The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 9 months ago

Career Development: Identifying & Coaching Future Managers

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

You’ve identified someone who could definitely grow into a managerial role, but you’re not sure how to coach them. What you need is a career development framework that is built especially to transition reps into managers.

In this episode, I interview Taylor Corr , Head of US Corporate Sales at Quantcast , about feedback, management training, and how self-knowledge makes you a better coach.

In this episode we discuss:

- Qualities of future leaders, including eagerness

- Management training starts with emotional intelligence

- How keeping a manager journal helps you identify opportunities for praise

- Giving and getting feedback

- Advice for aspiring managers on preparing yourself to lead

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify , or on our website .

Welcome to the sales engagement a podcast. This podcast is brought you by outreach, the leading sales engagement platform, and they just launched outreach on outreach, the place to learn how outreach well does outreach? Learn how the team follows up with every lead in record time after virtual events and turns them into revenue. You can also see how outreach runs account based plays, manages reps and so much more using their own sales engagement platform. Everything is backed by data pulled from outreach processes and customer base. When you're done, you'll be able to do it as good as they do. Head to outreach Doo on outreach to see what they have going on. Now let's get into today's episode. Hello and welcome back everyone to the sales engagement podcasts. Thank you, as always, for hanging out with us for the next thirty minutes. Always Fun conversations and I've been looking forward to this one for for a while. I am joined by Taylor Core Taylor, welcome man, he Scott, good to be here. Excited Down with yet we're happy to have you and tales. Currently the head of US corporate sales and it come to be called quant cast. Super Cool Fast Rowing Company, but I always like to hear it from from our gats, like what's the the Superhero origin story of Taylor? How do you get to where you're at? It such a cool come. Yeah, great question. You know, I think, as of a lot of people, I kind of fell into sales and I don't think anyone goes to school and says hey, I'm getting, you know, going to be in sales an attack. You know, later in my career I started on the financial side. I was working at Bloomberg at a college. Great Company but, you know, big at ninety percent market share and it was a little flower pace than maybe I was looking for right out of college, and so kind of meandered over to recruiting after that. That was a grind. I'd all the respect in the world for folks and in the recruiting world you know monthly quotas and you can go into all pretty quickly and coming out of that I you know, I don't know if that was right environment for me. And my buddy started talking to me about the antech industry and some of the cool things that that quant cast was doing with data's is back in two thousand and fourteen and add techs in industry really kicked off in two thousand and nine, you know, and really started to get going. So the whole industry is a really cool sweet spot and the technology at a quant cast was something really compelling to me. So joined up as an account of executive at that point. And you know, quant casts we arem our a's of a lot of kind of flexibility and autonomy and for me that was a perfect environment for me to hop into sales with. And along the way I developed kind of a sense that, hey, I want to be in a manager capacity, I want to help teach and coach and lead a team. That was a little bitesize stuff like being a part of interviewing, being a part of the mentorship team, taking opportunities to lead some trainings, being a buddy and the developed into a managerial role. A lot of fits and starts of that development. Betwe can who you can talk about, but eventually it was fortunate enough to find myself an opportunity to be leading the the entire channel, which is, you know, again another same type of challenges you experience going from aid manager, manager to Director. There's there's a lot of different challenges to come, but I've been in that role about about two and a half years now and absolutely loving it and definitely, you know, filled up with quodcast cool aid and big, big champion for the company. So now I've been you know, think about how to grow the team, how to go by managers, how to grow all the individral contributors that are in the channel as well. And that brings us to today, and that's where we're going to spend some time talking about today, is sort of this idea of setting up career development frameworks from the get go and what it takes to transition wraps on your ...

...team who you know are maybe great individual contributors. How do you get them ready to be frontline managers? What are two things that listeners can do if they're hoping to get me into a managerial position. But before we get there, it's going to be a side a side track. Just because you're are in adds acted, you can say that's way out of scope. I don't even know what I'm talking about. But right now I had a lot of marketers and procut to are freaking out over these IOS changes. You know about these these changes. You can get information from facebook and it's a whole thing and a lot of people, my girlfriend actually runs for an e commerce brands and they're seeing like a reduction of probably thirty percent in how effective their ads are. Are you seeing this? You have a opinion on this? How are people getting around this? What's the future of the yeah, Oh, it's such a fascinating one of the reasons I love at tech. I mean it's both fascinating and terrifying because big companies like apple and Google can make these announcements and they have ripple effects across a ton of companies. So not only do you have apple creating challenges for APP based marketers, particularly facebook, in terms of how much can be tracked. In the APP space, Google doing away with with third party cookies, and in the web space you have privacy regulations are really heavy in Europe that are coming to the to the US. More and more. Google's doing away with third party cookies and there are currently eighty five different industry proposals for what to do to replace the cookie. So it's just a little bit of so mayhem yet, but but you know, a lot of people are staring down this deadline that Google has said Google doesn't in a plan yet. They're just they get some ideas. But yes, and in the APP space, with tracking being, you know, much tougher, you're seeing a lot of marketers that have to adapt, but in a very uncertain environment. You know, each fenders got a little different plan and how they're going to approach it. Can the rest of the industry come up with a framework that exists alongside the apples and Google's and facebooks of the world who want to have their own plan and kind of take all the data and put it in their walled gardens? So it's a fascinating time but definitely a top of my topic for marketers every day. Yeah, so, so interesting. It feels like that has to be the way. Where we're moving is like ideally away from this almost monopoly of day that, like, I think ultimately will probably be a good thing. Might be some bumps along along the way for businesses that are heavy reliance on it. Hopeful will we always did that stuff. Well, we'll figure it out the add tech companies. We'll leave the lead the charge. Cool. Okay, thanks for indulging that little tangent siding to stop of mine. So let's talk a little bit about some of the things that you've done at a quand cast and I know you've got a program where you're able to upscale up level and put people in manager programs. I guess that's the start, at the beginning. How do you, as a leader, start to identify those folks on your team that may become future leaders? Yeah, it's a it's a great question because I have seen, you know, both that at quodcast and other companies, folks who really wanted to be a manager and, you know, maybe when they got into the seat it was a different set of challenges and they anticipated and I'm seeing the opposite. I've seen folks who really focus on getting that enterprise role and made a pivot into management and have been really great fits. I think it's always nice when you have reps on the team who naturally want to be a resource for the others around them and are ener, genuinely excited about people's success. These are the people that you know when someone is new. They're the ones reaching out, welcoming them, seeing that they need me resources, asking them but what they need, checking in on them. They're the folks who...

...are sharing best practices proactively just because they want to, not because, you know, they've been told to folks who, you know, when you offer up some different project opportunities or or expanded roles, are really eager to take them on, particularly if it's related to mentorship or interviewing or some of the managerial type capacities you might step into as an a R am. So we always look for that who is naturally inclined to these things, because you can always, of course, say hey, Scott, I need you on the interview team and you could say you know, of course I'm here for you. But it's a people, I think, who are naturally seeking those things out. That that would be the biggest thing I would look for. Yeah, or kind I'm excited about it, putting themselves in that position. Do you believe you've people have conflicting thoughts on this. You have like team leads, almost player coaches, a quantcast right now. PEOP believe in that? You think it's not the best way of doing things. Do you have team League position? You know, it's interesting. We did in the past and one of the challenges we found was that it was really taking our best reps maybe didn't have an inclination towards management and sliving their time and taking them away from you know, some people love the individual contributive role and are going to be in that path forever and that's terrific and we should encourage that. And I think when you try and say hey, you've been here three years, you know you've been a little more senior, we're going to put you in this team league capacity, that can just be a mismatched in terms of skills and abilities. I think there's a way to make the team lead role work. We haven't quite found it, I think. More so you have kind of an informal capacity that folks will take on, where you got a manager, you've got seen the REP was really eager to take on some of those manage real capacity. So we will say, Hey, you know jakes starting, can you share some of your email? If you know jakes starting, can you informally give them some of that responsibility without saying hey, thirty percent of your times can be devoted to assistant managing? Think we share similar vie point there. I'm conflicted because in my personal rare back in the day, I started as like a team lead and that's what let into to management. So it was an important step for me. But I also remember like how difficult it was. Too Bad alliance both sides, because I still had a quota at the time and then you doing this, and so it's it can be difficult. Okay, my next question is, so there's not very much manager training out there. I remember back in the day the thing that first kind of brought this to my attention. I had was a bad manager and I remember I kind of got recruited to interview for this direct or position of this other company and I remember and everything's going really well and mailed the first two interviews and then I remember talking to CEO and means you just asked me a very simple question like what is your manager framework? How do you think about managing people? The kind of was just like I just help them. I tried, don't, I don't, I don't know I had a framework. I was never taught of Raymork. I was more just like how would I want someone to help me? Kind of thing. So how do you look at maybe upskilling people before they're in management position to give kind of management training to individual contributors and some capacity to Yas? It's the great question because I think going back the team lead thing, we don't want to divide their attentions too much. But we do want to prepare them and you know, there's so little that a's rams do in their individual contributor role that actually prepares you to be a manager. Certainly the product competency, cross functional relationships vary, things like that can be helpful, but so much of being a manager is your people skills, your your emotional intelligence, your coaching style. So my advice to people who are, you know, going from that I see to manager role and maybe you're in that that six month period before you're going to become a manager or you feel like you want to lay the groundwork.

A lot of that for me is around building emotional intelligence and incation abilities. I know that's a really broad umbrella, but I think about like the more that you can understand your own weaknesses and strengths, how you can think about, you know, the types of communication strategies that are really effective for you and how you convey yourself best and what your motivations and weaknesses are. All those things help you unlock that in people you are coaching and that's something you can do before you're a manager, just on your own. A lot of resources for that. There's probably a million books on emotional intelligence that that you can pick up. You can just have conversations with folks, maybe it's your roommate or your spouse or your family member, to just talk about he like, what do you think? You know, trying to figure out when my motivations are, or I'm trying to figure out what my triggers are. You know, as a specific example, we talk about the concept of self regulation, kind of separating the trigger that might be you might be feeling internally from your external response, and that's important as a manager. Right, you're going to have young reps are, you know, frustrating experiences with cross functional folks, with clients, with with your with your reps individually, and being able to kind of maintain that, you know, every stock, you don't feel robot but to maintain a thinking capacity while you're in those situations is really important. So I think there's a lot of learning you can do about yourself that prepares you actually really will to be a manager, even if you don't have all the specific tools in your tool bell yet. Yeah, I love that. Some of those are really difficult questions to ask people. You know, what are my blinds bought? Part are my triggers. I remember doing an exercise back in the day where I asked anyway about seven or eight of my friends, three of my good qualities and three of my bad qualities and that they're interesting exercises. It's certainly one of the most, I think, helpful and impactful things that that I've done, because you'll be be quite surprised, you know, and one of letting, I'll hand to that. You know, an interesting tactic that I employed and and still I don't do it every day, but I was doing it every day. But just take off was keeping a manager Journal and about ten minutes at the end of each work day I would kind of run through the interactions I had that the meetings I had. And you know what did frustrate me during the day? What we're interactions that I wanted to to go better or areas where it's like all you know, I wasn't a wonder them with Scott and I wanted to take more of a coaching approach, but I ended up just telling him what to do instead of, you know, doing the tougher kind of coaching route. Those kind of things really helped me develop that awareness. I like that a lot that's a great a great idea. Plus, you can, yeah, and I'm at we can put in a couple notes that maybe you can relate to next time you're talking to them and and things you can pick up to show that you're leaning in or really Karen so being super it sounds like you're very intentional as a leader when you do have one on one time, you know, but it's it's critical time, right, like or wearing so many kind of group sums and stuff, but that one on one time it's so, so important. I found a lot of newer managers people again that we're just never really trained, kind of just freeze out and you know, you got half an hour and what do you want to talk about? Do you have a framework that you work off when you're typically doing a one on one? That's a great question. I wish I had a better one. I will say we do devote intentional time once a week to some of these manager training topics. Once a quarter we have development conversations. Twice a year we have the review conversations. I personally could get much better at the one on one time. At times I've thrown in a solid framework and then we deviate from it because maybe something happened and we wanted to dive into that topic or, you know, really excited about something the pipeline, and we go, you know, rabbit holing on that. So I would say that's definitely an area of improvement for you, but it's something I would like to get better at.

I was listening to a recent PODCAST, I've heard, forget which one of was, but the head of mid market sales at Amazon was on and she for the whole time, only talked about I think it was forty five minutes just talking about how she runs her one on ones and what she wants to get from it, and I was like yes, that is that is what I need to do. And you know, for a short time they had an email before like hey, here's the topics were to cover in addition to these standard ones, and then afterwards and share action items and wading to of us are going to own. I got away from that habit. I it's a recommended habit that I do not follow, but I think aligning on topics at a time and then, really importantly, having action items, and maybe it's making your hour longone fifty minutes. You have time to at the end to say, Hey, you're owning these two things, I'm owning these three things. Here's when we're going to get them done. I think that is really, really important. I got away from it, but that is something I am going to tell myself as as a recommendation. Yeah, I like it. For the listeners out there there, you know, they're clicked on this one. I imagine many of them are individual contributors trying to go into management. How would you coach them to, let's say you're there, their boss. How would you coach them to bubble that you know do? Is that something that you should be like telling people in interview, like is This Day One? Is this? Now, put your head down, get results, then come to me once you're crushing it. How do you approach that in initial conversation? That can sometimes be be daunting. Maybe you're just start a college, just got this job, you love this job, you don't want to like you know that mighty the water, whatever it may be. Yeah, I think a great question, and I'm personally a fan of as early as possible, raise your hand, and you got to raise your hand so that people know, and I think not just to your you know, direct manager, but to folks in other departments who you are friends with and others where your cross functional relationships become so important. Obviously isn't. I see you lean on those cross functional folks, but it's a manager you really you know, your communication relationship with these folks is really important. So tell them folks in other sales channels or other departments like and this kind of what I want to build towards. And maybe that's an informal and maybe you're grabbing coffee with a manager and another channel to kind of pick their brain about management. I had a twice in my capacity, hired managers from other sales channels to join my sales channel as a manager, and I wouldn't have known they want to be managers and less unless they made that known. You know, so reason the hand, but also saying like, and maybe there's a set framework at your company for typically, Hey, someone's in the role for two years, for you more or Hey, it's a you know, four or five year path. I think understanding what that path is and saying hey, I'd like to w this, you know, becomes available, make that known early and then just taking the approach of you know, what do I need to do? And getting an understanding of what that timeline is is really important. Maybe the first step is just going from aid to senior a and you're going to folk as on that. But I always love knowing where people's interests are ahead of time and then, while you're along that path, yes, crush your roll and so, you know, make yourself as prepared as possible. Some things I was mentioned. Really look for ways to present yourself in that light, and it can be as easy as Sharing Best Practices via slack checking in with the new employee. There's little things like keeping an accurate forecast that you know managers and ICES are in eternal battle about. You know, just little things like that. You can present yourself as someone who's ready for that challenge when it opens up, because I often find to the manager opportunities come up quite suddenly. Typically sales words are in. Hey, we're going to create an entirely new team here. When you an extra manager head, it's typically hate this managers moving to Boston, or you know that there's something like that. They come up quite suddenly in my experience. So you want to lay a base first. Yeah, I like it. Yeah, almost being always ready and something you want to highlight. There's like, yes, make your intentions down, and I agree with you that the sooner the better.

You Know Day one if that's your intention. There's nothing wrong with letting people know that that's your your intention, but also having the self awareness to know what it typically looks like to get there. And no one likes someone who's like looking past their role too much. Right you need to that self awareness of black I'm going across this. I know this is where I'm at right now, but that's the reason I want to get to and also I love this idea of start mingling with other managers and other departments. That's going to help on the line and managing people. As managing people, whether you're managing engineer salespeople. There's a lot of red threads throughout it and you can probably learn a ton by how someone's managing a group of engineers versus salespeople, and you'd probably take some of those learnings and and apply it, because I like that. One of the last things I wanted to talk about, and I don't know if this is something I know it was different for me when I got into like a leadership position. salespeople were lucky that we actually get a decent amount of praise when we're doing well. Right when you pick your your number, you're celebrated, you hit your hearly number, you go to President's Club. It is a PAT people on the back profession because it's a really hard one. So it's needed. As soon as you jump into management, like the Higher Arch you go, the less paths on the back you get and it can be kind of jarring, you know, and no one wants to work for work under the manager or leader. Who wants? WHO NEEDS PRAISE? Right, you should be pushing all of the praise down to your team. A Do you do you agree with what that would you have you found that to be true? And how do you prepare for people? How do you recognize leaders at quantcast? Talk me through how you book that, because I think it's sometimes an overlooked by what people are climbing the leadership fire. Oh absolutely, and I'm so glad you brought that up because it is a really good to stay challenge. You know, you can't look at you when you're an eight at the end of the day. It's like I made my thirty calls. I advanced this in pipeline stage and there's really none of those really concrete wins. Yes, you might have played a a close role in a deal that closed, your team might have hit goal, but it is, as you mentioned, it really is an individual contributor accomplishment. One of the best ways I heard this described I was reading an article that talked about level five leadership and the concept was, you know, when things are going really well, you are a window and you are you know, the CFO says hey, your channels are great and you're like no, it was you know, jar and Susan, and you know you're distributing praise. It's like oil just, you know, slipping right off yet but when things are going bad, you're a mirror and it's like, Yep, that was me. You know, Buck stops here, and I really do think that is really sage advice. I buy into that really completely. And that is a tough part about being a leader. And that's one of the tough things about in really high achieving as who don't quite understand all the challenges. And no one really understands all the challenge in your copit in the management but that can be one of the most jarring when you are used to getting all the hub accolades and suddenly know it's Claire who close that deal and it's something that is an ajutment period and my advice to managers would be to look for wins where you can, and this plays into kind of emotional intelligence aspect. This from a manager journal Perspective of something that that I employed that other people can it's like, okay, what was the win from today? Maybe you've been coaching someone on how do right really effective emails and they had two great emails that you might not even have praise them for it, but you noticed it in sales engagement platform like you know what, those were two great emails. Hey, is my coaching kind of shining through here? Maybe one of your reps stood up at the all hands and delivered a really effective presentation and they had...

...been struggling with, you know, their public speaking. A lot of these are are they're tough to spot sometimes because, as you mentioned, Scott, no one's going to come up to you and say, Hey, you did a great job coaching on those emails. You know, as much as your your director or your Croro might think that you're doing a great job, that's not always forthcoming and it's not always verbalized and and you know it doesn't get highlighted as much. So I would say look for the winds where you can think about where you applied your coaching efforts and what you've been talking about your team with and look for those ones that might be reflections of the resources and efforts you've been putting forth and you can kind of celebrate those privately and and you know, hold onto those or you are, you know, storing those up for when you're doing a review with your manager talking about your growth as a manager, you can you can highlight those things kind of your internal manager resumes. You're building and growing, but you're absolutely right and it's an adjustment period and that's something that new managers should be prepared for it. I really like that that analogy and had that one before with the window when things are going well and in there when things are not going so well, and I like this idea of writing a wins down and a manager Journal. So I think I've done probably the last five years is I have a little champion folder I called on my desktop and any like just good internal feedback, wins or whatever. I'll just do a quick screenshot now throwing in that champion folder, go to a similar to kind of your your manager Journal, and I find it's good a internal reviews like you mentioned, and be for ever having an off day or feeling just like none feeling it. It's great to just go through there and okay, there's there's some cool awesome. So it's been a great conversation. Before we go to kind of talking about some of the key takeaways and things we want to highlight, is there anything that we then we miss that you want to highlight in this round? Yeah, I think the final thing that was coming to mind for me, is I was thinking about this, is sourcing feedback in the value of that feedback. It is really tough to get feedback from your director ports. Some companies have a formal free sixty review system. We had a manager feedback survey early Holland when I was a manager, and one of the one of the first pieces of feedback I got, is anonymous for team, was that one of my reps told me that I was mechanically compassionate. And you know, it's just like that. I listen, but like I was trying to express that I care that, but that I really didn't end and as devastating as that was to hear, it was such valuable feedback for me to really refocus my attention on that emotional intelligence at aspect, to really think really hard about how I related to my reps and how what my relationship should be with them. There was so much value there and so, especially early on as a manager, it is tough to get that feedback, but you absolutely need to source it. Some managers might have a framework such as hey, you know, what is one thing I'm doing well, one thing I should stop doing and one thing I should start doing. You know, whatever that works, you know for you, either with your team or an organizational level. I absolutely encourage that. It can. Again, it's going to be tough, but it's kind of putting it in a really good position moving forward. I like to feedback is it's huge and I feel like there's more tuning and technology coming out in that field that makes it easier to collect that. It's all like anonymize people feel more more comfortable. Sometimes you can even do it in like real time, like right after the oneon one and stuff. I like that a lot. That's a good call up all right, least thirty minutes always fly by and never ceases. Its amazing how quickly they go. But takular when the conversations going so well. But people are busy and a lot of people, when those in a podcast, they're they're multitasking at they're like me, you know, they got a few things going on. Maybe they're working out, going for a walk, clearing their head. If people forget everything of the last thirty minutes and just remember three things, what would you like those three things to be? Yeah, and Hey, I listen to podcasts, let like you...

...do. I got to get a million things going on. So for the new or asspiring managers out there, it is really difficult to prepare yourself for a manager role. Just I think about hey, you know, what are these tools that I need? I personally would focus on emotional intelligence, getting to know yourself as strongly as possible, how you learn and grow, What your motivations and challenges are. That will help provide a really good base for you as a manager and really just professionally. The second piece of advice, why? I think one of those important things we talked about. Manager wins are extremely hard to come by. Looking for ways to recognize those wins yourself finding the good that you're doing and recognizing those wins. It's a really important skill to have as a manager and something you should practice daily, weekly. And the third thing formal, frontline managerial training. That's tough to come by and it's tough to find out there, especially without, you know, investing in a maybe a large class or retraining resource. So use the people around you, source and informal network at work. There are a ton of managers at Your Company and, as you mentioned, Scott, they can be in finance or engineering or other sales channels. There is man a jurial knowledge all around and what we've done a quote cast is we meet weekly and just chat amongst ourselves. None of us are Eil professors. Were all, you know, just managers trying to to get better our craft. You can source that internal network and learn a ton from it as well. A lot of those are an excellent three. The the first one the youth, so incredibly important. Underscore that one. If you focus on personal growth as much as you focus on professional growth, that they almost need to grow and in tandem, or maybe even personal growth has to come before professional growth, because as you as you become a leader, if that's not taking care of it starts to show out so out of that's awesome. Well, Taylor, thank you so much, man. I got a page full of crazy notes on that one, but that was a lot of fun and to all the listeners, thanks much hanging out with us. See next time. This was another episode of the sales engagement podcast. To help this get in front of more eyes and ears, please leave us a shining five star review. Join US at sales engagementcom for new episodes. Resources in the book on sales engagement to get the most out of your sales engagement strategy, make sure to check out outreach. That ioh, the leading sales engagement platform. See you on the next episode.

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