The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 4 months ago

How to Turn Automation Into Your Competitive Advantage


We’re digging into the myth that AEs (or other revenue roles) don’t need automation.

Spoiler alert: They really do.

In this episode, I interview Justin Michael , Co-Founder at HYPCCCYCL , about his automation tools lightbulb moment and how he sparks that recognition in others.

In this episode we discuss:

How the scalability of automation validates your process

Why automation gives you the gift of time

What to do to stay organized on the automated touches

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

Tech-Powered Sales by Justin Michael 

Combo Prospecting by Tony J. Hughe s

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts , on Spotify , or on our website .

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Sales Engagement

in your favorite podcast player.

Welcome to the sales engagement a podcast. This podcast is brought you by outreach, the leading sales engagement platform, andthey just launched outreach on outreach, the place to learn how outreach welldoes outreach learn how the team follows up with every lead in record time aftervirtual events and turns them into revenue. You can also see how outreach runsaccount based plays, manages reps and so much more using their own sales engagementplatform. Everything is backed by data pulled from outreach processes and customer base.When you're done, you'll be able to do it as good as they do. Had to outreach. Do Io on outreach to see what they have goingon. Now let's get into today's episode. Hello and welcome back everyone to thesales engagement podcast. Thank you, as always, for hanging out withus. Don't take it lightly that you decided to lend us your ear drumsfor the next thirty minutes, but this should be a fun one. Veryexcited for this. I am joined by Justin, Michael. We could goahead and say Mr Sales engagement himself Justin. Welcome with yeah, thanks for havingme on the show. I do have a love for stales engagement platforms. Some call them sequencers, but yeah, I would call myself a power userof outreach and I'm excited to kind of get more people using these platformsin a humane way. You know, that's that's the key to do it. Start away and I want to quickly go into your background a little bit. But those listeners who are joining us, I just want to kind of setthe stage. So Jackson and I have decided to do a little miniseries within the podcast to probably be about three, three, maybe four episodestogether, and what we're going to do is we're going to try and tacklea few sales engagement myths, or sales technology MIPS really, and we're goingto look at them through a few different lenses and and from a few differentways. So going to be fun. But before we get there, Justin, I always like to ask this question provide some contacts for those who maybedon't know you. What is that Superhero origin story, Mr Justin, Michael? Yeah, so I think the best thing I could reveal is that Istarted out as an average rep, you know, before str even existed.I was just like inside sales. I was on a phone, a voicephone. I thought was pretty cool is like a you know, voice overIp phone. When I was two thousand five hundred and twenty six and youknow, I used to take the the phone home with me on days offand I used to call it like four am so that I could do theseven east coast shift. And so for me, I think that love ofthe phone and just having no tech in the beginning except my little void phone. I mean now when I get to use these, you know, parallelis just too dialers like connecting cell and I get to use these really advancedautomation tools or in ten I just I think I have a certain gratitude forhaving it because I had to make a miracle. Happened with just the phone. Like I don't think Gmail was even a thing. I think it waslike way back in the day. So I'm forty one, I've been sellingfor twenty years and still this day I still pick up the phone. So, you know, I love the text tax. I came out of graphicdesign and music recording. There's just actually talking to a team today about that. Some of these platforms, even ten twenty years ago, like pro toolsand photoshop, final cut pro, they were really hard to use and sowhen you sit in a system like an outreach or a connected cell. Thisstuff is, you know, it's intuitive. You know, back in the day, like early Photoshop, there was like, you know, twenty twosteps to make a filter and then you'd have to wait for fifteen minutes onyour tower computer for it to process and then you'd have to wait and doit again and so like hours just to get the thing to look right.So it's all that gratitude for what the tech can actually do. It's allpretty sophisticated if we just roll back the clock ten years. I love it. Man. I often talked about that...

...when my you know, talking toyounger, you know, Bedr people that want to get into TAC of likehey, what are some some tips? And often my tip is go deepand wide. So deep into an industry and wide in terms of skill set. And when I say Whye, in terms of skill set and like.It's actually pretty easy these days to go and learn a canva and I movieand then all of a sudden you can create all this beautiful looking collateral yourself. You can create a little movie and and two people like outsiders who haven'ttaken the Sunday afternoon to learn this one tool and literally will take you oneafternoon or less. They think it's like amazing and they're sitting at I wow, like that person can create these these movies and this stuff and it's it'sunbelievably simple and just getting easier. So you can leverage this pieces of technologyto get far ahead quickly. I also love what you said around part ofyour love of technology comes from a place of not having it right, andI've also wrestled with this thought, which I would love your opinion on.Of It would be an interesting experiment to have your new bedrs A, e'swhatever not get to use sales technology for like the first two months and thengive it to them. You maybe will take an efficiency hit, but thenthey're going to learn the process correctly, they're going to learn, you know, how difficult it can be, and then when you give it to themthey'll fully embrace it, because we kind of an adoption problem sometimes within salessec and I think that would take your way. What do you think aboutthat Botox from? Yeah, so it's interesting. So, oh my gosh, I'm a published author now and I almost feel like it's like a foregoneconclusion, like a cliche right, because there's like six thousand sales books,which is cool. I got there because I was part of a book calledCombo prospecting with Tony j Hughes, and the whole thesis of that book islike the mcguiver. It's like you are at a company where they won't buyyou the text act, and I love MC guiver because like us, atoothpick and a grappling, you know, umbrella, and he like hot wiresand nuclear sub or something insane, like he breaks into a helicopter with abobby pan or something, you know. And so I feel like reps arelike, well, the text acts great, but you know, I can't affordthat or we don't have the enable and budget. And then that's theexcuse, like I'm not hitting my number because, well, our competitor getsto use fill in the blank of Gong or course or something, whatever theexcuse is. Yeah, so to me I actually believe in that scalability ofautomation is a proof point of the manual process. What board your process?Define your ICP, your personas, your emails, and then test them oneat a time. Sending a Gmail now, if you're going to send fifty personalizedrelevant gmails and you can't get one to convert, maybe that's not anemail you want to send. You know, thousands of or if you're doing acertain voice mail or a certain linkedin approach and and nothing's working, youknow maybe the targeting is off, the messages off. If you can proveit out in the microcose, I'm in a small scale, then it's reallyexciting to take in a sequencer. So even on really complicated campaigns I holda lot of the prospects back senior people sea levels and do it manually,hyper personalize and then I look for manual Ab tests to then take to automation. This phone scripts working great. I mean I'm could dialing lead IQ andI'm getting cell phones and it's keeping people on the phone, it's converting intomeetings. Good. Now let's call six phone numbers at a time. Let'sdo two hundred dollars and two hours. But if you're going to just startdialing and having live conversations and you don't know your sales story, you don'thave your button rebuttals down, you don't write, you can be caught flatfoot and what's the point? So yeah, yeah, I like it. Sokind of prove it out manually before you add rock of fuel to theto the situation, which seems like an obvious concept, but many don't dothat. You know, they'll buy the... Don't get quote Unquote,tool drunk and just go for it. So I like that, that lineof thinking. All right, let's side into it. Yeah, I knowwe have a limited amount of time. We want to talk about myths,Desin, and what myth do you want to talk about first? Well,I think one of the things to kick the series off is the myth thata EA's don't need automation. And I think you know, obviously with whereyou are, part of that automation is email automation. And I'm just talkingabout like feel a he's prior to the pandemic. It's like it was.It was great. I mean it was a gravy train. We had somany events. Like I was a VPS sales I'd fur vents a year.I got to flood in New York, to Chicago, to Vegas and thetake these events, and I've just met all my prospects in person. Sothat's already a flood. Then at my rollodecks on Linkedin. Then I haveinbound so like I just didn't really need the volume to go sequence email,like the strs could take care of this. I'm really just profiling the myth.It's even I saw it right, or I didn't have to enough timebecause I was in midfunnel. than closing motions and creating decks and proposals.Like a he's are doing great work. It's very customized. It's not easyand once they've been into company for six months to two years, they havedozens of warm opportunities, are progressing and it's a lot of hours. Sothey have to make time to process quick and way do that they can bestrategic one at a time, network focus, event focus, and they often thinkthat these automation technologies are not necessary. That's the myth I want to pokeinto today. What are your thoughts? Where to begin? And I lovethis I've met because I think it's been it's one that's been around since, I think, sales engagements in section even even, I would say,before that. I feel like you know, there was always a class, evenwhen we're talking like crm, there was a class between a he's andwhatever technology, because there's this underline thinking of I know what I'm doing,I got this, I've been doing this, you know, a long time.I bring in revenue. Leave me alone. I don't need this technologything. So I think it's a great one to start with, and Iguess I my first question is, why do you think this myth exists inthe first place? Is it just that? Is it what we've are? Alwaysdone it this way and it's worked for me so far. It's interestingbecause the bridge group study finds that forty percent of STRs roll up to marketingin sixty percent of sales. And I met with this company recently in LaI'm in Santa Barbara, little north, and he is running this enterprise teamtens of million and run rate and everyone is teams twenty years experience. He'slike, don't talk to me about blasting email. That's the man Jen.I have a headed to man Jin. I've got to see ours. GoTalk to that team. And that really showed it to me. These there'sthis fear of like, the more senior people they've got it, they're justgoing to make calls. But the problem is you just have to look atthe stats and the analysis. A hundred calls in the enterprise, you mightget three humans to pick up. They're probably executive assistance. So it cantake, you know, to do a hundred like call a dials like thatcould take an eight hour day. It could take at least a few hoursand maybe they don't have the time. So yeah, so that's how I'veseen the myth and I challenge them because if you can start to have ascalable, predictable sequence of touches, it actually gives you time. So,you know, I was working with a company and we first went manually justto set up a sequence and test these touches and then, once it wasworking, skilled it. And now this guy suddenly has all this pipeline,no pipeline coming out of of covid now he's got, you know, fourteenopportunities. He's working and what is he doing? He's working his opportunities andtaking more meetings and he's got the sequencer, the sales engagement platform, running inthe background and he trusts it because he knows it's going to set.And that's the beauty is he's now automated this piece. So instead of havingto do two or three hours of prospecting a day. It's just running inthe background generating meetings. It sounds too...

...easy, but remember the non easypart, which was the five hours to chop down a tree. Spend thefirst four hour sharpening. Actually, Gabraham Lincoln Right, measure twice, cutonce. So like it's not you just, you know, buy something like outreach, plug in and boom it gets meetings. That's the other myth,that's the other problematic like they get it for the whole team. Nobody usesit. It didn't happen because you have to invest in it, just likeany tool. So that's how I would kind of poke into the myth isit's the opposite way and the amount of training, like you do like auniversity, like outreach university. It's like you said, you take one Sundayto learn it. I have this experience recently and where I brought one ofthese platforms into a Tech Company and the veteran seller who had been selling fortwenty years, would never done automation, took to it like a duck towater. And you know, he went through like the training and he setup some sequences and he did it. But what was cool is like two, three weeks later he was building more and he was asking what crush it'slike, you know, he was digging it in on his own doing itnow, like he had a sort of avoiding it had to be prodded.The Light Bulb had gone off. So I just think if you love prospectingand you're in any revenue roll, why wouldn't you take your best prospecting andstart automating it? Get Time back in your day step on tartly. Totally. Yeah, I think that's number the number one kind of argument. I'mhere and there. It's like and it's almost like I'm another points to anotherbroadom I but it's kind of like, actually, the more you automate,the more time you have to be human, right, the more time you haveto personalize, the more time you have to be white glove, right. That's what a lot of these s pride themselves on. It's like,oh, like white gloves, super you know, high touch, everything's verycustomized, very personal, and when you automate the things that don't need thatlevel, you can spend even more time making those extra improvements to the otherparts of the process. Just huge, and I don't know if you're hearingthis in the market but certainly from where I'm sitting in the companies I'm talkingto is I don't really know what happened during covid. I guess everyone's pipelinetook a massive hit. But since since covid hit, I'm finding way moreAE teams are now mandated to prospect. We were kind of like living inthis fairytale Golden Times where pipeline was good. At our BEDR teams were feeding oura's and a lot of a's weren't prospecting. And now that I don'tthink I can find a team anymore where the a's aren't supposed to be prospecting. Are you seeing the same thing? Definitely seeing that trend. I meanone of the best companies I worked in, the CEO mandated that the a's couldonly receive forty percent of their pipeline from in bound in strs and wildqbrs and like what I would call abm or ABS ABSD, the company salesdevelopment, like another acronym, but basically eachae presented here the two hundred countsI'm going after this quarter and then, like dovetailed with the str and hasshared spreadsheets. And so I saw this in the best most aggressive companies priorto this all happening in more are adopting that best practice. I want todouble click on some of you said earlier. Is I always look at it asa back burner and a front burner. There are types of emails that youcan write to the probably you can't automate and there's certain prospects, likeif I'm going to reach out to to manny, the head of outreach rightI'm not going to put them in a blast sequence. Like, even ifit's the best sequence ever, I'll probably just write the CEO of a massivecompany myself, if I'm brave enough to do that. That's nothing. Alot of reps won't reach high. Now you if it was really meaningful,you probably could get a bunch of sea levels, but you might want toslow down and make that a really special sequence. That is not as frequentbecause I'm probably not going to hit up the sea level as as much wasmaybe midlevel or the user level. So yeah, this trend is big.It's like everybody needs to prospect, and... I do think there's like arevolution going on where people have text acts, they haven't learned how to use them. They're dusting them off. They're getting out there now. The warningis if everyone starts using a sequence technology or touch pattern Omni channel cadences,what's going to happen is noise. But just like the telephone, your opportunitynow, if you're an a you listening to this, is make your messagebetter, pick better targets. Do it like use the tool and use itin a better way and you'll stand out. I always talk about like Tiger Woods, and you know, I go golfing with Tiger Woods and I've gotthe onezerollar big birth of driver. It's like space age man uberillium. Idon't know. I think that's like a radioactive element, titani and whatever it's. You know, I got the best club in the world. He's gotlike a rusty five iron from the S. he'll slaughter me. There's no wayI'll be like. I'll just slice worse into the trees and I'll justbe all the next I'm not a golfer. So it's you know, you can'ttrust the tool. You've got to trust what the tool is automating andget better at the process you're automating. That's that's my biggest takeaway. Iabout that, but that's story sounds way too much like what I was literallyduring last night about with I am not a good Golfer and I borrowed mybuddies Dad's actually, set of golf clubs that were beautiful and didn't go sowell. So, like that is a hard game, I'm telling you.I'm more into the whole idea of like Golf Cart Polo, you know,where you just drive the cards and you know, get the follow some otherhybrid and all right. So I like it. I hear. I heareverything you're saying. I think that's a fantastic analogy in a great way tolook at it. I guess the last thing I want to poke at inthis myth is that we're not just talking about pipeline, sales technology, salesengagement platforms and not just for getting meetings. Right. There is so much morenow that these things can do. When you look at that, youknow you're an AE and you need to create a mutual action plan, whilea lot of engaging platforms have that ability now where you could like tag aprospect that you're working with and keep them accountable and keep them on a timeline, which is really cool. For me if I was like managing, youknow, your managing thirty open opportunities. That's a lot of things to stayon top of. And you can start to use this guided selling motion tonot fully just automatically send something, but keep you on the right track.And every week and a half there's a temple that POPs up that has somesort of value added touch that is going to keep that that deal going forward. How are you seeing in the market people using, you know, salesengagement to kind of run a guided selling motion and not not just create meetings? This is one of the biggest challenges is staying organized. It's staying organizedon the touches. It's like you need your platform to remind you that you'veonly sent one linkedin touch. What a huge miss. You know, it'sreally hard when you're processing dozens or hundreds of prospects to remember to follow up. And then the cadence, the sequence technology. Now it's gotta tell youthe different Omnichannel touches to organize you and even recommend which one you should do. In the future of this stuff is it starts to get really wild becausethey can be crunching you know, benchmarks across the industry, benchmarks across thesystem and the systems can get smart and predictive and recommend a touch on acertain time. You know it alert you in different ways, and that's like, that's the power of the technology being smarter. You think the Dune barprinciple, right, like the human brain, the NEO CORTEX, can only holda hundred and fifty nodes. And so now we have a linked inand we have five thousand connection. You and I like tens of thousand connections. We can't remember mall, but the...

...system helps us, so we kindof can see the people. When you're a full scale a and you're deepin the weeds, I mean you're a year in, your sales force isjust a mess, in a good way, right, if you're getting a lotof pipeline. Yeah, how do you stay organized and you've built theseoutbound prospecting campaigns? How do you remember who you've touched, who you haven'ttouched? which touch, which channel? Just pure organization is killers. Soyeah, I love the future of Guid it selling because I want these systemsto be aware, predictive, reminding me, coaching me and telling me, likewhat I should do next. And so that's a big piece of thepromise. Now I do this a lot. And spreadsheets again, going way back. Yeah, yeah, Google sheets, and I'm like last touch and likewho we are this and like I manually do this stuff. But thedream is when I when I can put my spreadsheet down and just write likein like in my car, I have a heads up display that, youknow, tells me I don't have to look at the panels here. Ihave a floating orange speed so it tells me if I'm out going over thespeed limit. It's floating always. In my view, that, to me, is is the futuristic element of this. Is, like I'm on the zoomcall right with you right now and I'm getting signals of what I shoulddo. So I'm a futurist. I go way, way down the rabbithole this question. There's a lot more in these platforms now that you don'trealize that you could be utilizing. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, powerdo way and it's going to be exciting few years to see this. I'llcome together and I hear you with that. You know, real time next bestaction being served up, like this stuff is all coming. It's basicallyhere right with AI and conversational intelligence, listening your phone calls, and Isay, okay, awesome, Justin like, I'll put some time on the calendarfor for next week at this time. I'm going to get a set ofnotes after prompting me. Hey, make sure that happens soon. I'msure that will all be automatic. It's super exciting time to be a sellerright now. I mean like kind of I think everyone should approach it withthat attitude you have right. It's like this. This wasn't always the wayand this is so cool. This is like people using Dune Buggies, whichstill a lot of sellers are still operating that way. A lot of accountexecutives are, and now, you know, there's an opportunity to have what theTesla were there and not every account executive is is embracing it, whichis interesting. I have a card or seven hundred and sixty seven. Youknow, I think it's that question. It's like, well, okay,we have horse and Buggy. We need faster horses and the the collective ofSASS. They're saying we need better sellers, we need better sellers. Well,it's it's sort of the same question because right, if if it's ahorse and buggy versus a BMW, and then you go in the cockpit ofthe BMW, there's like eighty two buttons in the cockpit, and then yougo to Tesla, it's just like one touch interface. Then you can upgradethe car through software, through the cloud. What you know it's like. It'salways just the progression. You know, for this, this progression of technologyand the problems, you need both. You need great sellers with great technology, but it's not mutually exclusive. It's table stakes. Now, right, you're going to have a competitor who nails this stuff and if you're not, you're going to be left behind. And it's because the output in efficiency. If you start getting the automation game, one person, instead of sending manually, you know, twenty five emails per day, they're sending a hundredand fifty personalized, targeted emails per day that look great, even maybe betterthan the other one. Okay, within a couple weeks they've done what thatone person has done, what your team of five is done. So they'regetting these exponential iron man like outputs and you're sitting there playing a quality game. But the technology is to advanced. I can go on and on withthe metaphors. A lot of the iron man one. I feel like that. Yeah, the iron man students is very relevant. I always I'll doubleclick there. I always say iron human, you know, to keep everybody Ididn't name the Superhero, so it...

...was just like double click. Idefinitely believe everyone can have their Jarvis and just, you know, exponential.Absolutely all right. In the final minute or to everyone's busy. They're probablylistening this episode. They could be working out that, could be on ameeting. They've got this in their ear and it's hard to remember everything.If people just remember you know three things from this myth that we kind oftried to look at from a few different ways. What would you like thosethree things to be to approach this myth? Yeah, how to solve it?Solve it. Yeah. One, if you're an ae do you needautomation? It is your competitive advantage too. If your boss will not fund it, get a trial. There are automation tools that are nearly free.Prove it off for yourself. Bring that case, study backs, show thepipeline. Show them if you have to change companies because it's that important.Number three, I think about your Iq and your Equ and your tq andthink about excel. You use five percent it, learned a little bit better? Kaisen one percent per day. So you don't have to be a coderor technical to use these platforms. These are intuitive, wizzy wig, whatyou see is what you get. Platforms made for non technicals. This isnot made for a coder. You can learn this stuff. I've worked withLuttye people who's like I'm the worst with technology, that can barely use linkedin. They can't even send an email and I've put them in these automation platformsand they've taken like a duck to water. So That's a myth. It's nothard to use your resistive because you think it's going to be like coatingor something the one time you try code. It's not like that. There's beautifulinterfaces, it walks you through, there's tooltips, it's you know,I sound I sound like I'm featuring the choir, but you know, everyonecan use I remember, remember when your mom couldn't get on facebook and nowshe's, you know, mastered it. Same Way. I love it.I love it. Use It. It is your competitive advantage. The secondone you know, I bought a lot of sales technology myself at various organizationsI've been at when I can't push something through and most organizations, if theyare good organizations, will take your test, look at your results and that theresults are there, they'll go and probably even back date whatever you spenton it. The EQ Iq. Jumping in, spend a Sunday afternoon sharpeningthe sharpening the axe. I love it. Justin this was a lot of fun. Man excited to jump on the next myth with you. Will getthat going in the probably next week. And thank you all the listeners forhanging out with us. I always appreciate you and we'll see you next time. See you soon. Things again. This was another episode of the salesengagement podcast. To help this get in front of more eyes and ears,please leave us a shining five star review. Join US at sales engagementcom for newepisodes. Resources in the book on sales engagement to get the most outof your sales engagement strategy. Make sure to check out outreach. That ioh, the leading sales engagement platform. See you on the next episode.

In-Stream Audio Search


Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (317)