The Sales Engagement Podcast
The Sales Engagement Podcast

Episode · 3 years ago

5 Hacks to Turn Your LinkedIn Profile Into a Selling Machine w/ Jake Dunlap

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Jake Dunlap, CEO of Skaled, is today’s guest on The Sales Engagement podcast. Jake is a sales wizard with a phenomenal track record of growth and shared with us his best tips for creating a LinkedIn profile that sells. Tune in!

Welcome to the sales engagement podcast. This podcast is brought to you by outreach dot ioh, the leading sales engagement platform helping companies, sellers and customer success engaged with buyers and customers in the modern sales era. Check out sales engagementcom for new episodes, resources and the book on sales engagement coming soon. Now let's get into today's episode. Max Asler here, vpa marketing at outreach, and I'm joined by Jake Dunlap, CEO scaled, and today we're talking about this is a sales engagement podcast, but it's really about how how our buyers like to engage. So, Jake, thanks for joining us and kick us off. Yeah, well, we'll. Thanks Max for having me. I'm excited to talk about this. Obviously, you know, we've obviously at scaled. You know we are big in the the sales engagement world. I started scaled about what five years ago, almost six years ago now, really with this concept that sales as a discipline is really evolving quickly. Then I saw it firsthand, you know, as a VP of sales at glass door. Had come up in sales and you know, they're early, mid two thousands and the trend that I saw is that vpiece of sales, sales and marketing organizations just weren't getting the outside support that they needed. You know, they had consultant suld come in and tell them everything they're doing wrong and then kind of go away or they over hire and when in reality they needed some kind of like mix of both, you know, kind of tactical and strategic support. So, you know, my background is in the trenches. You know, I I've made tens of thousands of cold calls, probably ran thousands of sales meetings and, you know, really started scaled with this idea that we could come in and give both strategic and tactical support to sales organizations as they're scaling. And I think more and more why I'm excited for the topic today. More and more the work that we're doing is how do we combine modern processes with modern sales technologies, because, as you think about building the Sales Organization of the future, if you're not thinking about sales technology as a key component of that, along with your like beautiful excel hiring forecast that has like everyone hitting quote every month, you're missing a massive opportunity and it's why you know, we're seeing so many companies leverage these platforms to be able to drive one hundred x results in some cases. So I'm excited for the topic. It's something I'm passionate about and look forward. Did they get into it? Man, awesome. Yeah. So let's start off with the first topic here and something that we can tell from power userness, for like of a better word, of Linkedin. You've been on there all day talking about best practices of the sales we were doing it a really cool way where you're taking the videos, you're capturing them in front of your customers and prospects and your feed, you're educating people. So what is that by ecentric behavior that you're doing on linked in, and what are the things that people need to do with Linkedin to be more biocentric instead of just going to throw up the basic resume on there and, you know, like and commenting random stuff but not really having a strategy. Well, I think if it first of all, like kids, an effort, right, it's not like you know, it just kind of happens overnight, you know, and literally, I would say. I mean should I've only been active really for like five months and what I started to notice all the kind of get. I'll go back in history. When I started to notice is just a shift in by our behavior, meaning our marketing team. We would send and, you know, we would put together these like beautiful ebooks that would like. It would take so much time and like, you know, we'd go out and do surveys and like it was like great content, you know what I mean, and then you would look at the engagement of that content and you be like what did we just spend all this time on, you know, and that those kind of like late spring this year I started to just notice these trends more and more that, you know, people are starting to absorb content. You know, we already were doing that in our our personal lives. You know, you started to see the shift in linked in to where Linkedin is now more and more of a new site. It's like the active users, forty percent of those...

...people go there every single day, and so, you know, in our little be tob world, you know, linked into me is the greatest area of opportunity that we have to really optimize our you know, outreach or even sales engagement performance, because for the longest time linkedin has been a recruitment site. And so if you go and look at every single sale as leaders and been sorry, sales leaders, it starts with you. Your profile talks about how what a great sales leader you are, your global experience. Like Dude, you sell into Iot. Do you think the director of operations at Iot wants to buy from the SVP of global sales who builds award winning sales teams, or from the person who's has more industry knowledge, who knows IOT inside and out, who can help to connect me, as a director of Iot at honey well, with the people at be a systems or wherever it is. So I think what's happened is, as we've started to use linkedin more and more as a part of our strategy, we haven't taken the time to take a step back and say, how are we presenting ourselves publicly whenever we're doing this outreach? So to me, it's literally the number one area of opportunity that every sales organization has, and it starts at the top, starts with the CEO. To is is to really capitalize on the trends in how buyers want to consume information and because we're all using linkedin now as a part of our strategy, how we're now engaging with people and how our sales organizations are engaging with people on on that platform in particular, but I know instagram and Facebook, I think, are important too. Yeah, I think especially for people who shall be to be, which are probably most of the people that are listening to this or watching this, but for people to sell me, to be your your people are on linked in, your networkers on linked in, your customers, are prospects for the most part, are there? I've got about twenty four, almost twenty five, zero followers now on linked in. That are all customers. Process. Extra people would help me get the word out there. These are people who can be influential, you know, to deals that were working and I was with Jim dickey from salesmastery. I think they were part of see CSO insights and which is now part of mill highland, so three, you know whatever it is like bundles there. But his survey was they surveyed buyers, decision makers and they said how do you like to buy and you know where you get your bioinformation from, and number one on the list was subject matter experts and number nine on the list with salespeople. So when you think about it, if you're out there and you're talking about some of these things and people are sharing your content, liking your content, they become influential to their networks. So if I write something of value and I work at outreach and then somebody finds that valuable, they like and share it, then their network sees it, then they come into my funnel. And that's what's interesting about linkedin right now that people aren't paying attention to and when you talk about creating like this biocentric action instead of just like your resume on there, just not having a strategy, I think it's just provide a ton of value. You get your network that loves that value to like, comment, interact with that value that providing, and then it opens that value share to their network, which then adds a larger funnel. Those people now follow you and then you get to now market to them and then when they like a comment and so on, so on. So you get this network effect and I think people don't really realize how it works. Well, I think we've have to kind of define value for people to because I'll tell you the other behavior that we that we looked at closely is what are people sharing, and what I see most people sharing is their own company propaganda about I want best places to work in Tuscaloosa. Do you think again, the director Biot cares that you want best place to work in Tuscaloosa? No, do you think they could care about your white paper, your Eboot, like, whatever it is? I know it's a VPA marketing. You know, it's tough to hear this, but yeah, the problem is to the value is. It's going to come from you man, and marketing departments have to catch up and they've got to start to arm their sales people, not with more company. You know, where the best where the back, like let's shout it from the rooftops. You know. Again, marking job is helped to, you know, drive awareness and top of the funnel. So we got to make sure we're arming our sales team with things that help to position them and to teach them how to be a thought leader. And...

...we've got to kind of let them go and let be okay with them kind of going out and taking their own little you know. Yep, you know, like look, if my territory, if I'm going to count executive and I've got the Pacific northwest I'm talking about IOTN's in Seattle. I'm talking about who are the industry leaders in Portland, you know, and I think that we don't take enough time. We take this kind of generic approach of just sharing company stuff, and I'm just telling you think don't do this. Isn't my opinion. Just go look at the data. You go look, go, look at CEO's who share and you will see. I mean talking about CEOS with you know, I saw Tony. You know, Tony was hirsh from Zappos. He did his share the other day and he shared something that they engagement was like really bad and and it's just because of people. They want to hear from you. It's the same thing on social media. They want those people are individuals. So I think when you think about giving value, it's truly giving value. It's like, look for you people that this is what's going to be the most valuable thing to my segment that I serve, and I think that we've got to start there, that understanding, like what is value your brand? It comes from the top. You know, if you have right we told our reps like just make sure the things you say you would be okay with your buyer hearing, like, don't go out over it, like something bad about millennials or like the old guard, because you're going to have customers who are in one of those buckets. Like don't alienate your audience, you know, but be a thought leader and and I'm okay with being polarizing as long as you're not saying something completely stupid. Yeah, you know, we want everybody to have their own voice, that we want everybody to add value. We want everybody to on our team to feel like they can support, you know, the company goals by going out there and and continue to do this on Linkedin, and one of the things we did recently is, you know, we're trying to build this category of sales engagement and we're really building it from scratch. We've got a couple competitors in the space, which is what you need to build a category, that are doing the same thing, trying to continue to build this category with us. We've got the analysts that are talking about it, which is great. So one of the things we did on Linkedin was we had our banners created for the top of our linkedin pages that were all similar or all the same. Let's say our company, the leading sales engagement platform and you know, it's like top linkedin start ups. You know, cloud one hundred, you know, logos, stuff like that, and then we change everybody's taglines to something around, you know, what we were doing in the sales engagement space, so that everybody was on the same page. But the more these people share and like and these things come up, if you have that consistency, will you end up getting is it's almost like advertisement for free. Dude. That's exactly right. Like, I think marketings job is to support this. But look, if I go and meet with you know, calling Campbell or someone like, you know, Colin might have sleeves and tat like Tattoo Sleeves and like, dude, if that's it, that's Colin, and let Colin Be Colin. Man. Like, I think marketings job is always been to kind of like control the message and like you got a guide them message, but you got to let these people be themselves. You know, I think that's that's the opportunity were missing. Is, you know, Lynda Henderson, who loves cats, you know, or whatever it is. She shouldn't talk about that because, guess what, like certain people are going to love that and again to your point, like she's not going to vibe with some other people, find more of those people. So I think, you know, we're kind of in that flux period where marketing just so used to having that control and we're starting to realize like, maybe making my people just blanket, you know, these billboards like yeah, actually isn't getting the engagement that you want. People buy from people. I think there are like certain things you want to make sure are consistent with the brand, which are if I can put a banner on every one of my rest pages and an every time somebody clicks into an outreach person, they keep seeing that outreach the ago in the leading sales engagement platform. But their messages are different. Their messages are them and that's how they talk to you know, that's how they thought, that's how they provide value, that's how they interact. Then that's a win for me. I'm not trying to sit here and say like hey, you have to say this message because this is the message that we're saying. Is the only thing you could say across linked in. So I have that consistency with the branding of their like mini site, which is what your linkedin profiles, like your...

...personal mini site. Now it's pretty incredible how it's changed in the past like year, year and a half. You know, I think I had my best post head like a little over a million views and like sevenzero something likes on it, and that's amazing, like to be able to write something and get it out there that much like you think about a million people will view this thing. That's pretty incredible. And I had nothing to do with my company or what I was talking and I heard does my funnel, you know, those people coming now, they follow me now when I do post about my company, they see that. So you have to make sure you're mixing it up to it can't always be about the company, can't always be about promoting something. Sometimes it just has to be like hey, here's a funny thing that happened to me the other day and here something I learned from it. And you guys feel the same way, right. Yeah, I mean I think look, if you're a rap at a set, when you know sales engagement platform, you know it any kind. I don't care what the company is. Yeah, the message you're putting out, it needs to be about the people that you serve. Like I don't know why you if you look at you and again, I think the interest part two is you'r a hundred percent right. You have to start putting stuff out there again. You know, I had had like a social media person who kind of like managed, like would do like post random stupid like reshares and your one like to like three legs, and then, like the very first time I took it over, it was like massive. You know, we just signed a big deal with Linkedin and there's a lot of like really positive winds behind us, but I think people have got to realize, look, the reason I talk about sales is sale CEOS and svps of sales are who I talk to and who we serve every single day. If I had an Iot platform on a why I keep going dialtee, but like, if I had a whatever the hell it is, platform, I would guess what. I would completely stop talking about sales. My would only talk about that thing. I think that the issue that I see with a lot of sales people on Linkedin is they keep talking about their space and them, them, them, and I'm talking about sales engagement. Sales engagement dude. I'm a svp of sales at a four thousand person company. Dude, I'm thinking about much bigger picture things like are and are you putting out content that I'm like, oh, that's going to help me do my job, or you just pumping out, you know, sales engagement. Again, I believe that sales engagement is the most important thing that's happened to sales and and last like twenty years. So I believe it isn't probably one of the, if not the most, important category that we're seeing emerge. But I think salespeople have to get it. Have to just recalibrate a little bit. It's about is John Smith in Tuscal USA going to resonate with this message? Yeah, because I'm in his brain, you know, I'm thinking like he's thinking and I know what he wants to hear. You got to balance authenticity with with a strategy, and took for me, you know, I think of how I post some linked in as a sales process. So you know, if you try and close the deal on the first conversation, you're going to be on successful. So if you just go out there and like pitch sales engagement, you just really never going to build a brand. Do you go out there? Add value, add value, and value shows engagement, post and value. Add value, add value, something else were promoting. Then I think you had developed this really nice rhythm of okay, we're saying we're adding value, of building this funnel. We'll building, you know, our brand and we're allowed to talk about some of the things that we're doing in our day to day because it's part of our story, but it's not the whole story and you're not trying to close people, you know, on the on the first come. I mean, like if I'm a salesperson, like look, you talk to two to three people every single day. What if, at the end of that call, like Leou'd say again, I have a meeting with svp of, you know, retail operations from macy's, why not, at the end of that call, say hey, you know, Kara, look, I really enjoy the conversation. Would you be right if I shared a few of the notes, like about just highlights, and I can send that to you? How a time you? Would you care if I shared it on Linkedin? Why? What? Why aren't you doing this? So what gets one of eight out of ten people? You get the SVP and you just real quick. Hey, had a great chat with Karen Henderson, svp of retail operations at macy's. We talked about the future of retail operations and where everything's headed. More notes to come. Instant cred yeah, it credit. Then you hit up the SVP of operations of HMM, he or she comes to your profile and...

...they see you talking about your conversation with Karen. Boom. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, FARK asking people. It's a great strategy and it's biocentric. What about your profile? You know? So you know, we talked offline about making your profile by eucentric instead of just like some resume look alike. Your thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean again, you have to think about who the people are in these roles, right, and what are the things that they care about? And if you're confused and you don't know and your company doesn't provide very good buyer personas or whatever, you just start asking and you just get curious. Great, what is it? You know? What are the things you're tackling every day? So again, like, let's say, if I'm in the sales engagement space, and again I know I'm talking to you know svps of sales or, you know, directors of VP's of sales operations. You know, I'm going to talk about things like, you know, if it's a bigger company, I'm going to talk about productivity. How I am an expert in reproductivity. Forget sales engagement. That's just the vehicle that I used to get there. I'm the expert in Red Productivity, in efficiency and these other things. So I think it's just about leveling up. You know, we're kind of at that level to conversation and it's just what a sales engagement actually impact? How does it impact? Well, it increases efficiency and increases effectiveness. It early. At the end of the day, it creates happier workplace people. If I was selling sales engagement, I was reaching out to hr by and like, for some reason, I don't know why, I would be talking about employee engagement and retention. So I think the key is just understanding. How do you talk about the pain points that you solve and in your profile reflects. I look at your profile like this person is a pain killer. Yeah, you know, like not this person. Now they're explaining their company to me as opposed they're speaking my language. Look, I'm the that's VP of sales. I live in problem land, not in sales engagement land. This person gets it. They're gonna they're going to be treat me in a consultative manner where they're going to you know, almost you's got to be like a therapist right, like understand the root causes of their problems exactly, tribe and diagnosed and prescribe, you know, solutions, even if it's not your solution. They just need be able to trust that you're going to be somebody who could do that, versus just being a sales person who we don't want to talk to. People don't want to talk to shirtstal sales people that are like forcing things down their throat, and that's and that's most and I think, and just to touch on that for a second, their reason is I am just like you know, and whenever we work with the organization's we try to get everyone comfortable. Saying no is just as fine as a yes and something moving forward, but not. But I think that their reason, sales people have that rap and why that comes off is they try to make everyone the person. They try to make everyone the person and every situation the right situation. And that's it's not I don't care. I'm like, I'm agnostic, like, if you have a problem, great, let's continue to Convo. If you don't, didn't like, cool, let's wrap and catch up in a few months. Yeah, and I think that it's that attitude that sales people come off as always trying to be desperate and drive and they don't have that, they don't genuinely authentically have that other gear to where I just don't care. I mean, I'm just trying to evaluate your situation and try to give you like my like to your point value, value, value, and if there's something, they're cool. If not, then like keep reading my posts. Yeah, yeah, makes sense. So that kind of leads us into like, you know, changes in by our behaviors and in cater to like building that you know, relationship and before you establish the hard CTA. Are these things that you're thinking about it in terms of like templetizing so that this is something that you know you can train people on, our people can do, or is it something that you have to like a gut sense for? And I mean I feel like most things in life can be learned. You know, it just might take some people longer. Than others. So I think, yeah, I think you can quase eye templatize some of this. Mean a lot of the work. I mean we're working with twenty to thirty companies of any given time building out their go to market strategy and sales and gave and platform. So you know, we're trying all kinds of like weird stuff. She's like all kinds of weird stuff, man. I think, yeah, I think...

...you can temple time, I mean to some extent, and I'll just tell you, I'll give you some of the plays and some of the things that like we're like weird stuff, like we're working on that. I think it's different. You know, we definitely are starting to build more plays and because, again, I'd go and talk to Celsie, there's I'm like, look, from when you hit go on, you're on this sequence. About when does it usually do you get a spot? Well, it's usually about two weeks later or something like that, right, or week and a half or whatever it is into it. It's not like the first touch point typically. Well, if the first touch point traditionally is not like a really high wind, right, why not use that to just add value? So for the some cadence is, you know, and again this is also the importance of how you think about your you know, sequences is it's got to be regional specific. It's to my buyers to step one is, what platforms do they live on? Do they even live on Linkedin or do they live on instagrammed by selling to Russia and I can't even get on Linkedin. Like there's all these different things you need to think about, but I mean high level. If you're selling it to be to be a lot of our cadence is now we're thinking about connect with the person, comment on one of their posts, you know, and these are literally steps which step on, step two, step three, four, right on day four is might be comment reshare. You try to build some level of authenticity with that person to where then when I come in with the hook, when I maybe email you or call you, there's some familiarity there. But again, I mean I even like more and more the first email touch point being look, man, here's what's happening. If this is interesting, we can set up time. I'm going to send you a few more details and let's see what might be a fit. So we're using, I think, more and more what you traditionally call nurturing type of activities at the top of the funnel. And then we're doing some experiments to man, we're trying this like four touch points over forty eight hours cadence right now, where it's like value in the morning, value and theyternoon, value in the morning. What do you think did? Should we meet? Yeah, like like, like. So I think more and more we're trying to do is build credibility, because the noise ratio, man, on email, is just it that channels just getting pummeled, and so the channel cycle, so like phone gets palmmeled because phones working, and then it goes to email. Email gets pummel because emails working, then it goes to like Linkedin, living in working. Eventually Linkedin, I'll get saturated. I'll go back to direct mail, you know, and then it just cycles through and there's n in between that are like personalized video through email or linkedin. The exactly, dude? I don't I don't care. I don't care. The only reason I'm even talking about linkedin he's it's what's important today. I love Linkedin, cold calls, emails. I don't care. You know, I had a my Bi had to post a couple weeks ago that we had a few hundred thousand views and like five hundred likes and a bunch of like hundreds of comments, and it was about cold calling. And if some you know people talking about I'm like, guys, the reason I'm calling out cold calling is nobody's doing it right now. And so if, and I know people have their phone, I'm like look, Dude, if nobody's doing it, maybe I'm going to pick up the phone now, but then again, if somebody starts doing it and a year from now, I'm going to say the exact opposite. Yeah, it's whatever's working for you now, it's probably our texting off texting is going to work. I definitely. I look, I love texting in the middle funnel, you know, like once you get that permission, I think you know to me, like that's kind of a again out. This isn't data, but it's got. If you're texting with a buyer, that's good, you know, like that's that's enough purport for them to respond to you in it and and their response is not with Helly. But don't be soft. I'll tell you that. The flip side of texting, though, and I've seen this in sales organizations is instead, now, guess what? Now they just hide. Yeah, it's like, okay, John, can we meet? It's like not, Dude. There's times when you need to pick up the phone and have a difficult conversation. So you can't use it to hide. But it's a part of your repertoire. You know, it's just about whatever it's going to work for your business. I like texting to confirm the meeting and I like texting to maybe at the end of the month and the docu signs been out for two, three days and you're like, he is not a month, but at that point you've already bought that report. And then the prior one. It's like you're not you're not texting to bother them, you're texting to make sure that the calls going to be on in thirty minutes or whatever it is exactly. I like that in the process, I mean there's almost two different omnichannel approaches. It's like one to build the report, so that's like connecting on Linkedin, connecting on twitter, like in commenting, adding value, and then there's the other one,...

...which is your outreach, which is probably I'm going to make a phone call, lead of voice mail, right, an email then like allude to that voice mail in the email. Then, you know, I'll go back to my nurture stuff and add more value on Linkedin and then I'm going to send something via direct mail or, you know, a personalize video or something like that. So I really think we're in that the era of there's so much noise and it's a great economy, so everybody's selling something right, so there's so many companies out there now. They're pretty sophisticated because they're all vent your back startups, and so you gotta find ways to work different channels and work a lot of the channels at the same time so that you're you're doing call, email, linkedin, text, everything, so that you're surrounding, you know, the accounts. If you're just emailing, you're just calling, you're going to have such a lowership, you know, chance to success. Hundred percent managuration. That's out. Yeah, a hundred and I think that that's, you know, Max candidly, like, I think that's the scary part that I see for for VP's of sales and even VP's of sales operations, as we look forward next year, two thousand, two thousand and twenty one the metrics that we judge early funnel performance. We got to kill them like it's got it like we can't. We're now using we're all agreeing that influence is a part of the process. Your metrics don't track influence. Therefore, we can't keep going back to calls and emails like again. But Hey, guess what in three years, I don't know, maybe there's influence. Things get, you know, get you know, saturated. But my point is I feel like look, if you look at a mini most most sales organizations and you go and look at how they're seeing, you know, if they have full cycle ae's, like how their early funnel metrics are tracked. If you go look at bedrs or Mrs or that STRs, you look at how their early funnel we're still doing the same stuff, dude. And so the problem is we are unintentionally handicapping our team from being able to even think about how to run these more complex plays and we just keep going back to what we know. We keep going back to what Aaron Ross told us to do, which is like ex activities xmqls x sqls, equal deals, you know, and it's dead, it's over, because the top of the funnel, the air and Ross, predictable revenue does not account for influence, and influence is a big part of this. Now linkedin is not direct response, it's influence, and so we have to start to change the metrics and I think a lot of sales operations and senior sales waters are really struggling with this and it's why I think they struggle to really adopt sales engagement tools to the next level where they need to be. They'll all get there because the markets going to drag them there. Yeah, but it's a really scary thing. You know, we've got to start to think about, you know, meaningful connections, connects like this, first indicators of some type of contact now now that we're asking our teams to do things other than just calls and emails. Yeah, so we've got to realign. The KPI's sales leaders have got to wake up and realize, like man, we're doing things differently. It's okay for me to not use those same traditional, you know, metrics. Yeah, I agree. Well, thanks for the conversation today, jake, and and everybody. Make sure you check out scaled if you're looking to building out of sales engagement platform. We've been building out sales teams. He does a lot of great work on kind of Implementation Best Practices. You do like, you know, sequence writing, all sorts of stuff, right. WHAT'S THE GIST? Yeah, sure. So our clients and they really have two very distinct tears. We kind see your kind of in that first stage of growth. Maybe you're going from five to your first thirty, you know, sales reps or people in your sales or and you're trying to figure out where the right things I should be operationalizing to scale, or you're a much larger organization that might have hundreds of thousands of reps and you're really trying to think about how do I amplify the performance or make, you know, my people those lives easier or more effective. So we are consulting firm and you really we specialize in strategy work around go to market, sales process and account growth. And then you mentioned some of the other things, which our creative services around content, copywriting and then technical services. So we've really evolved and again we're walking the walk. You know, we are building out more and more of our technical services on the back of understanding that the future of how you build a modern sales organization is is technology. So absolutely, if you're if look,...

...if you want to get at me, it's jaked on lap on Linkedin. It's jake underscored, one lap underscore on instagram, always sharing content. You again scaled. You can check out scaled and all the content that we're pumping out on Linkedin as well too. And again, you know, if you ever have questions, look, we love to just we're happy to give you our two cents, as you can tell. Yeah, well, we appreciate you in the market place here. Your content supervaluable and thanks for joining us. Awesome and all right, I appreciate it. Thanks, Max pitches in. All right, seemen. This was another episode of the sales engagement podcast. Join US at sales engagementcom for new episodes, resources and the book on sales engagement coming soon. To get the most out of your sales engagement strategy, make sure to check out outreach die Oh, the leading sales engagement platform. See you on the next episode.

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