The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 3 months ago

Career Development: Identifying & Coaching Future Managers

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

You’ve identified someone who could definitely grow into a managerial role, but you’re not sure how to coach them. What you need is a career development framework that is built especially to transition reps into managers.

In this episode, I interview Taylor Corr , Head of US Corporate Sales at Quantcast , about feedback, management training, and how self-knowledge makes you a better coach.

In this episode we discuss:

- Qualities of future leaders, including eagerness

- Management training starts with emotional intelligence

- How keeping a manager journal helps you identify opportunities for praise

- Giving and getting feedback

- Advice for aspiring managers on preparing yourself to lead

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify , or on our website .

Welcome to the sales engagement, apodcast, this podcast is brought you by outreach, the leading sales engagement,a platform, and they just launched out reach on our reach the place to learnhow out reach well does out reach, learn how the team follows up withevery lead in record time after virtual events and turns them into revenue. Youcan also see how out retines account based plays, manages reps and so muchmore using their own sales engagement platform. Everything is backed by datapulled from out reach processes and customer base when you're done you'llbe able to do it as good as they do had to out reached out io on out reach tosee what they have going on now, let's get into today's episode, hello andwelcome back every one to the sales engagement podcast. Thank you as oursfor hanging out with us for the next thirty minutes always findconversations and I've been looking forward to this one for for a while, Iam joined by Taylor. Corp plaeace man and he's got good good to be herebecause I understand it, the we're happy to have you and tell us currentlythe head of US corporate sales but come be called the codas super cool, fastgrowing company, but I always like to hear it from from our guests, like:What's the the Superhero origin story of of Taylor, how do you get to whereyou're at at such a Pocut Yeah? A great question like you know, I think, as alot of people, I kind of fell into sales and I don't think anyone goes toschool and says: Hey, I'm get you know Colbe in sales and antic. You knowwitwaters in my career I started on the on the financial side. I was working atBloomberg at a college, Great Company, but you know if they had ninety percentmarket share and it was a little slower pace and maybe I was looking for rightout of college and so kind of meandered over to recruiting. After that, thatwas a grind. I all the respect in the world for Folksong the recruiting world.You know monthly quotas and you you can go to all pretty quickly and come in,and out of that, I you know, I don't know I that was right environment forme and then my buddy started talking to me about the antic industry and some ofthe cool things that that codas was doing with Datas back in two thousandand fourteen and attics and industry really kicked offin two thousand and nine. You know and really started to get going, so thewhole industry is at it at a really cool sweet spot and the technology atQuanda was something really compelling to me. So I joined up a an accountexecutive at that point and you know podcast. We are or as of a lotof kind of flexibility and an autonomy, and for me that was a perfect evirenefor me to hop into sales with and along the way. I developed a kind of a sense that hey I want to bein a kind of managerial capacity. I want to help teach and coach and leavea team that was a little bite sized stuff like being a part of interviewing.Being a part of the mentorship team, taking you know, opportunities to leadsome trainings being a buddy and it developed into a managerial role, a lotof fits and starts with that development, which we can now we cantalk about, but eventually you know. I was fortunate enough to I self anopportunity to be leading the the entire channel, which is you know again,another same type of challenge. As you experience going from a manager managerto director. There's, there's a lot of different challenges to come, but I'vebeen in that role about two and a half years now and absolutely loving it anddefinitely you know, filled up with podcast, coulait and big big championfor the company. So now I've been, you know, thinking about how agir the team,how Tong Gar my managers how to grow all the initial contributors that arein the channel as well- and that brings us to today and that's what we we're in to spendsome time talking about today- is sort of this idea of setting up career developmentframeworks from the get go and of what...

...it takes to transition wraps on yourteam, who, you know are may be great individual attributes I didn't get themready to be front line. Managers at are some things that listeners can do withtheir hoping to get into a a managerial position, but before we get there, thisgoing to be a side, a side track just because you're in a tact- and you cansay that's way out of scope- I don't even know what you're talking about,but right now I have a lot of marketers some talker to are freaking out overthese IOS changes. You know, but these these changes, you can get informationfrom facebook and it's a whole thing and a lot of people. My girlfriendactually runs a brown e commerce brand and they're. Seen like a reduction,probably thirty percent, in how effective their ads are. Are You Senos?Do you have a opinion on this? How are people getting around this? What's Ithe future of the yeah? Oh, it's such a fascinating one of one of the things Ilove at tech. I mean it's both fascinating and terrifying, because bigcompanies like capital and Google can make these announcements and they havea ripple effects across the tonic companies. So not only do you haveapple, creating challenges for a base, marketers, particularly facebook, interms of how much can be tracked in the AP Space Google doing away with withthird party cookies and in the web space. You know, pradas regulationsthat are really heavy in Europe that are coming to do to the US more andmore Google's doing away with certain party cookies, and there are currentlyeighty five different industry proposals for what to do to replace thecookie. So it's just a little bit of Sot Maham yet, but, but you know, a lotof people are staring down. This deadline that Google has said, Googledoesn't mean at a plan yet they're, just they got some ideas, but yes, in in theAPP space with tracking being, you know much tougher you're, seeing a lot ofmarketers that have to adapt, but in a very uncertain environment. You knoweach fender is got a little different plan and how they're going to approachit can by rest of the industry, come up with a framework that exists alongsidethe apples and googles and facebooks of the world who want to have their ownplan and kind of take all the data and put it in their wild gardens. So it's afascinating time, but definitely a top of mine topic for for marketers everyday yeah. So it's so interesting. It feels like that has to be the way wherewe're moving is like, ideally away from this. Almost monopoly of data, like Ithink ultimately, will probably be a good thing- might be some bump salonalong the way for for businesses that are heavily reliance on it, but hopefulall. We always do that so well. Moliere out e, the Adecco Nies wit, will leavethe lead the charge cool, okay thanks for indulging that Little Tang in something to top of mind. So let's talk a little bit about some of the thingsthat you've done it at Oncas and I know you've got a program where you're ableto upscale a level and then put people in manager programs. I guess that's astart at the beginning. How do you, as a leader, start to a identify thosefolks on your team that may become future leaders? Yeah? It's a greatquestion because I have seen you know both that at podcast rother companies,folks who really wanted to be a manager- and you know maybe when they got intothe seat, it was a different set of challenges and they'd anticipated andI've seen the opposite. I've seen folks who were really focused on getting thatenterprise role and made a pitt into management and it been really greatfits. I think it's always nice when you have reps on the team, who naturallywant to be a resource for the others around them and are enter genuinelyexcited about people's success. These are the people that you know whensomeone is new, they're, the ones reaching out welcoming them, seeing ifthey need me resources asking them, but what they need checking in on them,they're the folks who are sharing best...

...practices proactively, just becausethey want to not, because you know they've been told to folks who you knowwhen you offer up some different project opportunities or expanded rolesare really eager to take them on, and particularly if it's related tomentorship or interviewing or some of the material type capacities you mightstep into as an arm. So we always look for that. Who is naturally inclined tothese things, because you can always, of course, say Hay Scot. I need you onthe Inter your team, and you could say you know, of course I m here for you,but it's a people. I think who are naturally seeking those things out,that that would be the biggest thing. I would look for yeah who are kind ofexcited about it, putting themselves in that position. Do you believe thispeople have conflicting thoughts on this? You have like team leads almostplayer, coaches a podcast fit now, if you believe in that, you think it's notthe best way of doing things, do you have to a because you know it'sinteresting. We did in the past, and one of the challenges we found was thatit was really taking our best reps. maybe didn't have an inclinationtowards management and splitting their time and taking them away from you knowsome people love the individual conteritur role and are going to be inthat path for er, that's terrific, and we should encourage that, and I thinkwhen you try and say, Hey you've been here three years, you know you've beenclose or senior we're going to put you in this team league capacity that canjust be able to Ninah and in terms of skills abilities. I think there's a wayto make the team lead role work. We haven't quite found it. I think more.So you know kind of an informal caste that folks will take on where you got amanager. You've got to see the repos really eager to take on some of thosemandal pasty, so we will say: Hey you know jake starting. Can you share someof your email? You Know Jake starting. Can you an formally give them some ofthat responsibility without saying a thirty percent of your time is going tobe devoted to assistant managing in we share a similar hea point there I'mconflicted, because in my personal queer back in the day I started as likea tea money and that's what led into to management. So it was an important stepfor me, but I also remember like how difficult it was to balance both sides,because I still had a I a quota at the time, and then you doing this so soit's it can be difficult. Okay. My next question is so there's not very muchmanager training out that I remember back in the day the thing that firstkind of brought this to my attention. I had bows a beating manager- and Iremember I kind of got recruited to interview for this director position ofthis other company. I remember, and everything was going really well andtailed the first year interviews and then I remember I was talking to co ands. You just asked me a very simple question like what is your managerframe? How do you think about managing to cal, I kind of was just like. I justhelped them. I just I don't know I had framework. I was never taught a more.It was more just like how would I want someone to help me kind of thing. Sohow do you look at? Maybe upskilling people before their in Banige positions?Do you give kind of management training to individual contributors and Sofas toyeast great question, because I think going back to team league thing. Wedon't want to divide their attentions too much, but we do want to preparethem, and you know there's so little that a Eser MS, do in their individualcontributor role that actually prepares you to be a manager. Certainly, theproduct competency Tuntuna relationships, various things like thatcan be helpful, but so much of being a manager is your people skills, youremotional intelligence, your coaching style. So my advice to people who areyou know going from an ice to manager, roll and maybe you're in that that sixmonth period before you're going to become a manager or Ow, you feel likeyou want to lay the ground work. A lot...

...of that for me is round buildingemotional intelligence and ICATION abilities, palets or early broadumbrella, but I think about like the more that you can understand your ownweaknesses and strikes how you can think about. You know the text ofcommunication. Travis are really effective for you and how you conveyyourself best and what your motivations and weaknesses are. All those thingshelp you unlock that in people. You are coaching and that's something you cando before. You're a manager just find your own. He on resources for thatthere's, probably a million books on emotional intelligence that you canpick up. You can just have conversations with folks, maybe it'syour roommate or your spouse, or your family member to just talk about helike what do you think you know what kind of fire at a man motivations areor I'm trying to figure out what my triggers are. You know as a specificexample, we took out the concept of suffer regulation kind of separatingthe trigger that might be to make feeling internally from your externalresponse and it's important as a manager right you're going to havegiven up to you know, frustrating experiences with Crouton folks withclients, with with your with your reps and I idiale, and being able to kind ofmaintain that minority still Gerebat, but to maintain a now thinking capacity, while you're inthose situations is really important. So I think there's a lot of learning.You can do about yourself. That prepares you actually really well to bea manager, even if you don't have all the specific tools in your tool beltyet yeah. I love that some of those are really difficult questions to askpeople. You know what are my blinds, but over my triggers. I remember doingan exercise back in the day where I asked. I think I was about seenery ofmy friends, three of my good qualities and three of my bad politics that, as aas that, they are interesting exercises. It's certainly one of the most. I thinkhelpful, impactful things that that I have done because you'll, be you bequite surprised, you know and won when they all and that you know in aninteresting tactic that I employed and still I don't do it every day, but Iwas doing it every day. At just pick off was keeping a manager Journal andabout ten minutes at the end of each work day, I would kind of run throughthe interactions I had at the meetings I had, and you know what did frustrateme during the day. What were interactions that I wanted to go better or areas where it's like ayou know. I S in a one on with Scott and I wanted to take more of a coachingapproach, but I ended up just telling him what to do. Instead of you knowdoing a tougher kind of coaching route, those kind of things really help me tohell up that awareness. I like that, a lot, that's a great, a great, a yeahplus you can yeah, and I imagine you can put in a couple of notes that maybeyou can relate to next time, you're talking to them and and things you canpick up to show that you're, leaning in and really the be car so being a super.It sounds like you're, very intentional, as a reader when you do have one on onetime. You know, but it's critical time right like were when so many kind ofgroup, Toms and stuff, but that one of e one time is so so important. I founda lot of newer managers or people again then we're just never really trainedcome and just freeze it out. Then you know you got half an hour and what doyou want to talk about? Do you have a framework that you work off when you'retypically doing a one on one? That's a great question. I wish I had a betterone. I will say we do devote intentional time once a week to some ofthese mansor training topics. Once a quarter. We have developmentconversations twice a year. We have the review conversations. I personallycould get much better at the one on one time at times I've thrown in a solidframework and then we deviate from it, because maybe something happened and wewanted to dive into that topic or you know really excited about something inthe pipeline and we we go. You know rabbit holding on that. So I can say,that's definitely an area of improvement for you, but it's somethingI would like to get better at. I was...

...listening to a recent podcast. I ferforget which one it was, but the head of mid market seals at Amazon was onand she for the whole time only talked about. I think it was forty fiveminutes just talking about how she runs her Lona ones, what she wants to getfrom it, and I was like yes that is. That is what I need to do, and you knowfor a short time. They had an email before, like hey here's. The topics fora cover, in addition to these standard ones and then afterwards and shareaction items and a wadding to us, are going to own. I kin away from thathabit. I it's a recommended habit that I do not follow, but I think aligningon topics I had a time and then really importantly handing action items, andmaybe it's making your oulong one one. Fifty minutes you have time at the endto say: Hey, you're, owning these two things, I'm owning these three thingshere when we're going to get them done. I think that is really really important.I got away from it, but that is something I am going to tell myself asrecommendation yeah, I, like it formulis nerves outthere. You know they're clicked on this one. I imagine many of them areindividual contributors trying to go into management. How would you coachthem to let's say you're there, their boss? Howwould you coach them to bubble that you know? Does that something that youshould be like telling people in the interview like is this day? One is thisNell put your head down, get results then. Come to me once you're pressingit, how do you approach that initial conversation that can sometimes bebedone? Maybe you're just a college. You just got this job. You love thisjob, you don't want to, like you know, get money to water or whatever it maybe, yeah great question and I'm personally fan of as early as possible,raise your hand and you kind of raise your hands so that people know- and Ithink not just to your now direct manager but to folks in otherdepartments who you are friends with and others were your cross. Functionalrelationships become so important. Obviously, is that I see you being onthose Consumpta folks, but some manager, you really you know your communicationrelationship with these folks is really important, so someone folks and othersales channels or on the department it's like, and this kind of what I wantto Bild towards, and maybe that's an informal in Tibo grabbing coffee with amanager and another channel to kind of pick their brain about management. Ihad it twice in my pasty: hired managers for other sales channels tojoin my sale to as a manager, and I wouldn't have known they wanted to bemanagers must, unless they made that note, you know so reason the hand butalso saying like, and maybe there's a set framework at your company fortypically a someone's in the role for two years for Tymor, Hey, it's a youknow four five year path, I think understanding what that path is andsaying: Hey I'd like to when this you know becomes available, make that knownand early and then just taken the approach of you know. What do I need todo and getting it an understanding what that time line is is really important.Maybe the first step is just going from a to senior a and you're going to focuson that, but I always love knowing where people's interests are ahead oftime and then, while you're along that path, yes crush your role, and so youknow make yourself as prepared as possible. Some things I was mentionedreally look for ways to present yourself in that light, and it can beas easy as Sharing Best Practices via slack checking in with the new employee.There's little things like even an accurate forecast that you know,managers and ICES are an eternal battle about. You know just little things likethat, you can present yourself as someone who's ready for that challengewhen it opens up, because I often find to the manager Al opportunities comeout quite suddenly. Typically, sales words are and you were going to createan entire leading team. Here we o you an extra manager head at civically hatthis manders when o Boston, or you know that there's something like that theycome up quite suddenly. In my experience, I you want to lay at basefirst yeah, I, like it yeah, almost being always ready, and some of you ohighlight there is like yes make your intentions now, and I agree with youthat I, the sooner the better you know...

...day one. If that's your intention,there's nothing wrong with letting people know that. That's your yourintention, but also having the self awareness to know what it typicallylooks like to get there and no one likes someone who's like looking pasttheir world too much right. If we have that self war and stuff like im inacross this, I know this is where I ent right now, but that's the vision I Iwant to get to and also I love. This idea start mingling with other managers andother departments. That's going to help down the line and managing people asmanaging people, whether you're managing engineer for sales, peoplethere's a lot of red threads throughout it, and you can probably learn a ton byhow someone's managing a group of engineers versus sales people and youprobably take some of those learnings and and apply it it cause. I like thatone of the last things I wanted to talk about- and I don't know if this issomething I know it was different for me. When Igot into like a a leadership position, sales people were lucky that weactually get a decent amount of prayers when we're doing well right. When youhit your your number you're celebrated, you get your hearing member you Goin toPresident's Club. It is a PAT people on the back profession because it's areally hard one. So it's median as soon as you jump into management like thefire out, you go the less pass on the back, you get and it can be kind ofGarin. You know and no one wants to work for work under the manager orleader who wants means praise right. You should be pushing all of the thepraise down to your team, a D D. do you agree with it with that? Would you haveyou found that to be true? And how do you prepare for people? How do yourecognize leaders at Quantas toping through how book of that? So I thinkit's sometimes an overlooked thing when people are timing, the leadership by Oh,absolutely- and I'm so glad you brought that up, because it is a really in to stay challenge. You knowyou can't look at me in your an a at the end of the day. It's like I made.My thirty calls. I advanced this in bygone stage and there's really none ofthose really concrete wins. Yes, you might have played a close roll in adeal that closed. Your team might have hit goal, but it is, as you mentioned,it really is an individual ital tributor accomplishment, one of thebest ways I heard this described, Maridian article that talked aboutlevel five leadership and the concept was, you know when things are goingreally. Well, you are a window, and you are you know the CFO says: Hey yourchannel to Brad you're like no, it was you know, Jaran Susan and you knowyou're distributing praise. It's like. Oh, you know just you know slice rightout yet, but when things are going bad, you're a mirror and it's like yeah.That was me. You know buck stops here, and I really do think that is reallysage advice. I buy end of that really completely, and that is a tough partabout being a leader and that's one of the tough things about you really highachieving as who don't quite understand all the challenges and no one reallyunderstands all the Halles are Happenin to management, but that can be one ofthe most jar when you are used to getting all the accolades and suddenlyknow it's clear who close that deal and is something that is, is an adjustmentperiod and my advice to managers would be to look for wins where you can, andthis plays into kind of emotional intelligence aspect is from a managerjournal Perspective is something that that I employed that other people canit's like. Okay, we, what was the win for today? Maybe you've been coaching,someone on Howe, really effective emails and they had to great emailsthat you might not have even had praise them for it, but you noticed it insales and gate for the pot for be like you know what he, those were two GreatEnos Hey is my coaching kind of shining through there. Maybe one of your repsstood up at the all hands and delivered a really effective presentation andthey had been struggling with. You know...

...the public speaking a lot of these arethey're tough to spot, sometimes because, as you mentions, got no one'sgoing to come to and say, Hey did a great job coach, one of those emails.You know as much as your director or your C ro might think that you're doinga great job. That's not always forthcoming, and it's not alwaysverbalized, and you know it doesn't get highlighted as much. So I would say.Look for the winds where you can think about where you applied your coachingefforts and what you've been talking about your team with and look at thosewins that might be reflections of the resources efforts. You've been puttingforth, you can kind of celebrate those privately and you know hold on of thoseor you are you know, storing those up for when you're doing a review withyour manager. Talking about your growth as a manager you can, you can highlightthose things. Kind of your internal manager is MES, you're, building andgrowing, but you're absolutely right. That is an adjustment period and that'ssomething that the manager should be prepared for. I really like that thatanalogy Ian heard that one before e the window when things are going well andin there when things are not going so well than I like this idea of writing awinds down in a manager journal, so I think I've done probably the last fiveyears as I have a little champion folder. I call out on my desk top andany like just good eternal feedback winds, whatever I'll just do a quickscreen shot not thrown in that champion. Folder Buch is similar to kind of youryour manage your journal, and I find it is good. A internal reviews, like youmentioned, and be far having an off day or feeling just like no feeling it it'sgreat to just go through there and her okay. There's there's incredible so sohe's been a great conversation before we go to kind of talking about some ofthe key takeaways and things we want to highlight. Is there anything that wethat we miss that you want to highlight in this round yeah? I think that thefinal thing that was coming to mind for me, as I was thinking about this- issourcing feedback and the value of that feedback. It is really tough to getfeedback from your direct reports. Some companies have a formal three. Six yearview system. We had a manager feedback survey, early Holland when I was amanager and one of the one of the first pieces of feedback I got was anonymous.Fightin was that one of my rents told me that I was mechanicallycompassionate, and you know I just like that. I listened but but like I wastrying to express that I cared, but that I really didn't and as devastatingas it was to hear it was such valuable feedback for me to really refocus myattention along that emotional intelligence aspect, to really thinkreally hard about how I related to my reps and and how what my relationshipshould be with them. There was so much value there, and so especially early onS, a manager. It is tough to get that feedback being absolutely need tosource it. So managers might have a a framework such as hey. You know what isone thing I'm doing. Well, one thing I should stop doing, and one thing Ishould start doing. You know whatever that works. You know for you eitherwith your team or the organizational level, absolutely encouraged that itcan again it's going to be tough, but it's kind of pushing it in a reallygood position. Moving forward, I like to feedback is it's huge and I feellike there's more toming and technology coming out inthat field. That makes it easier to collect that. It's all like anonymizedpeople feel more more comfortable symtims. You can even do it in likereal time like right after the one on one and stuff. I like that, a lot. It'sa a good call up all right least thirty minutes always fly by never sease to toamaze me how quickly they go particular when the conversations going so well,but people are busy and a lot of people win those in a podcast they're, theirmultitasking. If they're doing like me, you know they got a few things going on,maybe they're working out Tom for a walk clearing their head. If peopleforget everything of the last thirty minutes and just remember three things,what would you like those wee things to be yeah, I listen to podcast, let likeyou do. I got to get a million things...

...going to so for the new or aspiringmanagers out there. It is really difficult to prepare yourself for a manager rolejust by thinking about pay. What are these tools that I need? I personallywould focus on emotional intelligence, getting to know yourself as strongly aspossible how you learn and grow what your motivations and challenges are.That will help provide a really good base for you as a manager. I don'treally just professionally the second piece of advice. I think one of thoseimportant things we talked about manager winds are extremely hard tocome by looking for ways to recognize those winds yourself, finding the goodthat you're doing and recognizing those wands a really important skill to haveas as a manager in something you should practice daily. Weekly and then thethird thing, formal, breadline managerial training- that's tough tocome by and it's tough to find out there, especially without you know,investing in a maybe a large class or a repining resource, so use the peoplearound you source, an informal network at work. There are a ton of managers atYour Company and, as you mentioned, Scott, they can be in finance orengineering or other sales channels. There is managerial knowledge allaround and when we done at podcast is we meet weekly and just chat amongstourselves? None of us are, you know, professors were all you know justmanagers trying to get better in a craft. You can source that in turnnetwork and then learn a tone from it as well. A lot of o the are anexcellent three, the the first on the e, so incredibly important I'll underscorethat one, if you focus on personal growth as much as you fotis,some professional growth, that they almost need to grow in in tandem ormaybe even personal grote, to come before a professional growth as as youas you, become a leaguer. If Thats on taking care of it starts to show so o oo, that's awesome. Well, Toi. Thank you! So much man. I got a page full of crazynotes on that one, but that was a lot of fun and to all the listeners thanksmuch bring now with us see. This was another episode of the Sales Engagementpodcast to help this get in front of more eyes and ears. Please leave us ashining five star work. You Join US at sales engagement com for new episodes,resources in the book on sales engagement to get the most out of yoursales engagement strategy, make sure to check out out reached Lio. The leadingsales engagement platform see you on the next episode a.

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