, but they really feel how it's a contribution towards abigger mission or towards the impact that they want to make in their life insome way. If they feel accepted for who they are, they feel psychologicallysafe. Right, the most important ingredient, as has been found by Google andby, you know, many business schools, to a high performing culture. So if these things exist, someone's going to be at their best.Right, also having a clear vision that's inspiring to them. All right.So if they have these things, are going to be at their best.So let's just create the environment where they have these things, because their bestthey're probably going to sell more, they're probably going to get creative and howthey navigate challenges. They're going to be more resourceful in how they answer questions. They're going to want to be more they're going to contribute more to theirpeers, to their the other individuals of their team. They'RE gonna want toget more involved into the organization and really taking on its mission as their own. Like, all these things are going to happen as a product of creatingan environment where the best is really brought out of an individual and a team. So I think ask the question that...

...leaders have to ask. And whenwe ask that question we start to see culture, we start to see leadershipor management in a different way. We start to see that, hey,maybe the training is not the most important thing we have to offer our people. And again, I'm not discounting the value of training. I just thinksome people overrely on that or they overrely on accountability right at abundant. Webelieve that's important. We teach people how to do that. We train thepeople that come through our programs right we we like to hold them accountable,but it's the those aren't the essential ingredients that really bring out the best insomebody. And so, you know, training and accountability and management. Ithink that's like really the content of a culture, and that's important. Butwhat I think people are seeing more and more, especially through the lens ofthe pandemic, is hey, connection and community is actually more important than thecontent. And so there's an opportunity right now for a lot of organizations toreally hear that from this time and to let this be a pivotal time forthem and really doubling down and committing it to being a culture of the futureand a culture that the leaders of the future are going to want to bea part of and trust that in doing so, that's going to lead totheir highest possibility of their vision being expressed, and many great things will happen alongthe way. You'll hit great sales numbers, you'll develop a great leadersyou'll have of new people poke their head up and perform at at levels thathave never been experienced before. Those are all products of asking those questions.Yeah, I've heard you say many times how important it is to create theseconditions, to create this environment where people feel safe. Yeah, people peelconnected and part of something. I've also heard you say how important it isto yes, we need to focus on the people, the sellers, theindividual contributors, but also how important it is that the leadership needs to comefirst, right, the leaders need to take that very first step, andso kind of walk through that. You know, it's a slight nuance orparadox of yes, we need to keep our people good, but how doyou need to focus on leadership first or yes, it's really tied to psychologicalsafety and I think it's a great question. And what I've seen over the yearsis that there are times where organizations have hired us to support them,to help their team have a more empowered culture, help their team get inspired, get connected to vision. Together we do strategic planning right, connecting arounda core set of values right, all these different aspects that can bring moremeaning into the organization, bring more connection truly to the team or the organization, and also influence and also teach sales and specific leadership conversations, all ofthat. But they're are certain organizations that have said, Hey, come fixour people, we've got this challenge, got this problem. Can you comein and can you work with our team? Great, awesome, thank you somuch, like I'll talk to you afterwards. And those organizations do notexperience the same level of engagement from their teams, from their cultures, andtherefore also don't experience as much of a result in the form of actual transformationin their team as the organizations where we talked to a leader and they saywow, yeah, this is really important and they realize that it's important forthem first, and so the work that they they are asking their team todo or to go through, they go through themselves and they're actually they're nottaking up the space in that of like meaning to Boone who's talks all thetime or is highlighted or spotlighted there are part of the experience with the team, and not that a culture needs to be flat in that way, butwhen growth is an experience that happens where everybody has an equal voice in thatsort of an experience, it creates so...

...much trust and it bonds everyone together, and especially when a leader leads with vulnerability like you know what. That'sa that's a hard question answer and I'm going to go first with answering it. I'm not going to hide my answer from my people. I think alot of leaders have this expectation of like, I need to have all my shitfigured out. I can't let my people know that I have challenges orflaws or there's things I need to work on. I need to have allthe answers, I need to have it figured out and I didn't make sureeverybody sees me that way when reality, we know that we don't have itall figured out, we don't have all the answers and there's always going tobe new challenges that arise for us as leaders. But when we actually revealthat to our people, it builds trust. It makes us seem like a realperson, and also it creates the safety for the rest of the teamto be open and honest as well, because when a team doesn't feel safeto be open or to be honest about their challenges or their struggles, therewithholding a part of themselves, they're not bringing their full selves to the table. And all of us who are in leadership have, like had that experiencebefore where things look good in our you know crm, and it looks likewe're going to hit our target for end of the court and all of asudden the numbers change last minute's like what happened there? Well, your peopledidn't feel safe to reveal the struggles they were having, the challenges they werehaving, and they wanted to save face, just and that's probably a mirror toyou as a leader, of you wanted to save face and know thatyou show up with your culture and then looking to you mirroring and modeling that, and then you know they're practicing that too in the way that they reporttheir numbers and their activity. So what ends up happening is, yeah,we might need to have some more difficult conversations, there might be some challengesthat get brought to the surface, but those challenges are there underneath if they'renot on the surface. But if they're underneath, we can't address them,we can't connect them, we can't move through them and it ends up creatingthis this experience of disengagement. So a culture is not defined by the leader, right. A culture is really defined by all of the individuals who arepart of it, but a leader is most influential upon a culture and thework that they're doing with themselves totally. It's like the the leader. Istill remember, and I say this I'm a previous podcast, I still rememberat the very giving the pandemic, when our CEO, Manny Medina, goton one of our all hands and I remember he shared with every's I hateto Seby knows I'm struggling, yeah, or like I'm like mentally, I'mreally having to kind of dry a little bit, and when he said that, I just remember I felt like it's okay not to be okay, it'sokay to tell each other. And it was there such a great example,you know, to what you're speaking to you right there, of leaders gofirst when that vulnerability specifically, and vulnerability goes both ways, because it's alsothe vulnerability of like my desires, my vision, the things that are mostimportant to me. And you know, if we really had to boil itdown, it comes down to, you know, a lot of this comesdown to, is is a culture operating just from their mind. These goalssound great, they look great, their symbols of achievement. Let's map itout. What's the strategy? What's the activity? What's the marketing plan?Great like, what are all the channels? But figuring out all the all themental strategy that has to go along with it. But you know what, that result and that future that's created is going to happen through sales andit's going to happen through leadership. It's going to happen through conversations with teamteams, team members, and then conversations between those team members and prospects andthe marketplace. Sales is conversations, sales as relationships, leadership as conversations,leadership as relationships. And are those relationships in conversations happening on a foundation oftrue connection or just the idea of it,...

...just the idea of it? Andthat true connection happens not in the mind, not in the brain,but in our hearts happens in our hearts. One of the things I've good.Yeah, just gonna say so. It's like are you are? IsA culture heart center? Is it connected to its heart? And then again, we can track that back to like, all right, is is a leaderor are the leaders doing the work they need to do to cultivate moreconnection to their heart? Listen to their heart and allow that to flow intheir conversations, in their connections. And sometimes that means not having the answers. Sometimes that means not getting as much done. There's more space for connection, there's more pause, but it's it might we not get as much done, but we might get a lot more downe in the levels that aren't onlyseen on a in a cm or on a report, quarterly report. Youknow, it's like culture. The health of a culture is not typically measuredright in a quarterly report for most organizations. What's the trust quotient that across ourteams right right? What's what percentage of our culture is connected to theirvision right now individually and it's connected to our vision as an organization? SCALEBone to ten. How much psychological safety is there? But these are theconditions that allow people to show up at their best and then therefore create theresults that show up on on a report. I've heard you say many times thatyou know a leader has the opportunity, may, to be mirrored with theirinternal, so to speak, relationship with their self. Right, ifthey're not coming from their own true essence, their alignment, they're like, Ifeel good with me being me, versus a certain sense of anxiety orcertain sense of insecurity or pushing it a little bit, all sudden all thepeople around them start to act that same type of way. MMM. SoI think it is so valuable what you're speaking to of it starts out withyourself and the leaders first developing themselves, and that one actually saturate everybody elseas well. Yeah, so at abundant we talked about becoming an abundant leaderin your leadership and the way you manage your team or you lead your organization, if you're an executive, and an abundant leader is somebody who leaves situationsand people better than they find them. So that is someone who's in thebutt. You're practicing abundant leadership if you're showing up at that Lens of howcan I leave this situation or this person better than I found them. Now. The paradox, and that is to be abundant, which at its root, it means to overflow. The root of the word abundant means to overflow. Well, to overflow, we have to be full. We have tobe full ourselves, as everything I was speaking to earlier about, like thedemands on our team, the demands on our people that are greater than everbefore, same thing as true for us as leaders and for anybody listening,like the demands are greater on you than ever before. There's there's more inputsthat you're getting then never before. Then our bodies are probably designed to receive. And so how do you support yourself? How do you support yourself? Youtake space for just you. Are you taking time to connect with peers? Are you taking time to have that space for reflection on what are mystrengths as a leader? Where am I missing the mark? Where might Ibe out of integrity in little ways that matter in the long run? Whereyou creating a space for you to get clear on your authentic vision? Becausethese are the things that allow us to be full and then overflow to thepeople around us. And leaders oftentimes have more responsibility and more demand than theirteam, at least an expectation, and...

...so it's even more important that theydo the work. And one of the things that we talked about and teachesthat the greater your ambition for your vision or the results you want to createor your achievements, the greater the support you need to be willing to giveyourself and receive, and the two have to match each other. Your supporthas to match your ambition and I see a lot of leaders who have alot more ambition than they do a willingness to receive support. I think it'sa simple shift that leaders can make. So one of the things I knowthat you know you do at abundance as you throw these incredible you call themimmersions. Yeah, it transformational events. You are also a live DJ aswell. You leave people to these incredible experiences, not just through the contentthat you speak, but also through breath to work and through meditations and throughvision exercises and really opening up with a sense of vulnerability, of like whoreally am I. So I guess you know. Will let you just,you know, quickly touch on what are these events that you guys throw?What's it like taking people through that like, what's that experience like? I meanthat's that question of like, what is the environment that's going to bringout the best in people? Those are the experiences that we love to create, and so we love to whether that's virtually, which is something that weare very passionate about and some people are. We're passionate about creating experiences that bringout the best, both virtually and in person. As my point.But you know, an immersion is is an opera as an experience that wecreate. We call it immersion because we ask people to be fully immersed intheir presence, in their focus. We did an event that you are actuallya part of. This was in person. We've been doing covid safe outdoor eventsthis year, so outdoor gathering only, but we there was we were offthe grid, no phones, no Internet, right. That's kind ofimmersion expressed at the highest level. But there was there was no contact sothat you could be fully present, fully immersed on these more important questions foryourself. And where else? What was your question specifically, because there's alot of different directions I could go with this. I think it's more ofjust, you know, what's the experience like being at the Emmerson right andgoing to the many differents modalities with what you take people through. Yeah,you know, one of the ways that we look at it is like howwe look at leaders as similar to athletes. So how can we help a leaderTAPP into their highest performance, their highest possibility, similar to how anathlete might look at the same thing for themselves. And I guess it's thatsame question. What are the different ingredients that are going to allow someone tobe at their best? And so there's helping leaders optimize their energy and there'san aspect of that that has to do with well, what are the thingsthat you're thinking about? What's your identity? What's your mindset? Are you thinkingabout things that give you energy or take energy away from you? Areyou interacting with people who give you energy or take energy away from you?Are you interacting with your team in a way that's giving you energy or takingenergy away from you? And of course there's the physiological level. So breathworkis an amazing tool to oxygenate your system but also to get you present andget your body activated. And there's everything else that goes into it. There'sthere's diet, there's health, but there's that's a high performance ingredient as energy. And again, the same things that I've been speaking to in terms ofa culture around safety also are true for an individual. So how do weuncover, like the ways that a leader might be selfcritical or hard on themselves? And I find a lot of higher performers are pretty freaking hard on themselves. I have been harder on myself than most and some of the greatest I'vead advice I've gotten at times is just hey, chill the fuck out,like, relax, be kind to yourself. What you need to appreciate about yourselfright now, because there's such high expect patients that I have for meand what I'm supposed to be doing,...

...and I see that in a lotof leaders to. So, you know, how do we create the experience forleaders to actually question those expectations and really trust themselves deeper have some compassionfor themselves? That's an important ingredient for them being able to show up andcreate connection most effectively and creating the space for leaders to really get connected toall right, yeah, you've got these goals, you've got these achievements thatyou've that you've had in the past and based on that. There's the achievementsthat you see for your future, the promotions that you think you're supposed toget. But like, what do you really want? What's what's most importantto you? What's your vision really? Yes, for your mission, yes, for the ways that you contribute in the marketplace, but like also foryour family and also for yourself, for the experience that you're having as ahuman on this planet, in this life. All right, and then who areyou going to need to become to realize all of that, to createthat? What are you going to need to learn? Where you need togrow? What characteristics, qualities or values are you going need to need topractice, need to cultivate? And then helping leaders step into that step,into the version of themselves that's going to realize the vision of what they reallywant, which is where our highest possibility exists and it's also where our highestresults come from, because anybody who knows sales knows that when a salesperson's onfire, there's something about that like they're just on fire when they're creating thehighest possible results. There's something that's just like unstoppable about them, and that'sreally the conversation that we love to have and the experiences we love to create, where we like those fires powerfully and people become unstoppable and moving towards thedivision. Well, Hey man, I got one more question for you,but before I do, I just want to acknowledge you and just honor youfor being here, for being your unique and honest and authentic self, evenhaving the Cacao all over your face, here for this. And you don'tjust, you know, speak a good mission, you live it. Youknow, you first embody it yourself, just like your messages, and you'veimpacted tons of people. You've intpacted me, you've impacted you know, the kindof the geometric impact from you and patting others and them impacting others aswell, and so really just on your path and I know you know whatyou're doing. You've been doing it Ph nomenal for seven years. But thisis just the beginning of the beginning and there's a long, exciting road thatyou are going to be embarking upon. A wise man once said that it'sjust a beginning. Is the beginning, the beginning of the beginning. Solast question for you is this. If you had to embark one piece ofwisdom set a lot here. You said it. A lot of wisdom here. One piece of wisdom, one maybe simple, short issh phrase. Whatwould that WIS so be? Yeah, I would just say that, likenow, really matters. Now, really matters now, matters now more thanever, and that's always true, but it's more true now than ever.And I'm speaking really to culture and the way we show up as leaders areour world is changing and it's being shaped, it's being defined right now. Ibelieve in a lot of people, meant, much smarter than me,believe that humanity is really defining itself and you know, I just think culturesa huge part of the future of humanity. Culture is a huge part of what'sgetting defined right now. What do we value? How do we showup with each other? Do we come from our heads or our hearts?How much connection is there? And you know, a lot of people listeningand a lot of people that I work with our are and that we workwith that abundant are in technology. And...

...your technology does matter, your productdoes matter, but what if your culture mattered more? What if that wasthe greatest impact that you can make was through the way that you create culture, not just a product or a service or a technology, and I thinkthe world really needs people to take that mantle of response disability on and havethat become a part of many people's mission, and I think that shapes the futuremore than any technology, though there are many technologies that are going toshape the future too. So I think that's just something that might be usefulto a few people who are listening. I love that, man, nowmatters awesome that. Well, Hey, if people are picking out what you'reputting down, people want to learn more. How did they get in contact withyou? How do they get in contact with abundant? Yeah, sowe've got a couple different opportunities right now and I would say there's people thatprobably fall into one of two categories. There might be someone listening who's curiousfor how we might be able to support an organization or a team, asa lot of organizations and teams are really taking this as a time to findtheir future together. If that's the case, you can reach out to US individuallyand we love to hop on a conversation to see, hey, isthere a way that abundant can support your organization, your team, your culture? You can just reach out to been at abundant leadercom. been at abundantleadercom and also, some of you who are listening might realize, you knowwhat, I haven't had a whole lot of connection in this pandemic. Therehas been a swirl. Maybe you've managed it well, maybe you've managed average, maybe you're feeling kind of shitty about way things are right now. Couldfall in any category, but either way there's a lot of leaders right nowthat are craving connection. You craving opportunities to disconnect from their responsibility and fromall that's on your plate, to connect to yourself and your vision at ahigher level and really the version of you as a leader that that's going tocall for. And so we have emerging experiences that we create for that andthere's a virtual option and in person option for those, and for that too, you can just reach out to me. It might be somebody from my teamwho reaches out. In our teams amazing. I am so grateful forour team. I feel honored to work with everybody at abundant that I do. But we would, we're happy to get in touch. If you reachout, you can also, and that's the easiest way, to shoot mean email been at abundant leadercom, so I'll just say they're say that awesome. been. You're wise, my friend. Appreciate you joining us and for allthe listeners. As always, we appreciate you, guys, Jodan,and we look forward the next one. This was another episode of the salesengagement podcast. To help this get in front of more eyes and ears,please leave us a shining five star review. Join US at sales engagementcom for newepisodes. Resources in the book on sales engagement to get the most outof your sales engagement strategy. Make sure to check out outreach. That ioh, the leading sales engagement platform. See you on the next episode.

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