The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 10 months ago

The Role of the AE Throughout the Customer Journey w/ Adrian Foley

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

It’s not enough to get a renewal every year or three.

You want to go beyond 100% to increase that net dollar retention number. You need to get the AE more involved in the customer journey.

In this episode, I interview Adrian Foley, Global Head of Sales at Teamwork, about the AE’s role throughout the customer journey.

What we talked about:

  • The ideal AE/CSM relationship
  • Understanding account health
  • 2 tried & true tactics for AEs

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast,this podcast is brought to you by outbreach the leading sales engagementplatform, helping companies, sellers and customer success engaged withbuyers and customers in the modern sales era, check out sales,engagementcom for new episodes, resources and the book on sales,engagement available on Amazon and Barns and noble or wherever books aresold. Now, let's get into today's episode. Hello, Ladies and Gentlemen,are welcome to these sales engagement podcast. Today we have a guest fromIreland actually across the pond by the name of Adrian fully from team work,and the first thing I always have to say when I meet someone from Ireland is:What's the crack. That's like what's up in Ireland and plase Adrian Mistakeme,I'm wrong on that one there, but why don't you go ahead and introduceyourself and hen tell us a little bit about yourself. Hey yes time, censasdelighted to to be here challing to you today, so yeah watch the crack and just tomake sure everyone is clear. It's pelt CRAIC, which is very different. I guessfrom what you could be inferring to, and so, as you said, Andrew AdenFolli's, my name, I work for a company called teamwork, ind the global head ofsales. Tat Teamwork is a assass work and project mines and platform at we've,a number of prodics actually in our sueet and company's been going a fewyears actually, but we're seeing a lot of growth in the last two or three. Ipreviously worked for VNWOR, where I was oning the inside sales mid marketgraduate program here in Europe and Previouslythatin INEMC, so a lot ofsort of corporate experience. I guess which his name got me into much more ofa fast molving, challenging SASS environment or loving it at this stage.IC', Nice and- and so the topic of Todaydin that I want to get yourperspective on is for account executive specifically.What is their role throughout the customers journey throughout theircustomers journey the accounts that they're tike to it? We really want toget into the weeds of that, and so, by the end of this, give people listeningand tactics around. How do we get accounting executives more involvedthroughout the customer journey, and I think that's what we're going to getout of today? That's what we're going to strive for so for those listening.Hopefully you know if we've done our job well today, that's what you'll getout of this is tactic. You can take to your team implement to get someexpansions nupsell. So that's what werwill go for, but ATERAN. Why don'twe get started off and let you know, let's just you tell me a story beforecoming from vm where to the SAST startup world. Things are a little bitdifferent want you want to describe that in terms of the a kind of role from where here from surewhere it isnow where is Nhot? Okay, so I guess I've seen the AE roll very differentdepending on the organization that you work for right so back into the M whordays- and you know, Orae was completely responsible for everything that happensin an account. You know when we were doing our inspection. I guess of theviews that we had. We expected E to know everybody who was in a purchasingposition within an organization know what they like to do: A E for a hobbyand know who their vosses were basically understand everything aboutin the Kent and that they were a comfortable right. We wanted them to beaccounttable anfor that they had to develop the rellationships, and youknow I think, back in in that sort of a vm where day for me, which was verymuch our own perpetual licensing, the relationship mattered. So you know itwas somebody bying from somebody I was buying from Andrew, because I likeddange I paid down for Andrew. I knew on Andeli. He got me tickets to go to agame, so it was a very, very different experience in into while I actually gotto understand as I moved into the SASE work and for us and in Geam worker Iwould say you know we have a different view of what in the AE does, and wehave looked at the customer journey...

...very very differently from what I wasused to. I was used to a situation where I saw to you Andrew, and I said:okay, I'm going to call you again in two and a half years. When the renewalcomes up for your thoe year, contract and Yeh. You know, hopefully you dowell in the meantime right today for us and team work is very much about thecustomer experience. It's very much abaged how you get on board, it's verymuch about how you would taft the solfor that we sellin solution that weprovide an andte youfulization of that. So today, FRONA AE. They obviouslytryied to position the value they speak to our prospects and our customers, butonce they get that sane completeed, they pretty much hand over to our CSMSand the CSN jobss to make sure that the customers an boarded correctly to makesure that they're adopting that if they bought a hundred licenses they're usinga hundred licenses and then obviously look at utilization as they progressthrough their stages. The question as you follet thoses: Whatdoes the E do and all of this is going on right and- and I must admit you know-we've seen that sort ou own evolved here in teamwork, where you know in thepast Wante to bet was don. You know the s the CSM took over. The account werenow at a sage where we want the AE envolved when he accome to sealthyagain so or when do you com to is onboard correctly? So, whichever ofthose two comes first, usually obviously getting them on boardedcorrectly is the first step we take and then the EE comes in and start to lookfor a cross cell or expansion in dedicate yeah and it's interestingthere, a Doany Oen, make a fair point, which is, I think, it's common amongst a lot of esales leaders that I'm speaking to today on the podcast, and you know, dayto day job stuff is, you know we're seeing account executives, get moreinvolved in the postsal process and, as you mentioned, it was kind of you know.I think there was this trend. Previous previous to covid right when Nelogo waswas main focus number one. Let me actually go back to that right, likelet's talk about the shift, the fore ic get in what I was just goingto say: Theshift is what we're seaeing is acount execut. You know previous to covidright. It was a lot of new logo focus. Well guess what happened were coSeeiffos were looking at everything spent right. It was harder to close newlogo deals. So a we start, as se sales late leaders do, which I think was theright move is focus on that expansion than you can get in. Current customeraccounts that you're already in if your product is truly valuable. So becauseof that shift, I think what happened because of that is we start to see.ACCOUNTG XECK is obviously Gett more involved in the postsale process rightin order to upsell expand, make sure it's healthy, protect the revenue riot.Most importantly and sorry, you know there there has been this major shit soeven internally, and what I've been hearing is a lot of like what does thatrelationship? Look like them for the ECAN executive for the Customer SuccessManager Right? Maybe it used to be more of Hey. Let me sit back and Ourlax acustomer success manager kind of now the quarterback you know, but now it'smore of a team work, but now there's this. This interesting phase that werein here in the SASS world, which is there's account executives and CSIMS,that re that are really owning your accountpost, sale, right and, and sowhat I would love to hear from you right, and you know in all the yearsthat you've been in sales like what is that ideal relationship, withthaticaccount executive and that customer success manager, like what shouldpeople listening to here, strive for right when it comes to those those Aesin those kn customers discuss managers working together? Well, I would saythat one of the key things is to have a you know have ano star for each ofthose teams right because for me now I've married up, you know csms an Aesinto a teiton right and those two...

...people have an ord stare of what theyneed to achieve in that territory, and I would say, neck dollar attention,rigt or Andris is one of the key metrixs that we use to obviously growthe territory and the customers using an a and to CSM together right. Soowere saying, Hey guys, it's not just good enough to get a renewal now everyyear, even though it's crinically important. We also want to increasethat net dollar attention number. So we want to go above a hundred percent toshow were explainning or to show we're getting some prossell opportunitiesfrom those accounts that you're managing. So I would say that theseguys need to be joined at the hip right at the CS. Seventy should be joined, tat the HIP. They should have the same and nort star, knowing what they needto do and if we can achieve that, I think you get really really good aobviously alignment be net on retention, see happy customers, so getting thoseguys to feel that they're working together, I would say it's critical litally and I think you know I've madethis mistake as well as is typically, you know what customers don't want isan account executive that shows up just when there's something to be sold right.They want a partner they and no one wants to be that person that just showsup when they want something for the customer. So you know, I think onething here that take away that I've seen super success. Successful CHACexecutives do is, you know, don't wait until there's a fire or some issue toshow up and try and help right like how. I think we need to sit back andunderstand like what are some quick wins. We could do to constantly providevalue to the customers as the account executive that doesn't step on thecustomer. Success Managers Tos right, like if you're a user you're in acountersective selling a product that you use yourself like how do you giveyour own trainings on it right with the customer success manager? How do youjust continutoly provide value, an P of resource? That's the question right andit can vary from product or product, but I think that's what's supersuccessful, we conesectores are doing te day and okay. You know, if you'redoing I W business reviews as well, which I highly recommend that to likeevery three to six months was your custo whith. Your large customers likewithout a doubt, you know and doing that like show up to those there's,there's nothing like showing up to the executive business review where you canget all the executives in the room to discuss the success, your product andwhat they're thinking about and what they think their perspective. Even onyour product, right like if there's exactives around you need to be, thereisn't a count executive and you know sometimes I hear about it. You knowSSMs running these and there being a disconuct onhuman ca communication likehey. You know the sstems running it so hey, I don't need to show but asn acount executive but like if you have all your executives in the rown come on,like you need to be there yeah ihtliv. Yes, I think as well andow.You know tthere's two fre other things that listening to what you've just saidthat I would Dar toet to everybody right. One is, I think, when the two ofthese guys get together, we actually understand what healthy accounts looklike much better as an a salesperson than we may have done in the past right.So you know if you're, looking at what a healthy comp looks like so for ushere in t work and as an example weve to fined certain features andfunctionality that if the customers are using age out of ten or nine out of tenor five out of ten, it will determine wherehe. We feel as a business, Tharhealthy other, not so looking at how you would structure that is imporantthe AE understanding. What a healthy account looks like is really reallyimportant, then, as well to your point as well. I think in terms of what theydo and how you can kind of work wat in account without getting into way of theCSM, I think delivering content to your...

...customers, probably the easiest way todo that, witho getting and stepping on someone's tors, because you know I'veseen some of the very best guys where they actually create their ownblovposts. They create their own content for an industry or a segmentthat they're working into and they deliver this content. Oh to thecustomer, and sometimes a customer reacts, and sometimes, of course theydon't right. We don't know that right, but at the end it shows that theyreconstantly delivering Valu, and I think one of the other things that we'veprobably seen you know. U, when you go into a crisis like that, like the colvecrisis, I guess we're all sing at the minute. Is that you know if you go backand have a look at the challenger sale, for example, the challenge of Sanes GuyActually can succeed when we're in boom times and when we're in a crisis rightand the reason that they succeed. Of course, in border those scenarios isthat they create value, they create a budget for the customer. They show thecustomer that they can hade huge loats of value. Therefore, you know it's notjust because I'm a nice guy and you're dealing with me when you've loads moneyto spend you're, also dealing with me and working with me when you're in verydifficult tough times, because you trust me to create that value for YourBusiness and, I think, they're the kind of things that you know my team as a sans team. At the moment,I think when we do our church rviews when we sit down wit, our CSMS, we'rediscussing the key things that were doing to add value to our customer base,and I feel that's what's continuing to allow us to grow here in Teawor,because even through the covid situation, we have continued to growyeah, absolutely an in that relationshipis. Also interesting, youmentioned a great point is like the health of the account understanding.Not You know, that's the customer success managers. You knowresponsibility mostly right, like on a day today. Hey what's adoption like,and I think it's a fair point to say. Like you know, as e Counti Esecuives,do we have enough insight into that right? Are We? Are we too reactionaryto to that ride? Like maybe do we is there a change happening where weonly show up? You know when things are unhealthy were like? Oh, oh, my gosh.What's going on now, I definitely can't expand this account right in how do webe more proactive about understanding that accounthouse right, like in understanding hay? This is healthyor if it's going in the wrong direction right and catch that early, because, asyou know, there's ways to cap shese things early before gets, you know yougo down a rabbit, hole and the're in a contract, and the numver now comes upand they're like well. We didn't hear for me for six months, so you knowwe're not going to renew so, for you like. What's a way to be proactiveabout, like that, you know account health with the customer successmanagent and just really have good perspective on what that is yeah, and Ithink it's probably you know simmer to the point I midearlier. It's a Rene understanding, Lik Gess, the challenges that we're solvingfor W W. When we look at our customers, because you know there's definitelytimes I would have seen in the past where we sell without understandingenough about the usecase understanding, the value that we're bringing- and Ithink it's imperative for me today- that all of our AES understand whetherthe account is hatee because of ABRC. So this account is Hav e because weredoing all of these things and were solving for the problem or Tisaccountis unhealthy because we're not solving for that problem. I need to understandthat I need to work with my CSM so that collectively we can either figure IUTwas if something that was done in correctly an onboarding di. We onboardthese guys correctly and why is the adoption that where it should be- andyou know why are we hitting wars when we try to expand cross cell or Obson?So I would say again it's the aligment of CSM and AE to make sure that we'redoing the right things that we...

...understand what those use cases are fora customer I mean yeah. I remember going back a while. You know doing astarted, doing a De Review and saying to an AE hey, you know what do theseguys do as Ou owfor their business and they wouldn't know right. They actuallywouldn't know now. Luckily enough, don't have that in teamwork. Luckily,but I have seen that many times where anae just gets an opportunity works itand never actually asks the customer what's their business. What are theytrying to achieve and where the challenge you know so we've gone verymuch into the valueselling model and the valueselling Mardel allows us tounderstand the usecase understand the challenge and hand those over to theCSM who then implements and onloards knowing what those challenges are. Sohopefully we end up in a very healthy position: no Yis, that's the yeah, andI like what you said about going back to account healthright a helping theaccounte jacking understanding that is making it as black and white aspossible. So there's no questions about. There's no question marks like: Arethey healthy or they'r? Not because you know you know they're green, becausethey're doing xynz they're in the yellow because of XNZ and theyre redbecause of XYNC ind understanding. That right, I think, is, is super interesting thatway, it's just n just like what we do with the SDR BDR and AA model like whenyou're saying, Hey, you passed me an opportunity. This is great. It'stypically most organizations you make it as black and writer as possibleright to understand like is this an opportunity? Why don't we do that samething with the count, health right and then to being able to take action on? I think execution would be much easierif there was one visibility in O that account health for the accountexecutives that we were to do there and then, secondly, understanding based on why it was they were green or yellow orred like what Actios to take next based on that, and I think that's whate we'restart to get in US acsm model an expectation setting what's going onthere for sure for sure yes s, another regon, O resy one for you,iaondis right is that I actually again learned this myselfhaving come to seam, Worki and and gettinginvolved in these different types of challenges. But you know if you look ata customer that actually says they're happy and their own at, but but letlet's say your metric sater during the raid right, so there maybe at riscortheyre in Dhe, amber right, so they're not healthy. You know maybe not risk ofturning but they're in that amber face and remember saying to one of es theCSGUS here you know. Why is that? Why are we saying these guys becausethey're telling US they're happy? Of course, what it does is if a customersonly using you know one or two of the feature sort of FUNCTIONALITYTO,provide they're at risk of switching to another platform, much much easierright. So if you've got someone who's doing age or nine, you know, things are,you know, is using your functionality or featuresif theye create ornite Chancer, it's very difficult for them to switch tosomething else. If they're saying they're, happy and they're only usingone or two, but that gives the risk and a representsoris that they could go.Okay. Well, look! You know, something else is much cheaper. I'm just going toflick, switch and they're gone before you know, even though you know theywere actually very happy with what you guys were doing and that's why we andteamwork as an example. We measure it by the you know the number of featuresthat each of our customers are using and we've determined that ourselvesusing some metrix to figure out what to Hel the and on Healt Y. Look like yeah. It's just, and I think one thingthat came I mind as you were chatting about. That is, I eas and CSNS definitely understandthe account health, but also the important pace. I think that we'vemissed here is the implementation team, as well in the middle of there right inbetween you know, handoff from a to...

...implementation to customer success. Ipersonally believe that the implementation phase is the mostimportant phase of it all tright, and that is also a place where I thinkthat's a count executives me included. We can all do better in in going alongthe journey of that implementation with the imvlentation consultant or you know,Customr engagement manage o whatever you're calling it your organization,but I think that's one interesting area and here's. Why, especially today, iswe are seeing this shift in terms of, as you know like we're, CFOs arelooking at every penny right and, if you're starting to think long term, ifsomething's out of value for the organization you've gotten so far as toclose the deal today, let's see you cause a deal this week this month. Thatis like almost magic today, right inAsasfo, if you're closing Anyo logo like that is gold, there Ino Nilo goesconsider goal of my opinion. So if that's the case like, we want tomake sure that we're setting ourselves up long term for this to be asuccessful account. Now with that being said, that's why we shouldn't let go ofthe account and just handed off ther an implementation place. What we need todo is understand. How do we implement this? Not only in a way that we have inthe past to so that they get the value out of the product, but how do wecontinue to measure thevalue so that when that renow comes up in a year ortwo years that there's there's not a battle between hey? Should we go withtool x that we're using now or too, while over here, because it's actuallymore important right- and I think now, business tat, especially in the SASTROL,businesses- are being held more accountable and they should be vender specifically, unlike what's thevalue that they're providing and so what I've seen. Some great accountexecutives due today is in the implementation Phaseis, while thereware through implementation, helping the implementation to you understand,Hey I've, seen customer I've seen my other accounts that are very happy,have seen values and the you know x ynzas. Can we measure that and continueto measure that so when we do have these upsell Crosso conversations? Ihave a quantifiable item to point at that says, here' sow much valueinprovided there's. No questions asks if to see US see. If I were to cometomorrow and say: Hey like is out reachvaluable there rerenols coming upand we need to save money. Can you on you know on the spot, say yeah? I knowexactly the value they're providing right, there's, not many companies thatcan do that today, right like on the spot, and so I also think for e Casacky.That's an interesting area where we can also continue to be involved is holdingourselves accountable for what we promise and can easily continue tomeasure value because you're not getting the deal clothes an todayunless you're speak, you know creating a business caseos, some kind and t ahas to relate to money, right revenue or right lowering cost or Laurent risk,whatever it is. But how do you? How do you hold you know? How do you quantifythat and continue to give hisibility of that throughout the customer Jorney atany point in time it's available and ready, and I just want oat there. So interesting is probably why we pickednet dollar attention as a key metric for the team and so that you know thatthat renewal, ISS part of that an expansion is part of that and t ecourse cross o this part of that right. How do you get above? A hundred percentin the account book that you've got and has to be Yo know, has to be eitheracross celler Ike spantion. That gets you about that hundred percent, and I thinkyou know we've started to manage the accounts in a very precise windowbecause remember at the other end and youjust refer to Aander at the otherend of the cychle. You've got your renewer right, so you've got an aewho's looking at the account getting on...

...boarded helping CSM helping withadaption getting into a healthy place, and then you know tea minos. Ninetyyou've got your renewal conversation to start right and for us and GM work asas an example, you know what the say is guys don't get paid on the NEWOS.That's dealt with sefrically, so you've got to make sure that you're creatingthat value, that your are in contact with the customer right up to that team,Minas Niky, because we also don't want, I guess, expansion and crosssellgetting in the way of making sure the customer relus right. So you end up inthat very very murky water again for ninety days before that, renewer comesand not using the renewal as a reason to do other things, thot the customersmay come and ask and say: Hey I'd like to expand along with my renew right,fantastic, but we should be trying to drive that as ASE, we should understandthat's common. Yes, you get some blue birds with the majority we shouldactually be in control of. So we should know that the customer wants to talkrenewal. Wante Te talk, expansion at the time of renewer, which is fine. Youknow it can be budget, could be lots of different things that drive thatconversation, but I do feel that it should be something that, where incontrol of Rawder than is happening without without us, even knowing andhebring up a great point. There Atrin on their annol, sat like like being ableto leverage ther Reno to get expension right and again going back to my point: Arly, but notjust showing up during the RENEL and I've never met you and then ask you forexpansion, and I said my question for in it's an Aurt here that I think we'retalking about. But what are some tactics that you think acount executives can utilize today tokickstart that, like expansion conversation, one of those being therenol right like what are some other key like signals that they can use tokick start renewal conversation or not a Reno comers, an upsell or cross. Soconversation right like what are some key signals that we should look out forther and like go about it right. What not just saying hey like nice to seelike, let's talk so I can see if there's an expansion here right, ut, noone likes that no one likes to be sold like that. So what are some ky Singalsthat they can look out for and some TACIS, so they can etalize to likestart those conversations so wet. I would say you know for me a the theteams that I've got here. We do a few different things. You know. First ofall, we were Beenin content depending on what segment somebody's in theeducation financial healthcare. You know so we're building contentdelivering that into our customer day. Look at look at what we're doing we'reusing reference cases, and you know sore saying: Hey Andrew, you know,we've just closed a Farsepe company very similar to yours. You know threemonths ago, Yoouk at the kind of things they're doing you know trying togenerate some ideas with those different companies. I would also saythat we, you know, we actually use things like a navigator of says, linkthe navigator quite a bit right, so we're using information coming fromthose organizations who are you know, maybe doing acquisitions opening open anew location, doing different things, wor in their business and we're tryingto personalize and make our content more relevant. So you know if I get anemail that says Aya you know saw that you've just acquired another companywe've been working with similar organizations. Here's some stuff thatcoal actually help. You do your job. You know I'm opening that every dayright so making it relevant and making it more personal is the kind oftactical things that we're trying to do underground, and you know I look at the or sort of large en prase Acot Newsreeland you see lots of different things coming in an Noi can get a little bitnoisy to be honest as well. I think you know there's a lot of stuff that comesin you're going. Oh you know if it just makes it difficult to actuallytrawlinto it, so you got to make sure...

...you get your right filters put in there,but understanding what those customers are doing and going through and helpsyou. I think, to start off those conversations. You made a great pointearlier. I think the CSM and the Sansguy sitting Inthe Qbr we'veactually changed it from quarrerly business reviews to just customerbusiness review. So they can happen in two months and three months and sixmonths doesn't matter it's about the customer, but I guess showing thecustomer the Aro way that they're getting from using or solutions makesit much easier to go back and Abe the Shos advisor and be you know, look andfind explantion and then trustet opportunities, yeah, that's a in yeah one thing,theyre a doing is like I want to point out. Is that, like inall these situations, like discovery, never ends right, like I think when wethink the dealis over and it's not part of the generic sales process of likehey? Do I discovery meeting you know Demrin Demo and then chat on whateverit is, but always be doing. discatery becauseguess sat things are always changing, for example, even internally thinkithow things change? U Your Organization, especially Wen our startup, I don'teven know, what's going on half the time at my own organization in terms ofpriorities and what we're buying and what we're doing like at the top rightso like. How would you expect you know like if you can't expect to know everythingabout a business, because people internally still don't know everythingright that work there? So I think that's part of the process isphilosophically the way I put it is like. You should always be looking forways to icorporate yourself, where you can discover more information. How doyou acquire more information about that business because information is powerright information information is always going to be. What's going to get youthe EPSL, the cross cell or anything so any ways to insert yourself to getinformation, I think, is what we need and I don't think it's I don't thinktoan. I think it's a mindset shift here right is, we shouldn't be incertingourself to sell. We should be incerting ourself to discover the discoverieswith Leseis a sale right, and I think in that miaset Shi. It's really justcoming in with curiosity l, what's going on like what more can we know toeventually build a case right to say, here's why we can upsell Hereis why wecan cross? So it's I think a simple shift would be awesome if we were all ewant to do that. You know yeah, it's a greater point and I think the otherthing is wet, that I've seen I guess and I's. Probably over my year is yeah.You know how do we become the subject matter,experts topp right for those industries and fothesetment, because you know inlots of ways you know if you're selling, to everybody it's difficult right, it'sdifficult to sell to every industry every department you know, you'll, findit like anef US would find it very difficult to become a subject. Funerexpert. So you know in some ways and we're seeing this at the minute we aretrying to focus our sands efforts, we're looking to figure out what doesour ICP look like and when we understand that your ICP allows you to focus in allows you tohave your csms get better ot on boarding your ICP? Have your sales guysbecome subject: Mattero experts in that ICP? Have your support guys understandthe ICP, the marketering, the challenges that they fix and I thinkthat's something that a lot of businesses, asstas and others probablyhaven't done to the extent that you should do, because you know you mad agreat point Erer, you know. If you try to figure out and discover you know thefifty large accounts that you're being told you need to manage. You won't havethe time to do that right because you've got a whole lot of icoming stuffgoing on and you've got training. You've got your day today. Activitiesyou need to do, but you need to spend you know a significant timeunderstanding you know. What's going on in these fifty accounts that you havebeen handed so your segmentation is...

...important and the accounts that you'regiven you need to be given the band with, I think, to go and understandthem to deep dive, understand their challenges, know what they're doing andthen take it from there. As you look for expansion, look for up Tury andlook to become the trusted adviser, absolutely insom rings about here. I'vefrom your perspective, you know: You've been AV DMWERE. Now your a teamer e, how many accounts ideally riand. I knowthis is a indepenence question right but, likefrom you know emerging to midmarket to enterprise right like how many accountsshould people be managing like. Have you seen them able to manage rightsuccessfully where they're doing everything you I deally want them to do,and I know this is there's no sover bullet here. Right, yes, yeah wwhat, would you say thereaand? You know, I would say every stays, manager and leader. You know in everycompany across the world, as probably asked themselves that same question atsome point o time I tellyou a small ite story Tou so many years ago actually twas just before I joined the in where I was in the MC right so similarorganization. We were selling stories. I managed the team right across Europe,but the VP in Europe. I remember it made a decision in the mid market, so D,we admit market sales, guys who had? Maybe you know fifty acouns to manlageright and I remember he came along and said to me: Agian we're going to Cakthe number of Accounto these guys have, and of course I remember thinking. Ohmy God right this is going in a is going to be nutmy right becauseeveryone likes to have you know the bench. So you know they calling andnumber they kind of have good idea, they're going to get number and thenthe these other count that you know if business comes in fantastic right makesit much easier for us all. He cut the number. We grew the business bythirteen percent batk first year, the next year he cooked the number againand we grew the business again by our on eleven or twelve percent. So it wasobvious that you know the guys just had too many accounts that were being left.There were probably very opportunistic in Tho way they wereb managed, but ifwe actually went tan manage them, we could get an owful lot more from them.So we cut that down from fifty. I think it was down to about thirty fiveeventually down to about twenty five and in some cases, depending on thecountry in Europe, it was fifteen to twenty somewhere in that region andwhen they, when the AES looked at that mook that they had that coheartecustomer, I think they always saw that in one quarter. You know they had sixoras that were probably you know, purchasing next quarter day, a few thatwere actually you know in that paying cycle, and then there was a few thatwere, you know, probably a little bit dorman that they had to work on, but itgave them the chance, then to spend you know, quality time, trying tounderstand what those customers needed. Wow. That's that's the hard truth. There 's right,Wi, Ese, an Guy Ai, was Gointo, say. There's no Oknow, there's no problem. The answer that it's you know it depends in thesize of customers. I guess whether you're a mid market, whether you're alarge you can have your enterprise. You know you know you've enterprisecustomers, where you have a team of people on one account a just want tocom manager right, so it does vary, and I think I think myself as you cot themTeng. You probably see that there's a lot of cans that aen't Bein properlymaneed, because the as just don't physically have the time to do so. Yeahand Braiin as full circle in terms of like AES throughout the customer likecycle specifically postsales Ori like managing their customers like if theirresponsibilities are new logo and expansion right and you're managingyour time there. Maybe too many customers is I s not enough to do upselright because you're not focusing your time there and you're. Look at allthese shiny toys every day and new...

...meetings and like potential deals rightso very interesting. It's an art and I don't think anyone has silver bullet.But if someone does they're going to be a very rich person, yes and I think weo we all go to ourcareers, you know and and depending on the type of companies you work for you know it changes right. The dynamicchanges I think in the Stas word, I've seen it very very different than what Isaw in the sort of more corporate orientated perpetual licensing, and Ido believe you know companies like Vm, were I nee, I guess Salfororganizations w who have had perpetualizing. They would need tochange. They will need to adopt. They would need to offer you know a menu ofof optons to their customers, who you know, may want to be able to purchaselike you can with a Sass organization name. So I think there's a lot ofinstant tines to come for some of those bigger organizations. WHYL EIYER- andit's been a pleasure- we're coming up on time here so huge pleasure to haveyou love Ireland and what's the crack saying amazing by the way, telt CRA. Isee huge pleasure to get your perspective here on sales. As you know, yyou've done inin multiple organization, so appreciate your time. Adrian anything you want toleave the audience with before we had out today. I just I would just say you know issays leaders where we're garagins of the human capital engen right. That'sour job right, we've got great human capital in our companies, and our jobis to Guar on andt. Try to develop it. So that's where that's where successcomes from. It comes from the people that you've got in your teams, not fromanything else that we do absolutely and who are three other upcoming or alreadygreat sales leaders that we should all keep an eye on. Besides Yourself, ohwell, you've you've got me here now and would say wetl one or two fine as well. You don'tneed O do well. I follow Jason Lipkin, quite a lot,just o nil hat those guys are going. I guess it's companywise I like to I liketo look at the legs of Asana and people that are, you know somewhat in our ownindustry and hen who the says eaters in there E. I could not tell it, but yeah look. There's some fantasticcompanies over the MINTE. It's just an amazing industry. I think for Asale tobe in an en we're really really lucky and I think Yos Great Opportunity First a going forward. It's it's a fantastic situation in that we're. Innow, hopefully, Covin goes where very quickly and we can kind of get back towhat we were doing: Pre covid but ay yeah. I think once we once we get thatsor today, weve, we havea really really strong gray future all right. Well, youheard it everyone and thank you, your Oom, so much for your time and if youall have any questions Adrian Lengkdin and he'll be at team work, I'm sure youcan get a hold of then their first name. Last initial or something like thatright in right, all right, absolutely all right have a good one everone!Thank you. This was another episode of the sales engagement, podcast join usat sales, engagementcom for new episodes, resources and the book onsales. Engagement now available on Amazon, Barns and noble or whereverbooks are sold to get the most out of your sales engagement strategy, makesure to check out outrage. The leading sales engage with platform. So you onthe next episode.

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