The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 7 months ago

Culture: Creating Conditions for People to Thrive w/ Ben Schemper

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Sales is conversations. Sales is relationships.

Leadership is conversations. Leadership is relationships.

How do you ensure that these relationships and conversations are happening on a foundation of true connection?

In this episode, I interview Ben Schemper, CEO at Abundant, about human connection, culture, and leadership.

What we talked about:

  • Leaders have influence to affect culture profoundly
  • Engaging not just the mind but also the heart
  • The importance of psychological safety
  • The traits of an abundant leader

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

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Hey folks is ender me born now beforejumping in I've got to tell you ahout in least two thousand and twenty one onMay. Eleven thrugthirteen were focusing on hadoing together in the new salesera, you'll learn NEU, go to marces strategies, get deeper, funal, insidesand aximal, take wast foryour entire, or from revenue leaders at Hig, Gros,startups and fortune five hundred companies and are very special guestsor none other than Guyras. The podcasterd author of how I built thisand carry laurence. The first female fiter pilot in the US bavy come saverseat for this high energy on line event at only stot out, reache STOT IO. Now,let's get into it. Welcome to the sales engageem a podcast.This podcast is brought you by outreach, the leading sales engagement platformand they just launched out reach on oureach the place to learn how outreachwell does out reach, learn how the team follows up with every lead in recordtime after virtual events and turns them into revenue. You can also see howoutrecwins account based plays, manages reps and so much more using their ownsales engagement platform. Everything is backed by data puld from out reachprocesses and customer base, when you're done you'll be able to do it asgood as they do had to outreachd out io on out reach to see what they ave goingon. Now, let's get into today's episode all right. Everybody welcome back tothe sales engageent podcast. If this is your first time to podcast, welcome tothe show you're joined here by Alex Femmer, I am one of your host and I amjoined by actually a very special guest, a very close friend of mine, Mr BanScappers, a Ben Hey, first off bokne Chomran, thanks for having the Alexit's a pleasure to be here and anybody who's their first time. You chose theright episode to be your first time to listen. Let me doing today, that's WHA,I'm saying well Ben. I first want to just thank you for being here and honoryou, I've known you for what is it five t six years, something along thoselines along those lines you have been a close friend of mine, you've been aclose mentor of mine. I'v e done a lot of work with you and with YourOrganization and excited Fr you to be here and just talk a little bit aboutforst off who you are because I think you're, a very special, unique leader,an individual and talk a little bit about what you're doing in this worldand what you're doing to impact so many different types of sales, professionalsombady, picof leaders, so many different nights of companies andorganizations as well. In addition to people like myself. So first I've beenit. If you want to kind of kick us off with O K, Ow who you are what you careabout yeah. Well, who am I? What do I care about? someboy watching videonotice? I have something on my face right now. I actually was a part of a virtual cacal ceremonyearlier today and contemplated. Should I keep this on myface because at the end, you kind of spread some Koca on your face and Isaid Hell Yeah, I'm going to keep it on my face for the PODCAST, because Ithink it actually speaks to part of who I who I am and what we do at abundant.And who am I I I am somebody who is very passionate about transformationand creating experiences for leaders to experience transformation themselvesand I'm really passionate about leadership. I'm really passionate aboutdeveloping leaders, helping others develop leaders, I'm passionate aboutculture, the environment that really potentiates results, potentiatesbusiness and that's something that I've always been. Whether I had thislanguage for that or not passionate about I've studied it a lot.I've practiced it a lot, but I've had the blessing and the benefits of beingable to support thousands of leaders in developing leaders themselves,developing culture themselves and really learning from them in theprocess and seeing who's, doing an amazing job, who's struggling andreally seeing the different ingredients they contribute to an organization or ateam or an individual, thriving or...

...getting stuck on the journey. I'mpassionate about leadership and I'm passionate about leaders reallycreating cultures that allow people to grow and transform. You know so, thenyou are CEO of an organization called bundgance abundant is an unbelievablyimpactful organization that it's not just helping individual sales wraps.Your helpbing leaders, like you, said you're helping develop the culture aswell. I guess you know, give us a little bit of background in terms offirst off what is Bunnin and what was really your journey to starting thisorganization. That has impacted so many now at this point, yeah I'll dive inand Alex feel free to kind of guide me if you want me to speak to anythingspecifically but yeah. We ad abundant. We work with both individual leaders,who could be a high performer high performing individual contributor, allthe way up to an executive right. So we work with individual leaders. We alsowork with organizations and cultures and in some ways, it's kind ofimportant to say that you can't separate the two, because leaders mustdo the work first for culture to change, or they must do the work with theirculture for Culture to change, so those two are kind of inseparable, but who wetypically work with Aur individuals and organizations that are experiencing acertain level of success where they've theyre experiencing achievement right.It's like they know how to sell they've hit big numbers, they feel proficientat what they do. And that being said, there's there'ssomething: that's missing. It's like the work doesn't feel quite meaningful.It feels a little bit vanilla and that's a really int interesting placeto be as a high performer or as a high performing culture and I'll say to anyleaders out there. Whenever that's the case, that's an orange flag wheneverythings are feeling a little bit of vanilla, that's an orange flag that canquickly turn into a red flag, because the results might be there. The moneymight be there. The achievement might be there. The performance might bethere, but if things are feeling vanilla and nothing changes, thenthat's going to accelerate into a situation that becomes a big cultureproblem and we like to help people with that before it becomes a problem. Andso those are the sorts people we end up working with and it's helping themreally discover what's authentic to them in terms of who they want to be asa leader or what the culture wants to be together and in that, what we findis higher levels of performance actually reveal themselves, and so whatwe've seen over the last seven years and working with thousands of leadersand hundreds of teams and organizations, is that there's a kind of a threshold which you cannot cross just focusing onachievement and like let's sell as much as we can, let's be the best in ourskill, set, let's work as hard as possible. Those ingredients are arecritical to high performance, but they can actually only get you so far, andthe very peak of performance right what's possible in terms of what can becreated both by an individual or an organization, requires the fullestexpression of an individual or the fullest expression of a culture. Itrequires people to not just be operating from their heads, but beleading from their hearts. Thit requires people not just to beexperiencing great results, but experiencing meaning and connection andlong along the way, and so when organizations and individuals reallymake an investment into making that a priority for themselves, whether it'sthe investment of time, energy or money attends to unlock another level of ofperformance and possibility for them, and it's not always a straight line,because sometimes the culture has to go through a shift or a transition or anindividual has to go through a transition to experience that, butultimately again, there's a threshold that cannot be crossed without doingthat deeper, more inward, more meaningful work around outenticity. Lo,what you say right there just around...

...you know tappin into authenticity, andI think a lot of the work that you do in correct. If I'm wrong here is as atop of forme rap or a top performing leader, it's really great to blow outquota right. It's really great to get that huge check in your back account orto get the new car or to get that feeling of significance from that titleas well, and then all of a sudden there's a certain feeling of feel like I'm missing something soiwould love for you to kind of talk about. What's the typical journey of someonewho maybe they're at the top of their game,maybe they're super comfortable and they're, starting to say like what.What else is out there es something I'm missing here and howyou support: temply, Tou, yeah and I'm Moigh. Take a little lifin interestingtake here, because you mentioned that question like what else is out thereand to be honest, a lot of individua a lot of a lot of people. Ask thatquestion- and you know I think, there's an opportunity for leaders to ask thatquestion of like what else is out there that we can be bringing in to ourculture. What else is out there that we can be creating for our people beyondjust an opportunity to make a lot of money, because I think a lot of peoplehave seen that that's like it ain't the s anymore. That's not what's mostimportant to people. Is it important absolutely and if you have anopportunity that can pay people a lot, you're, definitely going to attractmore attention and it's going to be an easier conversation to grill. Yourorganization Engrow, your team, but we live in a really interesting time inhuman history. It's one of the most complex, if not B, most complex time inhuman history and there's a lot of demands on an individual which is thenexperienced by a collective of individuals or a culture. The demand ofall the different information that we're inudated with with social mediaand how hyperconnected our world is the demands psychologically of navigatingthe pandemic. And how do I get my needs of connection met and also the demandsof that of like really questioning your path or your journey, which I see a lotof leaders and a lot of organizations that value leadership, doing reallytaking this this last year as a sign as an opportunity to pause to actuallyslow down a bit before the next leg of the journey and ask? Why are we reallydoing this? where, where do we really want to get to beyond you know, IPObeyond XYZ results and numbers? What's like why? The F? Are we really doingthis and in in today's world you know, there's what it means to be a human issomething different than it ever has meant before in human history thananybody. Listening to this, it's, like you, probably remember getting Internetand your home for the first time, you probably remember you or your parents,getting your first cell phone and like this is a fundamental you're. Listeningto this, probably on on your phone or in your car, you might be watching this.This is being recorded on, like my computer. None of that stuff existedwhen I was a kid or when Alex when you were a kid and it's now such a centralpart of of who we are and what what life is like, and it's also centralpart of sales and leadership and organizing with the culture. So there'sa lot to navigate that there's been a tremendous amount of change, and one ofthe biggest changes is how much input we all have on a daily basis. So is itjust recognizing, like humans have a lot more demand on them? Your salespeople have a lot more demand on them than they ever have, and that goesbeyond quota. That goes beyond the demands of their position, and so youknow, I see a lot of organizations really listening to that and answeringthe call of all right like what else is out there for us to create yeon, just afinancial opportunity for our people, because the world is calling right nowin the marketplaceis calling right now and leaders are calling right now fororganizations that are really creating opportunities, not just financially butopportunities for connection...

...opportunities for meaning opportunitiesto be a part of something that really matters and gives a deep sense ofpurpose. You know, I think, through the pandemic,it was very much a little bit of Punchin the Jos o the speak cour slopin the face of Oh man. What's direction, are we going? I mean we are so stuck inour ways. We are so bout just growing revenue for so many different types ofcompanies and organizations and all of a sudden there was this big stop andeverybody had to really start to say what is important to us right now andwhy are we doing what we do and there's been such an increase focus across thebusiness world on social causes, on mental health, on making sure that wetake care of the employees and the people first, and no one in trustingthat that's going to lead you postive customer and client experiences and Ithink, a lot of organizations ing to say: Okay, we know that's important. Weknow that we need to be focusing on that. TATMES come first. I think a lotof organization is the people you myself are saying Starteng to say, okay,but how? How do I do that? How do I make my people feel, like you, ereinsane part of something bigger than themselves part of a sense of a purposein this changing landscape in this changing environment? So how do youactually go about supporting people through that to makepeople feel hey? There's a purpose in Davision that we have yeah Wel we'vegot a three day workshop that helps people with that now, 'm, just gi, wedo aveoutely, know t a the the reality is, there's aquestion there that I think leaders have to be committed to asking andasking themselves again and again and looking for even better and betteranswers, and it's this question of it's not just. How do we like honor therealities of mental health- and you know, I'm speaking to it as like thedemands on people psychologically or. However, you want dofine them, and the question that is important forleaders to ask is: What are the conditions in which my people willthrive? Hmm, what are the conditions in which mypeople will thrive and that's the question that I believe as leaders, we need to askand there's a lot of intelligence to that 's like what's the culture, what'sthe environment, that we could create, that's going to bring out the best inour people, it's going to make them feel the most alive. It's going to givethem the most energy, that's going to give them most connection and sense ofpurpose, and then just trust like all right. Well, those are the ingredientsthat we were to write it out on a piece of paper we would say like would leadto the best version of someone showing up, and maybe those ingredients aredifferent for you or for your organization right, which is why yougot to ask it yourself, but it's like all right yeah, if someone's reallyenergized, if someone is feeling really connected to their peers, if they'rereally connected to their purpose, right they're engaged into their workbeyond the result, but they really feel how it's a contribution towards abigger mission or towards the impact that they want to make in their life insome way, if they feel accepted for who they are, they feel psychologicallysafe, right, the most important Ngredient, as has been found by Googleand by you, know many business schools to a high performing culture. So ifthese things exist, someone's going to be at their best right, also having aclear vision, that's inspiring to them right. So if they have, these, thingsare going to be at their best. So let's just create the environment where theyhave these things, because ement thei best they're, probably going to sellmore they're, probably going to get creative and how they navigatechallenges, they're going to be more resource Chol in how they answer,questions they're going to want to be more they're Goinna want to contributemore to their peers to their the other individuals of their team. They'reGOINNA want to get more involved into the organization and really taking onits mission as their own, like all these things are going to happen as aproduct of creating an environment where the best is really brought out ofan individual and a team. So I think...

...that's the question that leaders haveto ask and when we ask that question we start to see culture, we start to seeleadership or management in a different way. We start to see that hey, maybethe the training is not the most important thing. We have to offer apeople and again I'm not discounting the value of training. I just thinksome people overrely on that or they overrely on accountability right atAPUNDANT. We believe that's important. We teach people how to do that. Wetrain the people that come through our programs right, we like to hold themaccountable, but it's the those aren't the essential igredients that reallybring of the best in somebody, and so you know, training and accountabilityand management. I think that's like really the content of a culture andthat's important, but what I think people are seeing more and moreespecially through the lens of the pandemic, is hey connection and community isactually more important than the content, and so there's an opportunityright now for a lot of organizations to really hear that from this time and to let this be a pivotal time for them.Ind really doubling down and committing to being a culture of the future ind aculture that the leaders of the future are going to want to be a part of, andtrust that in doing so, that's going to lead to their highest possibility oftheir vision being expressed, and many great things will happen along the way.You'll hit great sales numbers, you'll develop great leaders, you'll have newpeople poke their headup and perform at levels that have never been experiencedbefore those are all products of asking those questions. Yeah I've heard you say many times howimportant it is to create these conditions to create this environment,where people feel safe, yeah people peel connected and part of something.I've also heard you say how important it is to. Yes, we need to focus on thepeople, the salaries, the individual contuters, but also how important it isthat the leadershav need to come. First Right, the laters need to take thatvery first step and sokind of walk through that. You know it's a slightnuance or caradox of yes, we need to keep our people good, but how do youneed a folks on leadership? First or yes, it's really tied o psychologicalsafety, and I think it's a great question and what I've seen over theyear is that there are times where organizations have hired us to supportthem to help their team. Have a more empowered culture help their team getinspired, get connected to vision together, we do strategic planningright connecting around a course set of values right all these differentaspects that can bring more meaning into the organization, bring moreconnection truly to the team or the organization and also influence andalso teach sales and specific leadership conversations. All of that.But there are certain organizations that have said: Hey come fix. Ourpeople we've got this challenge got this problem. Can you come in and canyou work with our team? Great Awesome? Thank you. So much like I'll talk to you afterwards and those organizations do not experiencethe same level of engagement from their teams from their cultures and therefore also don't experience asmuch of a result in the form of actual transformation in their team. As theorganizations where we talk to a leader and they say wow yeah, this is reallyimportant and they realize that it's important for them first, and so thework wat the big that they are asking their team to do or to go through. Theygo through themselves and they're, actually they're nottaking up the space in that of like needing a boid oneos talks, all thetime or is highlighted or spotlighted they're part of the experience with theteam and not that a culture needs to be flat en that way. But when growth is anexperience that happens where everybody...

...has an equal voice in that sort ofanexperience, it creates so much trust and it bonds everyone together andespecially when a leader leads with vulnerability like you know what that'sa at's, a hard question to answer and I'm going to go first OT answering it,I'm not going to hide my answer from my people. I think a lot of leaders havethis expectation of like I need to have all my shit figured out. I can't let mypeople know that I have challenges or flaws or ther's things I need to workon. I need to have all the answers I need to have it figured out and in didt make sure everybody sees me that way when reality, we know that we don'thave it all figured out. We don't have all the answers and there's alwaysgoing to be new challenges that arerise for us as leaders, but when we actuallyreveal that to our people. It builds trust that makes us seem like a realperson and also it creates the safety for the rest of the team to be open andhonest as well, because when a team doesn't feel safe to be open or to behonest about their challenges or their struggles, theyre withholding a part ofthemselves, they're, not bringing their full cells to the table, and all of uswho are in leadership have like had that experience before, where thingslook good in our you know, crm, and it looks like we'regoing to hit our target put in of the Carter and all of a sudden, the numberschange last minute like what happened there. Well, your people didn't feelsafe to reveal l the struggles they were, having the challenges they werehaving and they wanted to save face. Just and that's probably a mirror toyou, as a leader of you, wanted to Sav, face an know that you show up with yourculture and then looking to you mirroring and modeling that, and thenyou know, they're practicing that too, in the way that they report theirnumbers and their activity. So what ends up happening is yeah. We mightneed to have some more difficult conversations. There might be somechallenges that get brought to the surface, but those challenges are thereunderneath, if they're not on the surface, but if they're UNDERNEEDH, wecan't address them, we can't connect them. We can't move through them and itends up creating this. This experience of disengagement, so a culture is notdefined by the leader. Ria Culture is really defined by all of theindividuals who are part of it, but a leader is most influential upon aculture and the work that they're doing mit themselves. Totally. It's like the the leader. Istill remember- and I said S on out a previous podcast. I stirl remember atthe Bery beginning O of candemic, when our CEO, Manny Madigini got on one ofour all hands, and I remember he share w ere was like heyjust soerey knows I'm struggling yeah or like I'm like mentally, I'm reallyHav to kind of Grad a little bit when he said that I just remember. Ifelt t' like it's: Okay, not to be okay, it's okayto tell each other, and it was te such a great example. You know to whatyou're speaking to right. There of leaders go first with thatfulnerability specifically and vunarbility goes both ways, becauseit's also the vulnerability of, like my desires, my vision, the things that aremost important to me and you know if we really had to boil it down it comesdown to you know. A lot of this t comes down to is a culture operating justfrom their mind. These goals sound great. They look great they're symbolsof achievement. Let's map it out. What's the strategy, what's theactivity? What's the marketing plan great, like what are all the channels,but figuring all the all the mental strategy that has to go along with it?But you know what that result: Ind that future that's created is going tohappen through sales whenit's going to happen through leadership. It's goingto happen through conversations with team teams, team members and thenconversations between those team members and prospects and themarketplace. Sales is conversations sales asrelationships. Leadership is conversations, leadership, hisrelationships and arlose relationships and conversationshappening on a foundation of true...

...connection or just the idea of it. Justthe idea of it and that true connection happens not in the mind not in thebrain, but in our hearts happens in our hearts. One of the things T at go ahead.Yeah, I just gound say so: It's like Aryou R is a culture heart center. Isit connected to its heart and then again we can track that backto like all right is, is a leader or are the leaders doing the work theyneed to do to cultivate more connection to their heart, listen to their heartand allow that to flow in their conversations in their connections, andsometimes that means not having the answers. Sometimes that means notgetting as much done. There's more space for connectionthere's more pause, but it's it. Might we not get as much done, but we mightget a lot more downe on the levels that aren't always seen N in a crm or on areport quarterly report. You know it's like culture. The health of a cultureis not typically measured right in a quarterly report for most organizations.What's the trust quotion a across our teams right right? What's whatpercentage of our culture is connected to their vision right now, individuallyand its connected to our vision as an organization scale of one to ten? Howmuch psychological safety is there? But these are the conditions that allowpeople to show at their best and then therefore create the results that showup on UNONA report. I've heard you say many times that youknow a leader has the opportunity to be mirrored with their internal, so tospeak, relationship with theirself right if they're not coming from their own true eccents. Their alignmentthey're, like I feel good with me being me versus a certain sense of anxiety orcertain sense of insecurity or pushing it a little bit all sudden. All thepeople around them start toact that same type of way HM. So I think it is so valuable n whatyou're speaking to of it starts out with yourself the leaders firstdeveloping themselves and that woun actually saturate everybody else aswell yeah. So at abundant. We talk about becoming an abundant leader inyour leadership and the way you manage your team and you lead yourorganization. You're an executive and an abundant leader is somebody wholeaves situations and people better than they find them. So that is someonewho's in avout you're, practicing abundant leadership, if you're, showingup with that lends of how can I leave this situation or this person betterthan I found them now? The paradox in that is to be abundant, which, at its rout,that means to overflow the root of the word abundant means to overflow, welltoverflow. We have to be full. We have to be full ourselves has everything Iwas speaking to earlier about, like the demands on our team. The demands on ourpeople that are greater than ever before same thing is true for us, asleaders for anybody. Listening like the demands are greater on you than everbefore. There's there's more inputs that you're getting than ever before,then our bodies are probably designed to receive, and so how do you support yourself? How do you support yourself? You takespace for just you. Are you taking time to connect with PEERCS? Are you takingtime to have that space for reflection on what are my strengths is a leader.Where am I missing the mark? Where might I be out of integrity in littleways that matter in the long run where you creating the space for you to getclear and your authentic vision, because these are the things that allowus to be full and then overflow to the people around us and leaders, oftentimes have moreresponsibility and more demand than their team, at least an expectation,and so it's even more important that...

...they do the work and one of the thingsthat we talk about and teach. Is that the greater your ambition for yourvision or the results you want to create wor your achievements, thegreater the support you need to be willing to give yourself and receiveand the two have to match each other. Your support has to match your ambition,and I see a lot of leaders who have a lot more ambition than they do awillingness to receive support. I think it's a simple shift that leaders canmake so one of the things. I know that you know you do ad abundant as youthrow these incredible, you call them emergeons, yeah, transformational,events. You are also a live DJ as well. You leav people to these incredibleexperiences, not just thrue the content that you speak, but also through breath,to work and through meditations and through vision, exerciss and reallyopening up with a sense of vo mobility of like who really am I. So I guess youknow Wall Leveryo, just you know quickly touch on what are these eventsthat you guys throw? What's it like taking people through that, like whatyea xperience like I mean it's that question of like what is theenvironment? That's going to bring out the best in people? Those are theexperiences that we love to create, and so we love to whether that's virtually,which is something that we are very passionate about, and some people arewe're. Passionate about creading experiences, T ot bring out the bestbooth. Virtually and in person is my point, but you know an immersion is anopper as an experience that we create. We call it immersion because we askpeople to be fully immersed in their presence in their focus. We did anevent that you ere. Actually, a part of this was in person, we've been doingcovid safe outdoor events this year, so outdoor gathering only but we there was.We were off the grid, no phones, no Internet right, that's kind ofimmersion expressed at the highest level, but there was there as nocontact so that you could fully present fully immersed on these more importantquestions for yourself and where else, what was your question specificallybecause there's a lot of different directions? I could go with this. Ithink it's more of just you know. What's the experience like being at theImerson right and going to the many difference modalities with what youtake people through yeah, you know one of the ways that we look at. It is likehow we look at leaders as similar to athletes. So how can we help a leader tappens totheir highest performance, their highest possibility, similar to how an athlete might look atthe same thing for themselves and again its that same question? What arethe different gredients that are going to allow someone to be at their best,and so there's helping leaders optimize their energy and there's an aspect ofthat that has to do with well, what are the things that you're thinking about?What's your identity? What's your mindset? Are you thinking about thingsthat give you energy or take energy away from you? Are you interacting withpeople who give you energy or take energy away from you? Are youinteracting with your team in a way that's giving you energy or takingenergy it from you and, of course, there's the physiological level? Sobreathwork is an amazing tool to oxygenate your system, but also to getyou present and get your body activated and there's everything else that goesinto it. There's there's diet, there's health, but there's that's a highperformance ingredient is energy and again the same things that I've beenspeaking to in terms of a culture around safety also are true for anindividual. So how do we uncover like the ways that a leader might be selfcritical or hard on themselves, and I find a lot of higher performers? ArePretty freaking heart on themselves? I have been harder on myself than mostand some of the greatest I'veoid advice. I've gotten tat times is just hey chill.The fuck out like relax, be kind to yourself. What you need to appreciateabout yourself right now: bcause Teres...

...such high expectations that I have forme and what I'm supposed to be doing, and I see that in a lot of leaders too.So you know how do we create the experience for leaders to actuallyquestion those expectations and really trust themselves? Deeper, have somecompassion for themselves. That's an important ingredient for them beingable to show up in create connection most effectively and brating the spacefor leaders to really get connected to all right yeah. You got these goals.You've got these achievements that you've that you've had in the past andbased on that there's the achievements that you see for your future. Thepromotions that you think are supposed to get but like what do you really want?What's what's most important to you? What's your vision? Really Yes for yourmission, yes, for the ways that you contribute in the marketplace, but likealso for your family and also for yourself for theexperience that you're having as a human on this planet in this life all right and then who are you going toneed to become to realize all of that to create that? What are you going toneed to learn where you need to grow? What characteristics, qualities orvalues? Are you goineed to need to practice, need to cultivate and then helping leaders step into thatstep into the version of themselves? That's going to realize the vision of what they reallywant, which is where our highest possibility exists, and it's also whereour highest results come from, because anybody who knows sales knows that whena sales person's on fire there's something about that like they're juston fire when they're creating the highest possible results, there',something that's just like unstoppable about them, and that's really theconversation that we love to have and the experiences we love to create wherewe like those fires powerfully and people become unstoppable and movingtowards the rvision. Well, Hey man, I got one more question for you, butbefore I do, I just want to acknowledge you and just honor you for being herefor being your unique and honest and authentic self, even having the cocawall over your face her for this, and you don't just you know, speak a goodmission. You live it. You know you first imbode yourself, just like yourMessageis and you've impacted tons of people. You've interpected me you'veinbacted. You know the kind of the geometric impact from you patchingothers and them inpacting others as well, and so really us Ono your path,and I know you know what you're doing you'v been doing it phenomenal forseven years, but this is just the beginning of the beginning and there'sa long, exciting road that you are going to be embarking apon. A wise manonce said that it's just the beginning at the beginning, the beginning of thebeginning. So last question, for you is this: If you had to embark, one pieceof wisdom said a lot here. You said I a lot of wisdom here. One piece of wisdom-one maybe simple, short, ish phrase. What would that was to be yeah? I would just say that like now,really matters no really matters now matters now morethan ever, and that's always true, but it's more true.Now than ever, and I'm speaking really to culture and the way we show up asleaders are, our world is changing and it's being shaped, it's being definedright now. I believe, and a lot of people ma much smarter than me believethat humanity is really defining itself, and you know, I just say: Cultureis ahuge part of the future of humanity. Culture is a huge part of what'sgetting defined right now. What do we value? How do we show up with eachother? Do we come from our heads or our hearts? How much connection is thereand you know a lot of people listening anda lot of people that I work with are are and thet we were with that abundantare in technology, and your technology...

...does matter your product does matter,but what, if your culture mattered more? What if that was the greatest impactthat you cund make was through the way that you createculture, not just a product or a service or a technology, and I think the world really needspeople to take that mantle of responsibility on and have that becomea part of many people's mission, and I think that shapes the future more thanany technology, though there are many technologies that are going to shapethe future to so, I think that's just something that might be useful. A fewpeople who are listening. I love that man now matters mossome bed. Well, Hey!If people are picking up what you're putting down people want to learn more,how do they get in contact with you? How do they get in contact withabundance yeah? So we've got a couple different opportunities right now and Iwould say: There's people that probably fall into one of two categories. Theremight be someone listening who's curious for how we might be able tosupport an organization or a team as a lot of organizations and teams arereally taking this as a time to to find their future together. If that's thecase, you can, you know, reach out to US individually and I would love to Hapon a conversation to see hey. Is there a way that abundant can support yourorganization, your team, your culture, you can just reach out to Ben atabundant leadercom Ben at abundant leadercom, and also some of you who arelistening might realize you know what I haven't had a whole lot of connectionin this pandemic. There has been a Swirrl, maybe you've managed it. Well,maybe you've managed the average, maybe you're, feeling kind of shitty aboutwhay things are right now could fall in any category but either way, there's alot of leaders right now that are craving connection and cravingopportunities to disconnect from their responsibility and from all that's onyour plate to connect to yourself and your vision at a higher level, andreally the version of you is a leader that that's going to call for, and sowe have emergion experiences that we create for that and there's a virtualoption and an imperson option for those, and for that too, you can just reachout to me. It might be somebody from my team who reaches out n our teams,amazing. I am so grateful for our team. I feel honored to work with everybodyat abundant that I do, but we wouldwere happy to get in touch if YEU reach out.You can also a that's the easiest, so I just shoot me an email, then atabundant leadercom. So I'll just say there say that awesome, Wel, Ban, you're wise, myfriend appreciate Youin US and for all the listeners. As always, we appreciateguys Jornan and we look forward the next one. This was another episode of the SalesEngagement podcast to help this get in front of more eyes and ears. Pleaseleave us a shining five star revew join us at sales engagementcom for newepisodes. Resources in the book on sales engagement to get the most out ofyour sales engagement strategy, make sure to check out out reached Lio. Theleading sales engagement platform see you on the next episode.

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