The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

Show Me the Money!: A Journey Through the Sales Cycle


Is there a more iconic line than Jerry McGuire screaming into the telephone:


For every sales organization out there, for as much as we talk about culture and charisma, at the end of the day, our aim is to close deals for our company, and to get those customers to show us the proverbial money.

Which is why on this episode of the Sales Engagement podcast, we sat down with Oyin Bamgbose, VP of Sales at Infinity, for a conversation all about the sales cycle, and more specifically, understanding the target addressable market.

Some things we talked about:

  • The sales cycle as a whole
  • Understanding the target addressable market
  • Creating a culture around closing deals quickly
  • The challenges of getting everybody on the same page
  • The biggest time waster when it comes to the target addressable market 

For more engaging sales conversations, subscribe to The Sales Engagement Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

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Welcome to the sales engagement podcast. This podcast is brought you by outreach, the leading sales engagement platform, and they just launched outreach on outreach, the place to learn how outreach well does outreach? Learn how the team follows up with every lead in record time after virtual events and turns them into revenue. You can also see how outreach runs account based plays, manages reps and so much more using their own sales engagement platform. Everything is backed by data pulled from outreach processes and customer base. When you're done, you'll be able to do it as good as they do. Head to outreach Doo on outreach to see what they have going on. Now let's get into today's episode. Good morning all, welcome to the sales engagement podcast. You have your host today, Caitlin Kelly, senior manager Business Development here at outreach for the MMEA region, also cofounder of scrs and anonymous. For today's episode we are going to dive into the sales cycle and really understanding the belief system around Soho, me the money. How do you address the target adjustable market? How do you create the beliefs within your team and really create a culture around understanding where you need to go to close those deals quickly. And for today's guests, we have oh yen Bambosha with infinity, who runs the sales team over there. Oh Yeah, I'M gonna hand it over to you to introduce yourself, and that's a little bit about your career path. Yeah, thank you very much, Caitlyn. Glad to be here, really excited to have this conversation. Yes, so I'm vicepreads in the sales at infinity. We are a call intelligence platform and I basically began my sales career actually as an str on the seventh of April two thousand and fifteen. I'll never forget we're talking was six years ago, forever etched in my memory. Yeah, I still, I...

...actually still today think it's the best entry point into sales. You know, you have to learn the art of prospecting, and especially code prospecting. So I learned so much in that role and then, of course, I did that successfully and then I got offered a different challenge as a channel sales rep, basically managing a part of digital, you know, marketing agencies who resold our software. Then I went into the direct sales team after that. Then the enterprise sales team after that and then eventually and a put opportunity to lead the team as head of sales at my former company, response tap. And for me personally, I've got such a passion for sales, you know, wanting to learn it also get in as much as I can. And then I then got an opportunity to build a sales operations function at a different company and I took it. You know, a matter of fact, actually the sill, I guess, in the sales ups roll and the str roll so far, anyway, my career so far, those are my two favorite positions in sales. This is a two positions where I learned so much about the discipline. And then, of course, that in brings me to now, where I've got the privilege of leading the sales function here at infinity and so far to it's a lot of fun, fantastic. So you've kind of got to be in every arm of the sales cycle, from scar into the operation side now for Aline Mendin and really closing the deals, which is fantastic. So you see, you know, all the challenge is from every angle, essentially. Well, I try to. I believe I learned quite a bit along the way when say I know it all. But yeah, I've learned a lot along the way and of course having a different Lens and seen sales through very different lends in all of these different roles as given, I believe, a little bit more of a rounded view around sales and and how I would go about leading a sales function. So, you know, from head of sales right through to the VP of sales role like that arc, especially with the sales ups roll in between. Yeah, I learned quite a bit, especially around you know, strategy processes, which is what you know operations... all about. Yeah, learn a lot. And of course in that operations roll I did quite a lot of sales enablemen as well some trade coaching sales staff, which again is just it's just been very valuable so far. So yeah, yeah, it's another another layer to the puzzle there, Crow, as you've made a transition in develop these different ones, is to really look at the sales cycle. We tart previous previously around under really understanding who that targeted addressable market is and it's trying that your team knows exactly who they're going out to after. So when you kind of stepped into this new rold's VP over at infinity, what would you say were some of the ways that you starting to implement this? How did you identify what that target addressaball market is to ensure that your team was focusing on the right accounts and prospects? Yeah, it's it's for me, it's very, very important to target addressable market. If the goal of a of a startup, scale up organization is to build a sustainable and repeatable way of generating revenue, then in my humble opinion, I believe one of the first task you need to complete, yeah, have running alongside the others, is understanding your target addressable market. You know, who do we add value to? You know where do we add value and what's the size of the prize? Hence, you know they show me the money, what's the size of the prize? And, generally speaking, last as a VP, you have a fiscal year target, right, and the first question you're probably asking itself as a sales leaders, how am I going to achieve target? And then you know, if you paint that picture in terms of your sales kickoff meeting, where you paint the vision of exactly how you know the team's going to achieve the number this year. What the vision is a nough star. And if all you're talking about is process and say, you know, a little bit of motivational speeches, which is usually enough, I think we will make it even more compelling is layering on top of that the side as of the prizes we discussed. Yeah, but also kind of like how we're going to wrap ourselves and marketing resource around the... addressable market to extract the required revenue in the required time front. I really do think that's important. Ultimately, I guess my job is into well, for many sales leaders they might feel like their job is to manage the number, and there's an aspect of that, but I really don't believe that. That's just my view. I don't believe our job is to manage the number, to lead that team, manage their emotional state, you know, by providing them clarity process and giving them confidence. I truly believe right there is is where our job is, and I believe in this so strongly and and you know, and at the end of the fiscal year, you know, one of my key goals at the end of this fiscal year, one of my true key goals, is I want to have everyone in the team following our process and our way of working and as far as I'm concerned, number gets done. Yeah, you know, get everyone in the team following that fine process in the way which we work. I believe it gets done. So, without going into too much detail around how you construct the the target addressaball mark, I do think it's important, but if that's something you want me to go into in terms of just a little bit, in terms of how you construct that, I can do that as well. Yeah, yeah, you'd meagered something there that was like really interesting us. You know, your job isn't to actually manage the number. If you put your people first, how can I help them manage our emotions and provide them the clarity so they understand what they need to achieve? Exact think is huge when you kind of are doing that. What are some ways that you're able to either communicate or even inspire to get them to take ownership of that and kind of lead them in the direction? Is there a process that you deal with your leaders? Yeah, again, very good question. The different ways that there's so many elements to to do in that right it's your messaging has to be clear. One of the key things you got to provide a team is that clarity. Yeah, and the different forums in which you're going to pretty much I guess I articulate that that that message to the team. So straight away you want to put you your beat in your cadences, in, you know,...

...that weekly sales team meeting. That's one avenue. You've got you one to one meetings with the team. That's another avenue, and I think you should generally always have a weekly training session with the team, you know, like Wednesday morning would have incase will be. That's also over. So those three key meetings every week. You know, you got the SEALES team meetings, you're having the one too ones with the team and then you've got training session in those session. Those are avenues for you to consistently help them understand the value of their work, them understand, you know, the processes, which is key, and providing them clarity for how we do things and, you know, stay the course, follow the process and the rest takes care of itself, you know, as long as we're doing things properly. One of the Mantras we have in our team is winning ethically. Yeah, and there's a reason why it's winning, not when no one it's winning, because it's got to be consistent. Yeah, Keith doing that ethically. So as a SASS business, it's important that we're setting up customers for success as well. Yeah Right. So not just, you know, winning deals and and and just forgetting about is like will also send up the customer success for success or what all those success criteris that the customers looking to achieve from working with us and partner with the partner with us. If we can take that into the customer success team, we've done our job. So again, the team. It's building that ethos in the team. That's not just enough to win the deal. Yeah, you got to win the right deals and then set the customer for success as well. Yeah, that is that's in it. You talked about the ethels there. So you got you win in their ideal and then this other cust are up for success. That would didn't mean your partner with another arm of the company or when hundred success team what are when you're hurt, when you guys are kind of going through that process, how do you build that culture so that your success teams, in your sales teams are working in Tanda to intern of that customer journey is going all the way through the consistent I love that. It's a good quety. Again, you know, it's a process. We've talked about this and then sending that region making it clear. So one of the things we've been painting is that end to end customer journey. Yeah, from Mark Right through to str right, through to the sales team, to the onboarding team, to the well,...

...the customer experiencing which is on boarding, you know, and the CS team. So that end to end customer journey. What does our processes look like along the way? Right? So, to answer your specific question around sales and sex specifically, one of the key cogs in that wheel and the way which we align both teams is something called a customer success document. Okay. So basically what it is is when we do win an opportunity and we sell a deal, we have a customer success document that the sales guys complete and hand over to the CEX. On a kickoff coal where we're having that kickoff code with the customer. We hand over that customer success document to the CXEM on. The customers already aware of this right. It's got their success criterias in there over the first ninety days. We try to keep it just to the first ninety days. Initially because we're sales. You know what the new business added things we were not going to see the entire project. So again, just keeping it to ninety days gives cut success a nice little ninety day success criteria to follow on. And then once we, once they achieve all of that, they then set the next nineteen, the next Qbon, the next night and on and on it go, just to ensure that again, you know, the customers gain value from our solution and continued value as well, sustainable value. And of course, when it then comes time to should we say request in the case study, potentially we got all these success criteris to pick from. Is like which one of these we want to know put in the King Budy. But yeah, that's that's kind of like how it work. To the customer success document is key and a key glue to aligning sales and the CEX team. All right, amazing, and you'd so as you want to talk about all these processes that were implementing and you're making change within your company. What were some of the challenges that you identified earlier on? Okay, chat challenges would be. Obviously, change is always everyone's always, generally speaking, just adverse to change, even though changes one constant in life, right. So some of the challengers are just, I guess, getting some of the most season reps to take on these new processes and ways...

...of working, because one this season't too. They were already successful, you know, in the way that they were working previously. So why make a change, which is a very, very valid question. But then one of the so those are some of the challenges I face and the way in which you sort of alleviate that again is going back to that key point of just painting the picture, the North Star, making that as clear as possible and every and in those three forms we talked about, the one two ones, the weekly sells team meeting, the training sessions we had rain exactly why we're working in the way that we're going to be working moving forward. So I one of the key things I said to the most season sales reps is, look, I'm not here to teach you how to sell. Never not here to teach you how to sell, but I'm here to show you how to sell within this new framework, and that's part of you know, my role and my job to you guys are never going to teach out to say of course, no, no, but I'm here to show you how to sell within this new framework. So yeah, but of course that that has its own challenges and that's been fun. But so far, so good. Yeah, I think I think a lot of leaders can probably relate to that. Is there's, I say, any teaching. Are All down new tracks and they like part of the struggle is. Yeah, it's managing the change. Everyone wants to win at the end of the day and if you have a process that is working and getting the results, it's hard to understand it. But if you kind of talk him through the change and give them the clarity, the purpose behind it, maybe the why. Yeah, eventually, over time I'll be able to minimize that, the the roller coaster emotions all the way through. But yeah, I don't disagree. Don't disagree. And of course once you start seeing results from that new way of working as well, that also helps, kind of like adoption as well as okay, great, we see it, we get it. Yeah. So, given this episode is all about, you know, show me the money, how do we identify kind of the correct the correct processes to drive that addressable market to when? What would you say is the biggest time waster that a lot of salespeople do? That you need that, you're like, we need to get rid of this, that we focus on the right things and move forward. So... view on this is, so here's how I see it. There's only one time, or should we say there's only one, how I put it, part of the process or segment that's truly valuable in the sales process, throughout the sales process. Right. So, if we think about major time of minor time, you find a lot of your rep suspending major time of minor tasks. So doing the sales force Admin, of course it's going to be done. But doing the sales force Admin, the CRAMD man, creating proposals, creating the value prop all that sort of stuff. That needs to be done, definitely. But the one true major time that's most important is in the presence of the process spect. Yeah, in the presence of the prospect is the only that that is game time right there. Everything else is just it is the minor stuff, but in the presence of the prospect, that is the most important time. So making sure we're fully prepped. We know exactly what we want to get out of that meeting, what the prospect wants to get out of that meeting, and we map that clearly, cleanly in terms of how are we going to get from here to where we're trying to go, and mapping that nice and player so important. So for me, that's where you want to be spending a lot of your time is, you know, in the presence of the prospect. That's how you move the needle fold. Yeah, and in that time, during that time, you have to be effective, you know, and it can't wing it, which is another thing. I cannot stand that. Like, there's no wing in it. There's absolutely no winging, and you have to be clear, focused, no exactly what you want to get, understand the questions you want to ask, why you want to ask those questions, the message of trying to get across, why you want to get those messages across et setter, etcter, to ensure that in during that time with the prospect, it's extremely valuable and, you know, we were able to move the needle forward as well. Yeah, I'll I love that. You going in with a game plan. Make the most of the time, don't waste any second the presence is now. So I think I like what you also put that you mentioned there.

You know, you have major time and minor time. Where you focusing your tasks? Where you focusing the time? Think that's a lot of a pain point for a lot of people as they put a lot of time into the admin. There's the follow up and all the extras. Yeah, how would you kind of teach or lead your team to shift that mindset? Like major time is with the prospect in that part of moment? How do you kind of ship them even when you may hear you know, but I have all this admin stuff and you know, we got to redirect their energy to the being in the present. Yeah, so it's a part of it. Is what I don't like to do actually is micro manager because you can get into that realm that with this certain thing, you can get into the realm of micromiding. But one of the things, again, once you've got season sales rep, that I guess there are two types of reps. you got the corporate level reps you've got the enterprise. The enterprise level the way which you manage the time is completely different to the corporate level sales Rep. The corporate level seals. If my need a little bit more guidance and a little bit more structure to exactly how each day goes, fair enough, and the enterprise sales were potentially less. So haven't said that. I think again, in those forms that we talk about weekly sales team meeting, there the training sessions, in the one to ones, what you're helping them understand is exactly where they need to be, focusing the time based off of where they are in the sales cycle, where they are in terms of their journey, what they're trying to achieve and I guess focusing that time. How would I put it? I guess what I don't want to get into is is the realm of micromanaging, but just helping them understand that for every meeting we're going in. So when we've got the sales process right, we discovery, sage or Valey pup stage, your proposal stage, and so on and so for. For each one of those stages, the question is what how will we articulating our valley proposition into the customer during that stage in the sales process? So before we go into a meeting, what's our prep what do we want to get out of that call? How will we going to execute right? And that's where we start to spend a lot of our time. But again, of course, if you then need to build up your pipeline, you need to make time for that. You know, if you need to do some...

...of the Admin work, you need to make time for that. But again, it's just it doesn't take very long to do these things. But then again, if you have the right tools in place and the right processes in place, a lot of that Admin work can get automated as well. You're told, you know, outreach helps ultimate a huge amount of you know, should we say SDR task, and some of the sales tasks as well, when it comes to prospecting and even managing opportunities. You guys have automate a lot of that sort of guys aren't spending a lot of times than that ad so yeah, get in the right tools in place, for sure, but also, again, just focusing on I would always prioritize, you know, executing the meeting over you know, pretty much anything else. Just executing in those meetings is so important. The rest will definitely take care of it Tim I say so. I'm giving the here from your sales offs background. Yeah, deep into the data. You understand the data, the efficiencies. How do we optimize the team to get the results you want? Yeah, when you heard of a look at your career progression, what would you say are some of those key skills you'd mentioned? You know, Sdring? Yeah, the odds world, were your top two favorite roles you learned the most dead absolutely some of the key skills that you are like this is what I learned as musty are, and this is what I took from obs and carried you all the way through to the VP of sales for all. Yeah, it very interesting question. I would say, quite simply, it's process, for sure. Yeah, one number one is process. Is Understanding the true value actually of process. Yeah, that's that's number one, because you've got to say as a SELFE. You thing all, come on, it's a pro you win it, right, you just get on these calls. You know, I'm a good conversational list. I have a chat with the customer. They like me, people buy from people, right, they like me, are like them, and then they buy. It's like that, sort of like naivety. So the value of process was a huge part and that's something I learned. Something else I learned as well. was sales methodology, the difference between sales process and sales method or that was something I'd never quite got...

...a grasp of. Like what's the difference between Celles, processes method or say, is now something else I learned. And then learning the value of this in terms of leading people, you know, leading the sales organization, but then, fundamentally, in sales ups, connecting the sales organization with the rest of the organization, you know, with process and some of these turnkeys are like process is being able to connect sales with every other part of the every other department in the organization. Those are I would say those are the three key things I learned from str right through to sales ups. Process methodology, connecting the sales team with every other department the Organization. All right, that is that is great. There I would definitely say, just based on our conversation day, definitely tell their processes and finity that your team is following there and kind of backs a lot of the the methods and how you guys can run your business, which is great. It is clarity. How would you describe the difference between sales and in the methodology aspect that you just mentioned? which was giving you the two different like a sales process and sales methodology. If you take, for example, the Challenger sales methodology, right or winding by design sales methodology. For me, as far as I'm concerned, the sales methodology is basically, in essence, your communication language with the customer. Right, your methodology is how you communicate with the customers. If you take challenger as an example, you're leading with insight consistently. That's how you lead. You start of your conversations with insight. Hey, Mister customer, done the research, understand your space. This is what I under these are the big relevant change is happening in your space. That creates a little bit of urgency and makes us relevant to what's happening to you. Right, you know? So, Challenger, that is challenge. are leading with that sort of insight, where sales process are simply the steps you take in order to articulate your value proposition to the customers. Like that journey, that customer experience, that journey you take the customer on from start right the way through to finish.

That helps articulate your value proposition but also sets them up for success. So that's what your processes. But your methodology is mainly just your communication language with the customer, but also, again, I guess, how you set up your team as well. Part of that is the methodology. If you think about winding by design, would you know recommend sitting in pods, so you have a part of you know, a sales wrap and str a customer success manager and down boarding manager etc. Almost like a team, and that's a part. So when that's when that str books and meeting, they book a meeting for that sales rip in that part. Yeah, that's sales. Then you know, when they win an opportunity, passes through to the onboarding manager. That sound that put in the onboarding margin and passes through to the CS and that sound that part. So on that same part, that's one team and that's a almost like a new way of working. You know, generally speaking, you go into business, sales is on one end, marketings on the other, STRs on the other. Way, as were, winning by design, it's kind of like bringing those teams together and you're all sign a part and that that in itself is part of that methodology. And then the way we should communicate with the customer is influenced by that as well. So yeah, that I'd say. That's a key difference between the methodology in the process. Yeah, definitely. I love wanting my design. We've seen some of their work over here at outreach as well and implemented it. The Pot approach is super unique. I. Keeping everyone like in within the entire deal. How do they kind of work all in hand together rather than having siloed arms of the business there? Yeah, absolutely fantastic. How is it work for you guys? Winning by designer outreach? So they human spoke with US sad other archado event. So we're kind with going through the process, but we don't do pods quite yet. We're more so we're going. I'm being verticalized all the way through right. So, yeah, Oh, yeah, you're just you'd mentioned how, you know, part of the process is really not really managing the number but interning. All your teams are working in tandem togethering from the sales, so the marketing, into the odds and as you guys are kind of working out the your Tim Matrix. Can you walk me through what that really looks like for you over at Infinity? Yeah,...

...we will be here all day if I went into that, but without going into too much of the detail. I guess one of the key things is you want to definitely construct that time Matrix. So see it as a table of rows columns. You know, trying to visualize it, it's like on the rows you've got the different tiers based on the potential aarr or ACV, you know, of that account or the accounts, and then across the columns you've then got the sectors that you operating, right. And so for each tier, in each sector, you want to ascertain the number of vibral accounts and potential aarl. Right. So once you've got that view, then you can apply your inmarket metrics. So when I say in market metrics, what I'm referring to is like your conversion rate and your deal velocity. So time to close. You apply that to the result and that will tell you where you need to focus. You know number of accounts, potential are are. Apply you in market metrics to that and then you start to understand, okay, which tier, in which sector can we extract the required revenue in the required time frame? Right? So you know typically marketing and sales operations will come together to complete that work. But you know, as a sales leader will need to always provide them with guidance and and lead those efforts by defining the ideal customer profile, so you know those are product valuable for? What challenges are they facing? What the pain points from a graphic right? And then you also want to analyze your company's value proposition. So the best way to do that is your simple Swat analysis, right. So strength, weaknesses, opportunities and threats. Those analysis of your productor so, analysis of a price to or so analysis of your brand. And then, because of course, how you position these elements in your value proposition will vary depending on the ideal customer profile and the sector as well that you're selling into. So how you position your price, how you position your product, hype position the brand should be tailor to those ICEPS. And then after that you then craft your ideal personas from from all of that and you can argue, I guess,...

...that those four elements make up the Lee generation phase of kind of like your sustainable, predictable revenue machine. Right, you got the lead generation phase. That's the lead Gen phase, and then you go into the prospecting phase where you then craft the messaging and the playbooks for each of those personas. Yeah, and then to the final phase, which is your sales phase, where you know, you start to select the right processes, the methodology, depending on your product and your ICP Ete, and then you implement. So yeah, that's sounds simple. It's clearly not easy. You know some simple, but it's definitely not easy. But yeah, that's kind of like how to go a body without going into crazy amount of detail. Yeah, no, I love that. I love the idea of creating that Matrix there. So, like starts at the League and with the marketing team. How are they driving them in your outbound team then can carries that message all the way through and then also as you're pushing your personas all the way down, that that message doesn't change. Yes, and so it says there. I think. I know that. I've heard when speaking with other leaders. Sometimes I can be a gap in the messaging and all of a sudden is like, well, what I was just talking to this person about is completely different than what I'm getting what this person like. The lenses are a little different. So that's awesome. Yeah, so that and then, of course, that's so important to communicating that. No, start before right, because you don't want to just you want to go into those sort of meetings, in those sort of meetings with the team or with the business, where it's kind of it's also very clear where the money is, how what the operational plan is to extract that revenue in the required time frame, and then everything else feeds off of that. Right. How you structure the team feeds off of that. The messaging, as we talked about, feeds off of that and so on and so for the ICPs at such right, such release goes on. I think he all starts with that. Having that, being able to just see the money for yeah, perfect. Thanks for sharing that. That means said. Oh, and thank you so much for training all the insight. Sane kind of walking us through. You know, the sales believes. How do you dress your target turn it all addressable market? Are you kind of creating...

...that to within your team all the way through to make sure that everyone's working together and in tandem? If there was one a book or one area that had it an influence on your core development outside of your roles that you've had, what would be that book that you would recommend, or could be a podcast to the listeners? Oh my God, when you speaking of it can be one book. I'm sorry coming but it caught. It come be one if I had to distill it down to one book, that is such a hard question. That's such a hard question because there's so many that have influenced me. I mean, you know, you talk about Robert Green's mastering, oh my God, big influence. They'll connegie's how to win friends and influence people, which is a standard on you know. I mean if your sales leading not got that, you got to have that reach. That Poor Dad, I thought was extremely valuable for me. Thinking grow rich by Napoleon Hill. Yeah, but if I had to actually not that. I think about if I had to just distill it down to one book that encapsulates the whole idea. What what it's all about? It's not actually a sales book. It's it's the alchemist by Polo Coello. Yeah, I would say it. I would, I would. I'd say it was Polo Colas the alchemist, because I truly believe that. I know, with the Alchemist, I truly believe that. You know, there's there's the small, small phrase sentence in there if you truly want something. Yeah, right, the universal conspire it to helping you achieve it. I believe that. I love that and so for me I would defid to distill it down to one book. You will be Polo Coilos, the alchemist. Unbelievable Book, profound effect on my life. Yeah, all right, fantastic. Well, thank you for charing. I definitely Richard Port at. I actually just read that one this year and that was a good, good shift of mindset on the back end of that, massive shifting. Honestly, like you, just it's like the Matrix.

You just start to see the world very different. Work you like holy molding. I've been looking at this whole thing wrong, but yeah, that thought that book was. It's an amazing book, actually, Kiasuki's work. Fantastic. All right. Well, thank you so much going. You guys heard it here. First the alchemist get the bug, read the bug. Big Impacts and thank you so much for joining for today's episode. I appreciate Kalyn. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much. This was another episode of the sales engagement podcast. To help this get in front of more eyes and ears, please leave us a shining five star review. Join US at sales engagementcom for new episodes. Resources in the book on sales engagement. To get the most out of your sales engagement strategy, make sure to check out outreach. That ioh, the leading sales engagement platform. See you on the next episode.

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