The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 3 months ago

How to Turn Automation Into Your Competitive Advantage


We’re digging into the myth that AEs (or other revenue roles) don’t need automation.

Spoiler alert: They really do.

In this episode, I interview Justin Michael , Co-Founder at HYPCCCYCL , about his automation tools lightbulb moment and how he sparks that recognition in others.

In this episode we discuss:

How the scalability of automation validates your process

Why automation gives you the gift of time

What to do to stay organized on the automated touches

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

Tech-Powered Sales by Justin Michael 

Combo Prospecting by Tony J. Hughe s

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts , on Spotify , or on our website .

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Sales Engagement

in your favorite podcast player.

Welcome to the sales engagement, apodcast, this podcast is brought you by outreach, the leading sales engagementplatform and they just launched out reach on our reach. The place to learnhow out reach well does not reach learn how the team follows up with every leadin record time after virtual events and turns them into revenue. You can alsosee how out rechin account based plays, manages reps and so much more usingtheir own sales engagement platform. Everything is backed by data pulledfrom out reach processes and customer base when you're done you'll be able todo it as good as they do had to outreach on io on out reach to see whatthey have going on now, let's get into the day's episode hello and welcome back and run to thesales engagement podcast. Thank you. As always start hanging out with us. Don'ttake it lightly that you decided to lend us your your drums for the nextthirty minutes, but this should be a fun one very excited for this. I amjoined by Justin Michael. We could go ahead and say. Mr Sales engagementhimself Justin welcome man yeah thanks for having me on the show. I do have alove for studios engagement platforms, some callthem sequencers, but yeah. I call myself a power user of out reach andI'm excited to kind of get more people using these platforms in a humane way.You know, that's, that's the key. How do I start away and I want to quicklygo into your background a little bit, but those listeners who are joining us?I just want to kind of set the stage so Jesson and I have decided to do alittle mini series within the podcast I'll, probably be about three three.Maybe four episodes together and what we're going to do is we're going to tryand tackle a few sales engagement, mits or sales technology. Miss Really andwe're going to look at them through a few different lines and from a fewdifferent ways so going to be fun, but before we get there just in. I alwayslike to ask this question provide some context for those who, maybe don't knowyou. What is that Superhero origin story of Mr Justin, Michael Yeah? So Ithink the best thing I could reveal is that I started out as an average know before SDR even existed. I was just like inside sales. I was on aphone, a voit phone. I thought I was pretty cool. I was like a you know,voice over Ip phone. When I was twenty five twenty six and you know I used totake the phone home with me on days off, and I used to call it like four M sothat I could do the seven a east coast shift and so for me I think that loveof the phone and just having no tech in the beginning, except my little voicephone- I mean now when I get to use these. You know parallel assisteddialer s like connect and sell, and I get to use these really advancedautomation, tools or intent. I just I think I have a certain gratitude forhaving it, because I had to make a miracle happen with just the phone like.I don't think. Gmail was even a thing. I think it was like way back in the day,so I'm forty one I've been selling for twenty years, and still this day Istill pick up the phone. So you know I love the text tax. I came out ofgraphic design and music recording he's just actually talking to a team todayabout that. Some of these platforms, even ten twenty years ago, like protools and photoshop final cut pro, they were really hard to use, and so, whenyou sit in a system like an outreach or a connected cell, this stuff is youknow, it's intuitive. You know back in the day like early photoshop there as,like, you know, twenty two steps to make a filter and then you'd have towait for fifteen minutes on your tower computer for it to process, and thenyou'd have to wait and do it again and so like hours just to get the thing tolook right. So it's all that gratitude for what the tech can actually do. It'sall pretty sophisticated. If we just roll back the clock ten years, I love it man. I often talk about that.When I you know talking to younger, you...

...know br people that want to get intotecto like they. What are some some tips and often my tip is go deep andwide so deep into an industry and wide in terms of skill set and when I saywide in terms of skill set, I'm like it's actually pretty easy these days togo and learn a canvas, an I movie and then all of a sudden. You could createall this beautiful. Looking collateral yourself, you can create a little movieand and to people like outsiders who haven't taken the Sunday afternoon tolearn this one tool and literally will take you one afternoon or less. Theythink it's like amazing and they're sitting or a wow like that person cancreate these these movies and this stuff, and it's it's unbelievablysimple and just getting easier. So you can leverage this pieces of technologyto get far ahead quickly. I also I love what you said around part of your loveof technology comes from a place of of not having it right, and I've alsowrestled with this thought, which I would love your opinion on. It would be an interesting experimentto have your new BDRA EST, whatever not get to use sales technology for likethe first two months and then give it to them. You maybe will take anefficiency hit, but then they're going to learn the process correctly they'regoing to learn. You know how difficult it can be andthen, when you give it to them, they'll fully embrace it, because we kind ofhave an adoption problem, sometimes, but then sales. Second, I think thatwould take it away. What do you think about that? Bodiam Yeah? So it'sinteresting, so oh my gosh, I'm a publish outer now and I almost feellike it's like a foregone conclusion like a cliche right, because there'slike six thousand sales books, which is cool. I got there because I was part ofa book called Combo prospecting with Tony j Hughes and the whole thesis ofthat book is like the macgyver. It's like you are in a company where theywon't buy you, the text, tack and I love macgyver because, like he's atoothpick and a grappling, you know umbrella and he like hot wires andnuclear sub, or something insane like he breaks into a helicopter with abobby pin or something you know, and so I feel like reps are like well, thetext tacks great, but you know I can't afford that or we don't have the Nablinbudget and then that's the excuse, like I'm, not taking my number because well,our competitor gets to use, fill in the blank Gong, or course or somethingwhatever the excuse is yeah. So to me, I actually believe in that scalabilityof automation is a proof point of the manual process. What might word yourprocess define your IP, your personas, your emails and then test them one at atime sending a Gmail. Now, if you're going to send fifty personalizedrelevant emails- and you can't get one to convert- maybe that's not an email,you want to send. You know thousands of or if you're doing, a certain voice,mail or a certain linked in approach and in nothings working you know. Maybethe target is off the messages off. If you can prove it out in the microcosmon a small scale, then it's really exciting to take in a sequencer. Soeven on really complicated campaigns. I hold a lot of the prospects back seniorpeople see levels and do it manually hyper personalized, and then I look formanual Ab tests to then take to automation this phone crips workinggreat, I mean I'm Cadian, lead I Q and I'm getting cell phones and it'skeeping people on the phone. It's converting in the meetings good. Now,let's call six phone numbers at a time. Let's do two hundred dollars and twohours, but if you're going to just start dialing and having liveconversations- and you don't know your sale story, you don't have your butt ofbuttles down, you don't right. You be caught flat foot and what's the pointso yeah yeah, I like it so kind of prove it out manually before you addrock of fuel to the to the situation, which seems like an obvious concept,but many don't do that. You know they'll by the technology. They'll getquote unquote, tool drunk and just go...

...for it. So I like that that line ofthinking all right, let's sive into it, we I know we have a limited amount oftime. We want to talk about myth. Jetant Mat, do you want to talk aboutfirst? Well, I think one of the things to kick the series off is the myth thata es don't need automation, and I think you know obviously with where you arepart of that automation is email, automation and I'm just talking aboutlike filas prior to the pandemic. It's like it was. It was great. I mean itwas a gravy train. We had so many events like I was a VPS. It was hadfour events a year. I got to fly in New York to Chicago to Vegas and to takethese events, and I just met all my prospects in person. So that's alreadya flood then at my roller deck some thing ten then I have in bound so likeI just didn't, really need the volume to go. sequence. Email like the SDRscould take care of this. I'm really just profiling. The Myth, as even I sawit right or I didn't- have a tight enough time because I was in mid,funnel and closing motions and creating decks and proposals like a es, aredoing great work. It's very customized, it's not easy, and once they've been ina company for six months to two years, they have dozens of warm opportunitiesthere progressing and it's a lot of hours. So they have to make time toprosequied do that they can be strategic one at a time. Network focuseven focus, and they often think that these automation technologies are notnecessary. That's the myth I want to poke into today. What are your thoughts where to begin? And I love this. I'vemet because I think it's been it's one. That's been around since I think salesengagements in section, even even I would say before that I feel like youknow there was always a class. Even when we're talking like C RN, there wasa clash between AES and whatever technology, because there's thisunderlying thinking of I know what I'm doing I got this I'vebeen doing this. You know a long time I bring in revenue, leave me alone. Idon't need this technology thing, so I think it's a great one to start with,and I guess my my first question is like: Why do you think this man existsin the first place? Is it just that? Is it what we've always done it this way,and it's worked for me self fur? It's interesting because the bridge groupstudy finds that forty percent of SDR is roll up to marketing and sixtypercent of sales, and I met with this company recently in La I'm in SantaBarbara Lol north and he is running this enterprise team, tens, a millionand run rate and everyone his teams. Twenty years experience and he's likedon't talk to me about blasting email, that's to Mangen, I haven't had ademand Gan. I got a curs go talk to the team and that really showed it to me. There's this fear of like the more senior people. They've got itthat is going to make calls, but the problem is you just have to look at thestats and the analysis, a hundred calls in the enterprise. You might get threehumans to pick up, they're, probably executive assistance, so it can take. You know to do a hundred like call a dials likethat could take an eight hour day. I could take at least a few hours, andmaybe they don't have the time so yeah. So That's how I've seen the myth- and Ichallenge them, because if you can start to have a scalable, predictablesequence of touches, it actually gives you time. So you know I was working with acompany and we first went manually just to setup a sequence and test these touches and then once it was working scaled itand now this guy suddenly has all this pipe on. No piple coming out of Ovidnow he's got you know, fourteen opportunities he's working and what ishe doing, he's working his opportunities and taking more meetingsand he's got the sequence, sir. The sales engagement platform running inthe background and he trusts it because he knows it's going to set and that'sthe beauty is he's now automated this piece. So, instead of having to do twoor three hours of prospecting a day, it's just running in the backgroundgenerating meetings, and it sounds too...

...easy, but remember the non easy part,which was the the five hours to chop down a tree, spend the first four hourssharpening. Actually GAEA Lincoln right measure twice cut once so like it's,not you just you know, buy something like out reach plug itand boom it its meetings. That's the other myth, that's the otherproblematic like they get it for the whole team. Nobody uses it. It didn'thappen because you have to invest in it just like any tool. So that's how Iwould kind of poke into the myth. Is it's the opposite way and the amount oftraining like you do like a university like Alrech University? It's, like you,said you take one Sunday to learn it. I had this experience recently n, where Ibrought one of these platforms into a Tech Company and the veteran seller whohad been selling for twenty years, who had never done automation took to itlike a duck to water, and you know he went through like the training and heset up some sequences and he did it. But what was cool as like two threeweeks later, he was building more and he was asking where pressions like youknow. He was digging it and on his own doing it not like he had it a sort ofavoiding and had to be prodded, the the light bulb had gone off. So I just think if you love prospectingand you're in any revenue role, why wouldn't you take your bestprospecting and start automating it and get time back in your day, step ona rig, Soly Yeah? I think that's number the number one kind of argument, I'mhere and there it's like, and it's almost like another point to another,broader MIT, but it's kind of like actually the more you automate the moretime you have to be human right, the more time you have to personalize themore time you have to be white glove right. That's what a lot of these aspride themselves on it's like! Oh, like white, glove super. You know high touch,everything's, very customize, very personal, and when you automate thethings that don't need that level, you can spend even more time making thoseextra improvements to the other parts of the process. Just huge- and I don'tknow if you're hearing this in the the market, but certainly from where I'msitting in the companies I'm talking to is I don't really know what happenedduring Ovid. I guess everyone's pipe line took a mass of Hit, but since since Colvin hit I'm finding way more AE teams are now mandated toprospect. We were kind of like living in this fairy tale golden times, forpipe line was good and our bd teams were feeding our as and a lot of asweren't prospecting, and now that I don't think I can find a team anymorewhere the as aren't supposed to be prospected. Are you seeing the samething? Definitely seeing that trend, I mean one of the the best companies Iworked in the CEO mandated that the AES could only receive forty percent oftheir pie, plane from inbound in SDRs and wild qb RS and like what I wouldcall ab m or ABS abd the Campe Sills development like another acronym, butbasically each a presented here. The two hundredcounts, I'm going after this quarter and then like dove tailed with the strand had shared spreadsheets, and so I saw this in the best most aggressivecompanies. Prior to this all happening in more are adopting the best practice.I want to double click on someting. You said earlier, as I always look at it asI a back burner and a front burner. There are types of emails that you canwrite that it probably you can automate and there's certain prospects like ifI'm going to reach out to to manny the head of outreach right, I'm not goingto put them in a blast sequence like even if it's the best sequence everI'll, probably just write the CEO of a massive company myself. If I'm brave enough to do that, that'snothing! A lot of reps won't reach high. Now you if it was really meaningful,you probably could get a bunch of sea levels, but you montant to slow downand make that a really special sequence. That is not as frequent because I'mprobably not going to hit up the sea level as as much was maybe mid level orthe user level. So yeah, this trend is...

...big. It's like everybody needs toprospect, and so I do think there's like a revolution going on. Wherepeople have text acts, they haven't learned how to use them, they'redusting them off they're getting out there. Now the warning is if everyonestarts using sequence technology or touch pattern, OMI channel cadences.What's going to happen is noise, but just like the telephone, youropportunity now for an a you listening to this is make your message better. Ibetter targets. Do it like use the tool and use it in a better way and you'llstand out. I always talk about like Tiger Woods, and you know I go golfingwith Tiger Woods and I've got the one thousand dollar big birth, a driver.It's like space age made up, be rilla. I don't know. I think, that's like aradio active, let Titania whatever it's. You know. I got the best club in theworld. He's got like a rusty five iron from the S he'll slaughter me there'sno way I'll, like I'll, just slice worse into the trees and I'll just beall I ax, I'm not a golfer. So it's you know, you can't trust the tool. You'vegot to trust what the tool is automated and get better at the process. You'reautomating, that's that's my biggest takeaway. I love that that that storysounds way too much like what I was literally doing last night. I am not agood Golfer and I borrowed my buddy DADS actually set of golf clubs that were beautiful and didn't go so well. That is a hard game.I'm telling you I'm more into the whole idea of. Like Golf Cart Polo you knowwhere you just dive the cards and you know get the follow some other hybrid, a all right, so I like it, I hear Ihear everything is saying I think that's a fantastic analogy and a greatway to look at it. I guess the last thing I want to poke at in this myth isthat we're not just talking about hypomanic Sosa gave men platforms, not just for getting meetings right.There is so much more now that these things can do. When you look at that,you know you're an AE and you need to create a mutual action plant, while alot of engaging platforms have that ability now, where you could like tag aprospect that you're working with and keep them accountable and keep them ona timeline which is really cool. For me. If I was like managing, you know your managing thirtyopen opportunities. That's a lot of things to stay on top of, and you canstart to use this guided selling motion to not fully just automatically sendsomething but keep you on the right track and every week and a half there'sa temple that pops up that has some sort of value at a touch that is goingto keep that that deal going forward. How are you seeing in the market?People using you, know, sales engagement to kind of run, a guidedselling motion and not not just create meetings. This is one of the biggestchallenges is staying, organized it's staying organized on the touches. It'slike you need your platform to remind you that you've only sent one linked intouch. What a huge miss you know, it's really hard when you're processingdozens or hundreds of prospects to remember to follow up and then thecadence, the sequence technology. Now it's got to tell you. The DifferentOmni Channel, touches to organize you and even recommend which one you shoulddo in the future of this stuff is. It starts to get really wild becausethey can be crunching. You know bench marks across the industry benchmarksacross the system and the systems can get smart and predictive and recommenda touch on a certain time. You know and alert you in different ways and that'slike that's the power of the technology being smart. You think the Don barprincipal right, like the human brain, the NEOCORTEX, can only hold a hundredand fifty notes, and so now we have a linked in and we have, you know fivethousand can next ure you and I have like tens f thousand connection. Wecan't remember Moll, but the system...

...helps us, so we kind of conceive thepeople when you're a full scale. A and you're deep in the weeds I mean you'rea year in your sales force, is just a mess in a good way right if you'regetting a lot of pipeline yeah. How do you stay organized and you've builtthese outbound prospecting campaigns? How do you remember who you've touchedto you haven't touched? which touch which channel just pure organization iskiller so yeah? I love the future of God. It selling, because I want thesesystems to be aware, predictive, reminding me coaching me and telling melike what I should do next and so that's a big piece of the promise. NowI do this a lot in spreadsheets again going way back, yeah yeah it Googlesheets, and I'm like last touch and like who would the sad like I manuallydo this stuff, but the dream is when I, when I can put my spreadsheet down andjust right like in like in my car, I have a head sub display that you knowtells me I don't have to look at the panels here. I have a floating orange speed, so it tells me if I'm going overthe speed limit. It's floating, always in my view that to me is, is the futuristicelement of this is like I'm on the some call right with with you right now andI'm getting signals of what I should do. So I'm a future is like a Wen way downthe rabbit hole of this question. There's a lot more in these platforms.Now that you don't realize that you could be utilizing, that's how I'msaying yeah, how do I it's going to be exciting a few years to see this allcome together, and I hear you with that. You know real time next, best actionbeing served up like this stuff is all coming. It's basically here right withAI and conversation, intelligence of listen, your phone calls- and I say,okay awesome, just in like I'll put some time on the calendar for for nextweek. At this time, I'm going to get a set of notes after prompting me Hey,make sure that happens soon. I'm sure that will all be automatic. It's superexciting time to be a seller. Right now I mean the kind of Ithink everyone should approach it with that attitude. You have right, it'slike this. This wasn't always the way, and this is so cool. This is likepeople using Dune Buggies, which still a lot of sellers are still operating.That way, a lot of account executives are, and now you know, there's anopportunity to have like the test law were there and not every accountexecutive is. Is Embracing it, which is interesting? I have a card. I was sevena D sixty seven. You know, I think it's that question. It's like well, okay, wehave horse and Buggy. We need faster horses and the the collective of Sassthey're saying we need better sellers. We need better sellers. Well, it's it'ssort of the same question because right, if it's a horse and buggy versus a BMW,and then you go in the cock paid, the BMW there's like eighty two buttons inthe cockpit and then you go to test lines. Just like one touch in her face,then you can upgrade the car through software through the cloud and what youknow it's like. It's always just the progression. You know for this, this progression oftechnology and the problems you need. Both. You need great sellers with greattechnology, but it's not mutually exclusive. It's table stakes now, right,you're, going to have a competitor nails this stuff and if you're notyou're, going to be left behind and it's because the output in efficiency,if you start getting the automation game, one person instead of sendingmanually, you know twenty five emails per day, they're sending a hundred andfifty personalized targeted emails per day that look great even may be betterthan the other one. Okay. Within a couple weeks, they've done with that,one person has done what your team of five is done. So they're getting theseexponential iron man like outputs and you're sitting there playing a qualitygame, but the technology is to advance I can go on and on with the metaphors,I love the iron man one. I E like that yeah the iron man set is very relevant.I always I'll double quick there. I always say iron human. You know to keepeverybody a O, I name the Superhero, so...

I was just like double click. Idefinitely believe everyone can have their Jarvis, as you know, exponential,absolutely all right in the final minute or two everyone's busy they're.Probably listening to this episode, they could be working out. They couldbe on a meeting. They've got this in their ear and it's hard to remembereverything. If people just remember you know three things from this met that wekind of tried to look at from a few differentways. What would you like those three things to be to approach this myth yeah?HOW TO SOLVE IT? So yeah one if you're in a do you need automation. It is yourcompetitive advantage to if your boss will not fund it get a trial. There areautomation tools that are nearly free, prove it out for yourself bring thatcase. Study back show the pipe line show them. If you have to changecompanies, because it's that important a number three, I think about your Iqand your Eq and your t, Q and think about excel. You use five percent ofexcel at what, if you took you know one course on it, learned it a little bitbetter Kis in one percent for day, so you don't have to be a coder ortechnical to use these platforms. These are intuitive wizzy wig. What you seeis what you get platforms made for non technicals. This is not made for acoder. You can learn this stuff. I've worked with Lodi people, who's like I'm,the worst for technology can barely use linked on. They can't even send anemail and I've put them in these automation, platforms and they've.Taken like a duck to Water S. that's a myth. It's not hard to use you'reresisted because you think it's going to be like coating or something the one timeyou try code. It's not like that! There's beautiful interfaces! It walksyou through there's tool, tips. It's you know. I sound. I sound like I'm preaching the choir, but you knoweveryone can use it. Remember remember when your mom couldn't get on facebookand now she's, you know, mastered it same way. I love it. I love it use it.It is your competitive advantage, the second one you know. I bought a lot ofsales technology myself at various organizations. I've been at when Ican't push something through and most organizations if they are goodorganizations, will take your test. Look at your results and the resultsare there, the they'll go and probably even back date, whatever you spent onit, the the Eq IQ jumping in spend a Sunday afternoon sharpening the Chapinin the axe. I love it just in this was a lot of fun. Man excited to jump onthe next MIT with you we'll get that going in the probably next week, andthank you all the listeners for hanging out with us always appreciate you andfor see next time see so things again. This was another episode of the SalesEngagement podcast to help this get in front of more eyes and ears. Pleaseleave us a shining five star review join us at sales, engagement for newepisodes, resources in the book on sales engagement to get the most out ofyour sales engagement strategy, make sure to check out out reached T. I othe leading sales engagement platform, see you on the next episode.

In-Stream Audio Search


Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (307)