The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

Culture: Creating Conditions for People to Thrive w/ Ben Schemper


Sales is conversations. Sales is relationships.

Leadership is conversations. Leadership is relationships.

How do you ensure that these relationships and conversations are happening on a foundation of true connection?

In this episode, I interview Ben Schemper, CEO at Abundant, about human connection, culture, and leadership.

What we talked about:

  • Leaders have influence to affect culture profoundly
  • Engaging not just the mind but also the heart
  • The importance of psychological safety
  • The traits of an abundant leader

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

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Hey folks, it's under me born. Now, before jumping in, I've got to tell you about on least two thousand and twenty one. On May eleven through thirteen, were focusing on how to win together in the new sales era. You'll learn new go to market strategies, get deeper funnel insides and actional takeaways for your entire org from revenue leaders, Highgro startups and fortune five hundred companies and are very special guests or none other than Guy Raz the podcaster and author of how I built this and carry lawns, the first female fighter pilot in the US Navy. Come Save Your seat for this high energy online event at only stock outreached out ioh. Now let's get into it. Welcome to the sales engagement of PODCAST. This podcast is brought to you by outreach, the leading sales engagement platform, and they just launched outreach on outreach, the place to learn how outreach. Well does outreach? Learn how the team follows up with every lead in record time after virtual events and turns them into revenue. You can also see how outreach runs account based plays, manages reps and so much more using their own sales engagement platform. Everything is backed by data pulled from outreach processes and customer base. When you're done, you'll be able to do it as good as they do. Head to outreach, that io on outreach, to see what they have going on. Now let's get into today's episode. All right, everybody, welcome back to the sales engagement podcast. If this is your first time to the PODCAST, welcome to the show. You're joined here by Alex Fremer. I am one of your hosts, and I am joined by actually a very special guest, a very close friend of mine, Mr Ben Scamper. So Been Hey. First off, flo on the show man. Thanks for having me, Alex, it's a pleasure to be here, and anybody who's their first time, you chose the right episode to be your first time to listen. Let me go on today. That's wrong. Saying well, Ben, I first want to just thank you for being here and honor you. I've known you for what is a five to sixty or something along those lines. Along those lines, you have been a close friend of mine. You've been a close mentor of mine. I've done a lot of work with you and with your organization and excited for you to be here and just talk a little bit about, first off, who you are, because I think you're very special, unique leader and individual, and talk a little bit about what you're doing in this world and what you're doing to impact so many different types of sales professionals, so many difference of leaders, so many different yes of companies and organizations as well, in addition to people like myself. So first off, Bennett, if you want to kind of kicks off with you, who you are, what you care about? Yeah, well, who am I? What do I care about? Some of you watching video notice I have something on my face right now. I actually I was in a part of a virtual cacaw ceremony earlier today and contemplated should I keep this on my face, because at the end you kind of spread some Cocao on your face and I said, hell yeah, I'm going to keep it on my face for the podcast because I think it actually speaks to part of who I who I am and what we do. It abundant. And who am I? I am somebody who is very passionate about transformation and creating experiences for leaders to experience transformation themselves, and I'm really passionate about leadership. I'm really passionate about developing leaders, helping others develop leaders. I'm passionate about culture, the environment that really potentiates results, potentiates business, and that's something that I've always been, whether I had the language for that or not, passionate about. I've studied it a lot, I've practiced it a lot when I've had the blessing and the benefits of being able to support thousands of leaders in developing leaders themselves, developing culture themselves and really learning from them in the process and seeing who's doing an amazing job who's struggling, and really seeing the different ingredients they contribute to an organization or a team or... individual thriving or getting stuck on the journey. I'm passionate about leadership and I'm passionate about leaders really creating cultures that allow people to grow and transform. You know so then you are CEO of an organization called abundance. Abundant is an unbelievably impactful organization that is not just help being individual sales reps. you help being leaders. Like you said, you're hoping develop the culture as well. I guess you know give us a little bit of background in terms of forstoff. What is bunnet and what was really your journey to starting this organization that has impacted so many? Now at this point, yeah, I'll dive in and Alex feel free to kind of guide me you want me to speak to anything specifically. But yeah, we at abundant. We work with both individual leaders who could be a high performer, high performing individual contributor all the way up to an executive, right. So we work with individual leaders. We also work with organizations and cultures, and in some ways it's kind of important to say that you can't separate the two, because leaders must do the work first for culture to change, or they must do the work with their culture for Culture to change. So those two are kind of inseparable. But who we typically work with? Our individuals and organizations that are experiencing a certain level of success where they've they're experiencing achievement, right. It's like they know how to sell, they've hit big numbers, they feel proficient at what they do. And that being said, there's there's something that's missing. It's like the work doesn't feel quite meaningful. It feels a little bit vanilla, and that's a really interesting, interesting place to be. As a high performer or as a high performing culture, and I'll say to any leaders out there, whenever that's the case, that's an orange flag back. Whenever things are feeling a little bit vanilla, that's an orange flag that can quickly turn into a red flag, because the results might be there, the money might be there, the achievement might be there, that performance might be there, but if things are feeling vanilla and nothing changes, then that's going to accelerate into a situation that becomes a big culture problem and we like to help people with that before it becomes a problem. And so those are the sorts of people end up working with and it's helping them really discover what's authentic to them in terms of who they want to be as a leader or what the culture wants to be together. And in that what we find is higher levels of performance actually reveal themselves. And so what we've seen over the last seven years and working with thousands of leaders and hundreds of teams and organizations is that there's a kind of a threshold which you cannot cross just focusing on achievement and like let's sell as much as we can, let's be the best in our skill set. Let's work as hard as possible. Those ingredients are are critical to high performance, but they can actually only get you so far. And the very peak of performance right, what's possible in terms of what can be created, both by an individual or an organization, requires the fullest expression of an individual or the fullest expression of a culture. It requires people to not just be operating from their heads, but be leading from their hearts. They requires people not just to be experiencing great results, but experiencing meaning and connection and long along the way. And so when organizations and individuals really make an investment into making that a priority for themselves, whether it's the investment of time, energy or money, that tends to unlock another level of performance and possibility for them. And it's not always a straight line, because sometimes the culture has to go through a shift or a transition or an individual has to go through a transition to experience that. But ultimately, again, there's a threshold that cannot be crossed without doing that deeper, more inward, more meaningful workaround authenticity. I love what you say right there, just round you know, tapping into authenticity,...

...and I think a lot of the work that you doing correct if I'm wrong here, is as a top performing rap or a top performing leader, it's really great to blow out quota right, it's really great to get that huge check in your account or to get the new car or to get that feeling of significance from that title as well, and then all of a sudden there's a certain feeling of feel like I'm missing something. So I would love for you to kind of talk about what's the typical journey of someone who maybe they're at the top of their game, maybe they're super comfortable and they're starting to say like what, what else is out there? There's something I'm missing year, and how you support them through that? Yeah, and I'M gonna take a little bit of an interesting take care because you mentioned that question, like what else is out there? And, to be honest, a lot of individual a lot of a lot of people ask that question and you know, I think there's an opportunity for leaders to ask that question of like what else is out there that we can be bringing in to our culture? What else is out there that we could be creating for our people beyond just an opportunity to make a lot of money, because I think a lot of people have seen that that's like. It ain't the s anymore. That's not what's most important to people. Is it important? Absolutely, and if you have an opportunity that can pay people a lot, you're definitely going to attract more attention and your it's going to be an easier conversation to grow your organization and grow your team. But we live in a really interesting time in human history. It's one of the most complex, if not the most complex time in human history, and there's a lot of demands on an individual which is then experienced by a collective individuals or a culture. The demand of all the different information that we're inundated with with social media and how hyper connected our world is, the demands psychologically of navigating the pandemic and how do I get my needs of connection met, and also the demands of that of like really questioning your path or your journey, which I see a lot of leaders and a lot of organizations that value leadership doing, really taking this this last year as a sign, as an opportunity to pause, to actually slow down a bit before the next leg of the journey and ask why are we really doing this? where? Where do we really want to get to? Beyond you know, Ipoh, beyond XYZ results and numbers. What's like? Why the F are we really doing this? And in in today's world? You know, there's what it means to be a human is something different than it ever has meant before in human history. And anybody listening to this, it's like you probably remember getting Internet in your home for the first time. You probably remember you or your parents getting your first cell phone and like this is a fundamental you're listening to this probably on on your phone or in your car. You might be watching this. This is being recorded on, like my computer. None of that stuff existed when I was a kid or when Alex, when you were a kid, and it's now such a central part of who we are and what life is like, and it's also central part of sales and leadership and organizing with the culture. So there's a lot to navigate that. There's been a tremendous amount of change and one of the biggest changes is how much input we all have on a daily basis. So it's just recognizing like humans have a lot more demand on them. Your salespeople have a lot more demand on them than they ever have and that goes beyond quota, that goes beyond the demands of their position. And so, you know, I see a lot of organizations really listening to that and answering the call of all right, like, what else is out there for us to create beyond just a financial opportunity for our people? Because of the world is calling right now, in the market place is calling right now, and leaders are calling right now for organizations that are really creating opportunities, not just financially, but opportunities for connection,...

...opportunities for meaning, opportunities to be a part of something that really matters and gives a deep sense of purpose. M You know, I think through the pandemic it was very much a little bit of a punch in the jaw, so to speak, or slap in the face of Oh man, which direction are we going? I mean, we are so stuck in our ways, we are so about just growing revenue for so many different types of companies and organizations and all of a sudden there's this big stop and everybody had to really start to say what is important to us right now and why are we doing what we do? And there's been such an increased focus across the business world on social causes, on mental health, on making sure that we take care of the employees and the people first, and no one in trusting that that's going to lead to positive customer and clients experiences. And I think a lot of organizations are going to say, okay, we know that's important, we know that we need to be focusing on that. BNE's come first. I think a lot of organizations, the people you know, myself, are saying it's starting to say a okay, but how how do I do that? How do I make my people feel like, you're, in saying, part of something bigger than themselves, part of a sense of a purpose in this changing landscape, in this changing environment? So how do you actually go about supporting people through that, to make people feel hey, there's a purpose in a vision that we have? Yeah, well, we've got a threeday workshop that helps people with that. Now I'm just getting we do after that. You know, the the reality is there's a question there that I think leaders have to be committed to asking and asking themselves again and again and looking for even better and better answers, and it's this question of it's not just how do we like honor the realities of mental health, and you know I'm speaking to it as like the demands on people psychologically are, however you want to define them. And the question that is important for leaders to ask is, what are the conditions in which my people will thrive? Hmm, what are the conditions in which my people will thrive? And that's the question that, I believe, as leaders, where you need to ask, and there's a lot of intelligence to that. It's like how, what's the culture, what's the environment that we could create that's going to bring out the best in our people, that's going to make them feel the most alive, it's going to give them the most energy, that's going to give them most connection and sense of purpose, and then just trust, like all right, well, those are the ingredients that we were to write it out on a piece of paper, we would say, like would lead to the best version of someone showing up. And maybe those ingredients are different for you or for your organization, right, which is why you got to ask it yourself. But it's like, all right, yeah, if someone's really energized, if someone is feeling really connected to their peers, if they're really connected to their purpose, right, they're engaged into their work, beyond the result, but they really feel how it's a contribution towards a bigger mission or towards the impact that they want to make in their life in some way. If they feel accepted for who they are, they feel psychologically safe. Right, the most important ingredient, as has been found by Google and by, you know, many business schools, to a high performing culture. So if these things exist, someone's going to be at their best. Right, also having a clear vision that's inspiring to them. All right. So if they have these things, are going to be at their best. So let's just create the environment where they have these things, because their best they're probably going to sell more, they're probably going to get creative and how they navigate challenges. They're going to be more resourceful in how they answer questions. They're going to want to be more they're going to contribute more to their peers, to their the other individuals of their team. They'RE gonna want to get more involved into the organization and really taking on its mission as their own. Like, all these things are going to happen as a product of creating an environment where the best is really brought out of an individual and a team. So I think ask the question that...

...leaders have to ask. And when we ask that question we start to see culture, we start to see leadership or management in a different way. We start to see that, hey, maybe the training is not the most important thing we have to offer our people. And again, I'm not discounting the value of training. I just think some people overrely on that or they overrely on accountability right at abundant. We believe that's important. We teach people how to do that. We train the people that come through our programs right we we like to hold them accountable, but it's the those aren't the essential ingredients that really bring out the best in somebody. And so, you know, training and accountability and management. I think that's like really the content of a culture, and that's important. But what I think people are seeing more and more, especially through the lens of the pandemic, is hey, connection and community is actually more important than the content. And so there's an opportunity right now for a lot of organizations to really hear that from this time and to let this be a pivotal time for them and really doubling down and committing it to being a culture of the future and a culture that the leaders of the future are going to want to be a part of and trust that in doing so, that's going to lead to their highest possibility of their vision being expressed, and many great things will happen along the way. You'll hit great sales numbers, you'll develop a great leaders you'll have of new people poke their head up and perform at at levels that have never been experienced before. Those are all products of asking those questions. Yeah, I've heard you say many times how important it is to create these conditions, to create this environment where people feel safe. Yeah, people peel connected and part of something. I've also heard you say how important it is to yes, we need to focus on the people, the sellers, the individual contributors, but also how important it is that the leadership needs to come first, right, the leaders need to take that very first step, and so kind of walk through that. You know, it's a slight nuance or paradox of yes, we need to keep our people good, but how do you need to focus on leadership first or yes, it's really tied to psychological safety and I think it's a great question. And what I've seen over the years is that there are times where organizations have hired us to support them, to help their team have a more empowered culture, help their team get inspired, get connected to vision. Together we do strategic planning right, connecting around a core set of values right, all these different aspects that can bring more meaning into the organization, bring more connection truly to the team or the organization, and also influence and also teach sales and specific leadership conversations, all of that. But they're are certain organizations that have said, Hey, come fix our people, we've got this challenge, got this problem. Can you come in and can you work with our team? Great, awesome, thank you so much, like I'll talk to you afterwards. And those organizations do not experience the same level of engagement from their teams, from their cultures, and therefore also don't experience as much of a result in the form of actual transformation in their team as the organizations where we talked to a leader and they say wow, yeah, this is really important and they realize that it's important for them first, and so the work that they they are asking their team to do or to go through, they go through themselves and they're actually they're not taking up the space in that of like meaning to Boone who's talks all the time or is highlighted or spotlighted there are part of the experience with the team, and not that a culture needs to be flat in that way, but when growth is an experience that happens where everybody has an equal voice in that sort of an experience, it creates so...

...much trust and it bonds everyone together, and especially when a leader leads with vulnerability like you know what. That's a that's a hard question answer and I'm going to go first with answering it. I'm not going to hide my answer from my people. I think a lot of leaders have this expectation of like, I need to have all my shit figured out. I can't let my people know that I have challenges or flaws or there's things I need to work on. I need to have all the answers, I need to have it figured out and I didn't make sure everybody sees me that way when reality, we know that we don't have it all figured out, we don't have all the answers and there's always going to be new challenges that arise for us as leaders. But when we actually reveal that to our people, it builds trust. It makes us seem like a real person, and also it creates the safety for the rest of the team to be open and honest as well, because when a team doesn't feel safe to be open or to be honest about their challenges or their struggles, there withholding a part of themselves, they're not bringing their full selves to the table. And all of us who are in leadership have, like had that experience before where things look good in our you know crm, and it looks like we're going to hit our target for end of the court and all of a sudden the numbers change last minute's like what happened there? Well, your people didn't feel safe to reveal the struggles they were having, the challenges they were having, and they wanted to save face, just and that's probably a mirror to you as a leader, of you wanted to save face and know that you show up with your culture and then looking to you mirroring and modeling that, and then you know they're practicing that too in the way that they report their numbers and their activity. So what ends up happening is, yeah, we might need to have some more difficult conversations, there might be some challenges that get brought to the surface, but those challenges are there underneath if they're not on the surface. But if they're underneath, we can't address them, we can't connect them, we can't move through them and it ends up creating this this experience of disengagement. So a culture is not defined by the leader, right. A culture is really defined by all of the individuals who are part of it, but a leader is most influential upon a culture and the work that they're doing with themselves totally. It's like the the leader. I still remember, and I say this I'm a previous podcast, I still remember at the very giving the pandemic, when our CEO, Manny Medina, got on one of our all hands and I remember he shared with every's I hate to Seby knows I'm struggling, yeah, or like I'm like mentally, I'm really having to kind of dry a little bit, and when he said that, I just remember I felt like it's okay not to be okay, it's okay to tell each other. And it was there such a great example, you know, to what you're speaking to you right there, of leaders go first when that vulnerability specifically, and vulnerability goes both ways, because it's also the vulnerability of like my desires, my vision, the things that are most important to me. And you know, if we really had to boil it down, it comes down to, you know, a lot of this comes down to, is is a culture operating just from their mind. These goals sound great, they look great, their symbols of achievement. Let's map it out. What's the strategy? What's the activity? What's the marketing plan? Great like, what are all the channels? But figuring out all the all the mental strategy that has to go along with it. But you know what, that result and that future that's created is going to happen through sales and it's going to happen through leadership. It's going to happen through conversations with team teams, team members, and then conversations between those team members and prospects and the marketplace. Sales is conversations, sales as relationships, leadership as conversations, leadership as relationships. And are those relationships in conversations happening on a foundation of true connection or just the idea of it,...

...just the idea of it? And that true connection happens not in the mind, not in the brain, but in our hearts happens in our hearts. One of the things I've good. Yeah, just gonna say so. It's like are you are? Is A culture heart center? Is it connected to its heart? And then again, we can track that back to like, all right, is is a leader or are the leaders doing the work they need to do to cultivate more connection to their heart? Listen to their heart and allow that to flow in their conversations, in their connections. And sometimes that means not having the answers. Sometimes that means not getting as much done. There's more space for connection, there's more pause, but it's it might we not get as much done, but we might get a lot more downe in the levels that aren't only seen on a in a cm or on a report, quarterly report. You know, it's like culture. The health of a culture is not typically measured right in a quarterly report for most organizations. What's the trust quotient that across our teams right right? What's what percentage of our culture is connected to their vision right now individually and it's connected to our vision as an organization? SCALEB one to ten. How much psychological safety is there? But these are the conditions that allow people to show up at their best and then therefore create the results that show up on on a report. I've heard you say many times that you know a leader has the opportunity, may, to be mirrored with their internal, so to speak, relationship with their self. Right, if they're not coming from their own true essence, their alignment, they're like, I feel good with me being me, versus a certain sense of anxiety or certain sense of insecurity or pushing it a little bit, all sudden all the people around them start to act that same type of way. MMM. So I think it is so valuable what you're speaking to of it starts out with yourself and the leaders first developing themselves, and that one actually saturate everybody else as well. Yeah, so at abundant we talked about becoming an abundant leader in your leadership and the way you manage your team or you lead your organization, if you're an executive, and an abundant leader is somebody who leaves situations and people better than they find them. So that is someone who's in the butt. You're practicing abundant leadership if you're showing up at that Lens of how can I leave this situation or this person better than I found them. Now. The paradox, and that is to be abundant, which at its root, it means to overflow. The root of the word abundant means to overflow. Well, to overflow, we have to be full. We have to be full ourselves, as everything I was speaking to earlier about, like the demands on our team, the demands on our people that are greater than ever before, same thing as true for us as leaders and for anybody listening, like the demands are greater on you than ever before. There's there's more inputs that you're getting then never before. Then our bodies are probably designed to receive. And so how do you support yourself? How do you support yourself? You take space for just you. Are you taking time to connect with peers? Are you taking time to have that space for reflection on what are my strengths as a leader? Where am I missing the mark? Where might I be out of integrity in little ways that matter in the long run? Where you creating a space for you to get clear on your authentic vision? Because these are the things that allow us to be full and then overflow to the people around us. And leaders oftentimes have more responsibility and more demand than their team, at least an expectation, and... it's even more important that they do the work. And one of the things that we talked about and teaches that the greater your ambition for your vision or the results you want to create or your achievements, the greater the support you need to be willing to give yourself and receive, and the two have to match each other. Your support has to match your ambition and I see a lot of leaders who have a lot more ambition than they do a willingness to receive support. I think it's a simple shift that leaders can make. So one of the things I know that you know you do at abundance as you throw these incredible you call them immersions. Yeah, it transformational events. You are also a live DJ as well. You leave people to these incredible experiences, not just through the content that you speak, but also through breath to work and through meditations and through vision exercises and really opening up with a sense of vulnerability, of like who really am I. So I guess you know. Will let you just, you know, quickly touch on what are these events that you guys throw? What's it like taking people through that like, what's that experience like? I mean that's that question of like, what is the environment that's going to bring out the best in people? Those are the experiences that we love to create, and so we love to whether that's virtually, which is something that we are very passionate about and some people are. We're passionate about creating experiences that bring out the best, both virtually and in person. As my point. But you know, an immersion is is an opera as an experience that we create. We call it immersion because we ask people to be fully immersed in their presence, in their focus. We did an event that you are actually a part of. This was in person. We've been doing covid safe outdoor events this year, so outdoor gathering only, but we there was we were off the grid, no phones, no Internet, right. That's kind of immersion expressed at the highest level. But there was there was no contact so that you could be fully present, fully immersed on these more important questions for yourself. And where else? What was your question specifically, because there's a lot of different directions I could go with this. I think it's more of just, you know, what's the experience like being at the Emmerson right and going to the many differents modalities with what you take people through. Yeah, you know, one of the ways that we look at it is like how we look at leaders as similar to athletes. So how can we help a leader TAPP into their highest performance, their highest possibility, similar to how an athlete might look at the same thing for themselves. And I guess it's that same question. What are the different ingredients that are going to allow someone to be at their best? And so there's helping leaders optimize their energy and there's an aspect of that that has to do with well, what are the things that you're thinking about? What's your identity? What's your mindset? Are you thinking about things that give you energy or take energy away from you? Are you interacting with people who give you energy or take energy away from you? Are you interacting with your team in a way that's giving you energy or taking energy away from you? And of course there's the physiological level. So breathwork is an amazing tool to oxygenate your system but also to get you present and get your body activated. And there's everything else that goes into it. There's there's diet, there's health, but there's that's a high performance ingredient as energy. And again, the same things that I've been speaking to in terms of a culture around safety also are true for an individual. So how do we uncover, like the ways that a leader might be selfcritical or hard on themselves? And I find a lot of higher performers are pretty freaking hard on themselves. I have been harder on myself than most and some of the greatest I've ad advice I've gotten at times is just hey, chill the fuck out, like, relax, be kind to yourself. What you need to appreciate about yourself right now, because there's such high expect patients that I have for me and what I'm supposed to be doing,...

...and I see that in a lot of leaders to. So, you know, how do we create the experience for leaders to actually question those expectations and really trust themselves deeper have some compassion for themselves? That's an important ingredient for them being able to show up and create connection most effectively and creating the space for leaders to really get connected to all right, yeah, you've got these goals, you've got these achievements that you've that you've had in the past and based on that. There's the achievements that you see for your future, the promotions that you think you're supposed to get. But like, what do you really want? What's what's most important to you? What's your vision really? Yes, for your mission, yes, for the ways that you contribute in the marketplace, but like also for your family and also for yourself, for the experience that you're having as a human on this planet, in this life. All right, and then who are you going to need to become to realize all of that, to create that? What are you going to need to learn? Where you need to grow? What characteristics, qualities or values are you going need to need to practice, need to cultivate? And then helping leaders step into that step, into the version of themselves that's going to realize the vision of what they really want, which is where our highest possibility exists and it's also where our highest results come from, because anybody who knows sales knows that when a salesperson's on fire, there's something about that like they're just on fire when they're creating the highest possible results. There's something that's just like unstoppable about them, and that's really the conversation that we love to have and the experiences we love to create, where we like those fires powerfully and people become unstoppable and moving towards the division. Well, Hey man, I got one more question for you, but before I do, I just want to acknowledge you and just honor you for being here, for being your unique and honest and authentic self, even having the Cacao all over your face, here for this. And you don't just, you know, speak a good mission, you live it. You know, you first embody it yourself, just like your messages, and you've impacted tons of people. You've intpacted me, you've impacted you know, the kind of the geometric impact from you and patting others and them impacting others as well, and so really just on your path and I know you know what you're doing. You've been doing it Ph nomenal for seven years. But this is just the beginning of the beginning and there's a long, exciting road that you are going to be embarking upon. A wise man once said that it's just a beginning. Is the beginning, the beginning of the beginning. So last question for you is this. If you had to embark one piece of wisdom set a lot here. You said it. A lot of wisdom here. One piece of wisdom, one maybe simple, short issh phrase. What would that WIS so be? Yeah, I would just say that, like now, really matters. Now, really matters now, matters now more than ever, and that's always true, but it's more true now than ever. And I'm speaking really to culture and the way we show up as leaders are our world is changing and it's being shaped, it's being defined right now. I believe in a lot of people, meant, much smarter than me, believe that humanity is really defining itself and you know, I just think cultures a huge part of the future of humanity. Culture is a huge part of what's getting defined right now. What do we value? How do we show up with each other? Do we come from our heads or our hearts? How much connection is there? And you know, a lot of people listening and a lot of people that I work with our are and that we work with that abundant are in technology. And...

...your technology does matter, your product does matter, but what if your culture mattered more? What if that was the greatest impact that you can make was through the way that you create culture, not just a product or a service or a technology, and I think the world really needs people to take that mantle of response disability on and have that become a part of many people's mission, and I think that shapes the future more than any technology, though there are many technologies that are going to shape the future too. So I think that's just something that might be useful to a few people who are listening. I love that, man, now matters awesome that. Well, Hey, if people are picking out what you're putting down, people want to learn more. How did they get in contact with you? How do they get in contact with abundant? Yeah, so we've got a couple different opportunities right now and I would say there's people that probably fall into one of two categories. There might be someone listening who's curious for how we might be able to support an organization or a team, as a lot of organizations and teams are really taking this as a time to find their future together. If that's the case, you can reach out to US individually and we love to hop on a conversation to see, hey, is there a way that abundant can support your organization, your team, your culture? You can just reach out to been at abundant leadercom. been at abundant leadercom and also, some of you who are listening might realize, you know what, I haven't had a whole lot of connection in this pandemic. There has been a swirl. Maybe you've managed it well, maybe you've managed average, maybe you're feeling kind of shitty about way things are right now. Could fall in any category, but either way there's a lot of leaders right now that are craving connection. You craving opportunities to disconnect from their responsibility and from all that's on your plate, to connect to yourself and your vision at a higher level and really the version of you as a leader that that's going to call for. And so we have emerging experiences that we create for that and there's a virtual option and in person option for those, and for that too, you can just reach out to me. It might be somebody from my team who reaches out. In our teams amazing. I am so grateful for our team. I feel honored to work with everybody at abundant that I do. But we would, we're happy to get in touch. If you reach out, you can also, and that's the easiest way, to shoot me an email been at abundant leadercom, so I'll just say they're say that awesome. been. You're wise, my friend. Appreciate you joining us and for all the listeners. As always, we appreciate you, guys, Jodan, and we look forward the next one. This was another episode of the sales engagement podcast. To help this get in front of more eyes and ears, please leave us a shining five star review. Join US at sales engagementcom for new episodes. Resources in the book on sales engagement to get the most out of your sales engagement strategy. Make sure to check out outreach. That ioh, the leading sales engagement platform. See you on the next episode.

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