The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 11 months ago

Saving 200 Hours w/ A Button Change: A Conversation Around Automation


Whether by fear of change or ignorance to opportunity, automation isn’t always top of mind for many organizations. But, when speed is the name of the game, you can’t afford to not have an eye out at all times for ways to automate your business.

Still not convinced? We speak with an expert of automation, David Gauld, Sales Operations Lead at CTS. He walks us through his strategies and why fixing time sinks may be the single most important thing you can do to enable your teams.

We talk all about:

- Tips for companies moving into the glow-up stage

- How to have data-driven conversations within your organization

- Creating more productivity through the work week with mindset shift

- Understanding why to prioritize automation

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

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Welcome to the sales engagement podcast. This podcast is brought to you by outreach, the leading sales engagement platform, and they just launched outreach on outreach, the place to learn how outreach well does outreach? Learn how the team follows up with every lead in record time after virtual events and turns them into revenue. You can also see how outreach runs account based plays, manages reps and so much more using their own sales engagement platform. Everything is backed by data pulled from outreach processes and customer base. When you're done, you'll be able to do it as good as they do. Head to outreach that io on outreach to see what they have going on. Now let's get into today's episode. Welcome all to the sales engagement podcast. This is Caitlin Kelly, your post for the Amia region here at outreach, also senior sales evolopment leader for the AMA region. And today we have David Gold joining us, who is sales offs leader over at cloud technology solutions. You were excited to be talking to you today, David, around all things about automating yourself out of a role like gave. It is pleasure to be here, pleasure to talk to you and really excited about just having a conversation, shooting some stuff and making sure the hopefully you can get something this as much as anyone else who's been kind enough to lend their ears to as well. Yes, I'm excited to kind of dive into this is. You do have quite a unique career path that's led you up to where you are today. Can you tell us a little bit about that, like where you started in how you got to the role that you're in now? Yeah, absolutely, and thank for asking. So I guess. Wait, I am from where I started. I came to operation, sales operations. I came from sales itself, and I guess the paths tend to be either from sales, from a technical or financial background in terms of either concern finance or text act background, when someone comes in through sales force administration, for example. But I rolled in with the empathy of a seller from a sales team, given that I started after having done drama as an Undergrad, believe it or not, moved into hospitality and then to sales, ultimately stomping the pavements and door to door, and then realize the you know, consultancy selling and technical selling and online selling was the way. I wanted to move to company which was Sass accountancy firm, and was the first non directive employee of that company. So, you know, unwittingly doing the administrative and operational side of sales whilst also performing the sales rule itself. Decade of growth and time later and you know, operations have moved into enablement. I had been training to sell Olor is the team that had grown up. I was supporting two thousand and twenty five quarter carriers at the time... all points of on boarding, through the beer, youth, light deck and the you know, the reporting upward. Noteword, many twists and turns in that company, which was really the the shaping of me personally. Free agents the name of the company. There I was invited to go and work with a proserve company largely, which was a real industry switch for me and that was, you know, shoot me to the core in a three weeks and I was almost in tears over done, but actually sort of a make sure that you keep your skill sharp and I was able to thrive in the environment and then since obviously on to cts where I've been invited to to help them build what was perhaps more established elsewhere, but to form it for a company which is much more in its sort of glow up stage. You know, it's no longer start up. It's in that adolescence where they have realized that they really need to sort of Batton down the hatches and improve all of the great energy and processes that they've got maybe bring some things in as well. academically speaking, I completed an MBA in two thousand and sixteen, after a number of years of having been in business. I graduated with my first born in my arms. But again, yeah, you know, prior to that I'd studied drama as an Undergrad and you know, I wasn't particularly focused in high school, but when I found a subject that I was interested and doubled down on it, you know, made sure that I was able to walk out with the with the honors of first and it really is that aptitude to analysis and critical thinking. Hell, I could have studied basket weaving right, the subject matter doesn't matter. It's about that ability to think and to scratch past the surface and, you know, a couple of lessons in there that hopefully I can I can talk to as well. That's amazing. I had no idea that you study the drama. I actually started out with studying fashion. So yeah, there you go. You never know where you're going to end up, right, as long as you love what you're doing, right, so long as you love what you do exactly. So you've had an amazing career progression and kind of learned the learning a lot along the way that you've been able to develop from starting with a company that had a little bit more structured and kind of processes and place to jumping into that glow up stage. HMM, I'd be curious to know. You know, what are three things that you wish you would have known moving into that glow up stage as you kind of continue to build it an adolescent? Yeah, and it's about prioritization of the importance. Right. I mean this isn't one of those things, but prioritization is its massive you know, there are so many things that we can do. It's about what we choose to do that's important. And speaking to that, I guess the first of those three things, I'd say what I wish I had known. I wish I knew that data has no rank, but it has ultimate authority. So you have to get comfortable with with challenging your own opinions and validating your assumptions. You have to really...

...double down on your hard skills, be that your crm craft or your your lookoups and and spreadsheets or financial acumen. You know SAS reporting in annual recurring Revenue Monthlk, or you know you pro serve reporting if you're talking about velocity metrics. So it could what a lot we hours talking about the lost two metrics. But what do I mean by that? Rank and authority peaceful. So My dad was a pad day and the army is a minister and he told me a long time ago the his rank, his actual rank, was essentially deemed to be the same day as the person he was speaking with. So that could be an officer, it could be an UNCO could be a husband or a wife, whatever. And appreciating the delivery of your data narrative, as I've translated that into my life and my career. The the data additive is similar in the IT does have no rank, but it does have ultimately the ability to shape the decisions around you, and that's something you really have to be respectful of because it's incredibly powerful to either the way that a quarter ends, if we've overstated or understated, or, you know, if a fiscal year is going to begin, and how we shaped commission and the people that were going to hire. So I wish I had known that when I begin. You know, data has no rank, but it has ultimate authority. Yeah, I think that's extremely important. Today's environment too, is like, how are you making decisions leverage in the data that you have at hands? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, and I guess that the leads on to a second piece as well, which is about and I'm sure people talk about this all the time, and if they do, I'm delighted if they don't learn. Hey, I'm making history here, but MVP is always good enough. If you build something and it's it is viable, get it out. But if it's new reports, if it's work flows with them within the way that the sales process works, so long as everyone around you agrees with it, even if it's SCLETAL, get it out into people's hands, because I often find that I live up in this ivory tower of data right I have to get the stuff into people's hands so that they can they can take advantage of the things in front of them. You know, I recently had a sales up saying I've waited a number of years to to see sales force work for me rather than me working for it, and that was the delivery of a dashboard, which to me was an offhand to thing, but to them was revelationary. But similarly, this comes with a cautionary tail. If I don't get something out into someone's hands because I postulate, then the the worst thing that can happen does happen, which is shadow reporting. So that's someone who's saying, oh well, I'm just going to calculate my commission or I don't trust the data from your crm, so I'm going to basically rebuild it in my own image, you know, a way offline, whatever, and you start to get these deviations from the truth and you come to meeting, some people will why don't agree with that insight, and all of a sudden things start to fall apart. So it's really important. MPP is always good enough so long as it is biable product. You had mentioned something there...

...and kind of like so, people did essentially start doing shadow reporting and ultimately lead to probably causing up block in their ability to scale upsolutely. Don't have the accurate forecasting there completely not only not only that, you had mentioned about you know, your goal is like how do you do that data into an actionable way? What? What is some of the ways that you've been able to find that work for you to get it India rept hands so it is actionable for them they're able to work, work with it. Yeah, yeah, so I think the first thing, obviously, is we've got, you know, the old adage, two years, one, both you have to listen to every company's different. You know, the intricacies of a particular sales process differs from company A to company B and coming to it with an assumption that this is how a seal happens is wrong. You know, I I've been really fortunate to go through a few sales training processes, you know, formal training environments and you know you chat to pick those bits, but if you were to see I have gone through Sass Training Scheme, I've gone through, you know, a much more enterprise sales training scheme. Can name them, be shunt, but then you try and imply it to to enforce that upon another company without realizing the edge doesn't work. You start to try and play a template to a company which has you have to respect the individuality of the company and if you don't, then all of a sudden your reports that you build it again. I'm a sales force head, but if you if you don't respect the particular elements of how a sale is made, we include expert we exclude why? In terms of reporting, then everything is often is wrong. So you really have to listen, and it takes a lot of energy to listen to what people are saying and actually, oftentimes you have to you know, the golden phrase, I think, really is so what I'm hearing is and then I repeat back what I've heard. A two things happen. Yeah, no, this is what I mean, or yes, what I'm heating is healing. You See, is have to listen to what people are saying and then you can craft reports that will do with the company wants you to do. The allowing for your seniors, you see, sweet your still steam to be able to provide the reporting that they need to their seniors or pears as a reward and along to be treated as the adult that it is, as opposed to defending against child that it is not. So it is super important that you listen to what the company is needing, both at a tactical and a strategic level, but actually, in many respect most importantly, at the call face, at the at the operational level, called face, sorry that the operational level, because it's the sellers who will drive the profits. And I can very, very easy, silly and I do present two people a sales force L's on our self us a sales accuracy model. How much did we say we're going to close? How much did we close?...

What of we closed was inside of the forecasted amount? And if it's not great, that's beating people over the head with information. Instead, I would much rather, and I wasn't going to talk about this, but sadly I am, and I would much rather provide insights which are much more about sales enablement than pure sales operations, talking about commercial operations as a whole package. And the sales enablement to which I am head over heels in love with, is as a data mechanic. It's the sales velocity piece, which is for metrics. Everyone has them, everyone has in an not reporting it if you're not looking at sales velocity, especially for professional services, perhaps less so for for systems, but in terms of days to sell. Then you're looking at the wind rate, you're looking at the qualified number of opportunities, you're looking at the the sales price as well the average. Everyone has those things too hand. You take those three numbers, multiply them by one, by two, by three, and then divide them down by the days to close. Now that's an interesting thing because it tells you to speed at which revenues flowing through the pipeline. But, more interestingly, it gives you the ability to say and multiply that number by the days left in the fiscal is this person, is this team? Are we as a company going to hit target? And then, even more interestingly, is it allows for a data driven one to one's between a sales manager and the salesperson. Because if I come to you and you see you set as a terrible yeah, how do I fix it? But if I come to you instead and see here you're doing really well in the average sales price, but your days to close are really high, why is that? Could we help you qualify better? Or you don't have that many opportunities coming through the pipeline, but if we look at the source of them, they tend to actually, I'll be driven by you. Do we need to help the other departments in the company feed you more leads and so allows you. That can a diagnostic so it really is about how do we get out of this? You know, there's prison of our here's all the day to the vanity methics, the things which are going to help me feel superior about myself. You know that's useless. Let me get it into the person's hands. Let them, you know, be driven. You know the bumpers are up at the bowling alley. I can throw the ball down. It won't gut her ball, but I'll guide them to a better path so that they themselves can have these data driven conversations with their superiors, their superiors as a terrible word, apologize, but their line managers, to people who are report into, the people with the expedients who are in those positions. Their sales leads can give them the guidance of their expertise as well. So it's about empowering the sales leaders to be sales leaders, it's about empowering the people who are doing the sales to do those sales and it's about holding the board to have confidence in the numbers that are being spat upward by the team. All of that, we set back, we make sure that we've crafted it and we let the experts be the experts that they are. It really is just about getting ourselves out that I've Dat our get a data and to people's hands and let them turn into actionable insights. How do... do we do that? Lost in metrics is great, sales for stash boards are great. You know, changing the cadence of the commercial reporting from the leadership team. You know, recently we were looking at sprints, excuse me, and the sprint cycle for the leadership was about, you know, retrospectively looking at how the the week has gone. But that fabulous energy that people have in a room, the way that people are trouble shooting opportunities, well, let's just flip that into a forward narrative on a Monday so that the energy can roll through the week. You know, one of those very recent, that's a very recent, sort of within the past kind of six months, changes that I that I was looking to enforce, which is about let's just be much more proactive than retrospective, and it feels a simple thing but it takes a lot of it is one of those things. That allows for a team to be more engaged from its leadership and for the people who are engaged in the sales management to give the right information and insight to that leadership. So again, they can go to the board and gay where we know we're able to articulate or thinking in a way which is sympathetic with what the company's doing, but also it resonates with what the board needs to hear. The worst thing is that we go in and we go they know what we're going to do, don't know we're going ahead, don the numbers or, worse, we're going to guess you know, because that's not we want to be. Definitely. So you had you mentioned something there that was quite interesting. You know. Now so within the environment, within the LAT eighteen months, we've seen a lot of the selling environment changing. Companies are changing strategies, we're seeing a ship. You had mentioned the you know, levereting data, making sure that it's actionable and using the data to really drive the outcomes that you're looking to achieve. You had said to instead of having the medians on a Friday, you've made the shift to starting the week on Mondays with these medias. That it's more of a proactive approach. So the energy flow through. Is that what I is that right? That's good act. Yeah, making sure the people are able to act upon the things which they have front of mind. It sounds like such a simple thing. Spin cycles are incredibly useful, obviously from a technical delivery perspective, and sometimes sales teams want to align to that. And so it is completely understandable the having planning in retrospectives is a natural state for people to go to when they're perhaps a more technical environment, as it grew up into a much more commercially minded environment, that they may still have an I don't want to say the hangover of those things, but they may still have the resonance with those things. And so some processes which just naturally people fall into the groove of. It does just take an objective I to come in and since, you know what, this was fit for purpose and it is still good, but we can make it better. And by making it better we just need to make a simple change. We just need to do a slight gear shift. Instead of retrospectively looking at something less, let's look fat, let's start at the starts and let's bring everyone and make sure that people are agreeing with the data sets at the beginning. So I'm meeting doesn't start with people going I think it's two...

...million, I think it's two point five, I don't agree with your data source and then everything falls apart. Make sure that everyone's happy with the source data, to make sure that the information is in people's hands twenty four hours before they have to come to meeting. These are simple things, simple things, but far too often people are busy being productive. I'm not saying busy being busy, because busy being busy as a bad thing, but if you are actually busy being productive, you do just need that objective. I to come in and say, Hey, you know what, you're glorious, you're amazing at what you do. Let me be the cradle to the diamond. Let me support what you're doing so that we can make it even better. Let me take away those little detractions. Death by a thousand cuts, data in accuracies, inaccessible data reports, which I wish I had dashboards that, you know, would have changed my life had I only had it. If I can spend that time giving you those things so that you don't have to then spend ten minutes of your day. Steve Jobs talked about it. You know, if I can make your Mac start two seconds faster, I'm going to change the world, because how many people are opening a Mac? If I can make a sales person able to access a report which gives them at Ash Board, which gives them twenty, thirteen reports that are relevant to their day, again, making a crm work for them rather than the other way around. Well, that does is it means that the sales people are much more inclined to use the information repository, that data center, that Crm, so that I as a two weeks that he can get better information out for them. Yeah, it becomes this really virtuous cycle. You do more for me, I do more for you, and it's about making sure that everyone's happy doing it, because it's work for a reason, right. It's hard, right, so let's help each other make it easier, you know, let's just make sure that we're working together. And comes down to a lot of things that I've read, a lot of the the people I've engaged with and, similarly, the people that I've taken away from, the friends in business, the experts that I have been able to be lucky enough to learn from as well as maybe sounds a bit twee right, but you have to wake up every morning and go, what can I do today to make things a little bit better? No one wakes up in the morning says how can I how can I annoy Caitlin today? How can I frustrate her day? Yeah, know, you wake up in the morning you go what can I do to make things a little bit better? You focus on that, you do that and then all of a sudden your six months, you're a year, you're eighteen months later and you look back on your achievements as a team and you think, wow, there's no eye here right now. Have we progressed? And tracking what you're doing is important as well, making sure that you can articulate the best benefits that the company has gained from the team's expertise and that what you can attribute to that team being better as well, because the second you take yourself out of the equation, think about my customer.

My customer is the sales team, it's the sea sweet, it's the internal team. I'm one step removed from people who are customer facing, or rather who are the customer themselves, and so I have to look at the people who are in the company as my customer and I have to think about their needs first, because we are, and if we're not with outaly should be, but we are customer centric as a people, as an everything. Everyone should always be thinking about what was right for the customer, because nobody buys on my terms. They buy undern terms, and it's about facilitating those people who are selling to really respectfully allow those customers to buy on their own terms and it's about setting up the systems, processes, whatever it is, such that that person can help that sale move so that it's in line with whatever fiscal buying cycle that company makes or whatever. Yeah, there's a huge amount in their stake out. There so much in great information in there. We could dive into being customer center and kind of talk about high are able to enable your teams to do that. What I'd like to have to base on. There is you and mentions on. There's like, you know, your number one kind of driving velocity, and there is you'd said it. There is like how do I make this easier? Essentially, how do you automate this? How can I give people back time so they can actually focus on the customer and what is going to drive the outcomes and I know you have some experience in automating yourself out of a role, so I'd love you did just kind of talk us through all a love lighting myself. So so, at the end of the day, I'm an idiot. Right. What I do is I find the biggest fire I possibly can and I jump in. And a lot of people are hesitant to do that because they don't want to put themselves into the situations where there is tension, pressure, there is stress. I don't you know, the first real professional engagement I had I was a I was a data janitor. Right to roll up my sleeves, I had to go in AD to clean up the mess and I had to then shake hands with the CEO of the next business I was engaging with. You had to be all things to old people, but how that? So it's that attitude, that approach that I have that I've taken on board with the rest of my professional career, which is hey, where's the biggest fire, where can I jump in and what can I do? And free agent, you know, there are tools which can do this, but a free agent. One of the things was we had the SDRs who were sending our Barner play agreements to accountcy practices, who would then reset the software and the way that those border play agreements were put together was did manually write them that those are template with the populate, the details. They would get that document reviewed by there are serious lead they would then come through to to myself and the OPPS team that we had. We would issue the agreement, the agreement to come back in. We administrator. So we would administrate it. We can get it into the crm make sure it was close. So altogether you maybe had, for sometimes six people. I had to get reviewed because pricing spending,...

...let's say fifteen minutes of time. And so if that's six or four people spending all that time on one boiler plate agreement and FN SDR sending out, maybe add know, let's say it, let's be really conservative, for agreements a month, right, so the course of a year that's twelve. If you multiply that by six s drs, if you then add in six account manager, six business development managers on the road, let's see, for example, there are two hundred agreements going out in a company every year. That a boiler plate standard for companies that want to engage with you, and that's for people spending at least fifteen minutes of time on those agreements making sure that the right being super conservative. Now, one of the things that on my sort of Swan Swan Song as I was leaving the company, I worked with Chap who is responsible for drip, which was the email engagement tool, and the chap woos, our sales force admin. We spoke about the issue that there was that that I could see, but nobody really recognized a as a bit of a problem. Took two weeks to get the technical work done, which was to get the SDRs to have a button in sales forth they could press which said send agreement. That's simple. What that did was it kicked off a job that sucked out the information from the crm on the account of practice details, spat into the drip email marketing tool, sent it to the Accountant, they timestamp signed it, then spat a job back into drip which then fed back into sales force. Done one button, two hundred hours. If we think about that, conservative peace. I then didn't have to administer the issue of those agreements. I didn't need to do that anymore. Now there are tools which can automate that you know, Cong and sales force and so on. It was echo sign, the DOCU sign we're using at the time, that the tooling doesn't matter. It's about finding something, it's about seeing something that may or may not be a time sink and insidious little time thief, recognizing it as an issue and then helping to move that out of the way. Now, by virtue of doing that, I'd effectively made myself redundant, fantastic from that particular thing. I can then go and find another fire, another problem over here. I'll go on form solve that thing. That might not work, it might work, but if I can say, do you know what my I as I spid farewell to the company, I gift you back two hundred hours worth of work that you can reinvest into the company. You know, at the more recent company, or was that? I was running the Commission for seventy five quarter carriers and I did it in a worksheet. Believe it or not, you know, bumping into five million cells in Google sheets as when you're like, Oh, maybe I should be using a different tool, but the the but the thing is there. I was basically dedicating my time almost exclusively to running commission for a company and I immediately recognized, as as other people did, when I was like this is an issue, the bottleneck that that caused. And so we had to bring in a tool, a much larger tool, to be able to sit...

...inside of sales force exactly the too, to be able to democratize the commission built and to make sure that multiple hands could get into it that would authorized to write the issues, or that not the issue, the rules that allowed for the comp to be calculated properly. Now that was great for a company that size which had that need, and then I didn't need to do a commission there anymore. As I could. I'll go and solve the next problem. As you know, invited to go and work elsewhere and again a sort of glow up environment where these processes just simply don't exist. And it's about taking all of those component parts, the smaller company requirements, the larger company requirements, and applying the best fit to what the needs of the company are. Now, because people see what a sales operations and I go, well, what does a company need? Right, that's what the operations will provide and then we will put together the big picture of the snake that's forever eating its tails. The big rocks that we have on. How do we make the company better? And it's not about I'll do it for a year or two. It's about getting right under the skin of the company, seeing what the problems are, and they may not even be problems yere, but anticipating what those problems might be coming down the world. Are We setting ourselves downstream? We're setting ourselves up for failure. How do we mitigate that? What do we need to do? Is a complant set up so that it motivates the sales team the right way? Do we understand what our bench reporting is on our teams so that we know that the sellers are incentivized to sell particular things, so that our current staffing is constantly engaged? Do we have the right spiffs in place, the special incentive fun for for fast activity, and so on? These are things which you pick up and you just have to make sure that every little part of the company is into connect it. The right arm speaks to the left and when you've got that great go find the next problem, solve that or go find something which people don't recognize as a problem and help them make what they're doing better. Yeah, heading that that is some part in there is having that constant reflection and not being afraid to dive into the fire and change things. The worst possible thing is it if you steer away from it and like, as you mentioned, it was that one change of the button that saved almost two hundred hours. Nobody identified it as a problem. You're like, wait, there's a some fair way to do this. Most dangerous frae world is. This is hope. We've always done it. Yeah, using that as a justification terrible thing. But yeah, people are afraid to change, you know, and being a change agent is not about activating the change itself. It's about managing people's expectations and their ability to come on board the journey with you. Because I could craft the best's the autumn process in the world, not tell a single person about it, launch it. We met with the resistance of the most influential seller and the sales team and then all of a sudden all of the great work I've done falls apart. Yeah, but you know, these things unless you engage with the people who are at the ground floor. Again, that idea of...

I casually provided a sales dashboards to the leadership. I then replicated it and stripped out the bits which were not relevant for the sellers to see. One of them said to me, I've been waiting for years for this kind of insight. Years and simple things. Can you hook something up to the horizontal navigation of the system that you're in all the time, so that when you log in, you go to Yash he'd all my reports. This is my estate, these are the things I'm selling. It's all about me to the sum, because the faster you can qualify things, the fast you can get things out, the quicker we're going to get more money into the company, you know, and the better the company performs, the more people that we can hire. The more people that we hire, the better quality of life that other people have. And isn't that just a wonderful thing? Let's let's make everything better for people. And again, it sounds really tweet, but you said, what is it that drives me in the morning? What is it that gets me going? What do you need to do in your life? What do you want? The second I know what your weirdness is, not that you are weird, but the second I know what was going on in your life. Yeah, I can help you get there, and it's data that's going to help you get there. The more that we can push toward a common goal, of common ground, I'm in. I love that fastening. Thank you so much, David, for sharing a load of insight today from the three things you wish you would have known, coming from structure into the glow up, how to really manage that all the way Thereo, as well as automating yourself out of a role to ensure that your teams have the speed and the effectiveness to be efficient to reach the goals that they use that for themselves. Lastly, I have one more question for you before you wrap things up. Is If you had to choose one book or podcast or any of that the biggest impact on your professional development, what would that one book be? Go one better. I'll give you a book and I will give you a small, twelve minute video. It's you think. I might just have books lying at my desk and to get tongues of them. I've got tongues of all right, lency owners a Buch honestly, Uh Huh, silence. Start with. Why? Right, everyone who has read it will agree it's good. Again, I talked about twe sometimes it is, but I would highly recommend the twelve minute video ted talk. Good leaders make you feel safe. Good leaders, dude, articulation of all of the things that you already know in a way that when you finished watching it, and twelve minutes of your life is not a very long time. M Good leaders make you feel safe. Simon Senec Ted talk, finish this. Simon Senex conversation is fabulous. What okay, fantastic. Well, thank you so much for both of those. Definitely gonna have to look at that. Ted Talk. And David, if any of our listeners wanted to reach out to you and, you know, dive into a couple of things that you've actually touched base on today, where's the best place for them to do that? I can get me on Linkedin just by my name. I'm on trust. Just add David Gold. Yeah, I'm with CTS. You can you can contact with...

David dog gold, CTS. Dont cool CEO. Be Delighted to talk to anyone, really delighted and to learn from people as well us as a big thing from me. So fano one is interested and shooting stuff with me. Personally. I'm, you know, an avid and I have a vacious appetite for for knowledge. I'm an avid learner. I think that's one of the best ways to approach things is just to constantly have mind open. So yeah, we delight to defend one reaches out amazing well. Thank you so much, and you guys pretty here first on the sales engagement podcast. Have a fantastic day, sid care. This was another episode of the sales engagement podcast. To help this get in front of more eyes and ears, please leave us a shining five star review. Join US at sales engagementcom for new episodes. Resources in the book on sales engagement to get the most out of your sales engagement strategy. Make sure to check out outreach, that I oh, the leading sales engagement platform. See you on the next episode.

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